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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread


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43 minutes ago, Sunderland AFC said:

You're just trying to justify a totally broken match engine. Pretty sad.

 

SI have accepted theres major issues but you think it's just down to tactics and people just dont know what they're doing. 

I was actually trying to stem the flow of unnecessary hate. The ME is not totally broken. Totally broken is a ME that doesn’t work at all. Broken by definition means not working. The ME is working. Just not how some would like. Of course the ME is a bit wonky. When has it ever been perfect? 
 

I was pointing out that conceding 3 exact same goals in one game highlights a tactical deficiency. Blame the ME all you want, but there is no reason to concede 3 goals, exactly the same way in one match. THAT is a user problem.

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vor 14 Stunden schrieb Meraklija Vujevic:

Completed first season in public beta even I won double in first season with Crystal palace I dont see any good things in beta version.

I collected less points and played more draws with much stronger team then my Norwich save where I won title with 95 points with weaker team.

From my point of view I dont like beta version.

20200125204320_1.jpg

 

Can you share the tactic please?

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30 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Well, there is next to zero central play and through balls, that to me is a broken element of the ME

Eventually marking and defensive positioning are too strong. Eventually they can make a dumber defensive phase (still movements need to be preserved because they are right), otherwise I don't see how can they fix the central play. Fact is that players are superhumans, they don't suffer from fatigue, that's why they always close their man; and perhaps that's why non-pressing tactics aren't feasible in top leagues.

Edited by Tetsuro P12
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17 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Well, there is next to zero central play and through balls, that to me is a broken element of the ME

Sure. Element. Not “completely” broken.

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32 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

Well, there is next to zero central play and through balls, that to me is a broken element of the ME

A lot depends on how you play. There's definite issues around the ME which are beyond the players control (things like penalty conversion), but lots of things that get mentioned can be resolved by not playing in a gung-ho fashion (higher meantalities do seem to cause odd behaviour sometimes and SI should definitely be trying to get a better spread of useful play across the mentalities).  

Just started the 2022/23 season with West Ham - playing 4-2-3-1, so solo striker and AMC. 5 games in, top scorer Haller (PF-A);; most assists Lanzini (AP-S) - generally the feeder ball to Lanzini is coming from one of the two defensive midfielders.  (This is me2026 as the beta me2031 is not available to FMT)

The other goals are coming from the two IF's and involves wing play, but central play can certainly get results.

 

EDIT:  One thing I picked up from the bugs thread about strikers not scoring is that a solo striker works better in either the left or right slot for a two striker system. SI need to investigate why that is, but it made a big difference to my 4-2-3-1.

Edited by rp1966
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6 hours ago, Novem9 said:

Tbh tactic like this shouldn't work at all. It's normal to use exploit tactic for personal fun, but I believe FM is game for adapt realistic (logical) tactics for every match and during match. (Unfortunatelly it doesn't work clear as we want but still)
This is how it works IRL too.
For sure this is not your fault that ME allows for tactics like this to be dominant but I'm afraid developers have no technical feasibility in our days for fix exploits like this. So if you use exploits its beyond of usual feedbacks imo.

The tactic is just an extremely pressing and attacking tactic, with a lot of movement. It should only work with dominantly strong teams, but it works with lesser teams too in FM because the ME highly favors attacking play. Defenses are awful, and counter attacking is not as effective as it should be. FM historically favored attacking play, but in the last two versions it became highly imbalanced. So you are right, it is an exploit.

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6 hours ago, Weller1980 said:

Well, there is next to zero central play and through balls, that to me is a broken element of the ME

That's just not true, it may not be working as well as you'd like but if you set up your team correctly there is plenty. I've had some great results using 2 DM,s one SV with a CM AP - both on attacking mentality. Player traits run through the middle and try killer balls more often. Working fine for me with this set up in a narrow width and no wide men

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb Mantis Toboggan:

Anyone?

Change the primary tactic to managers preferred formation. Using the same tactics as the first team is by default. You can only change this, when you are in charge/manage the other teams. 

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So, on a completely unrelated note to the beta ME or actually the ME at all. How the heck does the AI value their bids? Are there some hidden stats that I'm missing?

I'm seriously getting confused how Ajax, despite performing "horrible", keeps receiving massive offers for their players, while teams coming in for players in my over performing PSV side refuse to even offer the in game value for players (and we all know those values are way too low when playing in smaller nations) and that is if they're even interested. Most of my top talents are just completely ignored so far. Of course that makes squad management super easy since I never have to bother with a single player demanding to leave for a bigger club, but it's nonetheless ridiculous that after 3 seasons, with 3 ED wins and 2 CL semi-finals players like Ihattaren garner 0 interest. This is also with a small database as my laptop can't handle all that much, so it's not as if there are wonderkids all over the place.

Meanwhile though, the AI is head over heels bidding for random players from my reserves that have no game time whatsoever for my first team. While some of these are definitely talented, they're nowhere near what's running around in my first team.

I guess running the other leagues in view only might have something to do with it, but at the same time Ajax are selling their players for far beyond their values shows that it should be possible and with me having higher reputation than Ajax now, far better European performances and a bunch of Eredivisie titles, while Ajax can't even qualify for the CL, you'd think that my players should have more reputation as well. Just as an example, ManCity just bought Taylor from Ajax for €102 million  after he was transfer listed by request. When they came in for Bellingham a couple weeks earlier they offered me whopping ~€60 million and withdrew the bid when I tried negotiating. This while Bellingham is English, younger, already played in 2 CL semi finals and just straight up better. So yeah, what the hell is the AI doing?

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On 24/01/2020 at 20:40, anagain said:

I'm curious how many games you've played to make this assumption. Also, what highlights package do you play on, and do you play a wide formation?

You're entitled to your opinion, but give the game a fair chance and try to add a bit more to your thoughts. Two lines don't really help SI.

Why is it that whenever someone on this forum raises their concerns someone pipes up to question the validity of their claims?? 

This is a feedback thread, and I said I'm unhappy about the amount of set piece goals. Whilst I might not have voiced my concerns in a way that you feel isn't sufficient enough, It's still feedback. Why do I need to add more for SI, and why does it matter how many games I've played or what highlights package I use?

So you know, I've now played almost a full season since the beta was released, and every one of the issues I mentioned still stand. Set piece goals are killing my enjoyment of the game, and whilst I'm satisfied with improvements made it is clear that the match engine is very far from being anywhere near polished.

I also (like many others) feel that the AM role is extremely poor this year. I'm yet to get any form of consistency from my AM regardless of role, and am relying on goals mainly from wide areas. 

Oh, and to clarify, I'm doing well in the league and performing above expectations - so my concerns aren't performance or difficulty related.

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@wattzy @anagain

Nothing wrong with that kind of feedback. If you want to help to improve the game, posting additional information and pkms in the bugs forum are welcome.

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1 hour ago, Freakiie said:

So, on a completely unrelated note to the beta ME or actually the ME at all. How the heck does the AI value their bids? Are there some hidden stats that I'm missing?

I'm seriously getting confused how Ajax, despite performing "horrible", keeps receiving massive offers for their players, while teams coming in for players in my over performing PSV side refuse to even offer the in game value for players (and we all know those values are way too low when playing in smaller nations) and that is if they're even interested. Most of my top talents are just completely ignored so far. Of course that makes squad management super easy since I never have to bother with a single player demanding to leave for a bigger club, but it's nonetheless ridiculous that after 3 seasons, with 3 ED wins and 2 CL semi-finals players like Ihattaren garner 0 interest. This is also with a small database as my laptop can't handle all that much, so it's not as if there are wonderkids all over the place.

Meanwhile though, the AI is head over heels bidding for random players from my reserves that have no game time whatsoever for my first team. While some of these are definitely talented, they're nowhere near what's running around in my first team.

I guess running the other leagues in view only might have something to do with it, but at the same time Ajax are selling their players for far beyond their values shows that it should be possible and with me having higher reputation than Ajax now, far better European performances and a bunch of Eredivisie titles, while Ajax can't even qualify for the CL, you'd think that my players should have more reputation as well. Just as an example, ManCity just bought Taylor from Ajax for €102 million  after he was transfer listed by request. When they came in for Bellingham a couple weeks earlier they offered me whopping ~€60 million and withdrew the bid when I tried negotiating. This while Bellingham is English, younger, already played in 2 CL semi finals and just straight up better. So yeah, what the hell is the AI doing?

Is something really stupid happening? Could it possibly involve a team, player or manager's reputation?

Then that's what it will be.

Reputation is the cancer at the heart of FM.

 

Edited by rp1966
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6 saat önce, bleventozturk said:

The tactic is just an extremely pressing and attacking tactic, with a lot of movement. It should only work with dominantly strong teams, but it works with lesser teams too in FM because the ME highly favors attacking play. Defenses are awful, and counter attacking is not as effective as it should be. FM historically favored attacking play, but in the last two versions it became highly imbalanced. So you are right, it is an exploit.

I'm not sure  tactics or formation is the problem. :)

But as Fenerbahçe possession football against against Kasımpaşa, they did so much counter attacks results 2 goals. I think there is counter attack threat still available under latest beta.

 

For a possession slow tempo central play football as Fenerbahçe I did better than Beşiktaş AI.

 

DOzJ9v.jpg

86q1Q7.jpg

Edited by baris28
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It’s taken me 6 seasons to fine tune a tactic that plays the type of football I want to play, minimises: goals from set pieces and worldy long shots, missed one on ones, wingers running to the near post as if it’s a magnet, defenders heading straight to an attacker, CAM being obsolete and most of the other issues this ME produces. ‘Mostly’ minimised. I don’t have the holy grail.

But, I’m beating the teams I should beat and having close games against the teams better than me or equal. 

I’m finally enjoying myself. I’ve got the ME sussed. Or have I finally got a squad capable of doing exactly what I’m asking of them, that like the cut of my jib, that enjoy playing with each other, that have the right mentality? Precisely. Exactly. For it all to fall into place on the pitch? For my tactic to make sense with everything else I’ve got going on at the club?

Who knows. I’ve spent 5 seasons watching my team slosh through games with all sorts of craziness happening in the ME. I’ve tweaked my tactic(s) over and over again. I’ve played with ligue2 players and world class players. But this season, Pellegri (playing up top on his own, 14 goals so far in 16 games, league leader in goals) scores his penalties, he scores a noticeably high percentage of 1v1’s for me etc etc.

Ive battled through the constant 1v1 misses in my journeyman career, my wingers refusing to cross, my defenders inexplicably heading the ball straight to an attacker, long shot rockets out of nowhere, cross field IDF’s going against me.

But not this season. Not since I’ve honed my tactic, with the players I’ve got.

This is the battle I’ve had with my career and the ME. This is my reality... and even if the ME needs a serious amount of effort to look like football, this is the most realistic experience I’ve had with any FM ... for being a football manager. Not the ME. The game as a whole... and this season ... this includes the ME.

I have had various concerns with the ME, like most here, concerns I’ve voiced and that have been acknowledged by SI. But for the overall experience, and after 6 seasons of battling the ME, I’m finally content with it all.

In fact I’m loving it.

I’m not suggesting the issues with the ME don’t exist. Far from it. But somehow, this season, the stars have aligned and the ME isn’t out to get me anymore.

Happy feedback. Bully for me.

 

 

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2 hours ago, rp1966 said:

Is something really stupid happening? Could it possibly involve a team, player or manager's reputation?

Then that's what it will be.

Reputation is the cancer at the heart of FM.

 

While reputation is to blame for a lot and indeed far too influential in all kinds of random stuff, my club has better reputation than Ajax, we're in the same league, so it can't be league rep and Taylor has less reputation than Bellingham. So even if I try I can't figure out how'd I blame reputation on this one. :idiot:

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I've read through the last 10 pages or so of this thread and agree with the criticisms aimed at FM20 regarding the ME. However, one reoccurring praise I've noticed in this thread is that of the ME of FM17. Maybe I'm being a little naive here, but for the sake of the immediate future of the game can't SI just rerelease the ME of FM17 with certain tweaks to make it compatible with FM20? 

On a positive note I'm enjoying most of the non ME changes and new features for this current edition of the game. Asides from added board interference which just doesn't make sense at times; such as rejecting an offer I accepted for a player I've made clear isn't good enough for my team and I want him out of the club, only for the board to tell me the offer is marginally shy of what they feel he's worth and therefore rejected. And also, the private conversations with a player rarely working out in your favour and so much of the time other players of the team become disgruntled as a result. Other than those couple of minor things the added changes have made the game much more realistic and personal as a 'manager'. 

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29 minutes ago, glenjamin said:

ME of FM17 with certain tweaks to make it compatible with FM20? 

It doesn't work like that unfortunately, the coding for the ME is specific and any tweak can off set something else. I dont know alot about coding so I cant explain it but I remember a mod or someone from the SI saying that its not a revamped ME so bits are probably used from fm17, which? I dont know, quite strange seeing such a massive difference though, guess thats because of making these tweaks.

I'll make one point though, realism in FM17 is somewhat a major downside, dribbles, tackles, interceptions reach levels where you wouldn't expect irl which maybe the route the SI took for 18+ as it seems to be a big deal with statisitcal comparisons. 

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First Game of a new season.

 

Kylian Mbappé has played at STL, I don't think he has ever played AML/AMR when I pick the team and I pick the team something like 99.9% of the 94 matches he has played at the club.

 

"Kylian Mbappé is currently playing as an inverted winger, with some claiming he isn't entirely comfortable there. Will he be carrying on there against Hajduk Split."

 

I think he plays as AML on the French National Team, but it seems really strange if a press conference is confusing his position on the national team with where he plays on my team.

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Not the first and undoubtedly not the last daft/irrelevant question you will get at a press conference.  For the last 2 versions I have delegated this task and am none the worse for getting rid of this.  If only I could do the same with player interaction!

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I just completed a Double, the problem  is I only won one competition, the UEFA Super Cup.

 

For some reason the Spain Super Cup is being counted in the wrong season, I won it last season, since the UEFA Super Cup is the first "real" match of the season, I've not entered the Spain Super Cup or even played the first league match yet.

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I have a player complaining about not enough quickness training during the season, but now during pre-season he is complaining about to much quickness training.

 

I don't get how the same player can complain about too much and too little at the same time. The training system isn't detailed enough for this kind of idiotic player reaction, it's hard enough just dealing with training demands, now I have to find some small window, with ZERO data to help me create a training schedule that is enough but not to much.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Don't want to go trudging through each page, just want to find out the general consensus. Is the Beta ME superior to the older official build or is it worse? 

Subjective, but I'd say generally better however not significantly enough to enjoy if you didn't like the previous build. 

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3 hours ago, WelshMourinho said:

There's just too many 'random' goals. I know they're not random per se, I'm just not sure what a better term would be. Like you could have prime Maldini in your backline,but if he's the defender on the far post when there's a throw in at the byline, you can guarantee he's getting brutalised when the ball comes in. There's just nothing you can learn from it. The same with corners, there's only so much you can do with instructions. 

How are you even supposed to judge your tactic properly when the game can't even emphasise it's weaknesses? 

This nails my feeling toward the game. It's not so much ME errors or flaws, but how disconnected it feels to tactics or attributes. 

I want to review the game and witness my slow fullback getting continually burnt by a pacey winger, then adapting by dropping deeper. Subbing in a bigger CB to deal with an aerial threat. Utilising an older playmaker to make the most of the space in midfield, but at the cost of more defensive exposure. 

These are the decisions I want to have to make, but at the moment I genuinely cannot distinguish neither teams or players. It's a game of attrition where you stay tight and compress the ball into areas more likely to return goals. 

Makes it very difficult to build any affinity to a player or team when they all lack any sense of individuality. 

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Quick question: Does playing super pressing, high tempo style cause your players to get more tired than the opposition? I may be wrong, but to me it looks like it does not have any effect (or not significant effect), which just doesn't make any sense. You shouldn't be able to play that style for the entire 90 minutes, and if you try, your players should be dropping dead after 60-70 minutes. Is there any physical/stamina consequence?

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12 часов назад, Mantis Toboggan сказал:
В 25.01.2020 в 20:27, Mantis Toboggan сказал:

How do i get my B team and youth teams to stop copying First Team tactics?

Anyone?

It's simple

 

Image 1.png

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11 часов назад, Freakiie сказал:

So, on a completely unrelated note to the beta ME or actually the ME at all. How the heck does the AI value their bids? Are there some hidden stats that I'm missing?

I'm seriously getting confused how Ajax, despite performing "horrible", keeps receiving massive offers for their players, while teams coming in for players in my over performing PSV side refuse to even offer the in game value for players (and we all know those values are way too low when playing in smaller nations) and that is if they're even interested. Most of my top talents are just completely ignored so far. Of course that makes squad management super easy since I never have to bother with a single player demanding to leave for a bigger club, but it's nonetheless ridiculous that after 3 seasons, with 3 ED wins and 2 CL semi-finals players like Ihattaren garner 0 interest. This is also with a small database as my laptop can't handle all that much, so it's not as if there are wonderkids all over the place.

Meanwhile though, the AI is head over heels bidding for random players from my reserves that have no game time whatsoever for my first team. While some of these are definitely talented, they're nowhere near what's running around in my first team.

I guess running the other leagues in view only might have something to do with it, but at the same time Ajax are selling their players for far beyond their values shows that it should be possible and with me having higher reputation than Ajax now, far better European performances and a bunch of Eredivisie titles, while Ajax can't even qualify for the CL, you'd think that my players should have more reputation as well. Just as an example, ManCity just bought Taylor from Ajax for €102 million  after he was transfer listed by request. When they came in for Bellingham a couple weeks earlier they offered me whopping ~€60 million and withdrew the bid when I tried negotiating. This while Bellingham is English, younger, already played in 2 CL semi finals and just straight up better. So yeah, what the hell is the AI doing?

There are tricky system. When your players are good, their price is bigger. But in fact this is temporary increase of value. In past AI didn't understand this and for example PSG was my investor in FM17 :D 
But SI improved AI management. + I believe AI take into account a fact about if one player good in one club/system this is no gurantee that he will be the same in next. 

Very interesting to check Ajax's guy for 102m and your with AI's offer for 60m.

I'm one of members who asked SI for improving AI management (with some shared examples for sure) and SI done imo

Edited by Novem9
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2 минуты назад, janrzm сказал:

Got to admit for a second there I thought Vertonghen and Alderweireld were just going to pass to each other for the remaining 20 seconds! :lol:

Nice build up and goal.

lol :lol:

- You start attack!
- No you!

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shame the long term aspect of the game seems to be broken. ive seen videos online where they create players with great pot and mental stats and determination and the players dont develop at all. and yet the game still has them playing for england while they have rubbish stats which makes no sense.

ive got players onloan and they just dont develop at all. players at other clubs dont develop at all. 

with the game selling the long term aspect of the game as the main thing this year surely they should have made sure the long term side worked first ??

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With this beta patch I have found that the team goes very slow with any style of play whether you use tiki taka or gegenpress matches you can make 40 throws but it will never score. I hope that an update will be released at the end of January that improves the situation by waiting for the 3.0 update of March.

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On ‎26‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 05:06, Bry said:

Have you tried this? When I offer a player to clubs, I choose the 'Selling Team Wage Contribution' as an additional clause, then select 'Remove and exclude from negotiation'. 

image.thumb.png.6dca2b2485f0b90ac9dee378c4855b89.png

doesn't always work, many times offered players with this set and still get clubs wanting you to pay X amount of the wage

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7 minutes ago, Crusho79bv said:

Any news on an update for the ME before the March patch?

Would be nice to have an update, the ME is broken.

Thank you and hope to get an official reply.

 

Spare yourself the frustration and wait for FM21. And don't pre-order.

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I hadn't noticed the over reliance of set-pieces for goals but I did find it odd beating a team 6-0 with Niklas Sule scoring 4 of them 

For me this is the biggest problem with the ME now. Playing in the Vanarama National League and the rest of the ME is actually pretty good I think. It does need work, but its not broken! I do get central play, I get through balls and my striker is scoring between 20 and 30 goals per season (3 star rating). I think it's difficult to get the AMC working properly, and most of the central play is created by my MC's, but its still there, and the team reacts to tactical instructions. 

But the set pieces, especially indirect free kicks are way too deadly IMO. I concede quite a lot, but also scoring a bunch! Also there is a bug where players change their position on defensive corners (Yes mods, I have created a bug report on it :D).

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6 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Quick question: Does playing super pressing, high tempo style cause your players to get more tired than the opposition? I may be wrong, but to me it looks like it does not have any effect (or not significant effect), which just doesn't make any sense. You shouldn't be able to play that style for the entire 90 minutes, and if you try, your players should be dropping dead after 60-70 minutes. Is there any physical/stamina consequence?

I haven't noticed any effect from pressing.

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I'd like to ask if any of these issues is reported and under review of SI, because I can't find it in bugs section:

- way too many headers over the bar (even from players with good heading attribute)

- Throw in resulting in offside from the throwing player (he throws the ball to the teammate, who immidiately passes it back)  - insane amount of such situations

- Players with PI's like "cut inside", "play narrower" etc. constantly refuse to do what they have in instructions and move with the ball to the wing, trying to cross with weaker foot...

-... blocked crosses like in FM19 - players waiting too long with a cross and getting blocked 

 

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb szp:

I'd like to ask if any of these issues is reported and under review of SI, because I can't find it in bugs section:

- way too many headers over the bar (even from players with good heading attribute)

- Throw in resulting in offside from the throwing player (he throws the ball to the teammate, who immidiately passes it back)  - insane amount of such situations

- Players with PI's like "cut inside", "play narrower" etc. constantly refuse to do what they have in instructions and move with the ball to the wing, trying to cross with weaker foot...

-... blocked crosses like in FM19 - players waiting too long with a cross and getting blocked 

 

Please post this in the bugs forum and add pkms.

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4 minutes ago, szp said:

I'd like to ask if any of these issues is reported and under review of SI, because I can't find it in bugs section:

- way too many headers over the bar (even from players with good heading attribute)

- Throw in resulting in offside from the throwing player (he throws the ball to the teammate, who immidiately passes it back)  - insane amount of such situations

- Players with PI's like "cut inside", "play narrower" etc. constantly refuse to do what they have in instructions and move with the ball to the wing, trying to cross with weaker foot...

-... blocked crosses like in FM19 - players waiting too long with a cross and getting blocked 

 

Most if not all those issues were raised on the normal bug forum

https://community.sigames.com/forum/739-match-engine-ai-and-tactics/

Edited by Tiger666
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From the 2 ME's we can play right not, live and BETA i enjoy the live ME more. I played both in parallel but Live seems more fun. In BETA the matches seem a bit dull and the goals per game is lower although the shot count by big teams seems higher than usual ( frequently they end with 30+ shots per game ).

 

All in all from the 2 ME's available i would say that Live is 6.5/10 and Beta is 6/10.

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36 minutes ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

With all of this talk of the 2017 ME - was it genuinely wonderful or is it just in comparison to this one?

I'm considering going back to it but feel it might just be rose tinted spectacles and an annoyance at the current game that's resulting in the glowing praise for the old game. Surely it had some major flaws too?

Try it for yourself and make your own mind up

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17 minutes ago, andu1 said:

From the 2 ME's we can play right not, live and BETA i enjoy the live ME more. I played both in parallel but Live seems more fun. In BETA the matches seem a bit dull and the goals per game is lower although the shot count by big teams seems higher than usual ( frequently they end with 30+ shots per game ).

 

All in all from the 2 ME's available i would say that Live is 6.5/10 and Beta is 6/10.

Oh no. I hate when results look always like 80's Italy. I can to a point tolerate some of the issues of the ME as long as teams are able to score 3, 4, 5, 6 goals every now and then.

Edited by Nil14
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