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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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Tried the new patch so far scored 8 goals 7 were from set plays and once was a long range screamer. Which is a concern still seems to be issues with the variety of goals 

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It seems that people here have two different updates: one with "Special Set Plays Goals" edition and the other is "Wanna-some-open-play-buddy?" 

Will try to check soon what edition I got :)

Edited by spiritdonkey

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OK.... so which one is it then?? useful partnership or a poor one :rolleyes:

 

2020-02-06.thumb.png.4a478575b0d1ef0732e7713f56efc870.png

Edited by Tangerine_Army

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This update seems to show a better variety of goals, and still playing as my team should. Not that I was that hacked off with ME pre-update, but hey. :) 

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39 minutes ago, Tangerine_Army said:

OK.... so which one is it then?? useful partnership or a poor one :rolleyes:

 

2020-02-06.thumb.png.4a478575b0d1ef0732e7713f56efc870.png

It is both.
Playing X player on this side and Y player on that side is currently worse , according to your coach, than Y player on this side and X player on that side; in the current set roles.

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46 minutes ago, Tangerine_Army said:

OK.... so which one is it then?? useful partnership or a poor one :rolleyes:

 

2020-02-06.thumb.png.4a478575b0d1ef0732e7713f56efc870.png

Looks like it could be a bug, or at the very least be clarified better - could you post here with a save game before the news generates please? Thanks.

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6 minutes ago, Glenn Wakeford said:

Looks like it could be a bug, or at the very least be clarified better - could you post here with a save game before the news generates please? Thanks.

if i have a save from before yes i shall do

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29 minutes ago, Jibby123 said:

This update seems to show a better variety of goals, and still playing as my team should. Not that I was that hacked off with ME pre-update, but hey. :) 

it wouldnt be the first game that had different versions released to the public under the same version number.

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Not match-engine related feedback: AI managers are going insane with changing the pitch dimensions in my save. If the "maximum pitch length/width" isn't restricted to the real-life maximum, you end up with almost square pitches... And frustratingly this can't be fixed with the in-game editor so I'd have to start a new save to avoid this.
image.thumb.png.2bf1c36eb1e1ba07fe77b2a8109767e9.png

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11 minutes ago, Steve8066 said:

it wouldnt be the first game that had different versions released to the public under the same version number.

If it's a different ME version, it's a different/updated ME. In this case, it's a ME that's seen a number of changes.

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1 minute ago, autohoratio said:

Not match-engine related feedback: AI managers are going insane with changing the pitch dimensions in my save. If the "maximum pitch length/width" isn't restricted to the real-life maximum, you end up with almost square pitches... And frustratingly this can't be fixed with the in-game editor so I'd have to start a new save to avoid this.
image.thumb.png.2bf1c36eb1e1ba07fe77b2a8109767e9.png

Surely this is an exception rather than the norm? Have come across a pitch like this a couple of times but not regularly enough to cause concern.

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Does anyone else find goalkeeper ratings to be very low this year?

I've seen my keeper pull off save after save and only get 6.7ish. I just had a report of a loan keeper playing in the cup against a side a level higher. He saved 8 of 9 shots and got 6.7.

I know there's more to a keeper than just saving shots, but it makes me think distribution must be awful to get 6.7 for a near 90% save rate.

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4 minutes ago, anagain said:

Does anyone else find goalkeeper ratings to be very low this year?

I've seen my keeper pull off save after save and only get 6.7ish. I just had a report of a loan keeper playing in the cup against a side a level higher. He saved 8 of 9 shots and got 6.7.

I know there's more to a keeper than just saving shots, but it makes me think distribution must be awful to get 6.7 for a near 90% save rate.

Yeah. I’m yet to get a goalie’s rating above a 7 for a season overall. Occasionally they’ll play above a 7, even more occasionally their form will be above a 7. But generally their ratings are below 6.8. In fact I use 6.8 as the new 7 for goalies :) 

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9 minutes ago, anagain said:

Does anyone else find goalkeeper ratings to be very low this year?

I've seen my keeper pull off save after save and only get 6.7ish. I just had a report of a loan keeper playing in the cup against a side a level higher. He saved 8 of 9 shots and got 6.7.

I know there's more to a keeper than just saving shots, but it makes me think distribution must be awful to get 6.7 for a near 90% save rate.

I find the same with Defensive / Ball Winning Midfielders too. They seem to be playing ok when you watch the game but there match ratings are around 6.6/6.7. Not the sexiest role, they very rarely score or assist I suppose though.

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18 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

Surely this is an exception rather than the norm? Have come across a pitch like this a couple of times but not regularly enough to cause concern.

1 in 5 AI managers in the Argentinian Second Division have gone for those wonky pitches, which is cause for concern. How often do you see real life managers making their pitch 15 metres wider and 15 metres shorter? Most stadia are only big enough to fit a 70m-wide pitch to begin with unless you want to demolish the grandstands.

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7 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

I find the same with Defensive / Ball Winning Midfielders too. They seem to be playing ok when you watch the game but there match ratings are around 6.6/6.7. Not the sexiest role, they very rarely score or assist I suppose though.

Unsung heroes. :D

Wijnaldum at Liverpool irl springs to mind? Vital cog that lets the sexy rest of them get the plaudits. 

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27 minutes ago, anagain said:

Does anyone else find goalkeeper ratings to be very low this year?

I've seen my keeper pull off save after save and only get 6.7ish. I just had a report of a loan keeper playing in the cup against a side a level higher. He saved 8 of 9 shots and got 6.7.

I know there's more to a keeper than just saving shots, but it makes me think distribution must be awful to get 6.7 for a near 90% save rate.

I've had this issue for a number of years myself. Doesn't bother me too much because it's just the keepers but it's been there a long time I think.

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19 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

I find the same with Defensive / Ball Winning Midfielders too. They seem to be playing ok when you watch the game but there match ratings are around 6.6/6.7. Not the sexiest role, they very rarely score or assist I suppose though.

I have noticed that ratings for that role have dropped off a bit with later patches. When the game first came out I was seeing great ratiings for my DMs.

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Perhaps a little bit out of pocket here, but I think the feedback on this forum would be far more effective if posters provided more context, as to better understand why they’re seeing certain patterns of play that other’s might not be. 
 

Having read through the responses since the ME update, there seems to be a 60:40 split (haven’t done the maths so don’t hold me to that) in favour of the update being positive, with an increase in the variety and occurrence of goals being scored.
 

Some posters may not be keen, but perhaps a new thread should be started whereby those who have seen the positive changes post screenshots of their tactics, as do those who are struggling, so that we and SI can gain a better insight into how the ME is performing. 
 

Obviously tactics are highly nuanced, influenced by your players, morale, dynamics, game state etc, but it would at least provide a basis for comparison, to see if basic principles are being followed and if there’s any correlation between that and one’s view of the ME. It’s not an exact science by any means, but certainly an interesting idea imo.

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Don't think we need a new thread as the ME we have now is the only one available but I agree with your main point about context.

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I’ve been a critic of the ME ever since release but credit where credit is due, I think this is the best ME since FM18.

Well done SI for all your continued hard work :thup:

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So far, so good with the new ME... I was getting really fed up with the old one, it was really hard to score goals, full stop. Plus the play itself seemed to be slow despite me trying to play a high tempo, pressing game, I said on another thread it felt like my players were wading through treacle. The game was getting so frustrating that I was close to giving up.

First few games on the new ME and it definitely has improved for me. Goals are starting to flow again, I'm seeing through balls for my forwards to run onto, plus some wing play and crosses. A fair balance of goals so far, from crosses, play through the middle and some set piece goals as well. Plus my strikers are scoring again!!

The biggest thing for me though is that my team are playing with a high tempo again, some quick transitions and nice swift moves into the final third.

I had one game where we completely outplayed the opposition but just couldn't score. Chance after chance spurned and we fell to a sucker punch, header from a free kick. Very annoying but these things do happen from time to time, in the previous ME it seemed to be happening all the time though and was driving me to distraction.

In summary the game has got its fun back for me, I know it is early days but fingers crossed we are back on track. So a big thanks to the SI devs who have been working hard to make things better.

 

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The awful control the ball and overrun it by 5m is still there, which is hugely irritating. This is not a rare thing either, you see it almost any time a player has to control the ball near the side line. This does happen, but not all the time and not in situations where the ball is going out for your own set play. I hope this is finally patched soon.

The CM(A) position now seems like it does not actually attack very much. This is from a very small sample size, but the player is standing much deeper all the time. Looks like a CM(S) in terms of behaviour. Not making forward runs to overlap a supporting striker who is receiving the ball. I will keep my eye on this and report it as a bug if I see this behaviour all the time, because what I have seen thus far is not the correct behaviour. Central play is still not ideal. Although on a positive note a DLF(S) is now very involved in the build up again, so we are half way there. 

Defending in wide areas now feels weird as well. I find that wingers are extremely passive in defence. They are not trying to help out at all unless you give them explicit instructions to do so. This includes letting fullbacks run past them. I understand this behaviour for an attack duty, but not a support duty. This role should defend as well as attack (and especially not just stand there while a FB bombs into space). You can sort this with PIs, but I cannot imagine this is how it is meant to be. 

On the plus side I did not see a single throw in near the corner flag result in an offside because the throw in taker immediately receives the ball after taking the throw while offside. Which is pleasing indeed. Although I still feel the game is too happy to pass to wide players who are offside. Most of my offsides are coming in wide areas where the pass is clearly not a good option. Maybe too eager to ,get the ball wide into space in general. 

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2 ore fa, anagain ha scritto:

Does anyone else find goalkeeper ratings to be very low this year?

I've seen my keeper pull off save after save and only get 6.7ish. I just had a report of a loan keeper playing in the cup against a side a level higher. He saved 8 of 9 shots and got 6.7.

I know there's more to a keeper than just saving shots, but it makes me think distribution must be awful to get 6.7 for a near 90% save rate.

(Pre-patch)in my game the best keepers in league have 6,8-6,9 at max

Edited by FlorianAlbert9

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2 horas atrás, autohoratio disse:

Not match-engine related feedback: AI managers are going insane with changing the pitch dimensions in my save. If the "maximum pitch length/width" isn't restricted to the real-life maximum, you end up with almost square pitches... And frustratingly this can't be fixed with the in-game editor so I'd have to start a new save to avoid this.
image.thumb.png.2bf1c36eb1e1ba07fe77b2a8109767e9.png

The FIFA pattern isnt official? Shouldnt all the clubs be obligated to have the pattern? 

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1 hora atrás, jc577 disse:

Perhaps a little bit out of pocket here, but I think the feedback on this forum would be far more effective if posters provided more context, as to better understand why they’re seeing certain patterns of play that other’s might not be. 
 

Having read through the responses since the ME update, there seems to be a 60:40 split (haven’t done the maths so don’t hold me to that) in favour of the update being positive, with an increase in the variety and occurrence of goals being scored.
 

Some posters may not be keen, but perhaps a new thread should be started whereby those who have seen the positive changes post screenshots of their tactics, as do those who are struggling, so that we and SI can gain a better insight into how the ME is performing. 
 

Obviously tactics are highly nuanced, influenced by your players, morale, dynamics, game state etc, but it would at least provide a basis for comparison, to see if basic principles are being followed and if there’s any correlation between that and one’s view of the ME. It’s not an exact science by any means, but certainly an interesting idea imo.

Thats is why I barely consider the statistics from normal save games, people manage Liverpool with billions and players a lot better than other teams and say that the ME is great and tactics is working, and they dont even watch the match in full mode. 

I only test ME on draft fantasy (against A.I.), seeing the entire match, observing the roles, movements and behaviors, etc, I think that is the most accurate way to test and diagnose ME problems

Edited by thiagoanjo

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Too early to set on a definitive opinion, but the ME is clearly ... different. Interesting, challenging for the moment. The" wingback off the mark waiting for the opp defender to come back and block the squaring" still seems in effect, but not systematic. Strikers are performing, but they seem to have much less 1v1 opportunities. So, yeah, i'm back on FM 20 studying this ME before deciding on going back to my main save or drop this year's iteration of FM back into oblivion. Thing is, for the moment, i can't find a way to get a good performance from my very talented inverted wingers in a 41221.

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58 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

The FIFA pattern isnt official? Shouldnt all the clubs be obligated to have the pattern? 

It varies in different leagues. In UEFA competition for example it's mandatory, unless the stadium is too small for the 105*68m pitch (such as Chelsea's Stamford Bridge).

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4 hours ago, autohoratio said:

Not match-engine related feedback: AI managers are going insane with changing the pitch dimensions in my save. If the "maximum pitch length/width" isn't restricted to the real-life maximum, you end up with almost square pitches... And frustratingly this can't be fixed with the in-game editor so I'd have to start a new save to avoid this.
image.thumb.png.2bf1c36eb1e1ba07fe77b2a8109767e9.png

Hilarious!  I have actually seen a lot of skinny pitches in my save, but nothing like that.

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I strongly dislike the new ME for the moment, and my preference goes to the last official one.

I can't even check if 1vs1 are improved or not (although i think they were already pretty good), because there is no more 1vs1 ! EVERY single highlights are set pieces, almost every header goes far off the target, and it's just a lottery about "who is gonna score on a header ?"...

Really painful and really annoying to have such ups and downs while playing this game... During 2 months it's enjoyable, then update and the fun disappears, one new update and it's ok, one another and the stoey goes again... Can't it be more stable ?

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I noticed that cautious teams / smaller teams have sometimes more than 60% possesion when playing against top teams. This is AI vs AI. 

Surely it's something that must be better balanced?

Edited by andu1

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4 minutes ago, Vault-Tec said:

I strongly dislike the new ME for the moment, and my preference goes to the last official one.

I can't even check if 1vs1 are improved or not (although i think they were already pretty good), because there is no more 1vs1 ! EVERY single highlights are set pieces, almost every header goes far off the target, and it's just a lottery about "who is gonna score on a header ?"...

Really painful and really annoying to have such ups and downs while playing this game... During 2 months it's enjoyable, then update and the fun disappears, one new update and it's ok, one another and the stoey goes again... Can't it be more stable ?

Why do you think some people are seeing completely different things to you on this ME? do you think there might be a reason?

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Having played more games, I have some more positive observations:

  • I love how Ball-Playing Defenders play. A good player in that position in the right system can carry it up the flanks. Makes me want to try out a back three at some point.
  • Forwards and wide players make some well-timed runs. In particular, I'm seeing my IWs make some excellent runs whenever one of my midfielders or IWBs get on the ball.
  • While crossing still isn't as varied as I'd like it to be, I'm having more success with them.
  • Headers being more accurate is making those crosses a lot more useful, although a good number still go over the bar. For now, I'm putting that down to my team not having the highest heading attributes it could have.
  • There are through balls. They're very situational; you need the right positioning and timing for them to happen. I actually think this is decently balanced at the moment. Defence-splitting through passes aren't super common in real football, especially outside of the top level.

For context, I'm playing with a strong team in 2024, and the majority of games are against very defensive teams. Games like this can be laborious but it is giving me a chance to play weirder formations (currently playing a 2-3-3-2). After a handful of narrow wins, I've just won 7-0, so I'm pretty pleased with things. 

Away from my own team, I am seeing the AI score more goals than before. I only wish the AI against me was a little more adventurous, because while my team is strong, it's only the third favourites to win the league. As a result, the game can get easy. I'm on a 12-game winning run and have conceded only three times despite playing a crazy formation in most of those games. I leave so much space down the flanks, but teams don't seem willing to exploit that. I'm talking solid mid-table teams just going ultra defensive and narrow from the start, even in their own stadium.

So if I could recommend one thing that could be better balanced, it would be that. I think it would make attacking play more dynamic, too, because there'd be more space to use.

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I didn't see any improvement from this new patch. My CF continue missing clear chances of goal and the opponent with weak players score at the first opportunity

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11 minutes ago, Welshace said:

Why do you think some people are seeing completely different things to you on this ME? do you think there might be a reason?

My tactic I guess :D  Seriously I don't know, but I really enjoyed the previous official ME, even with accurate long balls and 1v1s, that I did not see too much and that people did not like.

So I can't explain this, but I do know that it happens.

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12 horas atrás, saihtam disse:

Can someone please tell me what bug this talks about, would like to start journeyman save.

 

If you start with an amateur club and the board turns semipro, you're still unable to offer part-time contracts (you can only offer non-contract playing fees). This makes it impossible to play with amateur teams in most leagues.

 

It had been addressed already, but an earlier update broke it again... and it's been stuck like this for some months now, even though it can be game breaking.

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Goals are more varied now for sure, strikers can now score on a regular basis which I like, just checked Ronaldo goals for the season and hes scored 40 goals, much more realistic imo, all my goals are been shared and spread among every attacking position with my striker scoring the vast majority, match engine is back to reality imo but am sure some will disagree.

Rashford scored 48 goals in a season for me as an advanced striker position on this new patch so users saying strikers still cant score or 1on1's are still being missed is purely tactical imo, or there sample size is just far to small.

Edited by iAlwaysWin

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22 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Goals are more varied now for sure, strikers can now score on a regular basis which I like, just checked Ronaldo goals for the season and hes scored 40 goals, much more realistic imo, all my goals are been shared and spread among every attacking position with my striker scoring the vast majority, match engine is back to reality imo but am sure some will disagree.

Rashford scored 48 goals in a season for me as an advanced striker position on this new patch so users saying strikers still cant score or 1on1's are still being missed is purely tactical imo, or there sample size is just far to small.

I would be very curious to see your tactic, if that doesn't bother you :) Thanks !

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Definitely getting less breakaway goal attempts, though it feels as if the conversion rate is higher. Less frustrating for sure. 

Haven't given up any easy goals on throw ins, which was probably the number 1 way the other teams would score on me. Throw in on one side, cross to to the other, goal. 

More variety in terms of goals being scored, with my midfielders and wingers finally getting in on the action. 

Tactically I play a reckless style, expecting scores high scores with an occasional beating when I play a better side. The prior ME did not reflect this as I was often getting 1-0 or 2-1 score lines. Now I'm getting the expected 3-2s with the occasional 5-3 beat down when I come up against a more skilled side. 

Seeing a lot more penalties and a much higher conversion rate. Was missing so many that I was considering buying someone specifically for penalty duty. 

Enjoying the change. 

Edited by whyidie

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29 minutes ago, Vault-Tec said:

I would be very curious to see your tactic, if that doesn't bother you :) Thanks !

 

Screenshot (2).png

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Only played one match. Small sample size of course, but since it is my common tactic that I always use for testing, it gives me a good chance for comparison. I also watched other matches as usual.

Overall there is improvement for sure, and in my opinion it is finally decent enough, after a very long wait since the first release of the dreadful FM 19. I feel like I can start a long term save and enjoy it, even though I am sure the more I play the more deficiencies, annoying and unrealistic trends I will discover, but still, it is decent enough, and that's all I am asking for at this point, since the rest of the game outside ME is just fantastic. 

If I can ask for one thing for a final patch, it would be improved central play, but SI has been working on improving that since FM 19, and it still hasn't happened, which makes me believe that there is something fundamentally wrong in how the ME has been coded, and it is just too rigid for tweaks. As I have been suspecting before, there is somehow a strange connection between those long balls from the back and the through balls that we should be seeing in the final third. When SI removed those passes, central play in final third pretty much died as well. There is SOME central play though, which is better than nothing, and certainly better than FM 19.

I'd like to thank SI team for working hard to address the issues, and as far as I can see they have accomplished a lot. ME is not a complete mess any more :thup: If they could only improve the central play until final patch though.. one can dream.

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I forgot to add. I think the ME has been way too much focused on playing the ball to open space ever since FM 19, and that's what is fundamentally wrong imo. In reality football doesn't work that way, because attacking teams, especially the creative players in attacking teams, will always attempt to  play those high risk high reward through balls. Yes, that will give the ball to the opponent more often than not, but when that ball is through, it results in a great scoring chance. Since FM 19 those balls are not being attempted. Of course no team will completely open up the middle and just defend the flanks, and there will be always more space in flanks in final third. But those risky balls have to be attempted to make the ME look more like real football.

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19 hours ago, thiagoanjo said:

100% agreed. Lack of competition made FM 17 get 3 patches, they call FM18, 19 and 20, big patches for FM17.

Almost no improvement of ME, the most important thing in the game. And it seems SI has no test team, cause the issues that people are raising are so obvious and happens almost every single game, there are no testers that plays the entire match on full mode? How they release a game with that amount of  ME bugs? 

The ME is actually quite pathetic if you think about it.

This is 2020 and there is barely a passing resemblance to football happening on the pitch. 

People talk about resources but it seems so much resources have been put into irrelevant stuff off the pitch. Sure it's primarily a management game but management doesn't need to be that complicated. And the more complicated you make it the more there is a risk of those things not being reflected in the ME.

In 2020 one would expect that we would have a game that pretty much looks like real football especially when it is 'just' a management game.

The big advantage a management game has over say FIFA or PES is that it can more easily predict the moves. It doesn't need to worry about a human controlling the game and making it do thinks, it just needs to take a set of instructions and plug them into an existing template. That existing template should look like real football. 

Surely the starting point is just to take real life events and put them into a game. The goals, passes, tackles, saves and the rest should be lifted directly from real football matches. They can do that because they get to control the actions on the pitch. 

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5 horas atrás, iAlwaysWin disse:

 

Screenshot (2).png

That is why I dont give credits to this kind of test, you manage a big club with massive money, got good players, almost anything on the pitch against other clubs will result bad. The observation should be on draft fantasy against A.I. in full mode to see the behavior of roles and the routines, doesnt matter if you win games on your save and if you can do some moves against less good players

Edited by thiagoanjo

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6 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

That is why I dont give credits to this kind of test, you manage a big club with massive money, got good players, almost anything on the pitch against other clubs will result good. The observation should be on draft fantasy against A.I. in full mode to see the behavior of roles and the routines, doesnt matter if you win games on your save and if you can do some moves against less good players

I take it as a complement that you think i've built a really strong starting eleven, but I wouldn't consider Manchester united as an elite team to go from the get go, I could think of 10 teams better to start with than Manchester united, I just picked a team at random for the new patch and I can think of so many more desirable teams to go to be honest.

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17 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

I take it as a complement that you think i've built a really strong starting eleven, but I wouldn't consider Manchester united as an elite team to go from the get go, I could think of 10 teams better to start with than Manchester united, I just picked a team at random for the new patch and I can think of so many more desirable teams to go to be honest.

Uh, Man U, at least in game, are an elite team. They’re a giant. Maybe not 1st season, but 2nd season I’d personally be disappointed not to be winning the league.

In fact on my journeyman save, the AI of Man U DID win the league.

Edited by sidslayer

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38 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

The ME is actually quite pathetic if you think about it.

This is 2020 and there is barely a passing resemblance to football happening on the pitch. Sometimes I wonder if the people who developed the game have ever actually seen a game a football.

People talk about resources but it seems so much resources have been put into irrelevant stuff off the pitch. Sure it's primarily a management game but management doesn't need to be that complicated. And the more complicated you make it the more there is a risk of those things not being reflected in the ME.

In 2020 one would expect that we would have a game that pretty much looks like real football especially when it is 'just' a management game.

The big advantage a management game has over say FIFA or PES is that it can more easily predict the moves. It doesn't need to worry about a human controlling the game and making it do thinks, it just needs to take a set of instructions and plug them into an existing template. That existing template should look like real football. 

Surely the starting point is just to take real life events and put them into a game. The goals, passes, tackles, saves and the rest should be lifted directly from real football matches. They can do that because they get to control the actions on the pitch. 

Looks “pretty much like football” to me. It’s a game. Get over it.

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4 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

Uh, Man U, at least in game, are an elite team. They’re a giant. Maybe not 1st season, but 2nd season I’d personally be disappointed not to be winning the league.

In fact on my journeyman save, the AI of Man U DID win the league.

First season they need so many important signings, if you think there so easy then post your results with this so called elite team , as I said I can think of at least 10 more desirable teams to go than Manchester united.

Anyway Manchester United aren't up for debate weather they are an elite team or not, it is the match engine is displaying more variety in goals variation and strikers are scoring more significant numbers.

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