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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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45 minutes ago, CaptainPlanet said:

The games has pros and cons. 

Pros: I like when I win  

Cons: I blame something if I lose

how about I dont like even I won?

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The customers pain is that as the time passes the less time Dev's can focus on 2020 as they had to shift the focus to FM 2021 again. March Winter Patch is the probable Dead line for it. So i can understand displeasure given the state of things that if the Winter patch doesn't make it better then 20 might not get any more updates to fix it. Why not using Public beta to test what they are trying to achieve. Last year i believe SI did used it extensively to improve FM 19. 

Edited by ferrarinseb

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I can't control B team rest schedule or rest players from the right click menu on their names.

Going into Staff and then clicking on the link to the u19 team at the bottom of the page does nothing and while the B team link works, it's manager is locked into to be handled by the Chairman that don't hire one and if I try to place adverts for any position on the B team I don't get a inbox message and I never get the applicants, the B team has open spots for Loan manager and Technical Director, but when I try to negotiate contracts the positions is not in the list.

 

It also seems that something is wrong with the dev center's ability to see the B team players, right now the team has quite a few La Liga 1 players, even one leading La Liga 1 striker on the team, but the dev center give the team an average rating and none of the high star rating players is being mentioned in the list.

 

The only part of the dev center that can see the B players is the "need attention" one, it can see that one of the players on the team is doing badly (long term injury).

 

The game also keep telling me to move all the u19 GK to the B team, even the 3 or less blue star GK's.

 

If I move an u19 player to the B team and try to make them available for the u19 that doesn't work. They get marked as being available, but the u19 team never use them.

Edited by Miravlix

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Previous FM19,18,17, etc... felt it was being a coach :thup:. In this FM20 have wait ME decides. Looks like you're playing slotmachine :thdn:.

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1 hour ago, Sisamom said:

Me too. Never ever i will buy the game before the Final patch. I've lost trust in the words of SI and in Miles words.

Me2!

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Just want to reiterate what I said in here on Monday:

Quote

We are working towards an update with the aim of improving the experience of FM, be that through gameplay, performance or match. We hope to do this as soon as we're able to, but given the complexities of certain areas of the game this isn't something we can rush. We don't want to come out and say 'we will release an update on x date' then our Dev or QA team finds an issue which prevents us from meeting that deadline. As always, as soon as we're in a position to update the game we will do so. 

Thanks. 

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4 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Just want to reiterate what I said in here on Monday:

Thanks. 

Neil, is there any way you can give us a rough estimation? I mean CA have a bug with the latest DLC they released and have said that they hope to release a patch in the next couple of weeks, but that might change if they run into problems.

Is there any way you can say when you hope to have a patch out? I'm asking from the point of view that I haven't touched FM20 in about a month now and just keep coming on here every day to see if there is any news.

Thanks.

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@Neil BrockI'm currently contemplating to buy FM20. I have full confidence the ME will be at least "decent" by the time I got myself acquainted with the new game and before any frustration could set in. I see most things I care about are being recognized as things in need for improvement or have been fixed (like Belgian league homegrown status). All except one: VAR. I saw a thread that apparently the VAR decision is always the same. I was wondering if other players have similar experiences? Is this someting SI is looking into? I would think statistics are taken from real-life and used for the "die throw" in FM? (for example if in PL VAR disallows goals 90% of the time because of offside, then in FM a 10-sided die would be thrown and goal be disallowed on a 1 upto 9)?

Edited by DJ Sir Matthew
typos

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Days, weeks or months. A rough estimate. If we have to wait to march, fine, but atleast say so.

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb Neil Brock:

Just want to reiterate what I said in here on Monday:

Thanks. 

right before the release it was possible to say for miles that the ME he is playing is a lot ahead of the me we played in the beta. One thing about that is that i cant see it like this, as this me is still pure garbage and no fun at all.

 

But know you tell us you cant even give us a rough estimate if we have to wait till march or not, this is sad and feels bad for us. Easily it should be possible to give us a info every week, like "we made improvements in that or something like this"

Edited by KiLLu12258

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Next patch is pretty important, huh? If it isn't satisfactory then we've basically gone a whole cycle with an unsatisfactory product. FM20 will be a write off and never to be spoken about again. 

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1 minute ago, pamf said:

Days, weeks or months. A rough estimate. If we have to wait to march, fine, but atleast say so.

It's ready when it's ready, last thing we want is another hurried patch. Remember what happened with last? Hopefully they start to cure causes not consequences.

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I think the main thing I've noticed about the last 5 years or so is too much emphasis on new in game features, experiences, skins etc and not enough on fixing problems in the ME and graphics. Tactics are far too complicated with fancy names player roles, talking to players is still rubbish, never anything there that you want to say to them and when you choose the best option the go in the huff. This game needs a year off to fix so many things but it wont happen due to market forces and money needing to be made. I like many are fed up waiting for the inevitable patch, the game is not unplayable, it's just not great to play at times, boredom kicks in too easily.

Edited by jc1

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Without any tactical notes, just Y/N please. Somebody created a true tiki-taka on current ME?

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At this point i think it's just better to wait for the winter update since they will have more time to iron out the ME and other aspects of the game.

As for me i am really thinking to purchase any further releases on March when all the issues are sorted, rather than in Oct-Nov.

I also think that FM 20 will be a very good FM after the latest patch to the ME so it should be enough to satiate my FM needs until March 2021 when FM 21 will probably be a better game

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1 минуту назад, andu1 сказал:

also think that FM 20 will be a very good FM after the latest patch to the ME

The same we told about FM19 last patch, but it didn't fix attacking moving as expected. I dont wait a miracle about ME, something strange happens in this case in last years

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Si will never go back and do this but get rid of 50% of the roles in the game. They are unneeded. Concentrate on getting the core and basic roles to function how they should first before adding new ones. 

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4 часа назад, bleventozturk сказал:

Interesting argument about gegenpressing and how easy it is to win:

 

Mate really not all like to watch streams and videos in general :) (especially on foreign language) Spoiler in text please if it really has a relevance:thup:

Edited by Novem9

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Guys.... you have to understand that SI's position is to never give a date of release or even a rough estimation because at any point an error might come up that takes weeks to fix...  it's just not viable to give a date..

 

What they would like to tell you but can't would be that in previous versions the winter update has always come around the same time and there's probably no reason to expect it not to be around the same time again this year.... just look at when the updates came previously and go from that...

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44 minutes ago, 2calvin said:

Si will never go back and do this but get rid of 50% of the roles in the game. They are unneeded. Concentrate on getting the core and basic roles to function how they should first before adding new ones. 

Some roles are not needed maybe especially because AI never uses them. Some of them are unrealistic like IWBa, many of them have too many duties like DLF or CWB. But I think it would be more important to evoluate them, like what we discussed yesterday about dribbling. And even more improtant would be to fix them to play what they're supposed to so that inside forwards don't dribble down the line with weaker foot for example. This wasn't an issue years ago.

Edited by Mitja

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@Huey Lewis  I have hidden your post since it is adding nothing to this thread. Please keep your posts relevant

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Is that the problem of the ME is that it is governed mainly by the statistics and not by the attributes and preparation that you did ...... Start the game, the ME says .... your team at most will score two goals, then you arrive 30 times even if they are 1 vs 1, then your team will fail 28 times ....

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Just now, kosecki99 said:

Is that the problem of the ME is that it is governed mainly by the statistics and not by the attributes and preparation that you did ...... Start the game, the ME says .... your team at most will score two goals, then you arrive 30 times even if they are 1 vs 1, then your team will fail 28 times ....

No, the ME doesn't work like that.

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Just now, kosecki99 said:

Is that the problem of the ME is that it is governed mainly by the statistics and not by the attributes and preparation that you did ...... Start the game, the ME says .... your team at most will score two goals, then you arrive 30 times even if they are 1 vs 1, then your team will fail 28 times ....

Given that it has been explained dozens of times how the ME works, and that what happens is calculated at the same time as it being shown on the pitch, your assertion is incorrect.

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4 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

what happens is calculated at the same time as it being shown on the pitc

It has been stated many times before (by those who know far more than I) that the final result is calculated the moment you submit your team. I was always under the impression that any in game changes you make recalculates the result. Could someone please clarify? It would be good to lay a few misguided posts and myths to rest.

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34 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

It has been stated many times before (by those who know far more than I) that the final result is calculated the moment you submit your team. I was always under the impression that any in game changes you make recalculates the result. Could someone please clarify? It would be good to lay a few misguided posts and myths to rest.

First things first - the ME doesn't calculate a result and then works backwards. It calculates and whatever the results is, is the result.

When you click "Submit Team", you'll see "teams are warming" up. That's the couple of seconds the ME takes to calculate every decision by players (I think we're at 24 or 32 decisions per second) for the match until half-time. It only knows what the result at half time will be when it does the final calculation. It then chooses to show you the highlights of what's been calculated.

After you've done your team talk and start the second half, there's another calculation of the next 45 mins in the same manner as what happened in the first half.

Any change you make at any point and you'll see "making tactical changes" which is the ME recalculating the rest of the half.

Hope that clears it up.

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1 hour ago, Welshace said:

Guys.... you have to understand that SI's position is to never give a date of release or even a rough estimation because at any point an error might come up that takes weeks to fix...  it's just not viable to give a date..

 

What they would like to tell you but can't would be that in previous versions the winter update has always come around the same time and there's probably no reason to expect it not to be around the same time again this year.... just look at when the updates came previously and go from that...

But, see I just dont understand it. Why is it that SI cant, yet Creative Assembly can? There is now way you are telling me that the ME is more complex than the engine that is running total war. 

I get that it is complex, and I certainly couldn't do what these guys can, but from an outsiders point of view there are plenty of complex engines out there, mainly for strategy games, that can give timescales etc. So what makes it different at SI?

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FM 2019 - Patch 19.3.0 - March 1st 2019

FM 2018 - Patch 18.3.0 - March 1st 2018

FM 2017 - Patch 17.3.0 - March 1st 2017

FM 2016 - Patch 16.3.0 - March 4th 2016

FM 2015 - Patch 15.3.0 - February 25th 2015

FM 2014 - Patch 14.3.0 - February 28th 2014

I'm not going further back than that. Anyone expecting a patch anytime soon is going to be extremely disappointed. The next patch will be 20.3.0 for the Winter Transfer Update and will include any ME tweaks that SI have been working on. First week of March is a good estimate. That's the history, those are the facts. They aren't going to release a patch mid-January when most of the transfers haven't even happened yet. Besides, it's another 6 weeks they get to work on the ME and oh boy does it need it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Given that it has been explained dozens of times how the ME works, and that what happens is calculated at the same time as it being shown on the pitch, your assertion is incorrect.

Explained by who really? Since mods claim they don't have access to the me, you can only trust a) some people that don't really have a clue how it works b) si staff that work with the code but will never give you hard proof for that. Besides that, it's pure speculation and i try to be objective with this, i would rather trust my observations over years of fm series, than trust someone who is arguing that ball tapping sound is hard to fix, or low priority 3 months after the release of game, and few weeks of beta testing before that. My thoughts are that is negelect, and following the logic behind that, it's not hard to believe that the system if based on statistics and predetermination, with some adjustmens when something is changed, it really feels like i'm rolling a dice and that me is compensating for that with missing chances, penalties more or less irrelevant to the atributes thus making the ME unbearable. I've been hearing about ME knock-on effects when match is replayed, but that can also, more easily be explained with simple predetermination when squad list is submitted, just like you can generate instant result for your team when you holiday for a day, or have ir button, and generate a match report in mere seconds, and having to feel that way is immersion breaking, and i would guess it is for most of the people that would have similar observations. 

I agree with posters above, will absolutely wait for the next Fm until March. Either way, although this is my first post on here after a lot of lurking and it seems mostly negative, i think fm20 is great in all other aspects except for sounds and ME, it's personally a step up from the 19 in squad building, negwen generation, training and club evolution and dynamics, which all makes me very frustrated due to ME issues mainly.

Edit: Just seen HUNT3R's post after i posted, that makes sense, not far away with my best guess

Edited by vukigepard
Didn't see HUNTER's post explaining the calculation

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3 hours ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

@Neil BrockI'm currently contemplating to buy FM20. I have full confidence the ME will be at least "decent" by the time I got myself acquainted with the new game and before any frustration could set in. I see most things I care about are being recognized as things in need for improvement or have been fixed (like Belgian league homegrown status). All except one: VAR. I saw a thread that apparently the VAR decision is always the same. I was wondering if other players have similar experiences? Is this someting SI is looking into? I would think statistics are taken from real-life and used for the "die throw" in FM? (for example if in PL VAR disallows goals 90% of the time because of offside, then in FM a 10-sided die would be thrown and goal be disallowed on a 1 upto 9)?

The VAR is to correct wrong decisions made by referees. We are playing a computer game, for the computer 2+2 = 4. So it will always be the same decision.

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3 minutes ago, saihtam said:

If you dont patch up obvious bugs etc or listen to community and want to keep your traditional after winter update patch in March. I am sorry to be harsh but, then everyone are right to be angry and you should not be in software development.

The thing is they are probably working on patches for the bugs, looking at the bugs forum they're either under review or needing more info with the small amount of "not seen YET". The ME patches always come in 3's, official, december (before jan window) and end of feb/start of march as the person showed. 

They obviously do listen to the community but we are a minority on the forums and are the ones that give feedback, and they base it off us. 

To me when they say sales are higher than previous fm or when players are playing it more then the conclusion "it's a better game" gets said which is perfectly reasonable but if you go deeper the issues say otherwise but won't get picked up by the ordinary player hence they never see the forums or disagree with it, which is also reasonable as it might not effect them. 

Should ubisoft or EA be in software develop then, considering they have questionable uses for their games?? SI do their thing and if we agree or not on the proccess then we still stick with it for those whom carry on playing, if it doesn't suit the direction you were hoping either wait longer/try the demo or not buy the game and play an elder one you like with an updated database externally. Reason I went back to 17, gave my reasons on the demo and waiting for the next patch (which isn't ideal for some) but the whole buy the game every march point seems reasonable as it's cheaper and the better patch and it also gives you an inclination if the game is good or not- hence i stay on the forums and read up, simple. 

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3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Just want to reiterate what I said in here on Monday:

Thanks. 

Is there a reason why we haven't really had the public beta this year?

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12 minutes ago, BigV said:

The thing is they are probably working on patches for the bugs, looking at the bugs forum they're either under review or needing more info with the small amount of "not seen YET". The ME patches always come in 3's, official, december (before jan window) and end of feb/start of march as the person showed. 

They obviously do listen to the community but we are a minority on the forums and are the ones that give feedback, and they base it off us. 

To me when they say sales are higher than previous fm or when players are playing it more then the conclusion "it's a better game" gets said which is perfectly reasonable but if you go deeper the issues say otherwise but won't get picked up by the ordinary player hence they never see the forums or disagree with it, which is also reasonable as it might not effect them. 

Should ubisoft or EA be in software develop then, considering they have questionable uses for their games?? SI do their thing and if we agree or not on the proccess then we still stick with it for those whom carry on playing, if it doesn't suit the direction you were hoping either wait longer/try the demo or not buy the game and play an elder one you like with an updated database externally. Reason I went back to 17, gave my reasons on the demo and waiting for the next patch (which isn't ideal for some) but the whole buy the game every march point seems reasonable as it's cheaper and the better patch and it also gives you an inclination if the game is good or not- hence i stay on the forums and read up, simple. 

It is a tricky thing and I never would call out to harass etc. I believe they work on patches etc. Just please communicate somehow. We have had flashy release news and announcements - why not put some effort into transparency with us the players. You have amazing mods, community and forum built up here. Use it, make dev blogs, pics how passionate your dev and testers are doing things there(just few times a year is enough). Blog type thing or anything( I was hoping to see some dev feedback in this Byline thing, it would be perfect platform for them),.
And if they truly are selling so so so well why dont we see this progress more clearly.  Working in secrecy and on hype is exhausting and dangerous play.  Also I feel that Miles disappears after releases and basically any info we get is FM has best sales this year, so many players are playing and for bugs go report here...

By my development statement I mean that you cant shut down few months of patch releasing to keep up with the regular every year patching dates... IF needed to do, you just do it.

I truly truly love SI and what they bring us in FM, but it just starts to wear off and people are exhausted by this year after year.

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7 minutes ago, saihtam said:

You have amazing mods, community and forum built up here. Use it, make dev blogs, pics how passionate your dev and testers are doing things there(just few times a year is enough). Blog type thing or anything( I was hoping to see some dev feedback in this Byline thing, it would be perfect platform for them),.

That's a great suggestion imo. A dev blog where updates and changes in the ME (and even funny bugs that happen during development) would be really cool for FM. And would help a lot for people to relax and watch the clear progress being made

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34 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said:

I do believe it wouldn't hurt to at least clarify if there is another patch coming before the Winter DB update or not. If the plan is to indeed release the next patch with the Winter DB update then why not simply say that. 

I think you can actually answer that yourself: If they find a fix before, yes. If not, no. I really don't get all those 'when will the patch be here' questions. Whatever the answer is, it wouldn't change anything. 

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@Koffing - I've hidden your post. You're welcome to post constructive criticism, but making comments about the testers or staff isn't suitable or appreciated.

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vor 21 Minuten schrieb saihtam:

It is a tricky thing and I never would call out to harass etc. I believe they work on patches etc. Just please communicate somehow. We have had flashy release news and announcements - why not put some effort into transparency with us the players. You have amazing mods, community and forum built up here. Use it, make dev blogs, pics how passionate your dev and testers are doing things there(just few times a year is enough). Blog type thing or anything( I was hoping to see some dev feedback in this Byline thing, it would be perfect platform for them),.
And if they truly are selling so so so well why dont we see this progress more clearly.  Working in secrecy and on hype is exhausting and dangerous play.  Also I feel that Miles disappears after releases and basically any info we get is FM has best sales this year, so many players are playing and for bugs go report here...

By my development statement I mean that you cant shut down few months of patch releasing to keep up with the regular every year patching dates... IF needed to do, you just do it.

I truly truly love SI and what they bring us in FM, but it just starts to wear off and people are exhausted by this year after year.

my problem is that the transparency is there short time before the release but after that there is nearly nothing. And this is where the frustration begins as it feel like we dumb customers are already in so no reason to be transparent.

 

This is why the big publishers get a lot of hate, but even them are changing there behavior somehow the last year.

 

Also why not give us the chance to test small (or) biggr tweaks with beta builds. If next patch is coming with march we have to live with that again till the next fm, which everything starts again.

Edited by KiLLu12258

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6 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

I think you can actually answer that yourself: If they find a fix before, yes. If not, no. I really don't get all those 'when will the patch be here' questions. Whatever the answer is, it wouldn't change anything. 

If they find a fix to... what? There are numerous different bugs/issues (which is normal, it's a huge piece of software). If the goal is to fix all of them , that might not even happen until the Winter DB update.. 

So maybe a way to go would be a specific initial target of fixing 10-20 major issues in an earlier patch and then "whatever more possible" until the Winter DB update. It can also be that the target is "we try to fix everything we can until the Winter DB update" which I can also accept (even though I don't like it). I just don't see why there should not be a bit more clarity about that

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9 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said:

If they find a fix to... what? There are numerous different bugs/issues (which is normal, it's a huge piece of software). If the goal is to fix all of them , that might not even happen until the Winter DB update.. 

So maybe a way to go would be a specific initial target of fixing 10-20 major issues in an earlier patch and then "whatever more possible" until the Winter DB update. It can also be that the target is "we try to fix everything we can until the Winter DB update" which I can also accept (even though I don't like it). I just don't see why there should not be a bit more clarity about that

Because there is no clear timeline of what will be fixed when (due to the complexity of the ME). Reading between the lines of Neil's posts, you can safely assume that if they manage to fix one of the 'major' issues (the first one coming to mind is the long ball over the top 1vs1's), they'll release that as soon as it is available. But they will obviously not just throw out a patch for every miniscule adaption. 

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb Jimmious7:

"we try to fix everything we can until the Winter DB update" which I can also accept (even though I don't like it). I just don't see why there should not be a bit more clarity about that

which is not the fair way for us players as we have to wait another 2 months till we get a potential better version of the ME.

and at that state how it is we should not wait that long.

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1 час назад, saihtam сказал:

They aren't going to release a patch mid-January when most of the transfers haven't even happened yet

They can release transfer update separately which btw is a work of researchers as I know
Btw in this year patch 20.2 was earlier in compare of usual dates

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1 minute ago, KiLLu12258 said:

which is not the fair way for us players as we have to wait another 2 months till we get a potential better version of the ME.

and at that state how it is we should not wait that long.

@Jimmious7 this is what I meant with that there is no point in setting (even potential) deadlines as it will only lead to more comments like the one I quoted here.

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