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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

This is so frustrating. Trying to see out a game for the last couple of minutes. As defensive as I can go.

Capture.thumb.PNG.5dfa821fde27bc72b0ef33106a91e452.PNG

I realise of course that this invites pressure, that's fine, I have no issue with that. I can handle being undone by some skillful dribbling or great off the ball movement but why am I still able to be beaten by a long ball over the top?

Why is my team still so high up the pitch? I'm as defensive as I can get.

Wow, that should not happen. Anything in the PI's or OI's that could influence that? When I pull my defensive line back to 'standard', on a cautious mentality, this almost never happened to me throughout an entire season. Your setting are much more defensive than what I use. Doesn't make sense at all.

 

Edited by bleventozturk

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Wow, that should not happen. Anything in the PI's or OI's that could influence that?

 

I don't use OI's. The only PI is close down less on the central defenders.

 

EDIT: Actually no I don't even have close down less, that is on my main tactic.

Edited by Tiger666

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1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

I don't use OI's. The only PI is close down less on the central defenders.

This may be a good pkm for SI to look at and see what is going on.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Obviously we are playing the same game, and I am obviously not a tactical guru. Our experience is completely different, because the ME is not well balanced yet. I mean, somebody earlier said his CCC conversion rate was, what like 7%?, and mine is above 70%!!! That should not happen. Svenc documented this well enough already (how some CCC's are not really CCC's and all that), so I am not going to go into that discussion again here, but certainly the big issues in the current ME are the cause of your experience and mine being drastically different. Having said that, I find the current ME enjoyable still, but if I could, I would combine the FM 17 ME with everything else in FM 20 :)

 

I've only started one save. I had my fair share of 1v1, zombie defender, long ball, poor defensive header in the first season but those have gradually diminished. Is something established at the generation of a save that could lead to such differing experiences between players?

I'm looking forward to the patch but not looking forward to having to tweak everything again.... 

Edited by janrzm

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1 minute ago, bleventozturk said:

This may be a good pkm for SI to look at and see what is going on.

Sigh.. I guess. tbh I'm getting rather fed up with it all. I seem to be spending more time creating bug reports and uploading PKMs than playing the game.

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5 minutes ago, janrzm said:

I've only started one save. I had my fair share of 1v1, zombie defender, long ball, poor defensive header in the first season but those have gradually diminished. Is something established at the generation of a save that could lead to such differing experiences between players?

I'm looking forward to the patch but not looking forward to having to tweak everything again.... 

I like that bolded description you use, very accurate :)

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

This is so frustrating. Trying to see out a game for the last couple of minutes. As defensive as I can go.

Capture.thumb.PNG.5dfa821fde27bc72b0ef33106a91e452.PNG

I realise of course that this invites pressure, that's fine, I have no issue with that. I can handle being undone by some skillful dribbling or great off the ball movement but why am I still able to be beaten by a long ball over the top?

Why is my team still so high up the pitch? I'm as defensive as I can get. Not to mention the pirlo ball from a defender with 12 passing and vision.

And keyboard sales rise........:seagull:

In the last hour I noticed this on the counter attacking 4-4-2 I was working on, so high up the pitch despite the much lower defensive line......

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1 hour ago, Travis Bickle said:

Yes, but playing with FM Classic means I still have to use the lesser ME that we've grown accustomed to. My point was, people love FM for the team building and the ME. SI would do well to go back to what their core product is. We've seen an increase in gimmicks and a decrease in actual quality. That's what my post was about. 

But the people within SI who work on the ME don't have anything to do with any other part of the game. Reducing 'gimmicks' doesn't make the ME any better. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, janrzm said:

And keyboard sales rise........:seagull:

In the last hour I noticed this on the counter attacking 4-4-2 I was working on, so high up the pitch despite the much lower defensive line......

Do you think it is because the TI is not registering somehow, or is this caused by something else interfering? If this is not working as intended, it is a major bug.

Edited by bleventozturk

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21 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But the people within SI who work on the ME don't have anything to do with any other part of the game. Reducing 'gimmicks' doesn't make the ME any better. 

True but less resources devoted to gimmicks means more resources dedicated to the match engine ie: more competent staff employed.

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2 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

True but less resources devoted to gimmicks means more resources dedicated to the match engine ie: more competent staff employed.

That's really not how it works, but thanks for you input. 

And it's also highly disrespectful to the current staff. 

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1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

and for your information ive devoted more time and money into this game than you've had hot dinners,

I would seriously doubt that. 

1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

if am not happy with a product or how the product is getting run I can voice my opinion for the worse or good.

No-one has said otherwise, just as others have the right to pull you up on your opinions. 

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

I would seriously doubt that. 

No-one has said otherwise, just as others have the right to pull you up on your opinions. 

Just like you've  been pulled up for questioning the feedback from users that have invested there good hard earned money, and I haven't been questioned about my feedback because my best interest is always football manager, and unless you have been playing this game since championship manager 2 then you aren't really on my level.

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9 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

True but less resources devoted to gimmicks means more resources dedicated to the match engine ie: more competent staff employed.

So which members of the staff do you consider incompetent then?  Maybe that part of the sentence could do with re-wording?

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2 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Just like you've  been pulled up for questioning the feedback from users that have invested there good hard earned money, and I haven't been questioned about my feedback because my best interest is always football manager, and unless you have been playing this game since championship manager 2 then you aren't really on my level.

Been playing it since the red boxed original in 1993, and have been playing management games since the PROPER original in 1982. 

Looks like you don't 'AlwaysWin' after all :lol:

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1 minute ago, FrazT said:

So which members of the staff do you consider incompetent then?  Maybe that part of the sentence could do with re-wording?

Well like any job in life, if someone isn't happy with the job being done, they have a right to question said job being done, especially when they are paying for the privilege.

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Just now, bleventozturk said:

 Make him a moderator already :thup:

 

No mate, there would be no posts left :lol:

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I am more interested in hearing from y'all and SI about that example up there about the deep defensive line instruction not working.

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1 minute ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Well like any job in life, if someone isn't happy with the job being done, they have a right to question said job being done, especially when they are paying for the privilege.

Nobody is questioning your right to complain and voice their concerns.  What I am alluding to is the right to suggest that the SI staff are not competent.  I am giving you the option to edit your own post.

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4 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I am more interested in hearing from y'all and SI about that example up there about the deep defensive line instruction not working.

Must have been raised or queried in the bug thread, I'll head over and take a look.....I was looking for a reason to leave. :lol: 

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1 hour ago, Tiger666 said:

I realise of course that this invites pressure, that's fine, I have no issue with that. I can handle being undone by some skillful dribbling or great off the ball movement but why am I still able to be beaten by a long ball over the top?

Why is my team still so high up the pitch? I'm as defensive as I can get. Not to mention the pirlo ball from a defender with 12 passing and vision.

Yeah d-line looks too high for that setting. But major issue here is your DC number 5. He should be positioned much closer to opposition striker then he would intercept that pass without problem. No team or player would defend so naive.

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Number 5 is even moving awey from where he should be, opening space for striker. Ball falls exactlly where he should be positioned.

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Sorry, the balls over the top just ruins the game experience for me.. and i actually believe this ME is good,but i just cant play with it and enjoy

hope for fix

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Great to see FM 20 being the best FM ever with the fastest growing sales. I think Miles tweeted that it reached the fastest million sales mark and have the highest ever concurrent players. 

With so many enjoying this game, wonder what's the complaints in this thread about long balls and what nots. 

Great work SI

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16 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

Great to see FM 20 being the best FM ever with the fastest growing sales. I think Miles tweeted that it reached the fastest million sales mark and have the highest ever concurrent players. 

With so many enjoying this game, wonder what's the complaints in this thread about long balls and what nots. 

Great work SI

Basically the two main problems are too many missed one on ones and too many balls over the top of defences. I think otherwise the match engine seems pretty good but these two are alarmingly bad. 

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7 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

I would suggest a large portion of FM players are casual. They pick a team, download a tactic without understanding anything about it, lookup all the version wonderkids to buy (Haaland anyone?) and rush through using instant results or at the most, key highlights. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that but they miss out a lot of things that long-time players notice. The kind of people that tend to hang about in these threads and spend time submitting bug reports are the more hardcore players that are interested in the mechanics, the details, the spreadsheets, the finer points the majority may not pick up on. A lot of the points raised in here are perfectly valid and it would be wrong to dismiss them. Sales are not the best judge of quality.

They also may be frustrated and have queries of their own, and either do not know this forum exists or do not care to post here.

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8 hours ago, Travis Bickle said:

You have to change your tactics a bit every season otherwise the AI knows how to play you. 

FWIW, this isn't correct. The AI adjusts to rep and form. There's no working out how to counter your tactic. It can adjust to be more attacking or more defensive and that can affect how effective you are, of course.

 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

FWIW, this isn't correct. The AI adjusts to rep and form. There's no working out how to counter your tactic. It can adjust to be more attacking or more defensive and that can affect how effective you are, of course.

 

Very sad to hear that. Neither rep or form should affect tactics AI uses.. :/ or at least in addition it should calculate attributes of the players compare them and decide what tactic to use. It has to compare players.. of course it affects? ;)

Edited by Pasonen

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

FWIW, this isn't correct. The AI adjusts to rep and form. There's no working out how to counter your tactic. It can adjust to be more attacking or more defensive and that can affect how effective you are, of course.

 

I'm seeing changes on the opposition tactics if they're playing against my team. For example, a manager who prefers 4-1-4-1 DM Wide (the one with AMR-AML) switches to 4-1-4-1 DM (using MR-ML) if his team is visiting mine. Is it related to the AI manager's tactical preference or my teams's league standing?

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Just now, glosoli said:

I'm seeing changes on the opposition tactics if they're playing against my team. For example, a manager who prefers 4-1-4-1 DM Wide (the one with AMR-AML) switches to 4-1-4-1 DM (using MR-ML) if his team is visiting mine. Is it related to the AI manager's tactical preference or my teams's league standing?

Could be either or even both.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Obviously we are playing the same game, and I am obviously not a tactical guru. Our experience is completely different, because the ME is not well balanced yet. I mean, somebody earlier said his CCC conversion rate was, what like 7%?, and mine is above 70%!!! That should not happen. 

 

I wouldn't believe in a CCC conversion of 7% (over the entire Season) until I saw it. Even the exploit tactic had converted over 60% of its CCCs, and that was a Primary Focus on the Long balls / Buggy one on ones.  I think that guy meant the shot conversion, which is different. :D 

As to the feeling that there may be different games out there: There are different Releases out there… there's an Arsenal Special Edition for a start. :P (kidding)

http://dailycannon.com/2015/08/wenger-plays-down-concerns-about-finishing/

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/15118/10189870/wasteful-arsenals-premier-league-title-hopes-hit-by-poor-finishing

Edited by Svenc

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11 hours ago, Travis Bickle said:

Yes, but playing with FM Classic means I still have to use the lesser ME that we've grown accustomed to. My point was, people love FM for the team building and the ME. SI would do well to go back to what their core product is. We've seen an increase in gimmicks and a decrease in actual quality. That's what my post was about. 

Didn't SI state that the ME For Classic is the same as the regular one? Or have I dreamt it?

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Posted (edited)
hace 10 horas, Tiger666 dijo:

This is so frustrating. Trying to see out a game for the last couple of minutes. As defensive as I can go.

Capture.thumb.PNG.5dfa821fde27bc72b0ef33106a91e452.PNG

I realise of course that this invites pressure, that's fine, I have no issue with that. I can handle being undone by some skillful dribbling or great off the ball movement but why am I still able to be beaten by a long ball over the top?

Why is my team still so high up the pitch? I'm as defensive as I can get. Not to mention the pirlo ball from a defender with 12 passing and vision.

 

For me it's the other way around, most of my goals are scored that way (btw my strikers score plenty of 1on1), but that it benefits me doesn't mean I'm happy, as my tactic is based around short passing controlled attack, while most of my goals come from counters exactly like you showed in that video, and it's always a pass from one of my wingbacks that are not specially good passers.  

Edited by Icy

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My latest "feedback" update on the game, in no particular order:

It's interesting that I found the ball over the top very annoying up until my last save (started a new Liverpool save about a week ago) and now I have very few issues with 1v1s and long balls over the top.

Amount of CCCs has also gone down in this latest save. Again, not sure if my tactic is really bad and the pure quality of my Liverpool side hides that fact or if it's something else. But last season 8 CCCs in a game was the most I had and that included a single situation that generated 3 of those after the goalie made several world class saves in short order. Our conversion rate on CCCs are around 60-70% which is more than satisfactory in this case.

I still have too many shots (a match with less than 30 shots are uncommon) and miss too many but at least, and I really don't know if it's my tactic or not, I don't see 5+ 1v1s per game or perfect long balls all the time. Not from our side or from the oppositions side.

Penalties are an issue, especially for elite sides it seems. I never had issues with missing penalties when I played three seasons in the lower leagues of Swedish football but Salah, Milner and Fabinho almost never scores a penalty.

Players trying to save a loose ball from going out and then almost always end up standing still on it until an opposing player arrives and snatch it is a pretty prominent annoyance.

All in all I'm enjoying myself (I just wish Man U were worse ;)).

 

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5 minutes ago, Icy said:

 

For me it's the other way around, most of my goals are scored that way (btw my strikers score plenty of 1on1), but that it benefits me doesn't mean I'm happy, as my tactic is based around short passing controlled attack, while most of my goals come from counters exactly like you showed in that video, and it's always a pass from one of my wingbacks that are not specially good passers.  

Yes, I am no way complaining simply because it was scored against me, I often do this to the AI and it feels pretty cheap unless I am specifically looking to play that way. My normal way of playing (at the moment at least) is balanced, shorter passing, trying to play a patient probing game yet I so often find myself winning games by these long balls. I find it irritating sometimes even when I win games this way.

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb Mitja:

Number 5 is even moving awey from where he should be, opening space for striker. Ball falls exactlly where he should be positioned.

This happens all the time when balls are played over the top 

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3 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Too many pens are missed imo.

All my penalties are low shots and whenever the opposite GK goes to the side where the penalty taker shoots, he saves the penalty.

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15 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

All my penalties are low shots and whenever the opposite GK goes to the side where the penalty taker shoots, he saves the penalty.

I've reported this twice over two separate match engines, neither have been acknowledged but I'm sure it's in hand 

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1 hour ago, Karnack said:

Players trying to save a loose ball from going out and then almost always end up standing still on it until an opposing player arrives and snatch it is a pretty prominent annoyance.

I would agree with this.

The long balls/missed 1 on 1's are the main issue - but then this and also missed penalties in terms of the ME need to be fixed imo.

I think also the AI being too defensive means gameplay gets dull.  One game I played recently with me in 2nd vs the 3rd place team - I was looking forward to them doing something different against me, but... they parked the bus.  I've just got promoted, so I'll probably be the one parking the bus now though, although I'll still have an AML and AMR and won't go below cautious and most often play on balanced.  I've been seeing a lot of 3 central defenders with 2 DM's in front - all sat very deep with a defensive mentality.  I do get SI want realism - but there's a line there because FM is a game and it should be fun - so less park the bus, please.

I'm doing the San Marino Challenge, so I need to press on through the leagues, but I'm not playing as much as I was in FM19.  I had 2 weeks off work over Christmas and wanted to put tons of time into my save, but I ended up buying a different game and sinking more time into that simply as I wasn't enjoying FM20.

Things all look fairly sensible in terms of results - but it's tough to watch on extended highlights, particularly game after game of the AI putting everyone behind the ball, and the missed 1 on 1's etc. etc.  Watching on key highlights I don't feel like I'm in control and have a feel for who's playing well/badly and what changes I need to make.  I'm no tactical mastermind, but I do like to try.  As someone said above - most people are more casual players - they download a super-tactic, play on key highlights (or instant result) and then things probably look better.  They enjoy playing the game that way - and fair play to them - but to me it feels shallow and I want the tactical challenge, even though it can be hard to learn through my stupid mistakes!  But playing this way, I'm not enjoying matches at the moment - the team building stuff is still great fun - but I'm enjoying the off-season far more than the actual season.

I'd like to see SI really get out in front of this - there are pages and pages of comments over the Christmas/New Year period (and before) - with a pretty strong consensus as to the issues.  I understand the complexity of the ME and any change has knock-on effects - but, to me at least, it makes customer service sense to let us know you are working on fixing these specific issues - or if/why you don't see them as being a problem.  I think most of us would understand it's going to take time to fix - and we'd rather it was fixed properly - so wouldn't expect a patch TODAY - but a rough timescale would be great.  If I know a patch is coming in a couple of weeks, I'll take a break - but if it's March, then I might play differently - go super-tactic and key highlights as I'll still have the fun of building a team.

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11 ore fa, upthetoon ha scritto:

Great to see FM 20 being the best FM ever with the fastest growing sales. I think Miles tweeted that it reached the fastest million sales mark and have the highest ever concurrent players. 

With so many enjoying this game, wonder what's the complaints in this thread about long balls and what nots. 

Great work SI

In my opinion sales are definitely a termoter on how good a product is, but for certain aspects videogames are a different story, especially when we're talking about one established software like FM is. Or Fifa is or Pes is. Sales might wave from lower to higher but standards are high by default.

So stating FM20 is a good product only because it sold so much and so fast (and sales includes also mobile versions) could be misleading. In example, we now have FM sold on more than one platform - mobiles, Nintendo Switch - so I personally don't know how many copies FM sold for PC version, how many for android/iPhone version, how many for Switch. And how those sales compare to past year sales.

People keep purchasing FM whatever the quality, which from one point of view is a good thing because it means the legacy will continue. From another point of view though it could disguise the real value of the product. Luckily SI is very attentive to the feedback from users, no matter the sales, and nobody can deny this.

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I think that in the real world, and by that i mean outside these foruns, que large majoraty os FM players judge the game by a simple barometer: Am i winning or not? Am i getting the results i'm suppose to have or not? Am i overachiving or not?

If they are, then many bugs, or issues, and in particulary bugs or issues related with the ME get minorize.

So to me, the majority of FM players care more about things like the UI, or league bugs (rules and stuff), or issues with the database, 3D graphics,and no so much with the ME and how the ME is more, or less, a real life image of football.

And so, its natural that the game is beating sales records, edition after edition, because in those areas the games is always getting better, in oppose to the ME that varies more in terms of...lets say quality.

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Il gioco è bel fatto una cosa che da fastidio sono alcuni bug sia grafici che 1vs 1. Si spera che gli sviluppatori rilasciano presto una patch.. Si era detto che sarebbe uscita nel nuovo anno gli ultimi aggiornamenti risalgono al 19 dicembre. 

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I know this might be swearing in a church (famous Norwegian proverb) here, at least compared to a lot of the recent posts, but I really like the current Match Engine. And I've pretty much liked it since I first started FM20 back in the Beta-days. For the whole time, I've seen a lot of complaints and issues, but I don't know if I'm the luckiest guy FM-wise, but I don't see the issues to the extent of others here.

Yes, there are issues with 1v1. For me, the issue lies with there being too many of them. Previously, wing play have been too strong and balls through the centre has been poor. I think the dial it turned a bit too much the other way now. But in general I see a lot of different goals in my matches. Clever 1-2's, through balls, crosses, set pieces, etc.

Tactically, the team are playing as I want, and my tactic works for the most part. I've reported some issues with the Halfback role being too advanced when the ball is in the final third, as well as a few other niggles here and there. In general, I'm really enjoying it and I've racked up about 350 hours so far.

Outside of the match engine, I really like the new youth development, as well as the club vision. Not that any of those are major new features, they are nice add-ons that gives me a better way of doing things.

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3 minutes ago, XaW said:

I know this might be swearing in a church (famous Norwegian proverb) here, at least compared to a lot of the recent posts, but I really like the current Match Engine.

Not at all - a game, a TV show, a film - all subjective.  If you are enjoying the game, then more power to you!

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