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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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So FM20 is the first new version of the game I've bought since 17- not through choice, I just didn't have a powerful enough computer to make it work. This season I bought myself a new laptop with the express plan of having some significant FM time. Unfortunately life somewhat got in the way and now I'm just getting into the game and I've got to say I'm pretty...meh.

There are some nice changes, graphically the game looks better, I like the dynamics and hierarchy elements and the tactics creator is a nice touch.

However...

- The dev center- it took me ages to find my u23's and u18's as a fairly important part of the game is hidden under one menu at the bottom of the sidebar. Not a fan.

- Scouting- previously when I asked my scouts to look at certain players I got a message saying it had started and updates each time the player was watched/when the assignment was finished. I don't get these now, instead they are burried in the 'scouting meetings' which is mainly me dismissing irrelevant players I've got minimal interest in.  I quite like the way these are grouped but if I've specifically asked my scouts to look at a certain player then I want updates to my inbox, not those just being tucked away with everyone else.

- The match engine- it isn't a good sign that I'm barely out of preseason and I'm already concerned at how repetitive the match engine is. Every game I give up 2 or 3 chances where a long punt plays a striker in with acres of space. Player decision making, particularity on the wings is infuriating. Some of the set ups for defending set pieces are baffling. 

So I'm a bit underwhelmed right now.

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What if change mentality for tactical styles? I know there is no time to test and integrate in 20.3 but for next editions - FM21 and later. I asked about mentality changes as some members too but this is concrete idea. Every mentality has specific rules and behavior, template for every line/position. But mentality based on risks and we already discussed about dual meaning of every mentality based on risks. 

Every tactical style has specific description and basis, so its no chance for dual meaning and any type of confusing.

We have the list of styles since FM19 and every AI manager has his favourite style in profile too, so its already linked. 

 

upd - And I really dislike current AI tactical decisions during match.
For example I play vs team which manager plays direct counter style. His mentality cautious. But if I win 1-0 in last minutes AI change his mentality for positive/attacking or even very attacking. I see a certain contradiction in this. AI's mentality switch killed his link for tactical style imo

Edited by Novem9

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Will there be an update for this public beta ME so that we can test  whether all the bugs that been reported have been fixed?

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2 hours ago, fidelitywars said:

One thousand times this. Everything outside of the ME, especially the database, is great but watching the same tedious, repetitive, soporific game time after time is just agony and completely ruins the game.

The reason for this is because it is repetitive and the patterns of play are similar across all teams. The variety has been killed. I don't know what happened from FM 19 onwards but I would bet significant change has been made to the ME post FM 18 (which isn't that great itself either). It's become rigid and it feels like you are fighting the ME  to do what you want most of the time in these iterations.

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1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

upd - And I really dislike current AI tactical decisions during match.
For example I play vs team which manager plays direct counter style. His mentality cautious. But if I win 1-0 in last minutes AI change his mentality for positive/attacking or even very attacking. I see a certain contradiction in this. AI's mentality switch killed his link for tactical style imo

This is completely natural. A team that is losing with 10 mins to go, will always look to push forward and play more attacking to try get a result. The only circumstance where a team would continue to play cautious would be over two legs.

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Just now, Major Raver said:

Just an idea.  Stick the FM17 match engine into the current game, and Si have built a classic on and off the pitch :)

 

This is THE wet dream, isn't it ?! Too good to be true. It is frustrating, as FM evolved a lot, especially in FM19 and FM20. I like the features, even though the UI / UX are not the best (to say the least), but overall is very good nontheless.

The problem is that in terms of ME, FM17 is leaps and bounds ahead. Yes, FM20 has much better animations, superb cut-backs (things you don't really see in FM17), BUT the movement on and off the ball is atrocious, the variety is non-eistent, defences are way way too narrow, playmakers are as useless as a car without wheels, etc. There are so many things wrong, I don't have the patience to actually put them all down. The question is: Are the extra features outside of the ME of FM20 warrant playing the game over FM17 or FM18 (which don't have as many features, but superb MEs). Nobody can answer this question, but you. Personally, I don't mind playing with an out-of-date database at all, so I play FM17 and FM18 every day and I am getting so much joy from those 2 editions. 

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14 минут назад, Luizinho сказал:

This is completely natural. A team that is losing with 10 mins to go, will always look to push forward and play more attacking to try get a result. The only circumstance where a team would continue to play cautious would be over two legs.

I think they need to do this in keeping of their main mentality. This is a possible thing

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I would like to ask moderators if further updates will be released shortly for this beta public so we can participate in the feadbacks to see the progress in resolving the bugs. Or we should use this current version until the full pacht is released. Thank you

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The public beta feels just like FM19 without the side netting shots but we're back to the long shot goals and neglected striker. I've worked back in my FM19 tactic and it's playing exactly the same. 

In one sense I'm happy the match engine in the public beta is in an enjoyable state and I can actually get through a few games but really this FM seems like a total write off if it's January 2020 and I feel like I'm playing the same game as last year

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1 hour ago, Kirariuk said:

I would like to ask moderators if further updates will be released shortly for this beta public so we can participate in the feadbacks to see the progress in resolving the bugs. Or we should use this current version until the full pacht is released. Thank you

Unfortunately as moderators we have no more information than you. I would encourage reporting of the bugs to the beta forum if you come across any, and either an update to the public beta will be released or a full patch when it is ready. 

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3 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

 

ME is king for me. It's why I've gone back to FM17 this week and started a new save there. Sure, the DB is out of date by a few years but I can live with that seeing as I'm playing lower league anyway. The ME is night and day to what we have in 20 (And 19 tbf). It's actually fun and enjoyable to watch and play which I can't say the same for FM20 with the current state of that ME which makes playing and watching games a complete chore and drag as it's so one dimensional, lack of variety and as someone mentioned above, feels like you're fighting against the ME to get what you want from it, in terms of results and play style. 

Thinking of going back myself and looking for an updated database for it.   Sad thing was I really enjoyed the demo of FM20, wasn't as good as some, but I had fun, all went downhill when the first ME update came.

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12 hours ago, FrazT said:

Interestingly I have just had a similar situation in my own save-  A 28 year-old Swedish international early in his contract, established first team regular and happy- valued at 14M and just received a bid of 6.5M for him- what??  Immediately after I received a bid for a 21 year old, just prompted from the reserves with a big potential but no first team experience- valued at 750K and the bid was for 18M??  I nearly fell of my chair.!  The low bid was from an Eastern European club and the high bid form the EPL.

Thats how I got out of debt with Bolton

 

AI offers a lot of money for unproven young players. I mean all of them "were stars" that were developed and I sold for exampe 700k value for 10 millions. I sold 5/6 of those and none of them developed all were crap. It happens if for example a 17 year old has 100 ability and 110 potential. The AI is fooled by his high ability at that age and overpays thinking it will become a great player but he is just 110/120 player

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2 hours ago, Major Raver said:

Just an idea.  Stick the FM17 match engine into the current game, and Si have built a classic on and off the pitch :)

 

Easy to say, hard to be done, but if it was possible holy cow this game would rise massively (in ME terms that is) 

 

21 minutes ago, Major Raver said:

Thinking of going back myself and looking for an updated database for it.   Sad thing was I really enjoyed the demo of FM20, wasn't as good as some, but I had fun, all went downhill when the first ME update came.

Done some digging for quite a while and not found anything beyond 2017/18 season, even if you found a solid database, you'd most likely pay the creator who'd probably charge a bit considering how far it's been since release. If you find one thats recent for free or low price then could you let me know? thanks. 

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25 minutes ago, BigV said:

Easy to say, hard to be done, but if it was possible holy cow this game would rise massively (in ME terms that is) 

 

Done some digging for quite a while and not found anything beyond 2017/18 season, even if you found a solid database, you'd most likely pay the creator who'd probably charge a bit considering how far it's been since release. If you find one thats recent for free or low price then could you let me know? thanks. 

Found one on Sortitoutsi on the forums, for FM17

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4 hours ago, Kirariuk said:

I would like to ask moderators if further updates will be released shortly for this beta public so we can participate in the feadbacks to see the progress in resolving the bugs. Or we should use this current version until the full pacht is released. Thank you

We don't know, because we aren't staff, and don't have any special insider information. All mods are just volunteers who enjoy the game and community and were asked by SI to help out on the forum, so we'll find out about a patch being released when the rest of the playerbase does.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb Harrymcintyre:

Hey guys, what would be ‘best of the rest’ actually mean, in the club vision? 

There are usually some top teams who dominate a league. And the rest. In England would that mean a 6th or 7th place, in Austria a second or third, all depending on how many top teams are in a league. 

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52 minutes ago, KUBI said:

There are usually some top teams who dominate a league. And the rest. In England would that mean a 6th or 7th place, in Austria a second or third, all depending on how many top teams are in a league. 

Ok, thanks for clarifying that 

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I follow this guy's videos right now because he is the only one that I know using the public beta. 

Check out the goal at around 24:20. A great through ball, which you would never see in FM 19. This gives me hope for the final patch. The ME is definitely not flowing like FM 17 did, but all I want is some form of central play in final third, because the rest of the game will ensure that I will enjoy FM 20 for many months.

Edited by bleventozturk

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What on Earth is this all about?

Scene setting:

1. The transfer window opened today,

2. I just lost a number of players that were either moving on as agreed, out of contract or whose loans had ended. Numbers are down.

I get this in my inbox (morale is after chat)

04_Bangor_Idiotplayersunhappy.thumb.png.35bdf2ed5a0cfb62a9b743ed9861277b.png

Luckily the issue didn't become a major pain in the backside. As soon as I told them I was making efforts to improve the squad (and I am) they were happy.

It doesn't take a brain of bloody Britain to realise that the manager needs time, that players have left and that things can change.

I know no harm was done, but are players in FM all the intellectual level of a grasshopper, or is this a bug?

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1 minute ago, anagain said:

What on Earth is this all about?

Scene setting:

1. The transfer window opened today,

2. I just lost a number of players that were either moving on as agreed, out of contract or whose loans had ended. Numbers are down.

I get this in my inbox (morale is after chat)

04_Bangor_Idiotplayersunhappy.thumb.png.35bdf2ed5a0cfb62a9b743ed9861277b.png

Luckily the issue didn't become a major pain in the backside. As soon as I told them I was making efforts to improve the squad (and I am) they were happy.

It doesn't take a brain of bloody Britain to realise that the manager needs time, that players have left and that things can change.

I know no harm was done, but are players in FM all the intellectual level of a grasshopper, or is this a bug?

Lol. Intellectual level of a grasshopper. Brilliant. And yes. Yes they are. They’re footballers ;)

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vor 1 Minute schrieb anagain:

What on Earth is this all about?

Scene setting:

1. The transfer window opened today,

2. I just lost a number of players that were either moving on as agreed, out of contract or whose loans had ended. Numbers are down.

I get this in my inbox (morale is after chat)

04_Bangor_Idiotplayersunhappy.thumb.png.35bdf2ed5a0cfb62a9b743ed9861277b.png

Luckily the issue didn't become a major pain in the backside. As soon as I told them I was making efforts to improve the squad (and I am) they were happy.

It doesn't take a brain of bloody Britain to realise that the manager needs time, that players have left and that things can change.

I know no harm was done, but are players in FM all the intellectual level of a grasshopper, or is this a bug?

The golden rule is: If you ask if this is a bug it is most probably something the coders should look into it. So please post it in the bugs forum.

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41 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I follow this guy's videos right now because he is the only one that I know using the public beta. 

Check out the goal at around 24:20. A great through ball, which you would never see in FM 19. This gives me hope for the final patch. The ME is definitely not flowing like FM 17 did, but all I want is some form of central play in final third, because the rest of the game will ensure that I will enjoy FM 20 for many months.

Nice to see, but the players aren't running - they're all skating. I know it's always been an issue, but I'm sure it's worse than ever.

We need to see that the players are actually in contact with the sodding ground for it to be believable.

It would be nice to see players pushing into the turf to change direction, or at least have their legs keep up with the speed of their glide to stop all this moon-walking.

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I think the apparent lack of central play is down at least partly to tactics, as I am getting several goals through the middle (mainly one of my strikers assisting the other via a through ball), as well as one or two of the same type scored against me. They are certainly not slick tippy-tappy type goals like FM 17, but with sufficient space to exploit I think goals can definitely be scored down the middle. 

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I definitely stopped playing until you fixed the bug with the set pieces

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3 minutes ago, Nick_CB said:

I definitely stopped playing until you fixed the bug with the set pieces

Can you confirm if this has been reported and acknowledged in the Bugs forum?

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I've been playing the Public Beta ME for about 60 matches. 1 full season in and a few games elsewhere. I'll have videos of it as I've used it for my youtube saves but they probably won't be out until Monday (for anyone interested in seeing more ME in action).

I have mixed feelings. First of all I was okay with the ME before the public beta. So I wasn't calling for massive changes anyway. A few things to tweak but generally I was enjoying the ME beforehand.

 

To put things into context under the old ME I had gained promotion. I started the new season under the public beta ME. I more or less had the same squad bar my keeper. My 1st choice keeper got poached 7 days before the start of the season so I had to bring in a replacement who was rated as being almost as good as the original. I was predicted to finish pretty much bottom.

I actually won the title and did it with the 3rd best goals for, and the best goals against. I conceded less than a goal a game, and score around 1.5 goals per game.  I had 3 strikers, one finished with 30 goals, one with 24 and one with 15. One on ones were a little easier to score, through balls over my defence dried up, saw a lot more blocking, a few more goals from set pieces and a few more defender mistakes where they keep the ball on and then run past it. Nothing that hasn't been reported by others, and to be honest nothing game breaking on its own.

My issue is though that combined, especially the long balls over the top being toned down, I was able to perform that well with such an under powered squad. I am below average, or have the lowest average for almost all the attributes in the team comparison page. I didn't even have the best defence the season before when I was in the league below. The toning down of the long balls basically meant my high line high press had almost zero downside. I think the public ME is playable and it's fine. I've not seen anything that will stop me from playing. I just think it has swung balance in a different direction. It's still not 100% it's just made it a bit easier.

 

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54 minutos atrás, FrazT disse:

Você pode confirmar se isso foi relatado e reconhecido no fórum de Bugs?

I think not, even because this has been commented for some time by multiple players and was not on the beta public patch list :(

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26 minutos atrás, GOODNAME disse:

Alguém mais notou uma quantidade enorme de penalidades? 

Many penalty, fouls, tackles and corners. I particularly think it's very exaggerated

Edited by Nick_CB

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40 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

Anyone else have notice huge amount of penalties? 

I've had a single penalty in about 15 matches, so no.

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Only played two games but it's certainly different.

Pressing feels a bit odd, even though my mentality is positive and I have high line and high engagement, after a short oppo goal kick things go weird, the d line stays put and I only get one midfielder run out about 100 miles and try to press. It may be the player roles etc, but it seems weird, sometimes everything sort of stops while opposition have the ball in their half after a goal kick.

Liking the wide play, no longer does it seem that a player will stop and wait to be closed down to kick it into the shins and out for a corner. No more short corners played back to the taker for an offside.

Balls over the top seem to have gone right down, had 1 clear one on one in 2 matches and that came from a surging run, not a through ball. It was saved by the keeper but it seemed plausible taking into mind the angle , speed of the run, etc. Goalmouth action does seem a little more realistic. 

The game still doesn't flow as I'd like, but I think the engine is a decent step in the right direction.

I noticed just now that my board gave me an F because a signing cost too much, yet I delegated the buying and contact offering to the chairman. Classic Levy, blaming the manager for his shortcomings.

 

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23 minutes ago, gechal said:

Liking the wide play, no longer does it seem that a player will stop and wait to be closed down to kick it into the shins and out for a corner

See, this is one of the things that make FM so frustrating. I'm seeing nothing but crosses into the defender's shins although, rather than a corner, they usually result in a rapid counter and a goal for the AI :seagull:. Someone said it in this thread a couple of weeks ago, but it's as if *everyone* gets a different ME!

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Why is defending throw in STILL pathetic? Its been up in the air for the last 3 fms

Its a joke, even the attacking throw ins don't follow the instructions

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On 22/01/2020 at 11:28, themadsheep2001 said:

Tbf, every time Neil tries to post any kind of update in here, a bunch of users will take it upon themselves to batter him, and the happened when they started an ME updates thread, had to be locked. To get that engagement, you've to have that arena to do it. Even today, recommending people use the beta as way to engage sets people off. It's not for nothing we say the more toxic the forums get the less devs engage. It goes both ways. You need more chat coming from SI, but you also need better reception from users. Without the two, it doesn't work, as we've seen since November

Thankfully, I think people that engage in the negative manner you describe towards SI staff are the exception and not the rule. Absolutely, there's no place for that.

That said, I'm not talking specifically about SI engaging in a back and forth with users as the benefits are limited and the pitfalls are obvious as mentioned above. The point I was specifically making was about a more detailed acknowledgement of issues once raised and some kind of public monitoring/updating of whats actually being looked at. At present I'd describe the reporting process as highly unsatisfactory from a customer perspective. A situation thats been exasperated to some degree this year by the more significant issues with the ME.

I actually think it would go a long way this year if someone just held up their hand and said, you know what, this years ME release could have been better and we're going to make sure we're better next time round. Instead, I think what we're left with is a situation where the "customer" almost feels like you're whinging about stuff that the developer doesn't see as a significant issue. In a football sense, I feel like a Man Utd fan which is a feeling I absolutely don't want......:lol:

 

Edited by janrzm

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A Locked thread with list of Things are under consideration and list of things which devs feel are fixed might help the Fan base to give an idea of what is happening. 

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I feel like I've pointed out way to many flaws in FM for years now... So at some point I must run out of new idiotic bugs...

 

After Barcelona vs Granada's real world game, I was going to try to modify a 4-2-4 Wide into something like Barca used in that match, now the game doesn't really support much of what Barca did, but I tried to just try something and added a 3-1-2-4 Wide DM tactics and now I lost the locker room because all the players think we have too few defenders... I have 4 World Class Defenders on the Senior team and 3-4 La Liga Level backups on the B team, not that it matters since the game is stupidly broken and can't actually see the B team players, even while they have no problem seeing reserve players in leagues without B teams.

 

I've played 1 or 2 matches with this 3 defender tactics, it's NOT our main tactics, so seems extremely stupid I'm suddenly in massive trouble with the entire team for not having enough central defenders. I was actually thinking I needed to sell 2-3 defenders, because I simply couldn't keep up with playing time demands.

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3 hours ago, Miravlix said:

I... I tried to just try something and added a 3-1-2-4 Wide DM tactics and now I lost the locker room because all the players think we have too few defenders... I have 4 World Class Defenders on the Senior team and 3-4 La Liga Level backups on the B team, not that it matters since the game is stupidly broken and can't actually see the B team players, even while they have no problem seeing reserve players in leagues without B teams.

 

I play FMT rather than the full game, so don't see issues like this, but that really doesn't sound appropriate.  The only thing that should constrain the player's choice of tactics is results.

For an off-field game mechanic to try to force you change tactics is not at all reasonable. If SI want to have the Assistant Manager or player suggest that you'd be better with more defenders is fine, but to generate a locker room revolt that effectively tries to stop you playing the tactics you want is going too far.

(I realise the game is probably looking at it from the other direction - formation has x defenders; squad needs x+n defenders, but if the effect of such mechanics is to try to dictate to the player how they play, then it needs a rethink.)

Edited by rp1966

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6 hours ago, warlock said:

See, this is one of the things that make FM so frustrating. I'm seeing nothing but crosses into the defender's shins although, rather than a corner, they usually result in a rapid counter and a goal for the AI :seagull:. Someone said it in this thread a couple of weeks ago, but it's as if *everyone* gets a different ME!

My post was from a very small sample size, one game against mediocre opposition, and one against truly a terrible team. Pre season. 

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how is it possible to get an AMC performing well? I have Havertz but he is like useless.

 

its really frustrating.

Edited by KiLLu12258

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24 minutes ago, KiLLu12258 said:

how is it possible to get an AMC performing well? I have Havertz but he is like useless.

 

its really frustrating.

agreed, unable to get any decent rating from my AMC. Had mine set to SS for a few games which he was more involved but not much better

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1 hour ago, KiLLu12258 said:

how is it possible to get an AMC performing well? I have Havertz but he is like useless.

 

its really frustrating.

I've not been able to get any AMC working well. Gave up on the position and went 4-3-3 in the end.

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1 ora fa, KiLLu12258 ha scritto:

how is it possible to get an AMC performing well? I have Havertz but he is like useless.

 

its really frustrating.

I think that the main reason Is that all tactical style even the extreme tiki-taka are actually direct/long ball so we have the AMC that is cut of by this. 

I play with tiki-taka, standard or positive mentality, shortest pass, but CD try often long balls even with 3 free man near them and when they pass to the DMD regista half the time he pass back to them and they try long balls.. (I don't try the beta yet)

 

Edited by FlorianAlbert9

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19 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

I've not been able to get any AMC working well. Gave up on the position and went 4-3-3 in the end.

Yep I dropped my 4-2-3-1 and went back to 4-1-4-1 because of the amc

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I applaud the initiative by SI to reintroduce the public beta in an attempt to engage with the community. I do remain skeptical of how useful it's going to be when trying to resolve issues within the match engine.

I say this because it's good that everyone who is taking part posts what they see as being wrong but unless they also post what the correct behaviour should be then we are left with decisions on how the ME should evolve being based on interpretation. There needs to be some objective truths on how things should work otherwise we are going to continue repeating this perpetual cycle of attempting to fix one issue only for another equally damaging issue to crop up elsewhere. You can see a catalogue of this happening over the last few years.

The cycle has to be broken somehow and having a unified vision of how the ME should work would help to solve a lot of the issues.

Does SI still have football experts advising them on tactics and the match engine? I know they had consultation about training but I'm not sure whether this still happens for those other aspects. I think the best acid test for SI would be getting a range of current coaches to play the game and provide their feedback although I appreciate how difficult that could be to set up.

I also think that trying to create a match engine which matches real life statistics is misguided in the sense that you can create a match engine which correlates very well with the real life statistics but doesn't necessarily produce a coherent or fun ME experience. It should work the other way around, you create a ME which produces realistic outcomes owing to the way it's built rather than creating a ME which doesn't produce realistic outcomes and then hoping to 'fix' it by nerfing it so that it matches real life statistics (poor one on one conversion rates being a good example of this). 

I find the navel-gazing about the ME in FM17 from some posters in this thread rather bizarre though. Feel free to enjoy whatever version of the ME you liked the most (it's a game so you should be having fun playing it) but to suggest that somehow that version of the ME is the gold standard and that everything would be better if SI just ported that version into FM20 is quite frankly, ridiculous, in my opinion. Having played that ME extensively it was full of bugs like any other ME that has ever been released and I for one would not welcome SI going backwards when trying to figure out how to improve the current version. I want SI to be forward looking and innovative not archaic and reminiscing about a glorious past which in effect wasn't all that glorious unless you are looking at it with rose tinted glasses.

Best Regards

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