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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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Niche wargaming firms I know they change their engine for faster map scrolling  and sometimes they do also unnecessary engine change, their games were already perfect only need more scenarios . I think better direction in here(FM) to do engine change if simulation script too complicated and if not adequate.  But it sells well it is good in the end. Generally I don't blame who governs but who votes. :)

Edited by baris28

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Messi has just 15 goals in all competitions :herman:

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45 minutes ago, Altair89 said:

 

Let's be honest here hope is minimal cause they launched a ME patch before the typical last one end feb/early march.

I ask to myself how many years i will have to play FM17. It's the first time in my life i skip 3 editions of this game that is too much time.

Your initial points are a fair opinion, but there's no need to have a jab at the dev staff. I've removed that comment, and if you could follow the rules about things like that in future, it'd be appreciated :thup:

 

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2 hours ago, LucasBR said:

Messi has just 15 goals in all competitions :herman:

 

To be fair, you are 15 years in to your save.... :lol:

Edited by janrzm

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Sometimes my two attacking players are pressing the opposition Gk, where he just passes to one of his CBs and that pressing was for nothing. And I don't even play with two strikers, just one striker. 

 

Weird is, that both players are attacking the GK, not one of them are atttacking space where he could pass it.

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8 hours ago, janrzm said:

 

To be fair, you are 15 years in to your save.... :lol:

Just second season....

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49 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

Sometimes my two attacking players are pressing the opposition Gk, where he just passes to one of his CBs and that pressing was for nothing. And I don't even play with two strikers, just one striker. 

 

Weird is, that both players are attacking the GK, not one of them are atttacking space where he could pass it.

I agree. Players grouping up and pressing the man and not the passing lanes is a glaring fault in the match engine all over the pitch. 

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I'm starting to find a weirdly large amount of goals which feature a deep cross and a winger running on to it, usually about 15 yards out on the angle and that header back across everyone is unstoppable, keepers cant seem to change direction.

headers from inside the 6 yard box... not so effective

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I hope they have some last ME updates in store for the winter Patch. The current ME is as people have said a bit boring with many goals scored from set pieces and I feel the game is a bit easier and too predictable right now.

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4 hours ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

 I last bought FM in 2011 and played it until 2018, solidly, so I am not new to the game. I had this years demo and after wading through all the new features and so on, I decided to get back into it. Now being a slider tactician from back then all this new style was a whole new learning curve for me. After many hours of tweaking I got to a point where I realised that there was a problem with the ME or I am just not "getting it" and then the Public Beta landed and I started over and got a decent-ish tactic working that won more than lost but was ultimately a bit dull with many of the flaws from the earlier versions. I persevered.

Then the latest patch arrived and I took my new found game knowledge and the improvements to the ME and set about either getting it to work or give up gracefully. Well here I am, I got it to work and I mean really work.

Plenty of variety in goals, through balls, crosses, intricate triangles and one two's, long shots, corners and yes, even hoof balls with one on one's. The goals I concede are also varied and instead of screaming at the ME I scream at my players and by that I am really screaming at myself for not protecting a two goal lead and trying to thrash the other team.

There are still things that frustrate and probably my main gripes would be some poor decisions by defenders to bang the ball into row z when easier options are available and also the poor decisions sometimes made in the very last part of an attack.

I do not have any game breaking situations in my save, my players cross the ball much better with new tactical tweaks, I do not concede from any set pieces in an unrealistic amount.

It took a lot of hours and tweaking and hair pulling and coffee and getting up and walking away but I am now really enjoying the game, for me there is a good engine in the code, there was a time when that was not the case and the criticism was just and fair.

I don't judge the whole game by anomalies, I except them for what they are, then, if situations repeat themselves I try to fix it through trial and error, but that is just my personal take on it.

Some good points, mate. Though for the sake of inspiration I would be really interested in seeing how you have set your team up. :-)

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@FrazT @HUNT3R @likesiamesefish
 

Thanks for the replies guys, fairing a lot better now! 
 

Does anyone else think the expectations are a bit annoying? I know they don’t impact much but I didn’t it really unrealistic. I’m in the first season with Celtic and I’ve just lost 3-2 away to Atletico Madrid in the CL group stages. Afterwards the reporters wee summary said he was expecting it to be a draw so the Celtic fans will be disappointed! My board are also using it as a negative, they’re disappointed by the result :seagull:

Edited by huntelaar19

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1 hour ago, huntelaar19 said:

@FrazT @HUNT3R @likesiamesefish
 

Thanks for the replies guys, fairing a lot better now! 
 

Does anyone else think the expectations are a bit annoying? I know they don’t impact much but I didn’t it really unrealistic. I’m in the first season with Celtic and I’ve just lost 3-2 away to Atletico Madrid in the CL group stages. Afterwards the reporters wee summary said he was expecting it to be a draw so the Celtic fans will be disappointed! My board are also using it as a negative, they’re disappointed by the result :seagull:

I got told off for a transfer deal the the chairman made. I am not sure how much of an impact it has behind the scenes (job security and all that) but sometimes maybe the board need to moan about something.

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3 hours ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

I got told off for a transfer deal the the chairman made. I am not sure how much of an impact it has behind the scenes (job security and all that) but sometimes maybe the board need to moan about something.

Yeah I guess it’s healthy to always have an ‘opportunity’ to improve on so I understand that. The media expecting Celtic to go to Atletico and get a result is a bit unrealistic. 
 

I’m getting a little worried about some realism with certain things, it’s December and I’ve just got a mail through to say that the board are increasing our transfer budget to £48.5m (worth noting I’m on a Celtic forum and this has happened with a couple of people) we’ll be lucky if we get £48.5m to spend over the next five years never mind in one season! 

My director of football has given me a few suggestions for the window opening in a few days...

Declan Rice - 70m-141m

Bukayo Saka - 67m-136m

Emile Smith Rowe 55m-111m

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I've also find that going with the attacking mentality will almost always lead to you conceding, regardless. I have it much more effective over the majority of my saves to play on balanced and if it's a game you expect to win, then play positive. Attacking seems to leave you way to open and always seem to concede far more opportunities, regardless in the difference of quality between you and the opposition.

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FM feels like it’s more about exploiting the match engine than actually creating real-life, realistic tactics.

If you observe all of the preset tactics or ones available for download or ones promoted on YouTube, they are all a total mess defensively with their positioning and bear no resemblance to real life tactics (particularly on the defensive side).

FM is currently very heavily skewed towards focussing on how players behave with the ball and it seems, at least that’s my feeling, that the defensive side of the game (and how realistic it is) is largely ignored.

All of this is a big turn-off for me and whenever I try to return to the game to give it another go, I inevitably end up quitting again, due to these issues.

I’ve played the game since the CM Italia 94/95 update days (and that is what I am reverting back to due to frustration with what I see on the FM pitch - it’s so bad I’d rather just view text commentary) so hopefully FM21 will be substantially different. Thanks.

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Honestly I am forty years into a career where I have pretty much played the preset gengen constantly and I've been successful, seen good football and had a blast. If people are really struggling with the ME, I would recommend just picking a tactic and sticking to it, then when your team becomes really familiar with it in time you will see much better football. I know that's not the perfect solution but for me this has been the case on the last few FMs, everything just looks a lot better when you get a really settled squad. If you want to test this out then I'm pretty sure with the official IGE you can max the familiarity out and see if it helps.

I definitely think this ME has had it's issues, mainly too many one on ones, too many missed CCCs, the annoying shots from tight angles, penalties being missed and now the fact there are an abundance of set piece goals but you can definitely see a reasonable representation of football and your tactical plans in game and tbf each patch has done a lot to mitigate the main concerns people had with the previous build.

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This match engine produces some really, really weird moments at times. 
 

Can anyone explain why my CM’s are higher up than my wide players? And why my wide players are so narrow? Practically looks like they’re marking each other. 
 

During this whole move, neither of my wide men make any attempt to get to the flanks and cover their WBs, who have complete freedom of the pitch and deliver a wicked cross, from which they score. It just looks so wrong. 
 

 

03B7AA56-6F15-4958-866F-AC672B08549F.thumb.jpeg.bf70ef9d00aa2d528868c0846df5920d.jpeg

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25 minutes ago, jc577 said:

This match engine produces some really, really weird moments at times. 
 

Can anyone explain why my CM’s are higher up than my wide players? And why my wide players are so narrow? Practically looks like they’re marking each other. 
 

During this whole move, neither of my wide men make any attempt to get to the flanks and cover their WBs, who have complete freedom of the pitch and deliver a wicked cross, from which they score. It just looks so wrong. 

It'd probably help for you to give screenshots of your formation, team instructions and any individual player instructions you have set. No one can tell you anything from a single screenshot from the middle of a match in a very particular circumstance.

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Note to anyone it may help, NEVER let your board negotiate a contract for your best player :(

Edouard in unbelievable form, numbers I’ve never ever been able to get out of a striker. I decide to offer him a contract to deter the eleven teams circling for him. He’s asking for a bit much but thankfully no release clause. He wants 60 board won’t let me go above 42. I decide to ask them to help out. They do. 
 

£18.5m release clause. 

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1 hour ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

It'd probably help for you to give screenshots of your formation, team instructions and any individual player instructions you have set. No one can tell you anything from a single screenshot from the middle of a match in a very particular circumstance.

I will posted official screenshots tomorrow but I doubt they will help to build a clearer picture. The screenshot was taken from the opposition’s goal kick; no team instructions should encourage this sort of behaviour, it’s just baffling. 
 

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Joan Jordan. midfielder from Sevilla that you probably never heard of, scores free kicks for me with Messi-like frequency. Free kicks around the box in general are being scored with a much higher frequency than you see IRL and generally by players that might score one a year IRL.

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3 hours ago, Al Zeer said:

Joan Jordan. midfielder from Sevilla that you probably never heard of, scores free kicks for me with Messi-like frequency. Free kicks around the box in general are being scored with a much higher frequency than you see IRL and generally by players that might score one a year IRL.

In my first season, Depay scored about 6-7 FK goals. Even my right FB with 14 FK scored 3 goals.

 

And that was from 30 yards freekicks.

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3 hours ago, Al Zeer said:

Joan Jordan. midfielder from Sevilla that you probably never heard of, scores free kicks for me with Messi-like frequency. Free kicks around the box in general are being scored with a much higher frequency than you see IRL and generally by players that might score one a year IRL.

I’ve got Digne taking mine (17). Scored 4 dfk last season and I scored 6 ifk’s.

Wish I knew how to get more ...

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I have a few players at my club who are dissatisfied with how the club is doing? I made 108m in profit, won the league, cup and super cup, lost twice all season all comps, so why would they be dissatisfied with how the club is doing?

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3 minutes ago, jbutton said:

I have a few players at my club who are dissatisfied with how the club is doing? I made 108m in profit, won the league, cup and super cup, lost twice all season all comps, so why would they be dissatisfied with how the club is doing?

What’s their role at the club?

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2 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

I’ve got Digne taking mine (17). Scored 4 dfk last season and I scored 6 ifk’s.

Wish I knew how to get more ...

Yeah, me too. 

7 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

In my first season, Depay scored about 6-7 FK goals. Even my right FB with 14 FK scored 3 goals.

 

And that was from 30 yards freekicks.

14 is not a bad rating for free kicks and in general I think attribute numbers are taken to literally in a lot of posts. 

If 1 is terrible and 20 is Rolanldo's and Messi' love child then 14 ain't bad is it?

7 hours ago, jc577 said:

This match engine produces some really, really weird moments at times. 
 

Can anyone explain why my CM’s are higher up than my wide players? And why my wide players are so narrow? Practically looks like they’re marking each other. 
 

During this whole move, neither of my wide men make any attempt to get to the flanks and cover their WBs, who have complete freedom of the pitch and deliver a wicked cross, from which they score. It just looks so wrong. 
 

 

 

The short answer is no, no one can explain a single screen shot with zero information attached to it. There are a multitude of reasons for any single player to be in a different place to where you think  they should be, are you pressing, losing attack minded, issued a shout, have player freedom on, player traits, player instructions and so on.

 

I

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14 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

What’s their role at the club?

19 year old breakthrough prospect, 24 year old goalkeeper - important player (plays every game) and 23 year old important player, plays roughly every game.

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On 16/02/2020 at 22:44, LucasBR said:

Messi has just 15 goals in all competitions :herman:

Always happens with him. The algorithms can't replicate his real life stats because they are "unreal" ironically. Also from what I've seen with Barcelona's AI they usually play him on the wing and the match engine again can't replicate goal scoring wingers. That's why with Liverpool for example Firmino will always outscore Mane and Salah. Makes you wonder what the point of player traits are 

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2 hours ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

The short answer is no, no one can explain a single screen shot with zero information attached to it. There are a multitude of reasons for any single player to be in a different place to where you think  they should be, are you pressing, losing attack minded, issued a shout, have player freedom on, player traits, player instructions and so on.

In all honesty I don't believe this to be true. The positioning of my players is during the opposition's goal kick i.e the ball has just gone out of play. The only instructions that should have a direct impact on this should be 'prevent short GK distribution' which wasn't used, and line of engagement settings. In any case, my CM's should never be higher up the pitch than my wide players, and my wide players shouldn't be so narrow. 

Anyway, here is the tactic:  

1030511436_brentford433.thumb.png.512f88f06874913de2d72f907b364d34.png

The front three have been asked to close down more, mark tighter & tackle harder. 

*When I increased the line of engagement, I removed these split-block instructions. 

*I've watched previous goal-kicks and the positioning is the same throughout the match.  

Notable changes to the tactic at this point in the match:

DLP --> Defend. 

Line of engagement --> Higher.

Width (In possession) fairly narrow.

Here's a clearer screenshot of the goal kick:

48913055_Weirdpositioningfromgoalkick.thumb.png.1858a57fa68cd7a1a15afe4f583c603c.png

Any thoughts? 

Edited by jc577

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3 minutes ago, lex311085 said:

Always happens with him. The algorithms can't replicate his real life stats because they are "unreal" ironically. Also from what I've seen with Barcelona's AI they usually play him on the wing and the match engine again can't replicate goal scoring wingers. That's why with Liverpool for example Firmino will always outscore Mane and Salah. Makes you wonder what the point of player traits are 

I don't believe on it, Gonçalo Guedes scored 27 goals in his first season, and 18 on the second season, Ferran Torres had a good season as well.

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5 minutes ago, jc577 said:

In all honesty I don't believe this to be true. The positioning of my players is during the opposition's goal kick i.e the ball has just gone out of play. The only instructions that should have a direct impact on this should be 'prevent short GK distribution' which wasn't used, and line of engagement settings. In any case, my CM's should never be higher up the pitch than my wide players, and my wide players shouldn't be so narrow. 

Anyway, here is the tactic:  

1030511436_brentford433.thumb.png.512f88f06874913de2d72f907b364d34.png

The front three have been asked to close down more, mark tighter & tackle harder. 

Notable changes to the tactic at this point in the match:

DLP --> Defend. 

Line of engagement --> Higher.

Width (In possession) fairly narrow.

Here's a clearer screenshot of the goal kick:

48913055_Weirdpositioningfromgoalkick.thumb.png.1858a57fa68cd7a1a15afe4f583c603c.png

Any thoughts? 

Does this happen regularly or only against teams that play 3 at the back and ridiculously wide wingbacks?

Mez’s and Car’s will sit wider and AP and IF will sit narrower by default also.

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1 minute ago, sidslayer said:

Does this happen regularly or only against teams that play 3 at the back and ridiculously wide wingbacks?

Mez’s and Car’s will sit wider and AP and IF will sit narrower by default also.

This is the first time that i've seen this behaviour. What you're saying is true, but those are in possession instructions, which shouldn't impact the behaviour from goal kicks. Also, if you look at the screenshot the CM's aren't really wider than the wide players (which is a problem in itself) but they're higher up the pitch. That's more concerning for me.

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1 minute ago, jc577 said:

This is the first time that i've seen this behaviour. What you're saying is true, but those are in possession instructions, which shouldn't impact the behaviour from goal kicks. Also, if you look at the screenshot the CM's aren't really wider than the wide players (which is a problem in itself) but they're higher up the pitch. That's more concerning for me.

Yeah, the higher up the pitch bit is odd but I think it’s linked to the formation your opponent is playing.

If this happens against all opposition then yeah, odd. But if only against this formation i could understand it.

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13 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

Yeah, the higher up the pitch bit is odd but I think it’s linked to the formation your opponent is playing.

If this happens against all opposition then yeah, odd. But if only against this formation i could understand it.

I don’t see how it makes any sense, regardless of formation. My wide players and centre-mids are practically marking each other, and my wide players do not once get back out to try and defend the flanks. 

The greatest danger of a 3412 is their WB’s, but we opt to just leave the flanks empty? Baffling.

Edited by jc577

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13 minutes ago, jc577 said:

I don’t see how it makes any sense, regardless of formation. My wide players and centre-mids are practically marking each other, and my wide players do not once get back out to try and defend the flanks. 

Exactly. 

Why should the opposition tactics or formation make your own players mark one another? Makes no sense. 

 

You dont see this irl EVER. Even if a team your facing is using 3 CBs and 2 WBs you dont see your CMs mark your own Wide men 😂 

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11 hours ago, likesiamesefish said:

Honestly I am forty years into a career where I have pretty much played the preset gengen constantly and I've been successful, seen good football and had a blast. If people are really struggling with the ME, I would recommend just picking a tactic and sticking to it, then when your team becomes really familiar with it in time you will see much better football. I know that's not the perfect solution but for me this has been the case on the last few FMs, everything just looks a lot better when you get a really settled squad. If you want to test this out then I'm pretty sure with the official IGE you can max the familiarity out and see if it helps.

I definitely think this ME has had it's issues, mainly too many one on ones, too many missed CCCs, the annoying shots from tight angles, penalties being missed and now the fact there are an abundance of set piece goals but you can definitely see a reasonable representation of football and your tactical plans in game and tbf each patch has done a lot to mitigate the main concerns people had with the previous build.

Gegen Press is largely OP in this ME, that's why you are winning, therefore enjoying, but that's not how everyone wants to play, and that's why there are a lot of complaints, that don't get solved by "sticking" to a tactic.

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59 minutes ago, lex311085 said:

Always happens with him. The algorithms can't replicate his real life stats because they are "unreal" ironically. Also from what I've seen with Barcelona's AI they usually play him on the wing and the match engine again can't replicate goal scoring wingers. That's why with Liverpool for example Firmino will always outscore Mane and Salah. Makes you wonder what the point of player traits are 

That's not true at all. 

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18 minutes ago, jc577 said:

The greatest danger of a 3412 is their WB’s, but we opt to just leave the flanks empty? Baffling.

If you want your players to man mark their wing backs then you can ask them to do so in their PI.

It looks to me like the AI is actually looking at your extremely narrow formation and pushing their wingbacks further wide to counter this. If you pushed all your players out wide they would probably exploit the gap you were leaving in the middle.

Anyway this is from a dead ball situation so I'm sure a few seconds after this screenshot was taken some of the closing down and marking you've got selected kicked in, just not on the unmarked wide players.

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image.thumb.png.43db16ad7bf7a2aa506a7bbc42ea8c5f.pngSecond season as West Ham. This is top scorers after 38 games. ( 20 goals 17 and 16 what??)  I never had so few goals in any fm edition

Edited by Bobek

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@bobek

Well there are plenty of goals being scored as Liverpool have a goal difference of 85 and once again this is a isolated case, my striker got 21 from 38 games but 43 from a total of 54 games last season.

Not sure what you are trying to prove, the strikers scored less, so what?

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13 minutes ago, likesiamesefish said:

If you want your players to man mark their wing backs then you can ask them to do so in their PI.

It looks to me like the AI is actually looking at your extremely narrow formation and pushing their wingbacks further wide to counter this. If you pushed all your players out wide they would probably exploit the gap you were leaving in the middle.

Anyway this is from a dead ball situation so I'm sure a few seconds after this screenshot was taken some of the closing down and marking you've got selected kicked in, just not on the unmarked wide players.

Extremely narrow formation? I play a 4141 DM WIDE. If I played a narrow formation such as a 4222 then this sort of positioning would be expected, but I’m not. 
 

The closing down and marking did not kick in after the goal kick was taken, as I mentioned before. Their wide players shouldn’t be unmarked as I’m playing with wide players myself, I don’t understand what’s so hard to grasp here. 

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6 minutes ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

@bobek

Well there are plenty of goals being scored as Liverpool have a goal difference of 85 and once again this is a isolated case, my striker got 21 from 38 games but 43 from a total of 54 games last season.

Not sure what you are trying to prove, the strikers scored less, so what?

So what?? Its huge problem.

I mean check the real life premier league top scorers from 1999/2000 and see the diffrence.

Strikers are useless now or there is some other problem .

What more Aguero scored 20 goals and 3 of them were from penalties, auba scored 2 and thuavin 1 from penalies.

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3 horas atrás, Old Joe Clarke disse:

Yeah, me too. 

14 is not a bad rating for free kicks and in general I think attribute numbers are taken to literally in a lot of posts. 

If 1 is terrible and 20 is Rolanldo's and Messi' love child then 14 ain't bad is it?

The short answer is no, no one can explain a single screen shot with zero information attached to it. There are a multitude of reasons for any single player to be in a different place to where you think  they should be, are you pressing, losing attack minded, issued a shout, have player freedom on, player traits, player instructions and so on.

 

I

If you dont know what he talking about it, you probably didnt test tactics enough on full mode view. Cause if you did, you will know that is common (the bad shape of pressure). In that case, you can reproduce making you 2 CM keep open instruction and your wingers/inside forwards on support duty. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Gegen Press is largely OP in this ME, that's why you are winning, therefore enjoying, but that's not how everyone wants to play, and that's why there are a lot of complaints, that don't get solved by "sticking" to a tactic.

My point wasn't just about winning or being successful, it was about seeing the team play much better football and enjoying my experience with the game. I noticed when I had a large turnover one summer my team were not creating as many big chances or playing such sexy football, but I accepted that this is because they are still getting used to each other and the club and over time it got back to normal. I've also seen the opposite where teams full of academy graduates will just destroy opponents. I don't just exclusively play a gegen btw, I have a slower tactic with a number 10 for breaking teams down as well as an ultra defensive tactic where I very rarely see a highlight for the opposition. The defensive tactic is basically the opposite of gegen so I don't think it's just a case of the ME only works if you play that way.

I think this part of the game is a little OP tbh, the familiarity / cohesion side of things, and could be why people are not seeing their tactical plans implemented as well as they want. That was the point of my post, to try and help others find a way to enjoy the game more if they're struggling with tactics. I'm definitely not dismissing any concerns people have with the game but if you haven't stuck with a tactic for a year or two (or tried my suggestion about the IGE) then I think it's a bit harsh to dismiss what I had to say.

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12 minutes ago, jc577 said:

Extremely narrow formation? I play a 4141 DM WIDE. If I played a narrow formation such as a 4222 then this sort of positioning would be expected, but I’m not. 

Their wide players shouldn’t be unmarked as I’m playing with wide players myself, I don’t understand what’s so hard to grasp here. 

Come on man, the word wide being in the name of the formation doesn't mean that there is a wide style of play it just means that they are in the AML and AMR positions rather than three AMCs...

Your formation is narrow because three of the four players that you are playing in wide positions you are asking to move in field.

If you think that because you have wide players and so do they, that when their wide players go all the way out and hug the line your players are supposed to follow them, then you should really be telling them to man mark them. You have players asked to play on the inside and close down as part of a front three and they're up against a back three so this is why they aren't stuck out there on the wing marking the player you'd like them to mark.

23 minutes ago, jc577 said:

The closing down and marking did not kick in after the goal kick was taken, as I mentioned before.

What did happen then? They didn't just stand there did they.

 

Don't get me wrong, they could move a little bit and not be stood so close to each other I guess, but you're not actually using the ME to it's full extent in order to try and get them to do what you want and I figured you posted your tactics to get some assistance.

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1 hour ago, Bobek said:

So what?? Its huge problem.

I mean check the real life premier league top scorers from 1999/2000 and see the diffrence.

Strikers are useless now or there is some other problem .

What more Aguero scored 20 goals and 3 of them were from penalties, auba scored 2 and thuavin 1 from penalies.

It probably is a bit on the low end, but if you check the average for top scorers in the PL since 2000 its 25,8 goals per season. The lowest season being 2008/2009 with Anelka on 19 goals. The highest being Salah on 32 2017/2018

Edited by Karnack

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