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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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6 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

Well a lot of the bugs are still present from the main game so threads have been carried on in the main bug forum. Otherwise we're just duplicating threads.

I'm well aware, and I wouldn't be encouraging more people to be doing it if plenty were doing it already. People can take it or leave it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the late start of the public beta this year wasn't linked to the overall low level of feedback from last year's public beta. @Jack Joyce will probably hate me for this but please keep chucking more things for the team to look at. 

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Is it possible to use custom database (like for example pr0 Update) when starting a game on public beta? 

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10 minutes ago, sidslayer said:

Lol. Apologies for the unintentional spam.

Haha not sure which one to reply to! Some are, plenty aren't. It's not a requirement by any means, but this is where you have the most impact and best level of input and say too. Personally think the public beta should run from the start like it did in FM19, but it only works if you're getting as many people as possible buying in. They absolutely do read all this

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Just one thing for those from PB: once you're in private beta you decided to help spotting issues. You accepted to get involved in the process uploading pkm if necessary, savegames or screenshots. Nobody forced you, it was your choice and only yours.

So now that you wanted to attend the ballet, you're expected to dance :)

Second: if you suspect there's an issue or a bug, whatever it belongs to, report it. Don't waste time asking if you should. Do it. It won't hurt anyone.

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22 minutes ago, Icy said:

What was this? imho very wrong decission by my trequartista, that should either run and try to drible or try to play one on twos with any of the two forwards or to hold the ball waiting for the team mates.

Worth uploading pkm?

 

What was your tempo in your tactic at that moment? But yeah some bad central playing and decision there. :/ And pass to wbr(?) was bad too :/

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vor 19 Minuten schrieb szp:

Is it possible to use custom database (like for example pr0 Update) when starting a game on public beta? 

Yes, you can use any kind of third party dbs.

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25 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

There is probably a reason for that, and that reasons are stated here, raised at the public beta subforum (lack of goals, lack of central play, too effective defending and bus parking, tripping over the ball, high number of tackles, card problems, repetitive ME, unbalance of attributes), and most people that took their time to actually post feedback stopped playing fm because of these things, including me. So instead of playing the game, i've collected real world data about who and against who is scoring how much, highlighted the problem in the public beta and compared it to fm stats, and i wasn't the only one to do that, so it's not a singular problem. It shouldn't take a lot to sim one season, see the scorers and acknowledge the problem, see that these things are systematic problems and that are connected with teams sitting deep effective regardless of quality. I can't do much other than that, nor do i have the resources, and there isn't even a mark on that thread that it is under review, or that it needs more info. Blaming the customers for obvious things that have been reported not only on fm20 beta, not only on fm20, and that don't have the resources and are volunteering, doing SI job that should have been done in november is not a good move. If SI need any info, they can also ask for data, make their own threads, asking people to submit their data, but no, that isn't happening.

No one is blaming anyone for anything. People wanted a public beta, here it is. But it can't be much of a public beta if people don't get involved. People don't have to get involved, but they can't complain much if the public beta doesn't appear next FM because no one got involved. Lots of people have been clamouring for more engagement with and from SI. This is your chance for those who asked. I'm just saying we should all be making the most of it. 

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1 hour ago, Icy said:

What was this? imho very wrong decission by my trequartista, that should either run and try to drible or try to play one on twos with any of the two forwards or to hold the ball waiting for the team mates.

Worth uploading pkm?

 

I've seen strikers do that from the penalty spot!

But let me guess, next "pass" was then a pinpoint Crossfield ball with the weaker foot to the opposite wide man?

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51 minuti fa, Mr Tonio ha scritto:

Not quite, some people just downloaded the beta engine out of pure exasperation in the hope of getting a less messy ME and a more enjoyable playing experience. That ought to be expected.

Then some people have misunderstood the whole thing I'm afraid.

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@themadsheep2001 So what you are saying is that they release a public beta and the people that opts in to it is to lazy to even report their findings?

Thats bloody great, then we will have the same ********* again after the next patch is release, people are coming here complaining this and that aint fixed, menawhile there is some lousy 130 threads in bug/feedback forum. Splendid then we know not to expect to much from this update either :(

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1 hour ago, Icy said:

What was this? imho very wrong decission by my trequartista, that should either run and try to drible or try to play one on twos with any of the two forwards or to hold the ball waiting for the team mates.

Worth uploading pkm?

 

100%. I'd argue one of those strikers should be making a run (what roles do they have?) but he's got to go forwards, he's already entered the most dangerous zone on the pitch. 

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1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

All the things people are complaining about in here already have threads in the normal bug forum. We can't be expected to start more threads in the beta bug forum about the exact same issues. Plenty of threads in the normal bug forum have been bumped to say the issues are still there in the beta.

 

We're on different version with various changes to the match engine between them, hence why its good to get updates and reports from the latest version. And the more the better 👍

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I think the two sides are expecting different things here.

SI seem to want another beta process of wading through errors and bugs, reporting it and coming up with various examples to report your findings.

Customers were more expecting fixes to the ME rather than spending time trying to help fix a game months after release - 

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Also @Icy I'd probably report the retreating opposition midfield too. You're outnumbered. One should step in on the ball carrier before he gets that far. 

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1 minute ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

I think the two sides are expecting different things here.

SI seem to want another beta process of wading through errors and bugs, reporting it and coming up with various examples to report your findings.

Customers were more expecting fixes to the ME rather than spending time trying to help fix a game months after release - 

They're not different things they're part of the same process

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2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They're not different things they're part of the same process

same process but radically different stages.

As a paying customer months after release I was hoping for some glaring issues to be fixed, not to spend time trying to report back on things that may or may not be looked at, and may or may not be fixed in this release

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Just now, Tiger666 said:

I don't understand what you're saying. If I submitted a bug report in December for the normal version of the game, I'm now expected to make another thread about it in the beta forum? I've submitted about 30 threads of bugs, none of them have been fixed. I'm not making yet another 30 threads in the beta forum on the same subjects.

It's not specifically aimed at you, you know that right? It's a general point. 

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19 minutes ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

same process but radically different stages.

As a paying customer months after release I was hoping for some glaring issues to be fixed, not to spend time trying to report back on things that may or may not be looked at, and may or may not be fixed in this release

This beta process is part of the upcoming series of fixes. Some of the errors have been dealt with. Some aren't and still require work. Some of the issues will be affected indirectly by some of the changes and that's what makes getting user reports from the beta useful. 

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

It's not specifically aimed at you, you know that right?

I'm well aware of that and you can drop the condescending comment as well thanks. We'll leave it there.

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1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

I'm well aware of that and you can drop the condescending comment as well thanks. We'll leave it there.

Nothing condescending at all. You seemed to be taking the point rather personally

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36 minutes ago, Rien102 said:

 

TLDR: I honestly love the game but the UI/UX is slowly, and surely, killing my fun…

UX/UI design has been going backwards pretty much everywhere since the smartphone generation started coding. Anything that is WIMP has been made worse to use by people whose default thought process is touchscreens.

No real surprise that FM isn't exempt.

 

 

Edited by rp1966

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The amount of 1 on ones missed, last 4 penalties I have had I've missed, wingers taking their time then from a promising position, hitting a crap cross against a defender and causing me to be countered 

 

I feel like I am doing things right but the game is broken 

 

This is with the beta patch too

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39 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

UX/UI design has been going backwards pretty much everywhere since the smartphone generation started coding. Anything that is WIMP has been made worse to use by people whose default thought process is touchscreens.

No real surprise that FM isn't exempt.

 

 

Not sure if this is serious. Do you seriously think UI is worse than decades ago and thats because of "the smartphone generation" or "wimps". 

And do you also think this relates to FM and the UI back in the day was better than now? Also implying FM has "wimps" and "smartphone generation" people behind their UI design? Instead of people who have serious degrees? Also not sure what the touchscreen comment is supposed to be. That would only improve usability if thats the thought process (not like it is and definitely not relevant to FM). Small phones have a lot less screen estate and it needs to be used efficiently. 

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41 minutes ago, kingzero47 said:

The amount of 1 on ones missed, last 4 penalties I have had I've missed, wingers taking their time then from a promising position, hitting a crap cross against a defender and causing me to be countered 

 

I feel like I am doing things right but the game is broken 

 

This is with the beta patch too

AI and you have exactly the same resources, so no. The game doesn't cheat you, nor is it broken. 

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3 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

This is just my opinion based on my limited observation and experience with bug reporting: I find the whole bug reporting process not rewarding, mainly because reporting a bug and providing pkm's takes time and effort, but once you do it, it feels like throwing a rock into a lake. After the first ripple effect (initial reaction from SI saying 'received, under review', or worse 'provide save game, more pkm's etc') the rock goes to the bottom of the lake and joins the other thousands of rocks, and you have no idea what happens to it. Is it being worked on? Has it been made a priority? More importantly, any progress update? No. It is really a one way street, a black hole. 

Instead, what I like is when sometimes SI actually takes initiative and asks for examples of a specific situation, because at that point you know that they made it a top priority, and there is a higher chance that the time you spent on that may actually help improve the game. SI likes creating those posts at the top of each section in the forum, so how about they create another one where they show a list of items that they are currently tackling? Otherwise it is really a huge waste of time, at no cost to SI.

100% this and I think this years release has kind of exasperated the situation.

Make it quicker to report a bug, ideally from within the game.

Be more proactive once a bug is acknowledged.

Feedback and update us on major bug resolution.

I'm sure SI would say they'd rather just concentrate their time and effort on resolving bugs behind the scenes and I get that. However, some of the bigger issues in this game remain unresolved and we're in the dark about where progress has been made on them if at all. It's painful when a patch comes out and something remains unresolved and unspoken....

 

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11 minutes ago, janrzm said:

100% this and I think this years release has kind of exasperated the situation.

Make it quicker to report a bug, ideally from within the game.

Be more proactive once a bug is acknowledged.

Feedback and update us on major bug resolution.

I'm sure SI would say they'd rather just concentrate their time and effort on resolving bugs behind the scenes and I get that. However, some of the bigger issues in this game remain unresolved and we're in the dark about where progress has been made on them if at all. It's painful when a patch comes out and something remains unresolved and unspoken....

 

Tbf, every time Neil tries to post any kind of update in here, a bunch of users will take it upon themselves to batter him, and the happened when they started an ME updates thread, had to be locked. To get that engagement, you've to have that arena to do it. Even today, recommending people use the beta as way to engage sets people off. It's not for nothing we say the more toxic the forums get the less devs engage. It goes both ways. You need more chat coming from SI, but you also need better reception from users. Without the two, it doesn't work, as we've seen since November

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2 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

All the things people are complaining about in here already have threads in the normal bug forum. We can't be expected to start more threads in the beta bug forum about the exact same issues. Plenty of threads in the normal bug forum have been bumped to say the issues are still there in the beta.

 

What i see from just skimming this thread now and then are issues not previously presented. Alot of free kick goals, alot of goals from long range, i would hope that thoose issues also are in reported the Beta bug forum, here they probably have a tendency to get lost until after the release when enough people complain about them

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8 minutes ago, eye-switcher said:

What i see from just skimming this thread now and then are issues not previously presented. Alot of free kick goals, alot of goals from long range, i would hope that thoose issues also are in reported the Beta bug forum, here they probably have a tendency to get lost until after the release when enough people complain about them

There are threads about both issues in the beta forum.

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if a player is likely to run down his contract (as imformed by ass. man), won't even negotiate a new one and I transfer list him, if he kicks up a fuss one of the interaction options should definitely mention him running down his contract. Pretty standard surely

 

 

Edited by Bardzie

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18 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Tbf, every time Neil tries to post any kind of update in here, a bunch of users will take it upon themselves to batter him, and the happened when they started an ME updates thread, had to be locked. To get that engagement, you've to have that arena to do it. Even today, recommending people use the beta as way to engage sets people off. It's not for nothing we say the more toxic the forums get the less devs engage. It goes both ways. You need more chat coming from SI, but you also need better reception from users. Without the two, it doesn't work, as we've seen since November

All i can see is zero reception by any si staff to any info i provided on beta match engine thread about lack of goals, and i've spent quite a lot of my time today to find information. I don't even know the direction in which should i go to prove it, or are they even looking at it. From that personal perspective, i can understand why people don't want to do it and are getting frustrated

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It is obvious SI games not very progressive about what they are making. Probably match engine guys are not convinced also. Maybe they are tied up current contracts. But seriously even the oldest wargaming hobby companies do innovate games it is so sad for FM people.

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8 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

All i can see is zero reception by any si staff to any info i provided on beta match engine thread about lack of goals, and i've spent quite a lot of my time today to find information. I don't even know the direction in which should i go to prove it, or are they even looking at it. From that personal perspective, i can understand why people don't want to do it and are getting frustrated

Just to clarify this point- you first posted on this issue on Monday and this is Tuesday- your input and posts are appreciated, but this is hardly a time frame for you to be complaining about receiving zero reception.

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5 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Just to clarify this point- you first posted on this issue on Monday and this is Tuesday- your input and posts are appreciated, but this is hardly a time frame for you to be complaining about receiving zero reception.

To add to this, there were posts made much later than that one and had si response, and i feel like it has been ignored for i don't even know what reasons,  just like those threads in official bug forum that had been standing unanswered in months and that have been burried.

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Have been a massive fan of FM since the start and have truly lost a pretty large chunk of my life to it haha. Most years i have read people slating it but for the most part have had no problem with it at all but this year as much as i am really loving the stuff done off the pitch i find the match engine to be a disgrace. I'm generally not someone who leaves comments but the match engine this year has wound me up that much that i had to create an account on here just to vent. I get in beta things can be a bit buggy but it's January know and i still find myself screaming at the game on a daily basis as players act in a way that no ordinary human being with even the slightest grasp on how football is played would act. For the very first time since i purchased the game back in the old Championship Manager days i'm wondering whether to bother next season (of course i'll probably still end up getting the beta as always though haha)

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To expand on the UX post I made earlier, I have some concrete examples to show.  First, let's take the Opposition Instructions.   Let's say you decide you'll make them for positions.  You go in the TC, go to the tab and just select them (pic 01).

image.thumb.png.395b03234af9ea355792c3e244bc5b94.png

You then wait for the Tactical Breefing to make them automatic like seen in pic 02...

image.thumb.png.1e4828e2bdda6d10ff77564b07c5d637.png

... but the problem is, when in you enter in the match and go check, you see that the starting XI is selected to be "as instructed by your Oppoisition Instructions".  The thing is, the subs that will come in will not be "targeted" by the instructions! In the other versions, they would be but not in this one.  I tried, many many times.  The only way to have the subs "targeted" as well, basically, you have to re-enter the instructions again in the TC of the match (pic 03) by selecting all the players (XI + subs).  Annoying...

image.thumb.png.210211f7415c936bc3389b23c1cd0183.png

Example #2, also in match.  You go in the TC during the match and you see this (PIC 04).

image.thumb.png.0c6453588eec9ef85a156151b58781da.png

You need to change something in th In Possession window so, you click on it but why do you make the "Confirm Changes" (in the bottom right) button vanish??????? [and it is like that with default skin as well].

image.thumb.png.c9dd6ee05a14eb2b100fecda3f526d9c.png

So, to go back to the game, you are forced to close the damn and to bring the mouse completely accross the screen and make another click!  Why????  Why add clicks like that???

For me, those are things like those useless extra clicks, useless mouse movements or the perpetually colomns width you have to reset every single time you go to a window that makes me be affirmative and talk about a poor UX... 

"One more for the road" in the annoying little things category...  You have a player on loan, you want to check his game form.  You go into the window and which form does the UI present you right at start?  The form in the U21 squad of course! (PIC 06).

image.thumb.png.a222aa33b2951350535ffb0ba0637e74.png

So, what do you have to do?  You have to go get that drop down menu to select the team the player is loaned to... every single time! (pic07).  Way can't we set a default?  At least, put the "All team" on top! sigh...

image.thumb.png.7f2ff3816de10af59990293df0476872.png

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21 hours ago, FrazT said:

That's a fair point about widely differing offers.  I do wonder, however if this is not preferable to 3 clubs bidding for your player on the same day, all bidding the same price with the same add-ons, which happened in previous versions?

It doesn't feel buggy in the same way that some other transfer dynamics do, which is why I haven't reported it. I bet it just comes down to the individual clubs situation and how they value the player. The Russian club offering nothing has nothing to offer and just see a young player with a smidgen of potential that might be available. The 2nd division club can't afford to offer a lot more. The bigger club can afford to pay more and this specific club - Chivas - have a Mexican-player-only rule that makes them more desperate for young Mexican players. 

Its happened repeatedly with offers varying to similar levels for players in this save, but I feel its goofy rather than a problem, if that makes sense? 

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3 minutes ago, Bigpapa42 said:

It doesn't feel buggy in the same way that some other transfer dynamics do, which is why I haven't reported it. I bet it just comes down to the individual clubs situation and how they value the player. The Russian club offering nothing has nothing to offer and just see a young player with a smidgen of potential that might be available. The 2nd division club can't afford to offer a lot more. The bigger club can afford to pay more and this specific club - Chivas - have a Mexican-player-only rule that makes them more desperate for young Mexican players. 

Its happened repeatedly with offers varying to similar levels for players in this save, but I feel its goofy rather than a problem, if that makes sense? 

Interestingly I have just had a similar situation in my own save-  A 28 year-old Swedish international early in his contract, established first team regular and happy- valued at 14M and just received a bid of 6.5M for him- what??  Immediately after I received a bid for a 21 year old, just prompted from the reserves with a big potential but no first team experience- valued at 750K and the bid was for 18M??  I nearly fell of my chair.!  The low bid was from an Eastern European club and the high bid form the EPL.

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Just a comment after reading some 1on1 bug tread. We can want all kind of things to the game but the fact is user observations and bug reports are just one of thousands dimensions in a bigger fm world picture especially concerning ME. But to the point.. I'm going work so in a hurry. :D 1on1 and finishing player traits should be let loose. Meaning technical strikers should round and lob keeper more. If good first touch try more onetouch shots. If good str shoot with power. flair more overheads.. now we dont see these "at all". Free them from their cages!! :)

Edited by Pasonen

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I'm not using the public beta and am in fact staying offline so the game can't update as I was scared the ME would in fact get even worse than it was (I actually don't mind V2026). 

Am I right to avoid the public beta? Is it in fact worse than V2026? 

 

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On 20/01/2020 at 22:22, bleventozturk said:

This is just based on my observation from watching youtube videos using the new beta ME since the beta wasn't released for FM Touch, but it seems like there is actually plenty of central play and goals produced from open play, when you play with more attacking mentality. So, maybe the ME is perfectly capable of producing more realistic play and scorelines, but the AI in general is too conservative? Hypothetically, if you take Barcelona for example, and if you can have Messi scoring 30+ goals, to me that would mean that maybe it is the AI's mentality levels that need to be tweaked, and not the ME itself? Just a thought. 

The match starts around 12:40 in the video below. This guys has his team producing lots of chances and his strikers scoring a lot, using an attacking mentality. 

 

I've been saying for months that the biggest issue with the ME is in fact the AI and the fact it is perfectly happy to lose 1-0 rather than even attempt to win a game of football. 

It means you end up with games where you end up with 30+ shots and maybe 1 goal as the shots are all fairly low quality due to the AI just defending with 11 men refusing to leave their own 6 yard box. 

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