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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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26 minutes ago, Sanel said:

I don't understand why people and even Miles keep bringing up stats,

Yep. I agree. I don’t know why people keep bringing up... Wait, hold on...

4 hours ago, Sanel said:

Quick reality check, 80% of the people who play FM nowadays are all om the same boat. There are thousands of people here that represent and speak for the majority of the community. 

Woah there. 80%? Where did that stat come from? There are a lot of people here, yes, but they represent themselves.  I’m a part of this community and no-one speaks for me apart from myself. I don’t know where this notion of ‘speaking for the majority’ comes from.

Edited by Bry

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1 minute ago, Rashidi said:

I am sorry so its ok for you to say 80% and "all" and use totally imaginary numbers to make it sound like you have a valid argument, but its not ok for others to use stats and numbers. And then you have the audacity to  go around calling people "fanboys" because some people disagree with you. I rest my case. Thanks for making my point for me.

Keep ignoring the rest of the post brother.

You make FM content right? Well to be honest if you are a 'content creator' and don't want to acknowledge serious issues about the game because whatever reason I might call you a fanboy.

You want REAL feedback? I'd advise SI to hire a good business analist to see how many of those 60k are returning people for FM 21, because if my theory is right there would be a significant decline in players. If the game is just as bad as the previous two versions I expect around 30k live players which would be a negative milestone. :)

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5 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Keep ignoring the rest of the post brother.

You make FM content right? Well to be honest if you are a 'content creator' and don't want to acknowledge serious issues about the game because whatever reason I might call you a fanboy.

You want REAL feedback? I'd advise SI to hire a good business analist to see how many of those 60k are returning people for FM 21, because if my theory is right there would be a significant decline in players. If the game is just as bad as the previous two versions I expect around 30k live players which would be a negative milestone. :)

The majority of players don’t use this forum. Only the fanboys. And mainly the fanboys that feel entitled.

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Just now, Tiger666 said:

I'd appreciate not being labelled a fanboy thanks.

Ok. A lover of FM?

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Following this thread can get you in to a spiral of negativity and probably the vast majority of players don't see the negatives as bad as some do here and don't post here.

I am enjoying this version, but feedback such as this gets drowned out here. There's only so many times you can shout you enjoy the version. 

Is it perfect? No, not to me, but it's more than good enough. There can always be improvements and maybe SI could have done better this version on release (annual releases aren't that groundbreaking).

I am using a tactic loosely based on Mr U Rosler's (find it in the tactics forum here) which suits how I like my teams to play and I'm not really seeing the ME problems as bad as some might be.

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12 minutes ago, Jibby123 said:

Following this thread can get you in to a spiral of negativity and probably the vast majority of players don't see the negatives as bad as some do here and don't post here.

I am enjoying this version, but feedback such as this gets drowned out here. There's only so many times you can shout you enjoy the version. 

Is it perfect? No, not to me, but it's more than good enough. There can always be improvements and maybe SI could have done better this version on release (annual releases aren't that groundbreaking).

I am using a tactic loosely based on Mr U Rosler's (find it in the tactics forum here) which suits how I like my teams to play and I'm not really seeing the ME problems as bad as some might be.

Now, see, this is the weird thing about it.

  • With the demo, I wasn't experiencing the "missed chances" issue. With the full game (same game version), in the same league, at a different team, with slightly better players, I do.
  • Neither with the demo, nor with the full game do I experience the "long balls over the top" issue, but a lot of the others do. Enough of them for me to believe that it's not always because of overly aggressive tactics.
  • Neither with the demo, nor with the full game do I experience the "missed penalties" issue, but a lot of people do.
  • I do experience most of the often mentioned other issues though.

I suppose the real problem could be with failing to make things work realistically  at all levels of world football, instead of a generic "THE ME IS BROKEN, HURR-DURR" issue.

I think there are –  broadly speaking – two kinds of FM players:

  • The ones who tinker with everything, who invest a lot of time into managing every minutae detail, and when you do that, you don't expect "more than good enough", because that's not enough of a payout. You expect every detail to have an (at least) slightly meaningful effect, just how it should work in complex strategy games.
  • And the ones who use other people's tactics. If what you put in wasn't entirely your work, you will be satisfied with getting back less.

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37 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

The majority of players don’t use this forum. Only the fanboys. And mainly the fanboys that feel entitled.

This is true. And I think fanboy expression is a positive one in this case. 

The amount of users that post in SI forums, when compare with the people that are playing the game, is a very reduce percentage. 

However this feedback is vital to SI and to improve the game. 

Ignore 150 pages of feedback is a mistake, and I'm glad that SI pays close attention to the minority of playing users that post here. 

The problem with this forum, at least imo, is how easy the game goes from "some issues with the ME" to "the game is broken and its the worst version ever". This just shows how subjective opinions can be. 

I can understand the frustration of some users. Clearly FM is their favorite game, so, playing it and not having a enjoyable experience can be very frustrating, but people need to try to relax a bit and not stretch that frustration to a level where they start accusing other users or staff. 

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1 hour ago, Jibby123 said:

Following this thread can get you in to a spiral of negativity and probably the vast majority of players don't see the negatives as bad as some do here and don't post here.

I am enjoying this version, but feedback such as this gets drowned out here. There's only so many times you can shout you enjoy the version. 

Is it perfect? No, not to me, but it's more than good enough. There can always be improvements and maybe SI could have done better this version on release (annual releases aren't that groundbreaking).

I am using a tactic loosely based on Mr U Rosler's (find it in the tactics forum here) which suits how I like my teams to play and I'm not really seeing the ME problems as bad as some might be.

This is my experience of the game. Albeit with my own tactic. There are only so many times it can be said that tactics DO have an influence on what the ME shows you.

I’m not doubting all the issues people are facing, I’ve seen them too. But to a large extent, through hours of tinkering, a lot of these issues can be mitigated somewhat, and the ones that can’t are, well, frustrating sure, but making the game unplayable!? I don’t see it.

FM ME’s have always had quirks. They always will have. I’m not seeing anything that makes the game “broken”. All I’m seeing are the usual, albeit different, issues FM has always had.

I want to strive for a perfect game like everyone else. The detailed posts that list all the issues are absolutely valid. But endless comments of its broken, how dare SI release this game in this state, I won’t be pre ordering next year etc etc are just, well ... pointless rants actually.

Strikes me that FM lovers love it so much that they’ve lost a bit of perspective.

 

Edited by sidslayer

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26 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

This is true. And I think fanboy expression is a positive one in this case. 

The amount of users that post in SI forums, when compare with the people that are playing the game, is a very reduce percentage. 

However this feedback is vital to SI and to improve the game. 

Ignore 150 pages of feedback is a mistake, and I'm glad that SI pays close attention to the minority of playing users that post here. 

The problem with this forum, at least imo, is how easy the game goes from "some issues with the ME" to "the game is broken and its the worst version ever". This just shows how subjective opinions can be. 

I can understand the frustration of some users. Clearly FM is their favorite game, so, playing it and not having a enjoyable experience can be very frustrating, but people need to try to relax a bit and not stretch that frustration to a level where they start accusing other users or staff. 

Lol. I should have seen this before posting my last post!

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb Sanel:


Quick reality check, 80% of the people who play FM nowadays are all om the same boat. There are thousands of people here that represent and speak for the majority of the community. 
 
People want a good game with simplicity, not features that try sell the game for the 20% minority.

It's the other way around, but people tend to think their own view must be the majority.

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Just now, KUBI said:

It's the other way around, but people tend to think their own view must be the majority.

'my own view' hahahahaha

d4ac43c408200897966add72ffdf1b94.png

Tell me which one looks nicer to you. If you say the right one you are probably lying. 

This is simple UI design, one of many improvements I can show you all.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Sanel:

'my own view' hahahahaha

d4ac43c408200897966add72ffdf1b94.png

Tell me which one looks nicer to you. If you say the right one you are probably lying. 

This is simple UI design, one of many improvements I can show you all.

Yeah it looks a bit dull without players selected, but that's what you wanted.

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3 minutes ago, Sanel said:

'my own view' hahahahaha

d4ac43c408200897966add72ffdf1b94.png

Tell me which one looks nicer to you. If you say the right one you are probably lying. 

This is simple UI design, one of many improvements I can show you all.

100% prefer the right one... left is too cluttered while the the right is clean and crisp, which is exactly what i want from a tactical and formation view..

 

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5 minutes ago, Sanel said:

'my own view' hahahahaha

d4ac43c408200897966add72ffdf1b94.png

Tell me which one looks nicer to you. If you say the right one you are probably lying. 

This is simple UI design, one of many improvements I can show you all.

UI is the least of our worries.

Can be adapted and skinned anyway.

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7 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Tell me which one looks nicer to you. If you say the right one you are probably lying. 

This is simple UI design, one of many improvements I can show you all.

The one on the left is much less accessible, those clickable menus and buttons are far too tiny, and the text is even smaller too. Not great if you struggle to click small things, or have low vision.

If you prefer the left one that's completely up to you, but the game is designed for a variety of people and platforms while at the same time, refreshing the look so it doesn't look dated. Besides which, there is more functionality on the pitch now than there was before with the different view buttons in the top left.

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vor 37 Minuten schrieb sidslayer:

This is my experience of the game. Albeit with my own tactic. There are only so many times it can be said that tactics DO have an influence on what the ME shows you.

I’m not doubting all the issues people are facing, I’ve seen them too. But to a large extent, through hours of tinkering, a lot of these issues can be mitigated somewhat, and the ones that can’t are, well, frustrating sure, but making the game unplayable!? I don’t see it.

FM ME’s have always had quirks. They always will have. I’m not seeing anything that makes the game “broken”. All I’m seeing are the usual, albeit different, issues FM has always had.

I want to strive for a perfect game like everyone else. The detailed posts that list all the issues are absolutely valid. But endless comments of its broken, how dare SI release this game in this state, I won’t be pre ordering next year etc etc are just, well ... pointless rants actually.

Strikes me that FM lovers love it so much that they’ve lost a bit of perspective.

 

There is a lot of psychology in there. Some people focus on what they don't like and the longer they focus on it the more they don't like it. To find the hair in the soup is important to find bugs, but if you do it all the time you will not enjoy a lot of things in life. 

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2 hours ago, Sanel said:

I don't understand why people and even Miles keep bringing up stats, if explained this a couple of times over the course of the last 2-3 years here. You are being the fanboy now who's defending criticism with stats 'Look! 60k players are playing the game, that's more than ever. The game can't be bad!'. People who do business but don't care about improving their product say this too. 

SI is doing PR to cater the game to new players. 

SI is releasing additional features which seem interesting at first glance (but are not useful to useless to experienced players).

SI didn't do any or less PR in the past which is why you see a increase in active players. 

A significant amount of those 60k players are people who don't enjoy the game but still play it anyways because they play nothing else, then come to this feedback topic to post their frustrations.

New players don't know how good and enjoyable older FM's are, they think that this is the standard. If I would play the game for the first time or FM 19 was my first one I would think this too. 

Standards where much higher before and this is why people want to see improvement. I've wrote countless posts about braindead improvements that everyone wants to see.

Weird post my dude.... Can you tell me where you get your stats from? because it sounds like you are pulling them from nowhere.. literally everything you've said is almost completely in direct contradiction to my own feelings on the game... tell me why yours matter?

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Hi all,

 

I enjoy it as long as the people of SI are there. 

We paid 50e on average i think and we want a simple answer.

Will there be an update before March ? If yes WHEN ?

WE PAY AND WE WANT TO KNOW ! WE PAY 50E ok !!

 

(disappearance of people from SI...) :Bowen:

Edited by LOVEFMyeah

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1 minute ago, LOVEFMyeah said:

Will there be an update before March ? If yes WHEN ?

 

There will be an update when its ready. 

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3 minutes ago, LOVEFMyeah said:

Hi all,

 

I enjoy it as long as the people of SI are there. 

We paid 50e on average i think and we want a simple answer.

Will there be an update before March ? If yes WHEN ?

WE PAY AND WE WANT TO KNOW ! WE PAY 50E ok !!

 

 

It's really easy... it will be released when they feel it's ready...   for a clue of when, check when they have always released it previously...

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3 minutes ago, Lucas said:

The one on the left is much less accessible, those clickable menus and buttons are far too tiny, and the text is even smaller too. Not great if you struggle to click small things, or have low vision.

If you prefer the left one that's completely up to you, but the game is designed for a variety of people and platforms while at the same time, refreshing the look so it doesn't look dated. Besides which, there is more functionality on the pitch now than there was before with the different view buttons in the top left.

You are talking nonsense as the current UI was clearly not designed to be more accessible. The current game uses a font called GT America, which to me, is just painful to watch no matter what screen I use, why switch from HelveticaNeue as that was smoother on the eye? 

Not to mention the staff responsibility panel, a lot of people complained about that. See.. these are just small UI improvements. I can name numerous small improvements that make the game significantly better for everyone. 

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb Sanel:

Not to mention the staff responsibility panel, a lot of people complained about that. See.. these are just small UI improvements. I can name numerous small improvements that make the game significantly better for everyone. 

Post all those ideas here:

https://community.sigames.com/forum/680-football-manager-feature-requests/

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10 minutes ago, Sanel said:

You are talking nonsense as the current UI was clearly not designed to be more accessible. The current game uses a font called GT America, which to me, is just painful to watch no matter what screen I use, why switch from HelveticaNeue as that was smoother on the eye? 

It's still a sans serif typeface which is recommended when it comes to accessibility. 

Some like Helvetica, others might prefer Verdana. Most fonts require licensing as well for commercial products.

There will always be people who have different taste when it comes to user interface, but just because that's your opinion, doesn't make it true that it will make the game significantly better for everyone. 

Whenever there is a change in some user interface element or design, it goes through a process that includes usability feedback before it's finalised. 

That doesn't mean it stays that way forever, it is always constantly evolving due to feedback. The feature request forum is a great place to start as KUBI says :) Cheers.

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And it can be edited by the user, I believe. A lot of the UI can anyway. Although not overly easily, but plenty of people around on the skinning forum that can help.

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39 минут назад, Sanel сказал:

Tell me which one looks nicer to you. If you say the right one you are probably lying. 

 

Reason why I can't play in FM12-FM15 in modern times is interface which I like much better in FM19-FM20 (including purple skin - first default skin which I using). Only one thing is indefinite - Dev Centre because I still search loan list in transfers etc. but as stated above 'your' opinion is not opinion of all members. 

 

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1 minute ago, sidslayer said:

And it can be edited by the user, I believe. A lot of the UI can anyway. Although not overly easily, but plenty of people around on the skinning forum that can help.

Don't post stuff like this. Please. Because when a new version comes out you are again fully depended on skin creators to make a suitable skin. You are basically saying to SI that you don't care how the UI looks. The UI is a vital part of the game as you look at it for most of the time you spend on the game, besides playing matches. 

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1 minute ago, Sanel said:

Don't post stuff like this. Please. Because when a new version comes out you are again fully depended on skin creators to make a suitable skin. You are basically saying to SI that you don't care how the UI looks. The UI is a vital part of the game as you look at it for most of the time you spend on the game, besides playing matches. 

I create my own skin actually, because like you, there are elements to the UI that I’d prefer in a different way. Small adjustments because basically you know what you’re gonna get with a new version of FM. It’s FM. The UI hasn’t evolved that much in the last few years, has it?

SI give us the ability to edit the UI for the very reasons you’re moaning about. 

My post is valid. I’m trying to help you.

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1 ora fa, Sanel ha scritto:

'my own view' hahahahaha

d4ac43c408200897966add72ffdf1b94.png

Tell me which one looks nicer to you. If you say the right one you are probably lying. 

This is simple UI design, one of many improvements I can show you all.

I like more the right one whitout doubt. 

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22 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Don't post stuff like this. Please. Because when a new version comes out you are again fully depended on skin creators to make a suitable skin. You are basically saying to SI that you don't care how the UI looks. The UI is a vital part of the game as you look at it for most of the time you spend on the game, besides playing matches. 

This kind of feedback is what would be useful for us to hear about in the feature request forum. 

I understand it's definitely frustrating if there is something you want to do or change, you know it's possible but it's not straight forward enough. 

It doesn't mean though that people don't care how the UI looks, remember everyone has different tastes, preferences and style and it's important to cater to the majority in order to get the kind of feedback I'm asking you to post in the FR forum :) 

If you can do that, that would be great. 

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9 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

I like more the right one whitout doubt. 

Yep. Also extra information is more accessible for me

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@Sanel

What are you hoping to achieve by going around insulting people? It doesn't strengthen the veracity of your arguments, all it does is puts people on the defensive and more likely to reciprocate with hostility of their own towards you. If the game was as bad as some people on this thread are suggesting then SI would be observing the exact opposite trend, year on year they would be seeing fewer and fewer players buying and playing the game.

Having a monopoly in a genre of computer game is completely different than say being the sole grocer in a remote village. Nobody is forced to buy the game, just because it may be the sole football management title out there means nothing in the grand scheme of things when there are so many other ways that people can spend their free time. People are buying the game because they WANT to and playing it because they WANT to, flaws and all. To argue otherwise is nonsensical.

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2 minutes ago, pheelf said:

@Sanel

What are you hoping to achieve by going around insulting people? It doesn't strengthen the veracity of your arguments, all it does is puts people on the defensive and more likely to reciprocate with hostility of their own towards you. If the game was as bad as some people on this thread are suggesting then SI would be observing the exact opposite trend, year on year they would be seeing fewer and fewer players buying and playing the game.

Having a monopoly in a genre of computer game is completely different than say being the sole grocer in a remote village. Nobody is forced to buy the game, just because it may be the sole football management title out there means nothing in the grand scheme of things when there are so many other ways that people can spend their free time. People are buying the game because they WANT to and playing it because they WANT to, flaws and all. To argue otherwise is nonsensical.

I suspect anything anyone says to him will fall on deaf ears.. every one of his posts seem to point that he believes he's an authority of all things FM and SI and surely everything he thinks is universal to every user.... scary really.

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FM 19 and 20's UI is much more improved compared to FM18 and below. 

I can't stand the small letters format present in the old versions. Although many can argue that FM 17's ME is better than 18, 19 and 20, the UI is most certainly not ( at least for me ).

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1 hour ago, Sanel said:

Don't post stuff like this. Please. Because when a new version comes out you are again fully depended on skin creators to make a suitable skin. You are basically saying to SI that you don't care how the UI looks. The UI is a vital part of the game as you look at it for most of the time you spend on the game, besides playing matches. 

Actually it's quite the opposite.

What SI is saying is..."hey this our view how the UI should look. This is how we think our game should look like! But we understand that others may think differently, so we give you the tools and make it very accessible so that you can change the UI for your save games the way you like more"

Are there many companies that allow you to do that?

Edited by Keyzer Soze

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27 minutes ago, pheelf said:

Nobody is forced to buy the game, just because it may be the sole football management title out there means nothing in the grand scheme of things when there are so many other ways that people can spend their free time. People are buying the game because they WANT to and playing it because they WANT to, flaws and all. To argue otherwise is nonsensical.

See you miss the point here man, but people buy it because they don't play anything else besides Football Manager, not because the game is really good. If it's average people would still play it probably however we've come to the point that it's below average. This game has a huge loyal fanbase but when the loyal fanbase complains and doesn't want to play anymore that's very alarming to the future of the game. The reason why there is 60k players active is because there is nothing else compared to FM. You can't play older versions as the db isn't up to the date, older versions are like meh, it's like returning to your ex girlfriend, you remember the good times but there's nothing new to experience. 

I'm registered for more than 10 years on these forums now and I've actually had nothing to complain about till FM 19 launched. I think that I didn't enjoy FM 18 as well, I can't remember why though. But posting feedback here is like writing a 1000 page essay and pressing delete, I've posted numerous amount of feedback however I feel that it's not getting listened at or it takes too long for SI to fix a specific issue. It's also very general and straight forward feedback as well, and as far I can remember I've never had actual complaints about the ME till now. I've seen people posting specific issues like: 'my rightback doesn't cover the wings enough in a 3-5-2 blabla' which is just nonsense to me.

I also still see the same people on here who want to defend criticism over the course of the years, which is fine but it's always a discussion between people that don't like the game and people who actually do like. This even happened back in the day, however I feel there's now more discussion because the issues are for more urgent than in the past. I think that people who defend it just have less standards and have a different mentality, they just say 'deal with it, it will be fine'. It's ok, but I'm not that type of person, not after spending €100,- on something that I didn't enjoy and do want to enjoy. 

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29 minutes ago, Sanel said:

See you miss the point here man, but people buy it because they don't play anything else besides Football Manager, not because the game is really good. If it's average people would still play it probably however we've come to the point that it's below average. This game has a huge loyal fanbase but when the loyal fanbase complains and doesn't want to play anymore that's very alarming to the future of the game. The reason why there is 60k players active is because there is nothing else compared to FM. You can't play older versions as the db isn't up to the date, older versions are like meh, it's like returning to your ex girlfriend, you remember the good times but there's nothing new to experience. 

I'm registered for more than 10 years on these forums now and I've actually had nothing to complain about till FM 19 launched. I think that I didn't enjoy FM 18 as well, I can't remember why though. But posting feedback here is like writing a 1000 page essay and pressing delete, I've posted numerous amount of feedback however I feel that it's not getting listened at or it takes too long for SI to fix a specific issue. It's also very general and straight forward feedback as well, and as far I can remember I've never had actual complaints about the ME till now. I've seen people posting specific issues like: 'my rightback doesn't cover the wings enough in a 3-5-2 blabla' which is just nonsense to me.

I also still see the same people on here who want to defend criticism over the course of the years, which is fine but it's always a discussion between people that don't like the game and people who actually do like. This even happened back in the day, however I feel there's now more discussion because the issues are for more urgent than in the past. I think that people who defend it just have less standards and have a different mentality, they just say 'deal with it, it will be fine'. It's ok, but I'm not that type of person, not after spending €100,- on something that I didn't enjoy and do want to enjoy. 

Ultimately however, your subjective opinion is just that, subjective. It is not necessarily someone else's opinion, nor can you speak as if your opinion is the only truth. The feedback thread is not a battleground for an argument or view to be pushed over another. It does not give you the right to be so abrasive or insulting, or say someone is posting nonsense because you disagree with what they say. One of the core points of the feedback thread is to try and get a broad spectrum of views, not for people to get together and batter everyone else with their opinion, nor belittle others for taking a different stance. Above all, engagement must be respectful, otherwise people may lose that right to engage. I hope you and others will take this on board because otherwise it will leave us little choice but to take action against those who cannot respect others

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hi we have the possibility of a patch this week? I would like to say one thing is since January 19 that the beta patch has been released and since then I think it is not fair that the whole development team has not given any information to us customers even small weekly information on news on what they are working on and what period they are .. for example in the beta pacth there is a clash that the changes have been tested by the team but not yet made official not having signed them completely. I say possible that in 20 days no minimum news and changes from January 19? I think it's done just to silence us customers. Ultimately I say at least give us small weekly information on the progress they are having on pacth is not a state secret to interargare and clarify doubts to us consumers. thank you

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13 minutes ago, Sanel said:

See you miss the point here man, but people buy it because they don't play anything else besides Football Manager, not because the game is really good. If it's average people would still play it probably however we've come to the point that it's below average. This game has a huge loyal fanbase but when the loyal fanbase complains and doesn't want to play anymore that's very alarming to the future of the game. The reason why there is 60k players active is because there is nothing else compared to FM. You can't play older versions as the db isn't up to the date, older versions are like meh, it's like returning to your ex girlfriend, you remember the good times but there's nothing new to experience. 

I'm registered for more than 10 years on these forums now and I've actually had nothing to complain about till FM 19 launched. I think that I didn't enjoy FM 18 as well, I can't remember why though. But posting feedback here is like writing a 1000 page essay and pressing delete, I've posted numerous amount of feedback however I feel that it's not getting listened at or it takes too long for SI to fix a specific issue. It's also very general and straight forward feedback as well, and as far I can remember I've never had actual complaints about the ME till now. I've seen people posting specific issues like: 'my rightback doesn't cover the wings enough in a 3-5-2 blabla' which is just nonsense to me.

I also still see the same people on here who want to defend criticism over the course of the years, which is fine but it's always a discussion between people that don't like the game and people who actually do like. This even happened back in the day, however I feel there's now more discussion because the issues are for more urgent than in the past. I think that people who defend it just have less standards and have a different mentality, they just say 'deal with it, it will be fine'. It's ok, but I'm not that type of person, not after spending €100,- on something that I didn't enjoy and do want to enjoy. 

They buy the game because it’s really good. In fact it’s so good that any “issue” glows like an exploding star. 

It’s not about less standards. It’s about ENTITLEMENT.

You’ve raised the feedback you’ve wanted, as have we all. But bashing the game you love, ranting that you won’t be buying it on pre order, that the game is broken etc (and I’m not saying this is you) is totally pointless, stirs the boiling pot and creates a virus of negativity that isn’t productive.

I personally don’t just defend the game because I love it. I have many criticisms. I don’t have lower standards. I do it because I’m realistic, I like the way the game is progressing (the ME needs work- when hasn’t it?), I KNOW FM so don’t expect anything, but mainly I’m not entitled.

I’m not entitled to anything. I know what SI are going to release. A deeply absorbing football experience that is basically a way of life. I’ve been playing it for so long that I KNOW what to expect. Do you really think SI are deliberately trying to frustrate everyone? The series has been like this forever. It gets SO much right. Like, SO much.

To be so aggressive in pointing out what is wrong just shows how much you love it. And if it’s really that bad or “broken” for you, and I feel your frustration, I would either keep making suggestions of what you’d like to change, or find another way of life that doesn’t cause so much anger.

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I'm gonna give my take on this.

The ME has been awful since fm19 imho, last year crossing was an issue, scoring was an issue (in the first update) and central play was an issue. What *most* (from this thread i've gathered) is that the ME needs to be better so we watch the highlights or whatever motion to watch the match in feel like a real match, make it seem like football is being played based on what you selected and want given the paremeters of the squad depth and ability. FM20 is a step up from 19 (people can argue their case at this point) imo, however the update itself has made new issues look like it's a "broken game". 

Again the same issue is still apparent, central play, crossing in some capacity although improved still players now shoot from wider angles rather than pass when the oppertunity rises and scoring in a different way leading to 1v1's and not scoring enough. The whole 1v1 debacle is caused by something in the ME, 1v1 chances shouldn't have ever been as high as they had as it's quite literally the majority of scoring and scoring oppertunities (if im not correct here then do reply). This should've have been fixed before the release of the patch and I know coding the ME is hard but it shouldn't be this way till the game is closer to immitating to football that people who play the game accept. I've watched a few streams to know the same thing happens- ball over the top with defenders to slow to react creating a 1v1 where they may or maynot score when their tactic is shorter passing/tika taka/possession based etc. If their tactic is direct then fair enough but not many in comparison that is tend to stay direct and want to see balls pumped, thats a fundamental that needs to be changed in order to set things right. 

I've not played the public beta so I cant speak of what is good or bad for it but only in hope that this issue is fixed for the next patch or FM21, if it hasn't then people will steer away from the game that some have since 19. Someone stated before that sales is the highest its been and the amount of people player on particiular days/per day has gone up year by year. It's a somewhat missleading stat, it must take into account that people just play it without noticing the bugs and ALOT of people do that, heck I did that in 15/16 before noticing changes. I didn't like 19, I still bought it, don't like 20, still bought it because there is the sense of hope (some would say false hope) that something WILL change or they just appreciate the games features and new things. An example would be updated database, seeing new wonderkids and new players with stats and new coaches and backroom stuff is what immerses the game, when i play 17 and used United, it bugs me that greenwood is not existant (you can change this ofc through 3rd party databse changes but it'd be realistic from FM officials which ofc cant happen after each release) and other stuff thats not updated. A few more bits like wonderkids in 17 you'd barely find an inside forward which is vital to the way I play but in 19/20 that's sorted, thats not a rareity anymore, little things like this can and does help as it bugs SOME of us so we end up buying the game anyways.

The comparisons to older fm's shouldnt be disregarded, imo fm17 is arguably the best ME in the last few years, those that compare it to older fm versions to make a point that the ME is flawed nor nothing like the ones that provided comfort to the games fun aspects and enjoyment should be taken into account. Lets say fm17 had the best ME subjectively ofc, the central play was good, the physics of the ball animation was great, players doing what they were told, attributes feeling like they mattered in game, no major game breaking faults and most of all it felt like you was sitting there watching and feeling like it was a real football match (their were negatives too like defending with wingers leaving gaps but did that break the play you saw? or how fluid it looked?). You don't get the same feeling with 20 because their are bugs/issues that are ruining aspects of the game. If you had a +15 composed/+15 finishing on a striker there is shown to be minimal difference to that lower, a streamer I watch tested this without knowing and his weaker striker scored/scores more than the other and both play the same roles. Ofc there are different factors leading to that but you'd expect some balance in there to show the attribute difference, hes got a striker on 10 finishing thats at league 1 level scoring in the prem more so than a striker with 14 finishing thats decent for the prem, think about that, is that right? do reports tell false info? why is it a 1  1/2 * can out perform a 3 1/2*? 

My recommendation would be to fix the 1v1 issue and balls over the top and see some form of central play without deterring other parts of the ME cause defending looks okay, pressing can be improved, you can see some difference in other attributes e.g. pace,heading, technique, most technical and physical stats actually etc. Maybe look at fm 17 or whatever that poll where it was the best FM and use the same ME coding and make it as close as possible without making major bugs to it. Imho FM17 was the closest to loving the game, go back to that and maybe tweak some bits to fit with other features. I know it's easier said than done but if you want the best game possible go a few steps back and start again or even set up a testing phase for a similar mold to fm17 as one of the many ME's you have and see which is better or release it during the beta phase to get a gauge of peoples choices of the ME etc.

The SI do their job and even if you hate the game you cannot be rude or disrespectful to them for trying to deliver a game, there's a reason the forums work and they've listen and they've knocked down bugs, thats a sign of a company and a team trying to improve the game regardless of what you think, it's not all about money, dont forget these are human people too whom have lives!! 

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53 minutes ago, Kirariuk said:

 

hi we have the possibility of a patch this week? I would like to say one thing is since January 19 that the beta patch has been released and since then I think it is not fair that the whole development team has not given any information to us customers even small weekly information on news on what they are working on and what period they are .. for example in the beta pacth there is a clash that the changes have been tested by the team but not yet made official not having signed them completely. I say possible that in 20 days no minimum news and changes from January 19? I think it's done just to silence us customers. Ultimately I say at least give us small weekly information on the progress they are having on pacth is not a state secret to interargare and clarify doubts to us consumers. thank you

 

Progress isn't linear in the development of a game like this.... i.e if they tell us they have completed 50% of the match engine issues, the very next day something will come along and unbalance the whole damn engine and they will be back at 0% ... there is no benefit in giving any time limit on themselves, none whatsoever.

It has always been this way and always will I suspect... it will be ready when they feel comfortable in the progress made and that's it really..   what you can do is look at when they have released the updates in previous years and will be fairly safe in thinking it will be similar this year.... i.e march.

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6 minutes ago, Welshace said:

 

Progress isn't linear in the development of a game like this.... i.e if they tell us they have completed 50% of the match engine issues, the very next day something will come along and unbalance the whole damn engine and they will be back at 0% ... there is no benefit in giving any time limit on themselves, none whatsoever.

It has always been this way and always will I suspect... it will be ready when they feel comfortable in the progress made and that's it really..   what you can do is look at when they have released the updates in previous years and will be fairly safe in thinking it will be similar this year.... i.e march.

That would be a very good argument if the whole concept of me was in development for a year, or maybe year and a half, but it's been a lot more years then that where the me has the same foundation as in previous versions, and people just don't expect the series to go backwards, or to be a step down (doesn't matter if it's subjective or objective, there are problems with the ME, and it's the fundamental ones, which weren't present before).

It's not about the money either, i would gladly give 50e more to have any match engine from fm12 to fm19 with fm20 features and mechanics that aren't fm20 ME. It's just about not enjoying something that has a lot of potential, and it's right there, you know there is a version of match engine that is enjoyable to you, but don't get to have new features, like better and varied newgen generation, so you have to chose which is more important to you. Doesn't have to be new database either, people would make that on their own, just some previous remastered fm and that would be the first thing that i would spend my money on

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6 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Match Engine Update out now. Details here - https://community.sigames.com/topic/512866-football-manager-2020-match-engine-update-2024-out-now/

Will look to close this feedback thread and start a new one given the majority of posts are related to the ME, however will let people download it and try for themselves for a little bit first. Thanks. 

Thank you guys! Can't wait to play tonight :D

*I will also be waiting for the feedback of the people in here

Edited by Jimmious7

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9 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Match Engine Update out now. Details here - https://community.sigames.com/topic/512866-football-manager-2020-match-engine-update-2024-out-now/

Will look to close this feedback thread and start a new one given the majority of posts are related to the ME, however will let people download it and try for themselves for a little bit first. Thanks. 

Oh.... really?

Now that the fun was beginning..... :D

No serious... any idea when it will be released for the tablet version?

Edited by Keyzer Soze

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Just now, robinthebest said:

is this basically the beta ME?

No it's been worked on further since the public beta version was released. 

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I can safely opt-out of the Public Beta right now to play the normal 20.2.4 version without damaging my savegame?

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