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7 minutes ago, cregan said:

No, it's not unplayable, but my point was equally that it is that "hard to mentor/tutor up" younger players and that mentoring can't handle it if the only players available to mentor are all also affected. Newgens don't come in until the youth intake ticks over, so even if they came in in enough numbers to replace an entire senior squad (which they won't, obviously), that doesn't affect the first-season experience. 

For illustration: I started, and quickly stopped, a Scandinavian save last night, July start, unemployed, accept the first offer that comes in. That was Linkoping, bottom of one of the bottom leagues in Sweden. Good fun start, and by no means unusual as challenging FM saves go.

The club has 17 players in total, all but two of them under 23. It has two players (neither over 23, as it happens) with Determination over 3, at a mighty 7 and 9; neither is going to be able to do any mentoring to speak of. The club's total wage budget is £225p/w so the scope for getting in senior (semi-)pros, even if there were any who aren't also Determination 1-3 (which, on searching, there aren't), is very limited. Adding a manager to browse other clubs at the same level, it's the same across the board: mostly very young players, with a smattering of near-retirement oldies and a few journeymen, almost all attributes probably unset in the database because of the level they're at, and almost all of them with minimum Determination (Linkoping is better than some; one of our rivals has one player on 7, the rest on 1). And there's no in-game way to change that because there are no mentors, and in any case you'd be looking to improve an entire squad rather than one or two duff youngsters.

(On top of which, the way attribute points are distributed for a player's overall ability level seems on the face of it to mean that everyone at these obscure little clubs in obscure little leagues has remarkably good scores in their other mental attributes: only one of my team of no-hopers has Decisions lower than 8 and more than half have 11+, for instance. That rival with one lone guy with Determination 7 has almost an entire team with Leadership 10+, others are wildly Aggressive.)

So I doubt it's a problem at the top end, where a raft of senior players with values set in the DB can coach up erroneously poor youngsters and cover for the bug. But outside that experience, it is. And while, yes, the AI suffers from the same problem, the user can't do anything much to get around it at that level due to the resources lower leagues have to offer.

And even if every team in the division is populated almost entirely by fragile, inconsistent, charismatic geniuses with anger management issues, as a simulation while it might be playable it's still not especially enjoyable

Oh, I don't disagree with you, but there are a lot of hyperbole flying around here that won't do anyone any good.

Still, I'm actually wondering of starting a short term game now, just to have this as an extra challenge. Actually a bit temping to see if I can temper and develop those nasty players.

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Just now, XaW said:

Still, I'm actually wondering of starting a short term game now, just to have this as an extra challenge. Actually a bit temping to see if I can temper and develop those nasty players.

Would be interesting to see what you find, if you do. Remember, Andrew said the attributes like Determination are more flexible compared to previous years.

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28 minutes ago, Karnack said:

Just started my 4th season as Liverpool (save continued from Beta) and I'm enjoying it immensely. More so than any other FM and I had over 1200 hours in FM19...

Reading something about an attributes bug, not sure what the bug is but it hasn't affected my save in the least.

Best FM as far as I can remember. Great work SI!

Is that partly because it's so easy to win with Liverpool? I say that as someone that plays as them myself...

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

Would be interesting to see what you find, if you do. Remember, Andrew said the attributes like Determination are more flexible compared to previous years.

I'm working late and I need SI to not fix it today in order to be able to create a game when I get home. Not to step on anyone's toes here, but please SI, take your time! :p

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11 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Can be checked under 'FM > Game Status'

Great - checked and WOOP WOOP - In-Game Editor Allowed - YES :lock:

just not clear how I actually add the thing now - steam?

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26 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

Is there any way to just turn that ball kicking/tapping sound off, without turning the whole sound atmosphere off?  That is the only thing that irritates me a little bit. 

Do you mean when it sounds like a 🏀 being bounced for a few seconds?

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Just now, Fritz13 said:

Great - checked and WOOP WOOP - In-Game Editor Allowed - YES :lock:

just not clear how I actually add the thing now - steam?

Yes, you purchase via Steam. Search for "Football Manager 2020 In-game Editor" in the Store.

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1 minute ago, Fritz13 said:

Great - checked and WOOP WOOP - In-Game Editor Allowed - YES :lock:

just not clear how I actually add the thing now - steam?

Steam yes. Go to the FM20 store and the option is there to purchase. 

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anybody else having issues setting up game? 

when i do advanced set up, i choose large database and then i like to add players from different leagues and countries...but when i select what i want from different countries and leagues, according to the player count, the database automatically goes to small...at the moment, for me, it only allows to use either large database with no additional settings, or small database if i want to players from different leagues and countries

for example, i've loaded players from all top leagues in Europe, whilst trying to add large database but my player count is below 40,000 which seems small if large database ...large database with just my league loaded is already 17,000..

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when i change from small to large, the player count remains the same

frustrating as first day, i can't even set up a file how i'd like

p.s, nothing to do with the huge database added. this problem happened in beta, happens when i also delete the huge database from my files

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49 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Our aim is to absolutely get this issue addressed today, but as we've said on a couple of occasions, it's very much dependent on our tests. We don't want to rush out something which isn't ready. 

Will you also be looking for a fix to the lagging 3D Match Engine? 

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8 minutes ago, KGregory4444 said:

I've started my save yesterday and had done two pretty big 2/3 hour sessions on it and just started the season now, really enjoying it! Do you think the determination issue will affect me noticeably? I hadn't noticed it until I saw this just now, will they be able to adjust my current save so I don't have to restart?

 

Yes. I started a fresh save with yesterday's release. Erling Haaland's versatility is 1. William Saliba -> 1 versatiliy & 1 important matches. Mason Greenwood -> 1 important matches.... and so on. I am not able to check every player.

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14 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Is that partly because it's so easy to win with Liverpool? I say that as someone that plays as them myself...

How much I enjoy myself or that I haven't noticed the bug?

I have always played Liverpool in all FM-versions so thats usually my point of reference.

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3 minutes ago, santy001 said:

@RDF Tactics this is only a guess but presumably the players you're loading with additional options is already rendering the small/large database irrelevant. 

i doubt it as i have staff missing...Tony Colbert is not in my game, but if done just a large database, he would be in the game. he's english and im playing in England. there's other staff missing too, and players. but also players and staff from places like south america are also not in this custom database, but are there when i just load a large database

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3 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

i doubt it as i have staff missing...Tony Colbert is not in my game, but if done just a large database, he would be in the game. he's english and im playing in England. there's other staff missing too, and players. but also players and staff from places like south america are also not in this custom database, but are there when i just load a large database

Tony Colbert is at Southend as "Anthony Colbert", I had trouble finding him when searching Tony but he was there in the end.

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4 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

Tony Colbert is at Southend as "Anthony Colbert", I had trouble finding him when searching Tony but he was there in the end.

just searched. he's still not there. but in my save with just large database he is there. im using Mac by the way, in case that helps...but this problem is frustrating as i can't even start a new save how i'd like it to be set up on the first day of it being released

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Just now, RDF Tactics said:

just searched. he's still not there. but in my save with just large database he is there. im using Mac by the way, in case that helps...but this problem is frustrating as i can't even start a new save how i'd like it to be set up on the first day of it being released

Worth starting a thread in the relevant bug forum (competitions I think) and someone will look in to it. Not my area unfortunately so not sure what to suggest!

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10 minutes ago, Karnack said:

How much I enjoy myself or that I haven't noticed the bug?

I have always played Liverpool in all FM-versions so thats usually my point of reference.

Me too... the last few years, it's become much easier to win the league and 50% of the cups every season.

 

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12 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

Absolute nonsense. 

Game is like £36 on Steam iirc and before the beta was released it was on some sites for like £26. The bang for your buck with the series is unmatched. 

And also, if you don't feel like buying every version of the game...don't? 

One more thing, it's clear the game has taken a step forward with FM20 with the development centre, ideal for long term saves and developing youth players. 

Not only with those, I can honestly say that the ME has taken a huge step forward as well compared to FM19. 

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24 minutes ago, santy001 said:

@RDF Tactics this is only a guess but presumably the players you're loading with additional options is already rendering the small/large database irrelevant. 

No not at all.
Let's say I want a large database with extra "load all players with nationality=Danish". Then it's not irrelevant if the game has a large or small database. I still want a lot of players from other nations.

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Just now, mernild said:

No not at all.
Let's say I want a large database with extra "load all players with nationality=Danish". Then it's not irrelevant if the game has a large or small database. I still want a lot of players from other nations.

I would ask you to kindly cast your mind back to that part where I said "this is only a guess"

If you select a league such as Championship and above only, as it seems from the background then depending on other options in place below, hypothetically say to do with the English leagues its possible that changing from small to large would result in no more players being loaded. Due to the fact all possible players are already being loaded.

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1 hour ago, martplfc1 said:

Wrong. Here, whingers are often (rightly) ignored and their posts deleted/threads locked. Those who provide constructive feedback are vital to make the game better.

I think you miss my point, old chap. The person I quoted seemed to think any criticism of the game was 'whinging', which was why I placed quotation marks around it.

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I think it is worth emphasizing how bad the attribute bug is, so I'm going to spell it out.

It ruins the lower levels where most attributes are randomly set. Most players will have 1 for all personality and hidden attributes 

Many wonderkids are now useless.

Referees in most leagues are broken because they either have 1 or 20 for discipline attributes which affects cards and penalties.

Any fix will not be save game compatible.

Basically don't start a new save until is a fix.

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1 hour ago, Chris21 said:

I presume the attributes bug doesn’t affect games already started on the beta?

This is what I want to know. I really don't want to have to use the in-game editor as I don't want to know my players' mentals. My coach doesn't report anything out of the ordinary so maybe I'm ok...

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4 minutes ago, santy001 said:

I would ask you to kindly cast your mind back to that part where I said "this is only a guess"

If you select a league such as Championship and above only, as it seems from the background then depending on other options in place below, hypothetically say to do with the English leagues its possible that changing from small to large would result in no more players being loaded. Due to the fact all possible players are already being loaded.

I am well aware that it was a guess. But it was an incorrect one - and that is what I stated.
If he loaded all players from every nationality, then it would render the database size irrelevant.

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39 minutes ago, glosoli said:

Yes. I started a fresh save with yesterday's release. Erling Haaland's versatility is 1. William Saliba -> 1 versatiliy & 1 important matches. Mason Greenwood -> 1 important matches.... and so on. I am not able to check every player.

Cheers for letting me know, so not too much point carrying on I guess, big shame.

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12 hours ago, fiorentina said:

Soon i have 1 i determination too ...is there anything i can do with this? In my first save on beta i had 34000 players in database.., after beta  update i had 28000 players in database with same settings. After realese today i still have 28000 players in database. Cant find Neri and Bartlet (trainers)  for exempel...What to do?

Using the editor I'm noticing players missing from the earlier versions as well.

What's the story here?

Worth starting a topic?

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9 minutes ago, hazzabish said:

And on that note - it's still the case that the ai makes stupidly low offers for our players while we have to break the bank to get theirs.

If you have specific extreme examples, please report them, ideally with a save from just before the offer. That way it can be reproduced and SI can check under the hood to see if there are issues.

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I played 2 games in Demo and personally for me it looks good. I'm not ready to pay full price for this, but possibly will buy in sells if will have a time to play.
Confused about scout templates issue export which I raised 9000 times since FM19 Open Beta, but possibly its in demo only. If newgens will fill save realistic as original database it will be a good timekiller

It's so simple to create tactic after FM19 :D much more reproduction conformity 

DLF(s) moves and passes

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DLF(s) passes which he received

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20 minutes ago, s1111 said:

Referees in most leagues are broken because they either have 1 or 20 for discipline attributes which affects cards and penalties.

This is speculation. The ME team are reviewing.

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Usually I agree with critics of FM but for now I stop to understand critics of ME. Just played one game with CAM, during game he looked pretty good, not 10/10 in IRL imitation, but 8.5 at least.

Actually I can't remember this from times of FM12 (if I don't confuse anything), he holds almost all distantions, keep formation and works for team @Jack Joyce glad to see your and ME Team success after hard work :applause:

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Edited by Novem9
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2 hours ago, wicksyFM said:

Not everyone reads the forums. Football Managers twitter account has nearly 300k followers. Thats a big reach, and people deserve to know before potentially wasting time. Personally im not bothered. Im working the rest of the week. I can wait

You know I said I'm working the rest of the week. I'm not now. Got a next couple of days off. So hurry up 🤣

Just kidding. Take your time

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20 minutes ago, santy001 said:

There's a hotfix due to be deployed for the determination issue as soon as its ready. 

which may or may not need a new save to resolve players who do not have the attributes set in the db for start of game.

SI to confirm in due course how the fix works 

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32 minutes ago, hazzabish said:

And on that note - it's still the case that the ai makes stupidly low offers for our players while we have to break the bank to get theirs.

I have the opposite issue, just sold three squad players for way more than their value without doing anything. Premier league teams falling over themselves to make increasingly higher bids.

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40 minutes ago, Glenn Wakeford said:

Please don't spread misinformation, we haven't said this.

Will referee fixes be compatible with current saves? I've a day 1 save a few seasons in, and refs didnt start throwing penalties about until one of the patches came out. I'd ideally like to continue it but the amount of penalties put me off completely.

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47 minutes ago, s1111 said:

I think it is worth emphasizing how bad the attribute bug is, so I'm going to spell it out.

It ruins the lower levels where most attributes are randomly set. Most players will have 1 for all personality and hidden attributes 

Many wonderkids are now useless.

Referees in most leagues are broken because they either have 1 or 20 for discipline attributes which affects cards and penalties.

Any fix will not be save game compatible.

Basically don't start a new save until is a fix.

I didn't know it was effecting referees too.

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Any thoughts on the inverted winger? Personally I think it’s a little more passive than I was expecting, especially in regards to dribbling with the ball, although it works really well when creating overloads and plays some nice through balls from out-wide. 

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5 minutes ago, jc577 said:

Any thoughts on the inverted winger? Personally I think it’s a little more passive than I was expecting, especially in regards to dribbling with the ball, although it works really well when creating overloads and plays some nice through balls from out-wide. 

As I understand it that's the point? A more reserved and creative player than the IF who looks to attack the box more directly with runs etc. 

I've had some good success pairing an IW-S with a WB-A behind him. The IW-S drifts inside and positions himself in the half space which opens up the space for my attacking full back to move into. Working as I envisaged. My IW-S is averaging one goal for every two assists over the course of a full season. 

Edited by craigcwwe
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4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Will referee fixes be compatible with current saves? I've a day 1 save a few seasons in, and refs didnt start throwing penalties about until one of the patches came out. I'd ideally like to continue it but the amount of penalties put me off completely.

We don't have that information yet and I wouldn't want to speculate as these issues aren't in my area.

We will update people with information when this is known to us/when the patch is ready. Thanks. :)

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