Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[haffaz77]

Is there no "Public Beta" thing for FM 20 ? Last Year there were a few Public Betas before they got Live . 

[Novem9]

1 час назад, Neil Brock сказал:

This is absolutely not the case and has been spread as misinformation on these forums for as long as I can remember. Each game is decided based on all the various factors going into the match, such as weather conditions, player morale, the referee, player form - absolutely everything. Of course there's random elements on the match day which can change this further (such as injuries, reactions to conceded, tactical changes etc), but the game absolutely does not 'schedule you to lose'. 

Is it still private info about the nearest plans of SI? I mean are you planning to release an update ASAP or it will be classic update with update database bundle?

[Cursedyou]

I’ve been pushed over the edge. Officially done with this beautiful yet absolutely broken game. 
 

Highest chances created in the league by 45! Yet I’ve scored 29 LESS goals than the highest scores

My chance conversion rate was 7% which was 19th in the league but had the likes of Lautaro Martinez, Esposito, Havertz playing for me. Seriously seriously struggled to score any type of shot and especially 1vs1 situations.

Best defensive record in the league with the most chances created yet finished miles behind the AI Liverpool and Man City who ofc are unaffected by this. 
 

I missed a total of TWELVE 1on1s against Southampton at home, a penalty, 2 open goals and hit the bar/post 3 times which was a record for me, usually it’s 5-8 1on1s alone per game. 
 

if you miss a penalty (Which you have approx an 80% chance of doing despite Jorginho’s great stats for pens) their keeper gets a green rating and thus becomes almost invincible and your players shoot straight at him every single time. 
 

I’m not angry, I’m just so disappointed in SI and this game this year. So much potential yet ultimate it fails at the fundamentals Of the game, the actual football match itself. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Cursedyou

[Sharkn20]

1 hour ago, haffaz77 said:

Is there no "Public Beta" thing for FM 20 ? Last Year there were a few Public Betas before they got Live . 

Lol, you are 3 months late to the party. Yet the game still look like the Beta version.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sharkn20

[Connor]

35 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Is it still private info about the nearest plans of SI? I mean are you planning to release an update ASAP or it will be classic update with update database bundle?

I believe, this being clarified would be helpful, either way 

The post made by Neil Brock, suggests unlikely before the new year and we are in that period now, which I believe SI are working on asap . However, that could also mean waiting until March, which could be an additional 2 months 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Connor

[Neil Brock]

5 minutes ago, Connor said:

I believe, this being clarified would be helpful, either way 

The post made by Neil Brock, suggests unlikely before the new year and we are in that period now, which I believe SI are working on asap . However, that could also mean waiting until March, which could be an additional 2 months 

We're always working on the game across all areas with the aim of improving it and fixing issues with any update. We're unable to give exact time frames in regards to updates/hotfixes due to the nature of software development, but if I'm able to provide more info at any point I'll do so. 

Thanks. 

[Viking]

A big thank you to whoever (can't find the post right now) wrote about using early crosses and faster pace against those annoying defensive sit back type of tactics. I can actually win games now.

[Travis Bickle]

17 hours ago, Travis Bickle said:

I don't want to bother or be rude, but is there any idea whether the fix for the UEFA coefficients issue will be save game compatible?

Anything?

Edited January 8, 2020 by Travis Bickle

[Toshevbgg]

12 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

You are absolutely right in this one, and I don't think anybody is denying that the total number of shots is crazy in FM 20. But long balls over the top are only 1 reason that contributes to it, and there are others to it. For example, in my games what really escalades the number of shots is the poor clearances by the defenders. There are cases when a team takes 3-4 shots within 30 seconds (which happens several times in a single match, so do the math) because the defense keeps heading the ball back to the attacking players' feet, failing to clear it properly. The only thing some people (including me) don't agree with here is the argument that the excessive and unrealistic long balls  over the top happens no matter what you do. Any yes, it should not happen those many times in any setup, so it needs to be fixed, hopefully together with the other stuff that causes too many shots. 

The number of shots have always been too high in FM, but it got worse in FM 20.

Edit: I also want to reiterate that my team's CCC conversion rate (after 1 whole season now) is much higher than real life (finished the year with above 70%), and it is not because I have super strikers. I don't know how this is all coded of course, only SI does, but in my experience the setups that exploit a weakness in the ME and produce a lot of CCC's typically also come with low conversion ratios. Is that so because the ME somehow artificially nerfes the conversion rates to prevent unrealistically high scores, we don't know, and I don't expect SI to reveal the specifics on this. But I know that I would not prefer if those unrealistically created CCC's get converted with realistic ratios and we end up with cricket scores. Having said that, of course I also hope that SI will find a way to stop that, and then recalibrate the conversions to still produce reasonable results. 

P.S.: With my high conversion rate, I did have several matches where I scored 3 goals with only 10-12 shots of which 5-6 were on target. 

I am very worried because the issues are not "small". I mean they have to totally fix the match engine to produce much less chances and that you can score them. If they fix conversion rate we will finisg 6-5 games so they have to fix both things. 

I mean I have never dwelved on ME problems in the past. The only disparity I have seen that really bothered me was like 10 years ago when you put an ARROW on your MC for example to go to strikers and opposition players failed to cover him so he turned into goal scoring machines

Also for me AI has always been aggresive and looking to murder me . When I was weaker team I could win against the other minnows but going away to Chelsea/Arsenal/United I was always up for trashing . This year when I was bad team I won some of those games cuz AI kept missing and missing 

 

[IrrelevantLion]

3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

This is absolutely not the case and has been spread as misinformation on these forums for as long as I can remember. Each game is decided based on all the various factors going into the match, such as weather conditions, player morale, the referee, player form - absolutely everything. Of course there's random elements on the match day which can change this further (such as injuries, reactions to conceded, tactical changes etc), but the game absolutely does not 'schedule you to lose'. 

If there is no artificial manipulation, then why do cup games almost always go to penalties? The cup games play entirely differently to league games. Do cup games have a hidden mental affect on the players? Is this done to keep the cup game stats similar to real life cup game stats? 

[Ruh Roh]

1 hour ago, Connor said:

I believe, this being clarified would be helpful, either way 

The post made by Neil Brock, suggests unlikely before the new year and we are in that period now, which I believe SI are working on asap . However, that could also mean waiting until March, which could be an additional 2 months 

If you look on steamdb (https://steamdb.info/app/1100600/history/) they recently made changes to "si-bvt" (build verification test), which looks like a test they run right before releasing the new version. I noticed it the day before they dropped 20.2. But I don't want to mislead you, I'm just reading tea leaves; they could want to run tests for any reason, or maybe it came back with something they need to work on.

[Mcfc1894]

2 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Lol, you are 3 months late to the party. Yet the game still look like the Beta version.

Public Beta isn't the atcual beta it was something they did last year while the game was out so people can test updated Match Engines 

[Novem9]

strange feeling when the 7-year-old edition has more order. I don't say it better but it looks more clear. Less chaotic or something else.
FM20 has more potential, more roles, more TI, but a little gremlin doesn't want to give me things I want  

[Lucas]

34 minutes ago, Ruh Roh said:

If you look on steamdb (https://steamdb.info/app/1100600/history/) they recently made changes to "si-bvt" (build verification test), which looks like a test they run right before releasing the new version. I noticed it the day before they dropped 20.2. But I don't want to mislead you, I'm just reading tea leaves; they could want to run tests for any reason, or maybe it came back with something they need to work on.

Just to clarify - we run build tests on Steam branches every day, so it's no indication of a public release update I'm afraid. There isn't really any value in reading into the information on steamdb.info, as it will flag up even the smallest of things, even things that are not related to a new version of the game.

[Svenc]

14 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Edit: I also want to reiterate that my team's CCC conversion rate (after 1 whole season now) is much higher than real life (finished the year with above 70%), and it is not because I have super strikers. I don't know how this is all coded of course, only SI does, but in my experience the setups that exploit a weakness in the ME and produce a lot of CCC's typically also come with low conversion ratios. Is that so because the ME somehow artificially nerfes the conversion rates to prevent unrealistically high scores

It's typically because exploits are rarely build around Football logics, e.g. on the attacking end, overly focused on one way of scoring and / or specific Kind of Players doing so. All they need is an off day, and that specific Chance being "bugged".... then the exploit tactic struggles to create other avenus of scoring, in particular on Releases without set piece exploits -- the current exploit schtick of throwing masses of players Forward and Keep the pitch compact naturally oft makes for a crazy amount of purely set piece attempts itself.

One of the reasons why the tactical Portion of this Forum (that is minus the download one….) has Always promoted the idea of creating multi-dimensional tactics, as opposed to one-dimensional ones. I think you had seen that screenshot I posted where like a huge percentage off assists was created purely from the Long ball with the exploit tactic… AI Managers likewise had never been coded to be overly one-dimensional so far (what with them changing Things during the match, they couldn't be either way).

Edited January 8, 2020 by Svenc

[Gee_Simpson]

2 hours ago, Viking said:

A big thank you to whoever (can't find the post right now) wrote about using early crosses and faster pace against those annoying defensive sit back type of tactics. I can actually win games now.

I think it was @Rashidi 

[Travis Bickle]

I've been thinking about my enjoyment and addiction to Football Manager over the years. I've played this game far more than I should have in my life because I could just never get enough of it. The thing is, this is starting to change. 

There's no doubt the game is as immersive as ever. Every single time I think to myself how can SI even improve on this level of engagement? It's perfect, and then the new edition comes out and it's even more immersive and realistic. 

The issue is, for all this immersion, do I actually enjoy the game any more than I did 10 years ago? The answer is clearly, no. I do not. The strength of this game has always been the ME and the joy of squad building. That's all it is for I'd say 90% of us. Is the ME enjoyable? Can I still build my squad how I want? I feel like the game has just gotten unnecessarily complicated with features that are nice, but are not the core essence of why people play this game. Development centres, club vision, expanded staff support roles are nice, but they aren't what makes me pay £40 for the game. 

I would fork out £40 every year for a game that had a perfect ME and basic squad building functions that stayed the same and just had a data update,  honestly. 

This game has become almost a religion in football that's entered popular references and been endorsed by actual professionals. It has this reputation for a reason, but I think maybe SI are losing sight of what made it so great.

I really wish going forward SI would just go back to basics. Give us a great ME and the ability to build our favourite teams, our 3rd division Romanian team we picked up in a journeyman save, or revamp a fallen giant with youth, and let the game be imo. 

[emil_sbn]

1 hour ago, Ruh Roh said:

If you look on steamdb (https://steamdb.info/app/1100600/history/) they recently made changes to "si-bvt" (build verification test), which looks like a test they run right before releasing the new version. I noticed it the day before they dropped 20.2. But I don't want to mislead you, I'm just reading tea leaves; they could want to run tests for any reason, or maybe it came back with something they need to work on.

 

26 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Just to clarify - we run build tests on Steam branches every day, so it's no indication of a public release update I'm afraid. There isn't really any value in reading into the information on steamdb.info, as it will flag up even the smallest of things, even things that are not related to a new version of the game.

When one man just lights my hope another one quickly comes in and kills it 😔

[glosoli]

47 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Just to clarify - we run build tests on Steam branches every day, so it's no indication of a public release update I'm afraid. There isn't really any value in reading into the information on steamdb.info, as it will flag up even the smallest of things, even things that are not related to a new version of the game.

So, you are saying that the patch might even come tonight? Great news!

[hagedisboy]

I've tried my best not to be annoyed when my attackers do stupid things like not passing the ball, but instead shooting from an impossible angle, shooting straight at the keeper 15 times a match, not moving at all when the opposition plays a long ball so their striker goes 1 on 1 (and he does score, in contrast to my striker), because like the mods here do say very often, things like these happen in real life as well. It is true, but this year it happens far and far too often in the game. I get that I can't always win even when I'm the better side, and I wouldn't have it any other way because it's football, but I lost count to how often I actually am the better side, with by far better players, and it ends in 0-0 or 1-1 (at least 15 shots on target for me tot at most 4 for my opponent). My teams just can't score, even though we create at the very least 5 CCC's every match. I am the manager of Ajax, last season in real life they scored 122 goals in the league and this year they are on 58 goals after 18 games in the league, but in FM they struggle to score 1 of 2 goals at home to teams that are rock bottom. And no, it's not my tactics because like I said, we create a lot of CCC's.

I really do hope you guys release an update very soon, because I will not play the game anymore until there's an update. I can't believe how you SI guys are still defending the ME, I've never seen so many complaints about the game. It is just not fun to play anymore. I removed FM19 from my laptop because otherwise there would be no space for FM20, but god do I regret that. The FM19 ME was far better than this year's one and I really really hope this will change soon because if it doesn't, I won't bother buying FM next year.

[emil_sbn]

2 minutes ago, hagedisboy said:

I've tried my best not to be annoyed when my attackers do stupid things like not passing the ball, but instead shooting from an impossible angle, shooting straight at the keeper 15 times a match, not moving at all when the opposition plays a long ball so their striker goes 1 on 1 (and he does score, in contrast to my striker), because like the mods here do say very often, things like these happen in real life as well. It is true, but this year it happens far and far too often in the game. I get that I can't always win even when I'm the better side, and I wouldn't have it any other way because it's football, but I lost count to how often I actually am the better side, with by far better players, and it ends in 0-0 or 1-1 (at least 15 shots on target for me tot at most 4 for my opponent). My teams just can't score, even though we create at the very least 5 CCC's every match. I am the manager of Ajax, last season in real life they scored 122 goals in the league and this year they are on 58 goals after 18 games in the league, but in FM they struggle to score 1 of 2 goals at home to teams that are rock bottom. And no, it's not my tactics because like I said, we create a lot of CCC's.

I really do hope you guys release an update very soon, because I will not play the game anymore until there's an update. I can't believe how you SI guys are still defending the ME, I've never seen so many complaints about the game. It is just not fun to play anymore. I removed FM19 from my laptop because otherwise there would be no space for FM20, but god do I regret that. The FM19 ME was far better than this year's one and I really really hope this will change soon because if it doesn't, I won't bother buying FM next year.

Have faith it might actually come tonight or tomorrow.

[saihtam]

55 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Just to clarify - we run build tests on Steam branches every day, so it's no indication of a public release update I'm afraid. There isn't really any value in reading into the information on steamdb.info, as it will flag up even the smallest of things, even things that are not related to a new version of the game.

Glad to see QA staff peaking in here. Hope comments here are not that demotivating for the team.

Not an easy job by mile. Keep it up and no pressure - hoping on all of you!

[IrrelevantLion]

Ever felt unlucky before?

Seriously. TWO defenders miss the tackle, and then 25 yard screamer. 

Classic FM. Overachieve first season, second season you get spanked. 

Fairly sure I'm going to get sacked after this game. 

[Pasonen]

@Neil Brock

Oh c'mon..

[saihtam]

5 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Ever felt unlucky before?

Seriously. TWO defenders miss the tackle, and then 25 yard screamer. 

Classic FM. Overachieve first season, second season you get spanked. 

Fairly sure I'm going to get sacked after this game. 

Uhhh that space in midfield. Are you playing 3 at the back and DM?

[IrrelevantLion]

Just now, saihtam said:

Uhhh that space in midfield. Are you playing 3 at the back and DM?

4-3-2-1 Genenpress, the two in midfield are BWM and DLP on defend.

[Lucas]

18 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Glad to see QA staff peaking in here. Hope comments here are not that demotivating for the team.

Not an easy job by mile. Keep it up and no pressure - hoping on all of you!

I've been lurking for years, even when I left for 12 months, I never did really 

[bleventozturk]

Can we get a word on the progress though? I am most interested in knowing if the unrealistic long balls are somewhat tied with the improved central play, and if the long balls are fixed is that going to cause the central play to disappear again, like in FM 19 and some previous builds of FM20? 

Personally I don't have a problem waiting until March or whenever, but it would be nice to know what is being targeted, and how it is looking so far in the latest test builds? Promising, or no breakthrough yet?

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, Travis Bickle said:

I really wish going forward SI would just go back to basics. Give us a great ME and the ability to build our favourite teams, our 3rd division Romanian team we picked up in a journeyman save, or revamp a fallen giant with youth, and let the game be imo. 

This is exactly why FM Classic was introduced in FM13 and has been there ever since. You don't like the bells and whistles of the main game and want to concentrate on just transfers and team building, then playing the matches? That's the mode for you. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 hours ago, IrrelevantLion said:

If there is no artificial manipulation, then why do cup games almost always go to penalties? 

They don't, what a bizarre observation. 

[ianscousemac]

2 hours ago, Toshevbgg said:

I am very worried because the issues are not "small". I mean they have to totally fix the match engine to produce much less chances and that you can score them. If they fix conversion rate we will finisg 6-5 games so they have to fix both things. 

I mean I have never dwelved on ME problems in the past. The only disparity I have seen that really bothered me was like 10 years ago when you put an ARROW on your MC for example to go to strikers and opposition players failed to cover him so he turned into goal scoring machines

Also for me AI has always been aggresive and looking to murder me . When I was weaker team I could win against the other minnows but going away to Chelsea/Arsenal/United I was always up for trashing . This year when I was bad team I won some of those games cuz AI kept missing and missing 

 

I agree, the ME changes aren’t going to be a quick fix. If one v ones got fixed the goals scored per game would be ridiculous.  The balls over the top also needs some work.  Penalty conversion and players ignoring the low cross instruction are also somethings that require looking into.

[IrrelevantLion]

Had my first successful save and consequently lots of fun. 

For one season. Then got sacked. 

Now my next team is **** too. 

That's like what.. 12 careers now? 100 hours in 20. It's BY FAR the hardest game so far. 

I can't bring myself to do this again. and again. i'm so goddamn frustrated wasting my time on this. 

[Travis Bickle]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

This is exactly why FM Classic was introduced in FM13 and has been there ever since. You don't like the bells and whistles of the main game and want to concentrate on just transfers and team building, then playing the matches? That's the mode for you. 

Yes, but playing with FM Classic means I still have to use the lesser ME that we've grown accustomed to. My point was, people love FM for the team building and the ME. SI would do well to go back to what their core product is. We've seen an increase in gimmicks and a decrease in actual quality. That's what my post was about. 

[Travis Bickle]

1 minute ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Had my first successful save and consequently lots of fun. 

For one season. Then got sacked. 

Now my next team is **** too. 

That's like what.. 12 careers now? 100 hours in 20. It's BY FAR the hardest game so far. 

I can't bring myself to do this again. and again. i'm so goddamn frustrated wasting my time on this. 

You have to change your tactics a bit every season otherwise the AI knows how to play you. 

[IrrelevantLion]

Just now, Travis Bickle said:

You have to change your tactics a bit every season otherwise the AI knows how to play you. 

I change the tactics and they don't work either.

Honestly half the goals I concede are in the box after a set piece. The ball pings around like a pinball. It's like playing a slot machine. 

It's literally painful inside for me to watch the same rubbish game after game. 

[cwilcox]

10 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Had my first successful save and consequently lots of fun. 

For one season. Then got sacked. 

Now my next team is **** too. 

That's like what.. 12 careers now? 100 hours in 20. It's BY FAR the hardest game so far. 

I can't bring myself to do this again. and again. i'm so goddamn frustrated wasting my time on this. 

I think you should retire...…………..LOL

 

[IrrelevantLion]

1 minute ago, cwilcox said:

I think you should retire...…………..LOL

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I have about 700 hours in football manager and enjoy the series. But I can't seem to do it anymore 

[janrzm]

35 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Had my first successful save and consequently lots of fun. 

For one season. Then got sacked. 

Now my next team is **** too. 

That's like what.. 12 careers now? 100 hours in 20. It's BY FAR the hardest game so far. 

I can't bring myself to do this again. and again. i'm so goddamn frustrated wasting my time on this. 

There's a positive side to this, honestly!!!

I'd argue that whilst the AI does require you to adapt your tactics from season to season (unless you have an exploit tactic) its still too slow to react under most circumstances. 

I played my first save, first season with HSV. A good team to start with as they have a strong squad and the Bundesliga 2 isn't that strong, with only 3-4 good teams. I sneaked promotion playing mostly attacking football and learning the nuances of this years ME, also dealing with its perceived flaws of which there are several.

The following season, my first in the Bundesliga I won the league playing more or less the same way because most teams underestimated us and played open attacking football against us. Totally unrealistic as I only strengthened a few positions, mid table would have been realistic for that squad.

Season three and the AI has eventually caught on, now a lot of teams park the bus and it's necessitated a change of approach. I alway set up three tactics, the way I want to play (attacking), a variation of that which is more balanced and a direct counter attacking tactic which sits back, invites pressure and hits teams with decisive counters. Also, I almost always tweak roles etc before games and during. For me, this adds realism, I hate the idea of using a tactic that just wins with no work on my part other than picking a team.

I think there are plenty of players on here that want and need the AI to be even more intelligent in the way it assess the opposition and even more fluid during games. Also, more aggressive when it needs to be. 

EDIT: I should just reiterate that some of the issues with this years ME are undoubtably causing additional frustration, myself included. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by janrzm

[IrrelevantLion]

19 minutes ago, janrzm said:

There's a positive side to this, honestly!!!

I'd argue that whilst the AI does require you to adapt your tactics from season to season (unless you have an exploit tactic) its still too slow to react under most circumstances. 

I played my first save, first season with HSV. A good team to start with as they have a strong squad and the Bundesliga 2 isn't that strong, with only 3-4 good teams. I sneaked promotion playing mostly attacking football and learning the nuances of this years ME, also dealing with its perceived flaws of which there are several.

The following season, my first in the Bundesliga I won the league playing more or less the same way because most teams underestimated us and played open attacking football against us. Totally unrealistic as I only strengthened a few positions, mid table would have been realistic for that squad.

Season three and the AI has eventually caught on, now a lot of teams park the bus and it's necessitated a change of approach. I alway set up three tactics, the way I want to play (attacking), a variation of that which is more balanced and a direct counter attacking tactic which sits back, invites pressure and hits teams with decisive counters. Also, I almost always tweak roles etc before games and during. For me, this adds realism, I hate the idea of using a tactic that just wins with no work on my part other than picking a team.

I think there are plenty of players on here that want and need the AI to be even more intelligent in the way it assess the opposition and even more fluid during games. Also, more aggressive when it needs to be. 

EDIT: I should just reiterate that some of the issues with this years ME are undoubtably causing additional frustration, myself included. 

I appreciate all of this. It's logical, I understand. But a lot of my frustrations come from illogical places in the game. When you try to apply logic to an idiotic pinball game in the box, and concede a goal from the madness that loses you the game, the lost vital points, the team gets unhappy, the board get unhappy. 

Also, is that necessarily true? Good teams aren't good in real life because they keep the opposition guessing with their tactics. Teams are good because they are GOOD AT THEIR TACTIC.

When this tactic becomes arbitrarily bad because you use it a lot, it feels a little cheap.

Edited January 8, 2020 by IrrelevantLion

[janrzm]

4 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

I appreciate all of this. It's logical, I understand. But a lot of my frustrations come from illogical places in the game. When you try to apply logic to an idiotic pinball game in the box, and concede a goal from the madness that loses you the game, the lost vital points, the team gets unhappy, the board get unhappy. 

Also, is that necessarily true? Good teams aren't good in real life because they keep the opposition guessing with their tactics. Teams are good because they are GOOD AT THEIR tactic. When this tactic becomes arbitrarily bad because you use it a lot, it feels a little cheap.

And I appreciate the frustrations because I also see those, It's annoyed the life out of me at times and I too parked the game for a while. I went back with a clear head and tried again, sure they are still there but you can diminish some of them enough to at least play without wanting to throw the keyboard across the room, mostly.... 

I think you're right with that second point, look at Liverpool, everyone knows how they'll play and at times it feels like they are just so good at it that everything else is almost inconsequential. In the most part though I think teams do have to adapt because being predictable can ultimately undermine the fact that you do something very well. It allows teams to plan in precise detail how they can spoil your tactic. I think we regularly see limited teams "spoil" the desired style/tactic of far superior teams?

[bleventozturk]

I still think the game is way too easy. I am not one of those tactical gurus that you can find in the tactics forum, who learn the ins and outs of the ME and start working on their tactics to optimize it based on the ME's strengths and weaknesses. Nope, in every FM I just setup a regular, logical, balanced tactic, with not many TI's and no PI's or OI's. I don't like experimenting a lot because I always fear that I will run into some exploit and will overachieve unintentionally. Instead I just find a few tactics that generate reasonable results in general, and settle with them. I do tweak the mentality and roles based on my opponents and based on the score of course.

I did the same in FM20, and my first season was a huge overachievement (expected to fight against relegation, currently 2nd in league with 3 games to go), and I am not sure if I should be happy, or sad that the game is too easy and provides no challenge. 

It was the same in my one season with FM19. I played FM17 a lot, and although still on the easier side, that ME provided some challenge, and I even got sacked once.

[janrzm]

8 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I still think the game is way too easy. I am not one of those tactical gurus that you can find in the tactics forum, who learn the ins and outs of the ME and start working on their tactics to optimize it based on the ME's strengths and weaknesses. Nope, in every FM I just setup a regular, logical, balanced tactic, with not many TI's and no PI's or OI's. I don't like experimenting a lot because I always fear that I will run into some exploit and will overachieve unintentionally. Instead I just find a few tactics that generate reasonable results in general, and settle with them. I do tweak the mentality and roles based on my opponents and based on the score of course.

I did the same in FM20, and my first season was a huge overachievement (expected to fight against relegation, currently 2nd in league with 3 games to go), and I am not sure if I should be happy, or sad that the game is too easy and provides no challenge. 

It was the same in my one season with FM19. I played FM17 a lot, and although still on the easier side, that ME provided some challenge, and I even got sacked once.

Yep, it's worth adding that I almost always start every FM version thinking its the hardest one yet as well. But, eventually you work through the ME nuances and adjust accordingly. I do feel this nagging "randomness" that has been referenced though so I totally get that. 

There's not much ground between doing well/it feels to easy and not doing well/it feels to hard. SI are almost on a hiding to nothing with that one. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by janrzm

[IrrelevantLion]

3 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

I still think the game is way too easy. I am not one of those tactical gurus that you can find in the tactics forum, who learn the ins and outs of the ME and start working on their tactics to optimize it based on the ME's strengths and weaknesses. Nope, in every FM I just setup a regular, logical, balanced tactic, with not many TI's and no PI's or OI's. I don't like experimenting a lot because I always fear that I will run into some exploit and will overachieve unintentionally. Instead I just find a few tactics that generate reasonable results in general, and settle with them. I do tweak the mentality and roles based on my opponents and based on the score of course.

I did the same in FM20, and my first season was a huge overachievement (expected to fight against relegation, currently 2nd in league with 3 games to go), and I am not sure if I should be happy, or sad that the game is too easy and provides no challenge. 

It was the same in my one season with FM19. I played FM17 a lot, and although still on the easier side, that ME provided some challenge, and I even got sacked once.

This is what I do. I feel like we are playing two different games.

[Tiger666]

This is so frustrating. Trying to see out a game for the last couple of minutes. As defensive as I can go.

I realise of course that this invites pressure, that's fine, I have no issue with that. I can handle being undone by some skillful dribbling or great off the ball movement but why am I still able to be beaten by a long ball over the top?

Why is my team still so high up the pitch? I'm as defensive as I can get. Not to mention the pirlo ball from a defender with 12 passing and vision.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Tiger666

[bleventozturk]

2 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

This is what I do. I feel like we are playing two different games.

Obviously we are playing the same game, and I am obviously not a tactical guru. Our experience is completely different, because the ME is not well balanced yet. I mean, somebody earlier said his CCC conversion rate was, what like 7%?, and mine is above 70%!!! That should not happen. Svenc documented this well enough already (how some CCC's are not really CCC's and all that), so I am not going to go into that discussion again here, but certainly the big issues in the current ME are the cause of your experience and mine being drastically different. Having said that, I find the current ME enjoyable still, but if I could, I would combine the FM 17 ME with everything else in FM 20

 

[bleventozturk]

6 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

This is so frustrating. Trying to see out a game for the last couple of minutes. As defensive as I can go.

I realise of course that this invites pressure, that's fine, I have no issue with that. I can handle being undone by some skillful dribbling or great off the ball movement but why am I still able to be beaten by a long ball over the top?

Why is my team still so high up the pitch? I'm as defensive as I can get.

Wow, that should not happen. Anything in the PI's or OI's that could influence that? When I pull my defensive line back to 'standard', on a cautious mentality, this almost never happened to me throughout an entire season. Your setting are much more defensive than what I use. Doesn't make sense at all.

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by bleventozturk

[Tiger666]

4 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Wow, that should not happen. Anything in the PI's or OI's that could influence that?

 

I don't use OI's. The only PI is close down less on the central defenders.

 

EDIT: Actually no I don't even have close down less, that is on my main tactic.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Tiger666

[bleventozturk]

1 minute ago, Tiger666 said:

I don't use OI's. The only PI is close down less on the central defenders.

This may be a good pkm for SI to look at and see what is going on.

[janrzm]

9 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Obviously we are playing the same game, and I am obviously not a tactical guru. Our experience is completely different, because the ME is not well balanced yet. I mean, somebody earlier said his CCC conversion rate was, what like 7%?, and mine is above 70%!!! That should not happen. Svenc documented this well enough already (how some CCC's are not really CCC's and all that), so I am not going to go into that discussion again here, but certainly the big issues in the current ME are the cause of your experience and mine being drastically different. Having said that, I find the current ME enjoyable still, but if I could, I would combine the FM 17 ME with everything else in FM 20

 

I've only started one save. I had my fair share of 1v1, zombie defender, long ball, poor defensive header in the first season but those have gradually diminished. Is something established at the generation of a save that could lead to such differing experiences between players?

I'm looking forward to the patch but not looking forward to having to tweak everything again.... 

Edited January 8, 2020 by janrzm

[Tiger666]

1 minute ago, bleventozturk said:

This may be a good pkm for SI to look at and see what is going on.

Sigh.. I guess. tbh I'm getting rather fed up with it all. I seem to be spending more time creating bug reports and uploading PKMs than playing the game.