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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Lexis:

So in 2020 they are making games for 2 GB RAM and Athlon 64 - 2-2GHz.

What is the point? How many people are actually playing the game on similar specs?

 

For a lot of people this is the only game they are playing. They don't need a gaming computer and therefore playing it often on older computers with low specs. The same with very young customers. 

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4 minutes ago, Lexis said:

Can any of that be made public? Just curious. I cannot imagine those minimum specs are something very often met among people.

The cheapest laptop I can find at my local supplier (200$) is a Celeron Dual Core going up to 2400 MHz and with 4 GB RAM. Just to put those specs in perspective.

No. There are people every year however, that do try to play FM on systems that are "under spec" (mileage varies whether it runs or not).

As @KUBI points out, some people literally only have FM as games that they play. I was one of those for a few years when I first started playing the series. 

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6 minutes ago, Lexis said:

Can any of that be made public? Just curious. I cannot imagine those minimum specs are something very often met among people.

The cheapest laptop I can find at my local supplier (200$) is a Celeron Dual Core going up to 2400 MHz and with 4 GB RAM. Just to put those specs in perspective.

It will run but it won't be a smooth experience. Actually FM is a pretty high demanding game from both RAM and CPU perspective, but does it actually require to have a high-end system? No. I think FM2019 and FM2020 is poorly optimized though. 

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I really think there is one thing that holds down the development of ME and that thing is - FM has more football styes than real game. I guess it's not easy to incorporate all the stuff that exists plus much more that doesn't. 

I'm amazed nobody thought of that before :D 

 

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3 minutes ago, KUBI said:

For a lot of people this is the only game they are playing. They don't need a gaming computer and therefore playing it often on older computers with low specs. The same with very young customers. 

 

By the same coin, you are potentially missing out on clients who would otherwise buy if the game showed improved graphics, mechanics, AI and so on (features dictated by computing power in one way or another).

I am not aware of how Google Stadia is working out at the moment for FM but Cloud Gaming is getting closer, resources will no longer be an issue to that degree.

While FM is not something you play for graphics, it is frustrating watching that kind of graphics in 2020. The match engine can only be taken so far in it's current iteration. We are already very close to it's limits. We are seeing them every year. Sure, the engine is updated each year, but the updates are  far from anything spectacular, rather just fine tuning from one edition to the other. We are already seeing the limits in defending, in certain animations, in certain reactions of players. Every iteration is an engine with SLIGHTLY better graphics (some redone textures, some extra animations, again slightly), but in itself and how it plays out mechanic-wise it's just a rehashing of the prior version with hopes that this year's will be better. We have older versions of FM with a match engine closer to reality and more balanced than some newer versions. There rarely is a clear improvement in how the match engine plays out from yearly version to yearly version. Release day match engine is generally average at best and disastrous at worst. It's rather just a rehashing, hoping it gets closer to what it should be and by version .3 maybe better than last years. This has been the trend for the past years. If year by year, the match engine at the release day is far from what it should be, there must be some process going wrong in Production. If not enough testers are available, going beta sooner and making it available for anybody not just buyers may be a solution.

Problems have to be recognized and taken responsability for, only then a solution can be thought of and implemented.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Lexis:

If not enough testers are available, going beta sooner and making it available for anybody not just buyers may be a solution.

Problems have to be recognized and taken responsability for, only then a solution can be thought of and implemented.

Unfortunately there are no easy solutions for complex process and structures. People here on the forums can discuss one issue in the ME for ours and days and how it could be resolved. Now add 10 or 20 other issues and all the side effects when changing just one of them.

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Just now, KUBI said:

Unfortunately there are no easy solutions for complex process and structures. People here on the forums can discuss one issue in the ME for ours and days and how it could be resolved. Now add 10 or 20 other issues and all the side effects when changing just one of them.

Then we both agree that there is a problem. That is categorically true and nobody said it would be easy. However, SI should perform an analysis and see how to drive this and improve this process better. They know their own kitchen, they know their own limiting factors, bottlenecks and so on. Again, if you don't have anywhere near the intended product at launch, year after year, somewhere there's a problem and efforts have to be done to be fixed.

And I don't want to bash on features, but this year SI has picked the easiest road possible.

Club Vision is something that was in the game to some extent (board philosophy and season objectives), made a little more fleshed out and released. Again, most of that was in the game in some form or another, it was just condensed in a single system.

Development Center is basically feeding you the same information that was already in game in different places but now in only a single screen. This is something trivial to implement for SI. I am disappointed to see they announced this as a main feature.

Playing time pathway is manager promises taken up a notch as well. Not impressive in any way shape or form.

The discipline system is also something useful, but rather unimpressive. You're basically setting a baseline to be followed for the season and anytime that is not matched -> generate a player reaction.

I'm not bashing but the implementation-effort required by such things is trivial at SI's level.

If these would be anywhere near hard, what could be said about the last revamp of the training system, the first time implementation of a 3D system or the last revamp of the tactical creator? Those were hard implementations. Those were features that were complex and hard to pull off. Those were MAIN FEATURES. Giving us a new screen with stats and info already present in the game is little more than childs play for SI's team.

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9 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Unfortunately there are no easy solutions for complex process and structures. People here on the forums can discuss one issue in the ME for ours and days and how it could be resolved. Now add 10 or 20 other issues and all the side effects when changing just one of them.

There is no valid argument as to why a public beta available to everyone wouldn't improve the product, the reason its only available to pre purchase customers is purely economical, being honest would give you a lot more respect among users.

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For example, trying to improve the AI is something not very obvious, but as complex as the ME and it's something that improves the game as a whole. To connect all parts better does also mean better AI, more interaction etc. 

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Mitja:

Wow that's some harsh reviews above, that being said I quit playing like a month ago. Can't even remember anymore but is the ME really that bad?

Yes! It's frustrating and annoying.

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2 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

There is no valid argument as to why a public beta available to everyone wouldn't improve the product, the reason its only available to pre purchase customers is purely economical, being honest would give you a lot more respect among users.

There likely won't be any change to their approach. Their product is selling, which gives them validation to keep going as they have been until now apparently.

There won't be any change until things start to shift. Whether they start selling less than before or competition shakes the market (unlikely at this point). We're just barking at trees at the moment

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Lexis:

We're just barking at trees at the moment

The trees are listening to constructive feedback and ideas. But there are also some one liners which are just barking. 

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4 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The trees are listening to constructive feedback and ideas. But there are also some one liners which are just barking. 

I know and user frustration has to be understood.

If people are posting on forums frustrated, it likely means that they care (at least some of them), especially considering that some of them are old timers.

Put yourself in a position where you pay full price for a game, you put all the effort in preparing the team, transfers, trainings, etc and then all goes to waste due to poor match engine design. Is the user at fault for bad tactics / training / management? Some of them, but not all of them. You (SI) have to understand the amount of frustration this causes. It is only natural some of them will vent here for better or for worse.

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5 hours ago, Mitja said:

Wow that's some harsh reviews above, that being said I quit playing like a month ago. Can't even remember anymore but is the ME really that bad?

Of course not, a lot of people (not all) are just unwilling or unable to adapt to it. You have to work harder tactically this year, react better, and if you do, the long term rewards are great. Better than previous versions IMO. 

Also, If it was 'that bad', there wouldn't still be tens of thousands of people playing it. That is a simple un-arguable fact. 

And again, before the usual suspects jump in, no, it's not perfect. It does need tweaked here and there, but I'm sure they will manage it. 

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vor 18 Minuten schrieb KUBI:

The trees are listening to constructive feedback and ideas. But there are also some one liners which are just barking. 

If SI wouldn't have released a game with an OBVIOUSLY totally bugged ME we would not have to bark.

Instead of barking we would spend our time with having fun playing a finished football manager for which we all paid the full price.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Sisamom:

If SI wouldn't have released a game with an OBVIOUSLY totally bugged ME we would not have to bark.

Instead of barking we would spend our time with having fun playing a finished football manager for which we all paid the full price.

There are every day 100k to 200k people playing this game and having fun. For some people (maybe including me) this game will never be finished, as I would like it perfect, but also knowing that this is impossible. So I enjoy it how it is and yes, this is possible as I think in general this is the best release so far. Or you can wait until an update fixes some issues. I just would prefer people speaking as I and not WE. 

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Just now, Sisamom said:

If SI wouldn't have released a game with an OBVIOUSLY totally bugged ME we would not have to bark.

Instead of barking we would spend our time with having fun playing a finished football manager for which we all paid the full price.

Obviously bugged?
In what way?
I'm having fun playing a finished football manager game. I didn't pay the full price.
 

5 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Of course not, a lot of people (not all) are just unwilling or unable to adapt to it. You have to work harder tactically this year, react better, and if you do, the long term rewards are great. Better than previous versions IMO. 

This line tend to be an important "trend".  Not adapting.
For argument sake; My team played perfectly in FM19. I'm getting pummelled with the same tactics in FM20.
Well, FM20 is a new game. It's different. It might not look all that different but it is a different game. I have to adapt to the new game.

It's a fairly common complaint that it's just the same ME year after year and if it isn't it's bugged.
Yet, the same players can't do the exactly the same on the new game as they could earlier. That means something has changed. It cannot be the same ME. It's a contradiction.
Adaptation is always a key factor.

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20 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Of course not, a lot of people (not all) are just unwilling or unable to adapt to it. You have to work harder tactically this year, react better, and if you do, the long term rewards are great. Better than previous versions IMO. 

Also, If it was 'that bad', there wouldn't still be tens of thousands of people playing it. That is a simple un-arguable fact. 

And again, before the usual suspects jump in, no, it's not perfect. It does need tweaked here and there, but I'm sure they will manage it. 

'Needs tweaking here and there' a slight understatement...

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vor 1 Minute schrieb smokeymcpot49:

'Needs tweaking here and there' a slight understatement...

Which makes it difficult. I can't remember an ME that did satisfy all. If you read the nostalgic threads, people enjoyed some MEs because they were fun to play, even with the limitations and bugs. At the moment it looks like some people are staring at the known issues and forget that this game offers so much more to enjoy.  

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5 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Which makes it difficult. I can't remember an ME that did satisfy all. If you read the nostalgic threads, people enjoyed some MEs because they were fun to play, even with the limitations and bugs. At the moment it looks like some people are staring at the known issues and forget that this game offers so much more to enjoy.  

Personally, this is the first year that I've had to shelve the game due to the issues already mentioned on this thread. 

But yes I appreciate that there are a lot of people who regardless of any bugs can still enjoy it, which is fair enough.

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27 minutes ago, KUBI said:

There are every day 100k to 200k people playing this game and having fun. For some people (maybe including me) this game will never be finished, as I would like it perfect, but also knowing that this is impossible. So I enjoy it how it is and yes, this is possible as I think in general this is the best release so far. Or you can wait until an update fixes some issues. I just would prefer people speaking as I and not WE. 

If you don't mind, I would like to see the stats your saying... just purely out of curiosity.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb grade:

If you don't mind, I would like to see the stats your saying... just purely out of curiosity.

The stats are available for everyone. Right now about 65k are playing the game in steam online mode. And according to Miles this edition (including touch and mobile) is the bestselling edition ever until now. 

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vor 23 Minuten schrieb roykela:

Obviously bugged?
In what way?
I'm having fun playing a finished football manager game. I didn't pay the full price.
 

 

- One vs one situations

- headers over the bar

- players run into the box with the ball, shoot from every angle and ignore better positioned players - always

etc...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sisamom said:

- One vs one situations

- headers over the bar

- players run into the box with the ball, shoot from every angle and ignore better positioned players - always

etc...

 

 

I've just played five games in a row where I got maybe 10 one on ones, most of them not even from a long ball but from an AP on the wing who played the striker in. i've seen the odd angle shot four  or five times in the same amount of games, but it's usually a case of nobody in support that can be reached. I did score one lovely counter attacking goal where a player was pretty much through on goal and laid it to his left for my upcoming RPM to pass it into the back of the net. So your statement that this always happened is clearly false.

You won't hear me say that this ME doesn't have its issues. Every ME since the start of this game series has had its issues. It's an integral part of the complexity of football as a game. However, I do feel that the general tone of complaint here is very much one of exaggeration and in a lot of cases way too personal and aggressive.

Either way, from a personal experience, this is by far the best FM I've played in a while. 

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21 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Which makes it difficult. I can't remember an ME that did satisfy all. If you read the nostalgic threads, people enjoyed some MEs because they were fun to play, even with the limitations and bugs. At the moment it looks like some people are staring at the known issues and forget that this game offers so much more to enjoy.  

It doesn't matter how many people are satisfied or dissatisfied with the match engine. This one is unique as it is objectively poor. If this is a simulation game, and the match engine does not simulate correctly, something that can be easily verified with both statistics and the naked eye, then the match engine is bad, period. Personally I laugh at this engine, I bought Football Manager and ended up with Pinball Manager: hoof it long, shoot straight at the goalkeeper, rinse and repeat. It's so bad it's actually hilarious; why? Because you will never see a football match like that in real life. Guaranteed. 

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

The stats are available for everyone. Right now about 65k are playing the game in steam online mode. And according to Miles this edition (including touch and mobile) is the bestselling edition ever until now. 

First of all, don't question Miles word. Don't like his approach to costumers and how some situations were handled. But if he states it is best selling edition ever, I have to believe him.

Yes, I know. I just checked google and told me the all-time peak of players playing FM20 was nearly 78 thousand people. Which i think is great for the franchise. But hardly the 100k to 200k every day play as you stated, thus, the reason why I asked where are you seeing those numbers.

I'm sorry that you may feel that I'm questioning your word. I'm not, but we at at the golden age of misinformation, more than ever we need hard proof what is being said on the net. So I was interested in seeing those numbers.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb grade:

First of all, don't question Miles word. Don't like his approach to costumers and how some situations were handled. But if he states it is best selling edition ever, I have to believe him.

Yes, I know. I just checked google and told me the all-time peak of players playing FM20 was nearly 78 thousand people. Which i think is great for the franchise. But hardly the 100k to 200k every day play as you stated, thus, the reason why I asked where are you seeing those numbers.

I'm sorry that you may feel that I'm questioning your word. I'm not, but we at at the golden age of misinformation, more than ever we need hard proof what is being said on the net. So I was interested in seeing those numbers.

78k at one time is not the amount of people playing it on one day.

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Just now, KUBI said:

78k at one time is not the amount of people playing it on one day.

Then where do you see those stats?

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9 minutes ago, Sisamom said:

- One vs one situations

- headers over the bar

- players run into the box with the ball, shoot from every angle and ignore better positioned players - always

etc...

1v1s = I know SI have confirmed it being an issue there. I don't have those issues. I have also noticed that quite a few people are having some misconceptions with what 1v1s are, and thus unknowingly exaggarating the amount of 1v1s.
Headers over the bar = Didn't know that was an issue. I see nothing out of the ordinairy here. Bad headers are missing the goal. Better headers hit the target as usual. That's my experience.
Players run into the box with the ball...= Some of my players can do that. I tell them not to and they look for the pass instead.

I'm not saying they aren't issues. All i'm saying is that if i hadn't read this forum i wouldn't have known they were issues.
It sure wouldn't be obvious bugs to me. I see normal football where i, the manager, have to act and react.

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7 minutes ago, danstam said:

It doesn't matter how many people are satisfied or dissatisfied with the match engine. This one is unique as it is objectively poor.

By "objectively poor", you mean that it is a fact (i.e. not just your subjective opinion, but a cold-hard fact) that the FM20 match engine is poor?

I do wish people would stop passing off their opinions as facts. Alas, this is the internet in 2020...

Edited by CFuller

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb KlaaZ:

I've just played five games in a row where I got maybe 10 one on ones, most of them not even from a long ball but from an AP on the wing who played the striker in. i've seen the odd angle shot four  or five times in the same amount of games, but it's usually a case of nobody in support that can be reached. I did score one lovely counter attacking goal where a player was pretty much through on goal and laid it to his left for my upcoming RPM to pass it into the back of the net. So your statement that this always happened is clearly false.

You won't hear me say that this ME doesn't have its issues. Every ME since the start of this game series has had its issues. It's an integral part of the complexity of football as a game. However, I do feel that the general tone of complaint here is very much one of exaggeration and in a lot of cases way too personal and aggressive.

Either way, from a personal experience, this is by far the best FM I've played in a while. 

I think it is because for a lot of people this game is more than just a game. But they sometimes forget, that creating and releasing a game is not the same as imagine a perfect game. 

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8 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The stats are available for everyone. Right now about 65k are playing the game in steam online mode. And according to Miles this edition (including touch and mobile) is the bestselling edition ever until now. 

I could write a two pages response about this. I've posted this before but I think those stats don't mean much since SI is doing a lot of PR lately, I also think that there are more people 'gaming' in general than a couple of years ago. Introducing pre-set tactics made me worry a bit and still does because this could indicate that SI is trying to get more (casual) people play the game. FM was always 'that hardcore game for football fanatics, by the fans for the fans' and this should never change.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Sanel:

I could write a two pages response about this. I've posted this before but I think those stats don't mean much since SI is doing a lot of PR lately, I also think that there are more people 'gaming' in general than a couple of years ago. Introducing pre-set tactics made me worry a bit and still does because this could indicate that SI is trying to get more (casual) people play the game. FM was always 'that hardcore game for football fanatics, by the fans for the fans' and this should never change.

They removed the tactic sliders (one of the biggest opportunities to cheat), they removed Wibblewobble, also used to cheat. Now the Me is a bit more complex, but also a lot more complicated to adjust. But there is no Diablo tactic anymore. 

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2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

By "objectively poor", you mean that it is a fact (i.e. not just your subjective opinion, but a cold-hard fact) that the FM20 match engine is poor?

I do wish people would stop passing off their opinions as facts. Alas, this is the internet in 2020...

Objective doesn't mean it is factual. Objective means without regard to personal feeling. Opinions can be based on objective evidence. This is one such example. I repeat... if a simulation does not correctly simulate the real world, then it is not a good simulation. That is an objective statement. Then you ask how does it not simulate the real world? In this case, one can use match statistics in the game vs. real life, as well as simply watching football matches, to come to an objective conclusion that the simulation does not match reality. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective

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1 minute ago, danstam said:

Objective doesn't mean it is factual. Objective means without regard to personal feeling. Opinions can be based on objective evidence. This is one such example. I repeat... if a simulation does not correctly simulate the real world, then it is not a good simulation. That is an objective statement. Then you ask how does it not simulate the real world? In this case, one can use match statistics in the game vs. real life, as well as simply watching football matches, to come to an objective conclusion that the simulation does not match reality. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective

A simulation is an approximate representation of something. 'Approximate' is open for interpretation as there is no hard set rule on how close it needs to be to the real thing to be considered a good simulation. Good and bad are still subjective, whether you like it or not.

But considering the complexities of football as a game, I think they're doing a very good job. 

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Just now, KlaaZ said:

A simulation is an approximate representation of something. 'Approximate' is open for interpretation as there is no hard set rule on how close it needs to be to the real thing to be considered a good simulation. Good and bad are still subjective, whether you like it or not.

But considering the complexities of football as a game, I think they're doing a very good job. 

You are correct that my choice of words is subjective, and I was trying to be concise while betraying accuracy. I agree that it is good in many respects given the complexities, but I was referring specifically to aspects of the engine that have been elucidated. Those (one-on-ones, etc.) are objectively not even remotely approximate to the real world, because the numbers show this. 

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb KlaaZ:

But considering the complexities of football as a game, I think they're doing a very good job. 

For all who criticise, I just say VAR. I'm a fan of it, even if there that many wrong decisions. The football forums are full of comments which aren't aloud here. :)

So, if the reality is that complex how should it be easy to fix some issues in a simulation of it?

 

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2 minutes ago, KUBI said:

They removed the tactic sliders (one of the biggest opportunities to cheat), they removed Wibblewobble, also used to cheat. Now the Me is a bit more complex, but also a lot more complicated to adjust. But there is no Diablo tactic anymore. 

Sliders made me read a 100+ pages .pdf file on how tactics work in FM.

Converting that knowledge onto the pitch in FM gave people a feeling of accomplishment. The new system is designed for lazy people, s.a. options that contradict each other greyed out. Plug and play basically. 

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3 minutes ago, danstam said:

You are correct that my choice of words is subjective, and I was trying to be concise while betraying accuracy. I agree that it is good in many respects given the complexities, but I was referring specifically to aspects of the engine that have been elucidated. Those (one-on-ones, etc.) are objectively not even remotely approximate to the real world, because the numbers show this. 

Whilst true, that doesn't make the entire match engine objectively poor. :)

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Sanel:

Sliders made me read a 100+ pages .pdf file on how tactics work in FM.

Converting that knowledge onto the pitch in FM gave people a feeling of accomplishment. The new system is designed for lazy people, s.a. options that contradict each other greyed out. Plug and play basically. 

Yes, how tactic works in FM, but it should be how tactic works in football.

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51 minutes ago, smokeymcpot49 said:

'Needs tweaking here and there' a slight understatement...

The vast majority of paying customers are extremely satisfied with this game. the number of players playing this game is at the all-time highest and the number looks like it will continue to grow and is growing.

the numbers don't lie, and FM20 is best-ever FM selling series. the hardcore few are the ones apparently quitting the game, but the majority are playing it and loving it. just look at the steam reviews i've never seen such positive ratings before. as far as SI is concerned, they can even don't bother to release any other patch and focus on Fm2021, and FM20 will still be considered a huge success purely by numbers. and let the minority complain here. but SI has always been known to release patches.

the current world we live in now, is all about statistics and bottom line - dollars and cents.

so be patient and perhaps we need to try to understand why the vast majority can still enjoy this game.

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1 minute ago, danstam said:

Objective doesn't mean it is factual. Objective means without regard to personal feeling. Opinions can be based on objective evidence. This is one such example. I repeat... if a simulation does not correctly simulate the real world, then it is not a good simulation. That is an objective statement. Then you ask how does it not simulate the real world? In this case, one can use match statistics in the game vs. real life, as well as simply watching football matches, to come to an objective conclusion that the simulation does not match reality. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective

Not many game simulators are good simulators in that case :D

And you mean this definition?

Definition of objective (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.

The game is certainly not objectively poor. Subjectively, sure.


Those (one-on-ones, etc.) are objectively not even remotely approximate to the real world, because the numbers show this

Then why don't i have those numbers in my game? I don't have those 1v1 issues.
It's objectively clear that some people do have them, as per SI's confirmation, but not all players have them.
But it doesn't make it an objectively poor game/ME. The game/ME isn't just about 1v1s, wingers shooting and long balls over the top.

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5 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Whilst true, that doesn't make the entire match engine objectively poor. :)

You're right, I was just very miffed by the constant "well sales are great" as if that was important in relation to criticisms of the match engine. Those should be solely based on analysis of how it performs versus the real world, rather than enjoyment (if the goal is to create the best possible simulation, anyway).

Quote

expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.
 

"Conditions as perceived" speaks for itself...

 

Quote

Then why don't i have those numbers in my game? I don't have those 1v1 issues.
It's objectively clear that some people do have them, as per SI's confirmation, but not all players have them.
But it doesn't make it an objectively poor game/ME. The game/ME isn't just about 1v1s, wingers shooting and long balls over the top.

But if those things are happening, and they shouldn't be, that is a massive problem. 

Edited by danstam
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3 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

so be patient and perhaps we need to try to understand why the vast majority can still enjoy this game.

The vast majority are probably unaware of a lot of the issues as I mentioned here:

 

Edited by Tiger666

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I'm off now. Just try to compare this game with other and what they offer, as a game and for the community. This is a lifetime companion for a lot of people. But in the end, it's not your game and it's not my game. It's the game we play the most. 

 

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I appreciate that this version has sold well but that doesn't mitigate the fact that every single concurrent player will have the same silly issues with balls over the defence and missed 1v1s. 

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1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

The vast majority are probably unaware of a lot of the issues as I mentioned here:

 

In that case, they wouldn't be game breaking as some people on here claim though. Either a lot of people don't notice these issues, they don't notice them to the same extent or they don't find them as annoying as has been claimed in this thread. :)

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Tiger666:

The vast majority are probably unaware of a lot of the issues as I mentioned here:

 

Or they just enjoy it because it offers a lot to them? 

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

Or they just enjoy it because it offers a lot to them? 

It offers a lot to a lot of people and most enjoy it. I'm still sure a lot of people play in such a way as they miss some of these issues.

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3 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

In that case, they wouldn't be game breaking as some people on here claim though. Either a lot of people don't notice these issues, they don't notice them to the same extent or they don't find them as annoying as has been claimed in this thread. :)

Sure, I've never claimed anything is game breaking. It's still a match engine full of issues.

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