Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[bleventozturk]

8 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

If i will win the serie A with Udinese the First year (but also in the First 5 years), i will close FM and stopped to play It. 

I don't wanna say you don't have to be happy with this amazing result, but speaking for myself i would be happier to relegate than to win title with Udinese.

100% this. I don't see the point in playing, no matter how good the game is, if it provides absolutely no challenge. I hope this is not the case for the current state of the ME.

If you found an exploit tactic that is doing this, then it is fine. I stay away from those just to have a realistic challenge and experience with the game. But if everybody achieves such results, with all kinds of tactics, that means AI is significantly inferior in dealing with the ME, or SI intentionally made it easy so that people will win and stop moaning

Edited February 7, 2020 by bleventozturk

[CharlesJohnsson]

Is there anyway to roll back to the public beta?

[JordanMilly]

1 minute ago, CharlesJohnsson said:

Is there anyway to roll back to the public beta?

The public beta has also been updated to the newest patch - so unless you saved a back-up via Steam and set Steam to be offline only, no, there isn't.

[baris28]

1 saat önce, FlorianAlbert9 said:

No. Balls over the top are due to High defensive-line at all mentality

 

While in a real attacking mentality there should be a great number of players ahead the ball and not back.

 

There are still balls over top against high defensive line can result in goals with good dribbles. Yes which is good.

I think team mentality should be removed in next 2021 version game just as fluid setting in team instructions before. Less complicated to program AI= More challenging for the player. It is not pbem after all solo game.

 

Set pieces have still a bit higher chance to score and long shots. Headers much better but I hope it won't increase set piece score too much.

Edited February 7, 2020 by baris28

[rdbayly]

20 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

If i will win the serie A with Udinese the First year (but also in the First 5 years), i will close FM and stopped to play It. 

I don't wanna say you don't have to be happy with this amazing result, but speaking for myself i would be happier to relegate than to win title with Udinese.

The key question is, what is it about this combination of instructions that the the AI - with far superior players to SPAL - simply cannot cope with? As another user has replicated this success with an equally inferior Udinese team, it is logical to assume that the system itself is unbalancing the engine.

I notice that (yet again for the billionth time) the system in question is based on a modified gegenpress. I have grown to loathe this buzzword with a passion, and wish it never entered the FM vocabulary. In the main, since its introduction, the AI simply has had no answer to any combination of high d-line, high LOE + counter press football. It turns average players into supermen, despite them not possessing the core attributes to pull it off. 

Add into the mix the fact that there is no real penalty for deploying such a system for the entire 90 minutes of every single match. Low condition? Who cares. Fatigue? Who cares. Injuries? Play some other random squad member who will perform just as effectively in the system.

I would personally post this in the bugs forum for SI to investigate. If not, I don't see the point of it in the feedback thread, unless it's a crusade to receive praise or validation in some way.

If it's the latter, well done.

 

[babemocni1988]

40 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

If i will win the serie A with Udinese the First year (but also in the First 5 years), i will close FM and stopped to play It. 

I don't wanna say you don't have to be happy with this amazing result, but speaking for myself i would be happier to relegate than to win title with Udinese.

Hahha very funny

[bleventozturk]

29 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

The key question is, what is it about this combination of instructions that the the AI - with far superior players to SPAL - simply cannot cope with? As another user has replicated this success with an equally inferior Udinese team, it is logical to assume that the system itself is unbalancing the engine.

I notice that (yet again for the billionth time) the system in question is based on a modified gegenpress. I have grown to loathe this buzzword with a passion, and wish it never entered the FM vocabulary. In the main, since its introduction, the AI simply has had no answer to any combination of high d-line, high LOE + counter press football. It turns average players into supermen, despite them not possessing the core attributes to pull it off. 

Add into the mix the fact that there is no real penalty for deploying such a system for the entire 90 minutes of every single match. Low condition? Who cares. Fatigue? Who cares. Injuries? Play some other random squad member who will perform just as effectively in the system.

I would personally post this in the bugs forum for SI to investigate. If not, I don't see the point of it in the feedback thread, unless it's a crusade to receive praise or validation in some way.

If it's the latter, well done.

 

Is there even actually a penalty in condition/fatigue to begin with?? I don't see it. With every sprint that your attacking players perform, their conditioning should decrease noticeably. They should not be able to keep sprinting 90 minutes long, it is simply impossible even for world class athletes. I don't remember the numbers now, but I once read a scientific article that was talking about how many times a professional soccer player could sprint, for how long, etc. There is a natural limit to it of course, but I don't see any in the game. If you tell your team to press extremely urgent like that an entire first half, they should be dead by the time they come out of the locker room for the second half. In spurts, yes, but not continuously. Moreover, your players' condition drops at a very similar pace to the opponents', even though their players just play a slow tempo, and kick the ball long when pressured, and your players running like energizer bunnies all around the field. How is this justified?

And like you are saying, regardless of attributes, any player in the team can do that.

The last thing is the penalty of losing team shape. Some here disagree, but I don't see a significant penalty of that either. In 7 matches that I played with high LOE and high DL, urgent pressing, the opponent teams have yet to punish me, not even once. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by bleventozturk

[rdbayly]

13 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Is there even actually a penalty in condition/fatigue to begin with?? I don't see it. With every sprint that your attacking players perform, their conditioning should decrease noticeably. They should not be able to keep sprinting 90 minutes long, it is simply impossible even for world class athletes. I don't remember the numbers now, but I once read a scientific article that was talking about how many times a professional soccer player could sprint, for how long, etc. There is a natural limit to it of course, but I don't see any in the game. If you tell your team to press extremely urgent like that an entire first half, they should be dead by the time they come out of the locker room for the second half. In spurts, yes, but not continuously. Moreover, your players' condition drops at a very similar pace to the opponents', even though their players just play a slow tempo, and kick the ball long when pressured, and your players running like energizer bunnies all around the field. How is this justified?

And like you are saying, regardless of attributes, any player in the team can do that.

The last thing is the penalty of losing team shape. Some here disagree, but I don't see a significant penalty of that either. In 7 matches that I played with high LOE and high DL, urgent pressing, the opponent teams have yet to punish me, not even once. 

Hence why Klopp abandoned this principle after his first season in charge of Liverpool. His team was incredible in the first half of games; then lost countless points from winning positions in the latter stages of matches. 

That's why now, Liverpool operate in the main with a middle rather than a higher press. This is exemplified by the fact that he always plays 3 hard-working midfielders, who he constantly rotates to enable them to sustain this over the season.

FM was late to the party. No team deploys gegenpress for 90 minutes, anywhere in the world. It's a viable system in bursts (with the right players; who are in very short supply I might add). This is flat out missing from the game. Half the squad would be on the physio table if the system was based on any semblance of biological reality. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by rdbayly

[baris28]

25 dakika önce, rdbayly said:

The key question is, what is it about this combination of instructions that the the AI - with far superior players to SPAL - simply cannot cope with? 

 

I think Gary Grigsby War in the Pacific game is the greatest mankind achieved in strategy&simulation genre. But low on AI design and mostly for pbem. But apart from a bit low standard on ground combat simulation it has no problems very complicated game. So it seems football simulation should first solve gegenpress they should get tired. No AI script required?

[rdbayly]

10 minutes ago, baris28 said:

I think Gary Grigsby War in the Pacific game is the greatest mankind achieved in strategy&simulation genre. But low on AI design and mostly for pbem. But apart from a bit low standard on ground combat simulation it has no problems very complicated game. So it seems football simulation should first solve gegenpress they should get tired. No AI script required?

I think the issue isn't that the players don't get tired, because they do. The issue is there is no consequence or significant impact on performance for playing so aggressively for 90 mins. Visually, players are sprinting and closing down in an identical fashion whether its the 1st or the 90th minute.

As long as this is the case, we will continue to see tactic uploads on the Steam Workshop titled '100 games unbeaten CL winning tactic as the Dog & Duck'

[bleventozturk]

4 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I think the issue isn't that the players don't get tired, because they do. The issue is there is no consequence or significant impact on performance for playing so aggressively for 90 mins. Visually, players are sprinting and closing down in an identical fashion whether its the 1st or the 90th minute.

As long as this is the case, we will continue to see tactic uploads on the Steam Workshop titled '100 games unbeaten CL winning tactic as the Dog & Duck'

That's my point though. Even if the conditioning percentage that you see on the screen drops to 50ies, do you see the players slowing down? Do they run slower, or even refuse to sprint and press because they can't any more? They can still sprint and close down the same way they do at the first minute of the game.

Edited February 7, 2020 by bleventozturk

[rdbayly]

Just now, bleventozturk said:

That's my point though. Even if the conditioning percentage that you see on the screen drops to 50ies, do you see the players slowing down? Do they run slower, or even refusing to sprint and press because they can't any more? They can still sprint and close down the same way they do at the first minute of the game.

Short answer: No

Long answer: Nooooooooooo

[KUBI]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb rdbayly:

Short answer: No

Long answer: Nooooooooooo

This just reflects the reality.

You see a difference when managing in the lower leagues. Top players are nowadays capable to play 90 minutes on "full speed". A player that refuse to sprint or can't any more will be substituted. 

[Delvi]

I agree that this is an issue which makes tactics with lot of pressing overpowered, however it should be easy to fix it: it should be enough to make more dramatic the fatigue due to iperkinetic tactics and to increase the impact of fatigue on player's performance. It just requires a bit of tuning.

[Bobek]

I just finished playing some matches as Crystal Palace. 

I like how my team is playing when we are macking counter attack but I really think that defending in this ME is so hard. Like for 10 games played I had only one clean sheet.. my team is playing on cautios mentality counter attacking football. 

I think that pressing is not working corecttly. There is a lot of chances to win a ball by my players and they just get dribbled for no reason. ( even if they can just do a tackle or take a ball from opponent becouse he is literally 1 mm from him)

I think there is still problem with crosses and Right backs and left backs are running not covered. They have a lot of space and my defenders dont try to stop them from crossing

[thiagoanjo]

16 minutos atrás, KUBI disse:

This just reflects the reality.

You see a difference when managing in the lower leagues. Top players are nowadays capable to play 90 minutes on "full speed". A player that refuse to sprint or can't any more will be substituted. 

What? You are absolutely wrong, no player is capable to do it. No one, in the entire world in the entire history. Or they recover in the pitch slowing down between moments or they will be slowing down in half time, or they will thinking but the body will not responding properly technically. 

No team in the world plays full pression more than +-30min per game without stop, 15+- each time, then they alternate between passing and recover, doing some offensive high pression to time in time. 

And the players are covered many many times, they dont cameback running full speed always when they lose possession in advanced pitch positions

Edited February 7, 2020 by thiagoanjo

[KUBI]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb thiagoanjo:

What? You are absolutely wrong, no player is capable to do it. No one, in the entire world in the entire history. Or they recover in the pitch slowing down between moments or they will be slowing down in half time, or they will thinking but the body will not responding properly technically. 

Of course they are, not to run 90 minutes on full speed, but being fit enough for 90 minutes. They all need some breaks during a match and also some general slow down in tactics, but physically players are nowadays a lot fitter than 20 years ago.

[rdbayly]

23 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Top players are nowadays capable to play 90 minutes on "full speed".

Yet the game makes it entirely possible for bang average ones to also perform to this level.

[thiagoanjo]

9 minutos atrás, KUBI disse:

Of course they are, not to run 90 minutes on full speed, but being fit enough for 90 minutes. They all need some breaks during a match and also some general slow down in tactics, but physically players are nowadays a lot fitter than 20 years ago.

They are absolutely fitter than 20 years ago, but not a lil bit close FM shows nowadays. The players keeps sprint whenever they need, doesnt matter if they are with 99% or 55% stamina, or even if they just made a 70m sprint to offense, they will run back as fast they ran up to the field. 

That is not accurate and it makes possible you make some dog-duck tactics and using roles and duties where you can have all in atack openly and in the next second all behind the ball narrow closing all the gaps, 90min without any bad consequences 

Edited February 7, 2020 by thiagoanjo

[KUBI]

Gerade eben schrieb thiagoanjo:

They are absolutely fitter than 20 years agp, but not a lil bit close FM shows nowadays. The players keep sprint whenever they need doesnt matter if they are with 99% or 55% stamina, or even they just made a 70m sprint to offense, they will run back as fast they ran up to the field. 

That is not accurate and it makes possible you make some dog-duck tactics and using roles and duties where you can have all in atack openly and in the next second all behind the ball narrow closing all the gaps, 90min without any bad consequences 

It really depends on the attributes. I'm playing the game mainly in the lower leagues and there you see a difference. So this could be an attribute issue or how the game reflects the physical attributes during a match.

[rdbayly]

6 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

They are absolutely fitter than 20 years agp, but not a lil bit close FM shows nowadays. The players keep sprint whenever they need doesnt matter if they are with 99% or 55% stamina, or even they just made a 70m sprint to offense, they will run back as fast they ran up to the field. 

That is not accurate and it makes possible you make some dog-duck tactics and using roles and duties where you can have all in atack openly and in the next second all behind the ball narrow closing all the gaps, 90min without any bad consequences 

Feature request: If training or playing a gegenpress system, I'd like one of my coaches to approach me and say something like "Player x doesn't look like he can play at this intensity, in this system". At the same time, I'd like said player's tactical familiarity bar to be very low on 'pressing' and never rise (e.g. linked to his stamina, work rate and determination attributes).

Finally, if ignored, I'd like to see said player in matches fail to press and disrupt the shape of the team - leading to mistakes and goalscoring chances for the opposition.

This is the kind of visual feedback that is flat out missing from the game and needs to be there.

Edited February 7, 2020 by rdbayly

[thiagoanjo]

Agora, KUBI disse:

It really depends on the attributes. I'm playing the game mainly in the lower leagues and there you see a difference. So this could be an attribute issue or how the game reflects the physical attributes during a match.

Yes, the game doesnt reflect well the consequences of make a sprint. For example: you could make one sprint and make the second, the second one probably will be made with less intensity, and it will continuous decreasing sprint after sprint. The speed of the sprints cant be the same all the match and after other sprint, and after sprint his actions are affected, power of kick, quality of pass, etc... And sincerely, I dont see any differense between a player that made a sprint, a player that made 2 sprints, player that didn't do it and a player that made 10 sprints

[bleventozturk]

47 minutes ago, KUBI said:

This just reflects the reality.

You see a difference when managing in the lower leagues. Top players are nowadays capable to play 90 minutes on "full speed". A player that refuse to sprint or can't any more will be substituted. 

This is just so far from reality. There is no reason to speculate here, we all want this game to become more realistic. The article below basically says that the average number of sprint per match per player in Europa League was 11 +/- 5. This means 1 sprint every 8 minutes. Start a game in FM, full detail 90 minutes, choose the gegenpress tactic, and start counting the sprints. Your forward players will reach 11 sprints in a few minutes. 

Of course these numbers can change based on what you qualify as sprint. The standard used in this study was >= 24 km/h. Naturally based on the level of athletes this number will vary. This one was picked based on Europa League players. For lower league players probably somewhere around 20 km/h can be considered as a sprint, I don't know.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23168374

Abstract

The aim of the study was a detailed analysis of the sprinting activity of professional soccer players. The study involved 147 players who played in 10 matches of the 2008-09 and 2010-11 UEFA Europa League seasons. The number of performed sprints and total sprint distances covered by the players were examined using collected statistical material. Two types of sprints were distinguished based on their duration: S, short-duration sprint (below 5 seconds) and L, long-duration sprint (above 5 seconds). Additionally, sprints were classified according to their distance: 0-10, 10.1-20.0, and >20 m, respectively. The analysis of the sprinting activity of soccer players also involved their respective positions of play. The study was carried out using Amisco Pro (version. 1.0.2), one of the most comprehensive up-to-date computer systems for match analysis. The statistical analysis revealed that the mean total sprint distance covered by players (≥24 km·h) amounted to 237 ± 123 m. With regard to the position of play, the forwards covered the longest sprint distance (345 ± 129 m), that is, 9% longer than midfielders (313 ± 119 m) and over 100% longer than central midfielders (167 ± 87 m). The average number of sprints performed by the soccer players was 11.2 ± 5.3. It should also be emphasized that about 90% of sprints performed by professional soccer players were shorter than 5 seconds, whereas only 10% were longer than 5 seconds. Analysis of physical loads of soccer players during matches can be useful for individualization of training of soccer players' speed capabilities. It is an essential instrument of modern planning and application of training loads.

Edited February 7, 2020 by bleventozturk

[rdbayly]

2 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

Yes, the game doesnt reflect well the consequences of make a sprint. For example: you could make one sprint and make the second, the second one probably will be made with less intensity, and it will continuous decreasing sprint after sprint. The speed of the sprints cant be the same all the match and after other sprint, and after sprint his actions are affected, power of kick, quality of pass, etc... And sincerely, I dont see any differense between a player that made a sprint, a player that made 2 sprints, player that didn't do it and a player that made 10 sprints

A defence I often hear from those using a gegenpress tactic as a weak team is "Yeah, but my players can do it because the quality of the opposition is also poor"

Newsflash: a football pitch is has the same dimensions in league 2 as it has in the premier league. A player with the stamina of 8 should NOT be able to make the same amount of sprints (or cover the same yardage) as a player with the stamina of 20.

[likesiamesefish]

2 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

The public beta has also been updated to the newest patch - so unless you saved a back-up via Steam and set Steam to be offline only, no, there isn't.

It would be nice if in future we had the option of installing the patch from the end of the season when it impacts on the ME. Personally I just don't quit the game until the summer after the ME is released but you miss out on achievements when you're not on the right version.

[bleventozturk]

11 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

A defence I often hear from those using a gegenpress tactic as a weak team is "Yeah, but my players can do it because the quality of the opposition is also poor"

Newsflash: a football pitch is has the same dimensions in league 2 as it has in the premier league. A player with the stamina of 8 should NOT be able to make the same amount of sprints (or cover the same yardage) as a player with the stamina of 20.

This, and also a soccer players spends on an average 60 min per match either standing or walking, and that number only gets larger when you go down the leagues. Yes, you can stay fairly fit for 90 minutes, but not by continuously sprinting around, and that's a fact.

[Delvi]

I would like to add that the stamina and ability to press and run of a team, should reflect more the kind of training performed during the pre-season. There should be a trade off choosing a training more focused on the fitness than on tactic and technique and the shape and stamina of team should vary during season, as it is happening IRL.

[Freakiie]

When I did a fast single league loaded game just to test things I bumped into a completely knackered Benfica side at one point in Europe. Like, 9/10 of their field players being at 70% condition or less at match start. Did it matter? Not in the slightest! Their condition dropped to 50% and below and you'd think that at that point I would completely shred them, but nope, barely managed to etch out a 2-1 victory while already being the superior team (Since a 70% condition, 35 year old incredibly slow Vertonghen with something ridiculous as 4 pace/accel casually dribbled down my entire flank and my completely fit team was incapable of stopping that, before delivering a perfect cross). I also went to much higher pressing, getting stuck in, landing some hard tackles on completely knackered players and... well nothing happened. Return was the exact same story, barely edged out a victory, despite their team having just as bad condition the second time around.

Of course, with the way condition currently works, unless you completely screw things up you wouldn't even ever get to this point, since even going all out pressing for 90 minutes makes almost no difference from playing a super energy conserving style.

I don't know how condition in FM works, but it sure as hell isn't realistic in the slightest if you ask me.

[Sharkn20]

15 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

When I did a fast single league loaded game just to test things I bumped into a completely knackered Benfica side at one point in Europe. Like, 9/10 of their field players being at 70% condition or less at match start. Did it matter? Not in the slightest! Their condition dropped to 50% and below and you'd think that at that point I would completely shred them, but nope, barely managed to etch out a 2-1 victory while already being the superior team (Since a 70% condition, 35 year old incredibly slow Vertonghen with something ridiculous as 4 pace/accel casually dribbled down my entire flank and my completely fit team was incapable of stopping that, before delivering a perfect cross). I also went to much higher pressing, getting stuck in, landing some hard tackles on completely knackered players and... well nothing happened. Return was the exact same story, barely edged out a victory, despite their team having just as bad condition the second time around.

Of course, with the way condition currently works, unless you completely screw things up you wouldn't even ever get to this point, since even going all out pressing for 90 minutes makes almost no difference from playing a super energy conserving style.

I don't know how condition in FM works, but it sure as hell isn't realistic in the slightest if you ask me.

This happening is flat out wrong and should be improved.

[ajt]

Am enjoying the new ME but also the condition/sprint discussion. I think there needs to be a bigger distinction between how players perform as their condition diminishes and that they should get slower/more error prone etc as the game goes on.

I have a Colombian right back with 16 pace/accel and he always drops down the fastest condition wise as he is a wing back (attack) but looking at the lad you'd think he was roadrunner. I regularly spot him sprinting back flat out sub <70% after taking a corner in the 80th minute and it looks ridiculous, normally he even catches up with the opposition and beats them to my penalty area

[FrazT]

There is no issue with any discussion about condition etc, but please take it to a separate thread rather than clog up this thread- thanks

[Etebaer]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb FlorianAlbert9:

No. Balls over the top are due to High defensive-line at all mentality.

What FM call attacking mentality Is not attacking at all. At the contrary It resemble more the Attacking phase of italian catenaccio. In fact It become a very direct ball playing to the strikers that at the most he found himself alone 'cause the ball comes earlier than his teammates.

That means that you Lost ball, but you have your defenders in right position (cause they didn't have the time to go forward). 

In fact every time i played with attacking mentality Is very rare the ai succeded to play a counter.

 

While in a real attacking mentality there should be a great number of players ahead the ball and not back.

 

 

"Wait for Underlap" and "Work Ball into Box" do mitigate this issue...though not fully solving it.

I found that the former ME had to much Dribbling and solved it with the general "Dribble Less" instruction yet the patched ME seems to be made so to me that now neither enabling/disabling this instruction gives me the desired result of amount of Dribblings and "ball holding time" i want especially in the first and middle third of the playfield while they lack Dribbling attempts in the last third (that third close to the opponent Goal).

Ofc i have not played enough serious Matches yet to have a final cconclusion about this issue...

[Etebaer]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb bleventozturk:

This is just so far from reality. There is no reason to speculate here, we all want this game to become more realistic. The article below basically says that the average number of sprint per match per player in Europa League was 11 +/- 5. This means 1 sprint every 8 minutes. Start a game in FM, full detail 90 minutes, choose the gegenpress tactic, and start counting the sprints. Your forward players will reach 11 sprints in a few minutes. 

Of course these numbers can change based on what you qualify as sprint. The standard used in this study was >= 24 km/h. Naturally based on the level of athletes this number will vary. This one was picked based on Europa League players. For lower league players probably somewhere around 20 km/h can be considered as a sprint, I don't know.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23168374

Abstract

The aim of the study was a detailed analysis of the sprinting activity of professional soccer players. The study involved 147 players who played in 10 matches of the 2008-09 and 2010-11 UEFA Europa League seasons. The number of performed sprints and total sprint distances covered by the players were examined using collected statistical material. Two types of sprints were distinguished based on their duration: S, short-duration sprint (below 5 seconds) and L, long-duration sprint (above 5 seconds). Additionally, sprints were classified according to their distance: 0-10, 10.1-20.0, and >20 m, respectively. The analysis of the sprinting activity of soccer players also involved their respective positions of play. The study was carried out using Amisco Pro (version. 1.0.2), one of the most comprehensive up-to-date computer systems for match analysis. The statistical analysis revealed that the mean total sprint distance covered by players (≥24 km·h) amounted to 237 ± 123 m. With regard to the position of play, the forwards covered the longest sprint distance (345 ± 129 m), that is, 9% longer than midfielders (313 ± 119 m) and over 100% longer than central midfielders (167 ± 87 m). The average number of sprints performed by the soccer players was 11.2 ± 5.3. It should also be emphasized that about 90% of sprints performed by professional soccer players were shorter than 5 seconds, whereas only 10% were longer than 5 seconds. Analysis of physical loads of soccer players during matches can be useful for individualization of training of soccer players' speed capabilities. It is an essential instrument of modern planning and application of training loads.

The study is to old - i have no source but it is said for the Bundesliga that Sprints have massively increased in the past years as Football has become a game of a high number of high intensity Sprints throughout the game.

Okay i have a public link that Claims per game in the 1.Bundesliga per Team they are sprinting between 190 and 230 times:

https://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/1802/diashows/ranking-tempolaeufe/die-mannschaften-mit-den-meisten-sprints-pro-liga-spiel.html

[FrazT]

@Etebaer  Please read and abide by my post 2 above yours.

[SD]

AI managers will obsessively retrain every player to play the maximum number of positions the game will allow for him.

Any ST will be retrained to play all three of AM C/L/R, without fail. Any FB will be retrained to play WB/wide M/AM. Any DM/MC will be retrained as CB. Sergej Milinkovic-Savic often ends up being retrained both as a DM and CB, sometimes even ST. 

I can understand a mid-season cover situation due to bad luck with injuries or if a player has an attribute profile that is really suitable for a new position, but this is something that happens with an absurd frequency. Retraining players as anything more than emergency cover is something that happens very sparingly in real football once you get past developmental years.

Using Spurs, the team I follow closely, as an example, I can count on one hand the instances where in recent years a player was fully retrained to a new playing position - FM equivalent of accomplished or better. Dier from CB to DM comes to mind. Winks from MC to DM. Lucas Moura from AMR/L to ST. And we're talking about adding just one position. Meanwhile in FM, left in the hands of the AI, by the time a season or two passes someone like Harry Kane is invariably retrained to play at AM C/L/R.

FM19 suffered from the same issue, and looking at real world football a season and a half past game start, I can't see any of the retraining that in-game was happening with 100% frequency, save after save. I'm willing to bet that a season and a half from now we will see barely any of the retraining that right now in-game is happening with 100% frequency.

Not only this is incredibly unrealistic and immersion breaking, but because of the way positional rating interacts with CA, players close to their peak with often decline or at best stagnate in the hands of the AI. All else being equal, any player developed by the AI is almost always going to be worse than if he was developed by the human player, as if the AI wasn't already bad enough at player development.

Edited February 8, 2020 by SD

[Adelino]

Just a quick question, i was playing the open beta, now with the new patch, do i have to revert somehow back to the non-beta version?

[FrazT]

You can opt out of the beta the same way as you opted in.  The beta and the retail  game are now using the same ME, however

[rp1966]

The new ME dropped as I was entering my last run of games for the 2022/23 season (Blackburn; Championship; exp. mid-table).  That short run of games didn't give me the opportunity to see how the ME was performing in some of my specific areas of concern. but as a general impression there has been a significant step forward from me2031 to me2039.

What struck me most was that the way moves were breaking down felt a lot more realistic, something definitely helped by the fact that headed clearances now seem to get have some strength and distance to them. The other thing that is helping create a more realistic impression is that some of the player's nonsensical random behaviour seems to have gone away - so missed shots are looking like a missed shot attempt and not that the code has chosen an arbitrary random angle to make to ball fly away at.

I need to get into the next season and through the first 10 games to get a proper feel for the new ME, but cautiously optimistic at the moment.

[Eyreius]

Think the new ME is a massive improvement. It’s not perfect but not sure it ever can be. Acid test for me is that I’m actually enjoying playing the game again. Happy days!

[Guest]

ME on 20.2.4 : Definitely some improvements, but it is in a good way.

Happy about SI have listen users.

Hope 20.3 will fix small - minor bugs within the game.

[Tiger666]

3 minutes ago, Cadoni said:

Hope 20.3 will fix small - minor bugs within the game.

There's still a ton of non-match engine bugs that need fixing. I hope 20.3 addresses these.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

There's still a ton of non-match engine bugs that need fixing. I hope 20.3 addresses these.

Agree. I know that SI put much more efforts about ME; but really needs to focus in small details for 20.3

Edited February 8, 2020 by Guest

[Bakiano]

How to solve this?

[FrazT]

3 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

How to solve this?

Please do not just post a screenshot and have other users trying to work out what the issue is- take the time to explain it and you may get some help

[Bakiano]

5 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Please do not just post a screenshot and have other users trying to work out what the issue is- take the time to explain it and you may get some help

Hmm I thought it was clear. On some player kits, numbers are outside the kit.

[FrazT]

3 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

Hmm I thought it was clear. On some player kits, numbers are outside the kit.

Are you using any third party graphics or have changed the skin?

[LucasBR]

Hi @FrazT which sub-forum should I use to post a topic about my game always going back to full screen when I close it?

[FrazT]

The Technical and Crashes subforum of the main Fm 20 Bugs forum

[Scott Jackson]

Hello all, thought I'd pop in again with my thoughts on the new ME update. I will say in advance it's a long post that I know you all won't read and I appreciate that much of this is likely related to my tactics!

I've seen people say that it's made the game easier for them but for me it's mostly become more difficult! I've noticed that I don't get many balls over the top anymore which has also meant that I score less goals! I am seeing a comparable amount of shots/shots on target (which is high) as before but most of these are just 'game background' that I don't see in highlights. I'm seeing a lot less highlights in general since the update especially for goal chances.

My main tactic is a 4-2-3-1 (AM) and till now it's worked quite well, I did get a good advantage from my AM running through from deep onto balls forward and he scored most of my goals. My striker also contributed well with goals so in general we scored quite a bit! The update seems to have cured the balls over the top for the most part, I do still see them but in much more realistic situations, quick counters from a set piece or lost ball in the final third etc. For me this has meant that most play seems to bypass the attacking middle of the park, my AM doesn't get anywhere near as much ball as the play either moves over his head to the striker or out wide to the wingers who love to cut inside (regardless of what I tell them). This applies even when I focus play through the middle, my players don't seem to respond to instructions much!

I think the keepers do still make an awful lot of saves in 1on1 situations or my forwards with good finishing stats wiff chances pathetically wide too often. As a result of this my team isn't scoring as many goals, I'm seeing a lot of 1-0, 1-1 or 0-0 games (the defence is still pretty good thankfully!). To me (and I emphasise this is my anecdotal experience with my tactics) it looks like the balls over the top have been cut out but because the keepers still make saves of my forwards mess up chances the goals scored has been reduced dramatically and the problems people had complained about re AMs being useless (that I never saw) have appeared for me since the update.

Penalties are better now though, scored on a much more realistic level as previously I would score about 1 in 3! Also I've still never seen VAR give a different decision to the ref, never seen a penalty or offside overturned in either direction but maybe I've been hit by the RNG.

I don't think it's been a bad update but then I didn't have a huge problem with the previous ME! Hopefully I just need to fiddle my tactics a bit to adapt to the new ME a bit better!

As a bonus extra does anyone else see their teams line up in the wrong order in the pre match bumf? My captain is never at the front just somewhere in the middle of the line apart from when they walk out from a corner stadium tunnel.

[Tyburn]

Yeah. Still seeing VAR give the same results as the last ME. Every decision always the same. A pen shout? It’s a pen. Edge of the box shout? It’s a free kick. It’s really immersion breaking, boring and basically a pointless feature. 

I may have missed it, I’ve posted it in the bugs forum and didn’t get an answer, but has there been any acknowledgement from SI about this? It strikes me as a relatively simple thing to change, but perhaps not as it’s an issue that’s largely been ignored.