Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[BigV]

42 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

I do wonder if people who complain constantly about the ME simply, pick any random tactic, any random players and expect to win constantly. Unless you are man city, Liverpool or Barca then that simply ain’t gonna work.

I’ve played around at a lot of different teams and divisions. I mean the furthest I’ve got in any save since the first beta came out is about a year and a half in. 

It’s taken a lot of learning and developing to get to a point where I’m seeing my team work well together. It’s satisfying now to see my striker scoring all types of goals consistently, and my team controlling matches. I’m Ac Milan, and at the start the team cohesion is so bad for them, it was bad watching them play and I saw a lot of misses, they couldn’t see a cross to save their lives.But now after time and work on it, they are cohesive, i see a huge difference, they are finding each other on the pitch more often. My striker is where he needs to be most of the time now. I really don’t think it’s all just down to the ME. 

You could be right but people have blamed the ME for so many reasons for so many bugs to ruin the fun in some capacity. People have different experiences but it seems to be the majority finding balls over the top, shooting from wide angles and defensive errors all be it promised that the defenders are smarter now. Not to mention the 1v1's. I can't speak much as im on the demo but the gauge of this forum is pretty easy to read and is bent to one side rather than the middle ground or positive side. For me my striker did what I wanted, hold up and get forward but a large amount saw them as static and at times i've seen that with my 2d mode, same with the CAM position and central game, wide play is heavily relied unless you force it with no wingers and play narrow. 

There are alot more factors of course from the human input as you've stated formation and tactic wise but surely if you have the players and have the formation and still doesn't work to a useful extent then something is wrong. People have looked at the likes of the AI teams where likes of  messi n ronaldo are hitting 20 a season, that's waaayyyy to low for their standard but seems okay for the AI. They want realism and I frankly think too much of it hinders or holds back top end players. 

[roykela]

5 hours ago, Bry said:

Yep, although probably worth acknowledging that bringing on 11 fresh players at half time is going to give your team a fitness advantage over the AI who doesn’t make such drastic changes.

I agree with you though. To assume that just plugging a tactic in will give certain results ignores so many other contributory factors.

Oh, absolutely. It certainly can help bringing on 11 fresh players.
In the end; when it comes to friendlies i'm mainly focusing on the players' fitness. Although i do keep an eye on them tactically as well.

I agree. Plugging in a tactic ignores quite a bit, unless the majority of the players somewhat know that tactic already.

[Mikke]

32 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Where do these overhead kicks come from anyway? They been in the games for years now but they always show up. I'm sure they're just volleys or something 

On some earlier FM release some of the headed goals were counted as overhead kicks, but I haven't checked if it's still the same. And if I remember correctly it was fixed when it originally appeared...

Edited November 28, 2019 by Mikke

[Tiger666]

I'm seeing a lot of generated staff with ridiculous attributes. They need toning down.

[Novem9]

when your player got drunk

[robinthebest]

2 hours ago, Jebedaias said:

Just wanted to say that as long as everyone keeps buying it, then who cares about all these things ? Think I remember Miles said FM 19 broke the sales records, so there you have it.

i pre ordered every single one since FM 15, and i will not be pre ordering anymore, i dont mind the ME isnt good enough, but the problem that i dont understand is, some of the current issues are already there in the beta, why are they still there on the public release?

 

i refuse to believe the SI team dont see shooting from wide angels, wingbacks/wingers dribbles are too strong  in their game, yet they release their game and refuse to communicate with us

[robinthebest]

1 hour ago, Harrymcintyre said:

I do wonder if people who complain constantly about the ME simply, pick any random tactic, any random players and expect to win constantly. Unless you are man city, Liverpool or Barca then that simply ain’t gonna work.

I’ve played around at a lot of different teams and divisions. I mean the furthest I’ve got in any save since the first beta came out is about a year and a half in. 

It’s taken a lot of learning and developing to get to a point where I’m seeing my team work well together. It’s satisfying now to see my striker scoring all types of goals consistently, and my team controlling matches. I’m Ac Milan, and at the start the team cohesion is so bad for them, it was bad watching them play and I saw a lot of misses, they couldn’t see a cross to save their lives.But now after time and work on it, they are cohesive, i see a huge difference, they are finding each other on the pitch more often. My striker is where he needs to be most of the time now. I really don’t think it’s all just down to the ME. 

so do you think team cohesion is related to shoot from the byline, shoots 1v1 towards the corner flag and defenders can make 10-15 tackles per game whole season, while in real life they averaged at most 6 per game?

[roykela]

37 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Are you seriously telling me you're getting 18 overhead kicks? :P The numbers aren't matching up with what is shown on the match engine IMO, but also, the analyst categories don't seem to be correct at the moment.

 Ah, the overhead kicks. I wish i did.
Haven't seen one overhead kick. That bug persists from FM19.

In general it matches perfectly with what i see. Will there be discrepancies from match to numbers? Of course.
In your opinion, that means in your game, right? Because what i see and read in my game matches. Obviously apart from the overhead kicks

Having said that. I only whipped out those numbers for this. I hardly ever check those numbers, and i hardly ever use the analytics.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, robinthebest said:

i refuse to believe the SI team dont see shooting from wide angels, wingbacks/wingers dribbles are too strong  in their game, yet they release their game and refuse to communicate with us

Both shooting into side netting and 1 v 1s HAVE been acknowledged. They ARE under review.

[robinthebest]

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Both shooting into side netting and 1 v 1s HAVE been acknowledged. They ARE under review.

i understand you guys have acknowledged the issue, but whats the plan on the tuning, when is it likely to be released, these are the point customers wanted to know

 

and tbf these issues are so obvious that the game shouldn't be released at this state

Edited November 28, 2019 by robinthebest

[srvngrc]

1 dakika önce, HUNT3R said:

Both shooting into side netting and 1 v 1s HAVE been acknowledged. They ARE under review.

Are these issues already known before release? Because they’re so obvious. There is no chance SI test team didn’t recognize this issues i think. 

[Novem9]

So strange to listen negative reviews about ME in moment where are I create the best interpretation of Jose Mourinho's Inter 2010   I could never achieve such a reproduction before. The most funny thing that this my tactic has the same issues which this had IRL.

And I dont want to blame people without evidence but I sure that part of them at least using exploit tactics from FM19 or poor tactics which need a lot of changes and blame ME in own troubles.

Separately funny to listen blames about 1 vs 1 because looks like a finishing of 1 vs 1 in my save more 50%  at least I have a lot of successfull finishing there are

Edited November 28, 2019 by Novem9

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, robinthebest said:

i understand you guys have acknowledged the issue, but whats the plan on the tuning, when is it likely to be released, these are the point customers wanted to know

 

and tbf these issues are so obvious that the game shouldn't be released at this state

When there is news, it will be shared. SI don't usually announce updates beforehand, but it's up to them.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, srvngrc said:

 Because they’re so obvious. There is no chance SI test team didn’t recognize this issues i think. 

Spotting something obvious is easier and a different process compared to fixing it and testing it.

[rdbayly]

1 hour ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Are you seriously telling me you're getting 18 overhead kicks? :P The numbers aren't matching up with what is shown on the match engine IMO, but also, the analyst categories don't seem to be correct at the moment.

I've had this conversation before that those goal and assist analyst screens are a work of complete fiction:

• A whole manner of passes are being classed as 'through balls' - (including diagonal passes to feet and balls over the top) 
• Volleys and half volleys are often being classes as 'overhead kicks (!)
• Penalties totals are incorrectly counted
• I think that anything which occurs in injury time after 90 minutes isn't being recorded in the analyst tools full stop - Are others seeing this? (the same issue was present in FM19 IIRC?)

All you need to do to recognise the discrepancies, is to keep a note of your assist and goal types based on what you see, then check these screens after each match to see what has been added to your totals.

Edited November 28, 2019 by rdbayly

[roykela]

4 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I've had this conversation before that those goal and assist analyst screens are a work of complete fiction:

• A whole manner of passes are being classed as 'through balls' - (including diagonal passes to feet and balls over the top) 
• Volleys and half volleys are often being classes as 'overhead kicks (!)
• Penalties totals are incorrectly counted
• I think that anything which occurs in jury time after 90 minutes isn't being recorded in the analyst tools full stop - Are others seeing this? (the same issue was present in FM19 IIRC?)

All you need to do to recognise the discrepancies, is to keep a note of your assist and goal types based on what you see, then check these screens after each match to see what has been added to your totals.

I tend to agree with this. That's also why i don't check those numbers myself in my own game. I don't trust them.
Although in FM20 my goal locations and assist locations are mostly correct with my observations of my matches.
It's consistent with what i see in general.
There absolutely are discrepancies. Not arguing that.

[TheInvisibleMan]

The lack of involvement and lack of goals for strikers is my biggest gripe with this match engine. While the lack of central play (probably linked!) and shots from crazy wide angles are frustrating, I'd probably be more willing to deal with it if my strikers were doing more in games and getting more goals.

Maybe tactics play a part but I've tried so many combinations of roles, instructions and formations to try and get them scoring. 

This to me is the biggest problem.

[Robioto]

It happened! Asensio just scored from the byline much like Roberto Carlos did from near the corner flag. My first one that hasn't gone into the side netting in 200 games.

[rdbayly]

1 minute ago, Robioto said:

It happened! Asensio just scored from the byline much like Roberto Carlos did from near the corner flag. My first one that hasn't gone into the side netting in 200 games.

I've loaned him this season. He's scored a couple of bangers, but my word that boy loves a good side netting blast from the byline.

[CaptainPlanet]

Bought Assensio for Liverpool because I couldn’t get Mane to do anything remotely productive from wide, and he’s now my top scorer. 

[thecrackfoxx]

 

I do not understand how people are either having success with one on ones or blindly defending them as this is not an isolated incident for me. Taiwo Awonyi missed 4 one on ones in one game in the Bundesliga playoff for me at the end of the season, went into Nations league with Germany and Werner matched him. Sane's 2  are from wide angles and one of Werners was a penalty, which is fair enough, but all 8 of them were blasted straight at the keeper. 12 CCC's missed in 2 games pretty much sums up my last 2 seasons with Kaiserslautern. 

I am getting involvement from my strikers often which I have read people are struggling with, the issue is you get no reward from being able to get them chances due to the abysmal finishing. 

This coupled with the shots from wide angles and cb's watching long balls go over their heads are killing what is a really good game. It feels there is too much left to chance/pot luck

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by thecrackfoxx

[jc1]

On 26/11/2019 at 14:18, MBarbaric said:

roam from position is another moot instruction that makes you feel you did something clever, but what does it actually mean? In which phase of the game does it kick in, on what part of the pitch and above all, why, what do you want it to achieve? The sam goes with "moves into channels", "drops deep"...

In the game, they are given in isolation to a certain player. It does happen in real as well, but good teams/managers know what they want to achieve with it and in what conditions. When you tick it on in the FM, what do you know about it? A more "railroaded" approach advocated by Svenc might curtail illogical instructions possibly resulting with better ME but less (redundand/ilogical/contradictory) tactic options. Not to mention it would probably be a nightmare/impossible to code. So, until it sells, I don't see that happening. The defensive overhaul last year already goes that way to an extent. so, there is hope.

you can find high quality in depth knowledge about tactics at spielverlagerung.com. the diagrams are a part of River opposition report ahead of their Copa Libertadores final. 

 

Why then have roam or move into channels if it's really just a waste of time. If the instructions for certain positions are already hard coded with these, why have them as an options.

I generally add nothing to the players instructions and just allow them to play as the game allows, I change things by either team shape or team instructions .

[RocheBag]

10 hours ago, RocheBag said:

Does anyone know if the issue with wingbacks in a back 3 not closing down is fixed?

Anyone?

[eye-switcher]

Some of the stuff mentolens are so blatently obvious that it should have been picked up by SI staff feedback thread or no feedback thread. They are very fast to hail the ME as the second coming and dont notice these stuff that are obvious to an outsider 2 games in. Makes you wonder how much they actually play the game as the player is and how much of tunnel vision that is compronising Their view of the ME. Maybe next year they could chill with the ME boasting a bit.

[TheVerySpecialOne]

As someone said, I don´t even get excited over 1 on 1s anymore :D. I am really surprised if a player manages to score it, I am mostly just wishing for a corner  . But I am winning, mostly, sitting at the first place in League One with Portsmouth. And I gotta agree, everything except ME is phenomenal, really enjoying the game. But ME could be improved, I know it´s not easy, but hope I believe it´ll get better.

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, eye-switcher said:

Some of the stuff mentolens are so blatently obvious that it should have been picked up by SI staff feedback thread or no feedback thread. They are very fast to hail the ME as the second coming and dont notice these stuff that are obvious to an outsider 2 games in. Makes you wonder how much they actually play the game as the player is and how much of tunnel vision that is compronising Their view of the ME. Maybe next year they could chill with the ME boasting a bit.

Who ever said they don't notice it?  You say it's obvious, yet there are people in this thread (and other threads) saying the opposite.  This is one of the reasons why opening bug reports and submitting match pkms is important - that way the developers can look under the hood at what the actual causes are and assess fixes.  Each match is unique in it's own way and could have different reasons why the same outcome happens.  Then possible fixes need testing to ensure they don't have a knock on effect to anything else.

Nobody's denying there are issues, but issues existing is not a result of tunnel visioning a compromised view of the ME.

[fidelitywars]

Early impression is that whilst there's far more individual skill/flair on show from forward players than there was in FM19, resulting in some lovely goals, creative passing and overall involvement of forwards remains poor. Deeper playmakers seem to produce a decent amount of key passes/create chances but more advanced creative players simply do not; teams that set-up to defend deep seem to have a lot of joy in grinding games out as yet again, the engine seems to lack the passing tools to break them down.

Step in the right direction but remains frustrating, for me.

[RBKalle]

1 ora fa, Novem9 ha scritto:

And I dont want to blame people without evidence but I sure that part of them at least using exploit tactics from FM19 or poor tactics which need a lot of changes and blame ME in own troubles.

Except most of the complaints aren't about people having "troubles" in terms of results...

The key is the astonishing difference between input, expected output and actual ME display.

The likes of CR7 or Messi missing 30% of their penalties (and it's a conservative figure, as other people's screenshots report stuff like 4 missed pens in a SINGLE MATCH) has nothing to do with exploit tactics or poor choices on the user's part.
Ditto for wingers and wingbacks shooting from absurd angles instead of passing to a better-placed striker inside the 6-yards box. Or for top-class strikers missing 1-on-1s as if they were amateurs

I can accept that SOME of the discrepancies and the "why is the team playing like that?" problem may be down to tactical mistakes (and even then, there's a big case to be made about the convoluted and confusing tactical I/O situation). But as a whole, matches in FM20, post-beta, feels like a crapshoot where the user's input is severely hampered by an unprecedented array of "quirks".

P.S. I'm saying that while on a 58 matches undefeated streak with Juventus. Although I do wonder how the same team struggle to overcome Perugia on Sunday and then procedes to obliterate Atletico 4-0 away on Wednesday.
So no "I can't win wahhhh" rant here. Just a FM'er who feels he's been watching the game play itself instead of actually playing it, as far as matchdays are concerned.

[herne79]

2 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

The likes of CR7 or Messi missing 30% of their penalties (and it's a conservative figure, as other people's screenshots report stuff like 4 missed pens in a SINGLE MATCH) has nothing to do with exploit tactics or poor choices on the user's part.
Ditto for wingers and wingbacks shooting from absurd angles instead of passing to a better-placed striker inside the 6-yards box. Or for top-class strikers missing 1-on-1s as if they were amateurs

Re. the bolded part, that's not entirely true.  Yes people do report seeing this issue and the choices these players make when in that position can be pretty questionable (which is potentially ME related), but tactical choices can influence players getting into those positions in the first place.  Tactical choices can also influence player decision making.

I'm not saying poor choices on the user's part (as you put it) are the root cause of both issues as I have no idea how other people are setting up, it's just a bit of a sweeping statement to say it has nothing to do with us and our choices.

[MBarbaric]

1 ora fa, jc1 ha scritto:

Why then have roam or move into channels if it's really just a waste of time. If the instructions for certain positions are already hard coded with these, why have them as an options.

 

i have no clue, that is a question for SI. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

21 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

But as a whole, matches in FM20, post-beta, feels like a crapshoot where the user's input is severely hampered by an unprecedented array of "quirks".

 

I couldn't disagree more. See my last post on the other thread about 'post your tactics' for my own experience with this. 

22 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

Although I do wonder how the same team struggle to overcome Perugia on Sunday and then procedes to obliterate Atletico 4-0 away on Wednesday.

Without knowing any more than what you've posted, it's very likely that Perugia will have set up much more defensively against you than Atletico would. Did you use the exact same tactic in both matches without changing anything? You really do have to adapt this year. 

[noikeee]

12 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Re. the bolded part, that's not entirely true.  Yes people do report seeing this issue and the choices these players make when in that position can be pretty questionable (which is potentially ME related), but tactical choices can influence players getting into those positions in the first place.  Tactical choices can also influence player decision making.

I'm not saying poor choices on the user's part (as you put it) are the root cause of both issues as I have no idea how other people are setting up, it's just a bit of a sweeping statement to say it has nothing to do with us and our choices.

Erm, there's very legitimate tactical strategies that rely on getting players to those positions and expecting them to do other things. Blaming people for attempting to do that as if that's a bad tactical choice is disingenuous. 

Try to create a tactic that relies on a false nine or any kind of AMC feeding balls into inside forwards running into the channels. These IFs then are either goalscorers themselves or provide cutbacks. Real life example: Messi-Villa-Pedro, 2011 Barcelona. I'm gonna be here all week waiting for someone to replicate that on FM20, because I believe in the current state of the game it's impossible to even barely resemble that tactical plan at all. Because a) nobody passes the ball to the F9/AMC, it's invariably played out wide instead; b) if the ball does get to him, he doesn't play through balls, barely even faces play at all (this type of player seems to play with his back to goal 80% of the time);  and c) if your IF breaks free in a narrow position (which you'd want for this plan) he'll almost always shoot into the sidenet. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by noikeee

[Mitja]

20 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

P.S. I'm saying that while on a 58 matches undefeated streak with Juventus. Although I do wonder how the same team struggle to overcome Perugia on Sunday and then procedes to obliterate Atletico 4-0 away on Wednesday.

So no "I can't win wahhhh" rant here. Just a FM'er who feels he's been watching the game play itself instead of actually playing it, as far as matchdays are concerned.

Yes it looks like AI struggles when you use "wrong" tactics - mentality ledder. Worst thing for AI is to use more sggressive tactics than what they expect. Seems much easier to play against bigger teams unfortunatly.

[BigV]

Out of curiosity how many people are seeing cut backs from those that use low crosses? rather than the latter of taking it wide and shooting. Also how much of an effect does it have using the PI for crosses? as visually the target man is in the box behind the central/wide areas but realsitically by name it would be the decision of the player... 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, BigV said:

Out of curiosity how many people are seeing cut backs from those that use low crosses? rather than the latter of taking it wide and shooting.

My wide players do cutbacks regularly. I had one game where I saw my right IF shoot into the side netting twice, but this was late on where I was throwing the kitchen sink at the opposition, so while frustrating, was kinda a by-product of this. Overall, I'm happy with the way the wide players operate in my side. Do they always make the right choices? Of course not, I would hate the game if that was a thing. 

[SebastianRO]

3 hours ago, Harrymcintyre said:

I do wonder if people who complain constantly about the ME simply, pick any random tactic, any random players and expect to win constantly. Unless you are man city, Liverpool or Barca then that simply ain’t gonna work.

I’ve played around at a lot of different teams and divisions. I mean the furthest I’ve got in any save since the first beta came out is about a year and a half in. 

It’s taken a lot of learning and developing to get to a point where I’m seeing my team work well together. It’s satisfying now to see my striker scoring all types of goals consistently, and my team controlling matches. I’m Ac Milan, and at the start the team cohesion is so bad for them, it was bad watching them play and I saw a lot of misses, they couldn’t see a cross to save their lives.But now after time and work on it, they are cohesive, i see a huge difference, they are finding each other on the pitch more often. My striker is where he needs to be most of the time now. I really don’t think it’s all just down to the ME. 

I do appreciate your point and you have a valid one. However, do not think for a second that I or many others haven't done what you just done. I have given my teams all the time they needed to get the partnerships, etc. Also, bear in mind that I don't pick "any random tactics", as I develop my own tactical frameworks since FM07 ...  Don't assume we are some newbies that don't get the basics of the game. I have played so many editions of FM, so my comparison pool is so very high ... and this is why I am stating the fact that for me, this ME is terrible. For a person who has only played 1 or 2 other editions, this ME wouldn't even feel that bad because one wouldn't have a lot of comparison tools. It's mostly the "veterans" that complained about FM19 and this year's editions. Anyway, I am glad that you enjoy the game, I really am and I hope / wish I will enjoy it as well after the next big ME update.

[herne79]

36 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Erm, there's very legitimate tactical strategies that rely on getting players to those positions and expecting them to do other things. Blaming people for attempting to do that as if that's a bad tactical choice is disingenuous. 

And if I'd actually said that you might have a point .

[pats]

To those who think their "tactics don't make any difference", "ME is broken", "too many long shots" etc.. etc.. I just played an Italian series A match in my first season (so no transfers) as Sampdoria (11th) vs Conte's Inter (5th). I won the match 1-0 with 'Balanced' mentality, 'no counter pressing', 'no counter', with 2 mezzalas, 2 forwards and a Trequartista at AMC position. I wasn't sitting back or wasn't over-committing.  I restricted Inter to ZERO long shots and just a single half chance. Their 8 shots were just hopeful header and shots under pressure. Sure I didn't create much either but I was the underdog and had already lost to Juventus, Lazio, Milan, Fiorentina trying to play ambitious football. My tactics did EXACTLY what I wanted in this match even though there are no partnership links between my players and the cohesion is just about average. Loving this year's version.

Here are some screenshots of the match:

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by pats

[noikeee]

6 minutes ago, herne79 said:

And if I'd actually said that you might have a point .

It was subtly implied.

[afailed10]

14 minutes ago, pats said:

To those who think their "tactics don't make any difference", "ME is broken", "too many long shots" etc.. etc.. I just played an Italian series A match in my first season (so no transfers) as Sampdoria (11th) vs Conte's Inter (5th). I won the match 1-0 with 'Balanced' mentality, 'no counter pressing', 'no counter', with 2 mezzalas, 2 forwards and a Trequartista at AMC position. I wasn't sitting back or wasn't over-committing.  I restricted Inter to ZERO long shots and just a single half chance. Their 8 shots were just hopeful header and shots under pressure. Sure I didn't create much either but I was the underdog and had already lost to Juventus, Lazio, Milan, Fiorentina trying to play ambitious football. My tactics did EXACTLY what I wanted in this match even though there are no partnership links between my players and the cohesion is just about average. Loving this year's version.

Here are some screenshots of the match:

 

What's that supposed to prove? It's not like you are a massive underdog. 

I've been using a 4312 exclusively as well and i have yet to lose a game (i'm managing a bigger team).

After a few more games i stand by my earlier opinion that there are way too many pens and they are mostly in my favor and created by fullbacks dribbling. 

I believe the main issue making strikers and central play almost non existent and giving too much space to wingers and especially wingbacks, is related to an overly narrow defensive positioning but im sure there's more to it. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by afailed10

[isignedupfornorealreason]

3 hours ago, roykela said:

In your opinion, that means in your game, right? Because what i see and read in my game matches. Obviously apart from the overhead kicks

 

Yeah, I posted a little further back about my stats and how it is recorded on the analysts screen. It is definitely counting crosses as through balls in some cases.

 

To be fair though, this is the first time I've genuinely bothered trying to match them up. Normally I take what people say as gospel "Check your statistics, they show all these lovely assists locations and through balls and whatnot", but looking deeper - it was only six games, there's enough margin of error that I don't think I can trust the statistics anymore. 

 

Didn't know the Ohead kicks was a bug from FM19. If that is the case, it really should have been exterminated with extreme prejudice for this iteration... 

[fidelitywars]

13 minutes ago, pats said:

To those who think their "tactics don't make any difference", "ME is broken", "too many long shots" etc.. etc.. I just played an Italian series A match in my first season (so no transfers) as Sampdoria (11th) vs Conte's Inter (5th). I won the match 1-0 with 'Balanced' mentality, 'no counter pressing', 'no counter', with 2 mezzalas, 2 forwards and a Trequartista at AMC position. I wasn't sitting back or wasn't over-committing.  I restricted Inter to ZERO long shots and just a single half chance. Their 8 shots were just hopeful header and shots under pressure. Sure I didn't create much either but I was the underdog and had already lost to Juventus, Lazio, Milan, Fiorentina trying to play ambitious football. My tactics did EXACTLY what I wanted in this match even though there are no partnership links between my players and the cohesion is just about average. Loving this year's version.

Here are some screenshots of the match:

 

Not sure this proves the point you think it does; indeed, it highlights a serious problem - no clear chances (and only half chance) created by either team! Passing just isn't penetrative enough in this engine.

[herne79]

4 minutes ago, noikeee said:

It was subtly implied.

Nope.  Stop looking for hidden meanings and misrepresenting me please (or "disingenuous" to use your phrase).  Someone made a sweeping statement about fullbacks shooting from tight angles being nothing to do with tactics.  I merely stated that whilst there are ME issues, in some cases tactics may have an influence.

[roykela]

10 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

 

Yeah, I posted a little further back about my stats and how it is recorded on the analysts screen. It is definitely counting crosses as through balls in some cases.

 

To be fair though, this is the first time I've genuinely bothered trying to match them up. Normally I take what people say as gospel "Check your statistics, they show all these lovely assists locations and through balls and whatnot", but looking deeper - it was only six games, there's enough margin of error that I don't think I can trust the statistics anymore. 

 

Didn't know the Ohead kicks was a bug from FM19. If that is the case, it really should have been exterminated with extreme prejudice for this iteration... 

I've lost track of who has posted where etc.

I'm pretty sure i would find discrepancies if i looked more thoroughly and did a proper analysis.
Overall though it seems to fit with what i see in my matches. But i've never bothered with those numbers as i know they're not too reliable. But they can be a good pointer.

Someone mentioned the overhead kicks could stem from an even earlier version but i have no idea about that. I know it was there in FM19.

I really don't envy SI in this situation. You have both ends of an issue where, oddly enough, both sides are right and wrong at the same time. Going to be a tough one to balance for them.
I'm happy i'm just playing the game and not sitting in their chairs

Edited November 28, 2019 by roykela
Apparently i can't write

[isignedupfornorealreason]

2 hours ago, TheInvisibleMan said:

The lack of involvement and lack of goals for strikers is my biggest gripe with this match engine. While the lack of central play (probably linked!) and shots from crazy wide angles are frustrating, I'd probably be more willing to deal with it if my strikers were doing more in games and getting more goals.

Maybe tactics play a part but I've tried so many combinations of roles, instructions and formations to try and get them scoring. 

This to me is the biggest problem.

Looking at the bug forums and some of the threads are a bit bullheaded about this... But, one user suggests that he gets better use of a lone striker if you offset them to the FCL/FCR positions rather than the FC position. You could try that and see if improves things?

[pats]

7 minutes ago, fidelitywars said:

Not sure this proves the point you think it does; indeed, it highlights a serious problem - no clear chances (and only half chance) created by either team! Passing just isn't penetrative enough in this engine.

It proves exactly the point I think I'm trying to make. I wanted to restrict chances against a big team and wasn't bothered about creating chances in this match especially. Try playing as a mid table team against a top 4 team in your first season in one of the big leagues and show me you can create clear cut chances without getting hammered at the other end.

[pats]

13 minutes ago, KyleHyde said:

What's that supposed to prove? It's not like you are a massive underdog. 

I've been using a 4312 exclusively as well and i have yet to lose a game (i'm managing a bigger team).

After a few more games i stand by my earlier opinion that there are way too many pens and they are mostly in my favor and created by fullbacks dribbling. 

I believe the main issue making strikers and central play almost non existent and giving too much space to wingers and especially wingbacks, is related to an overly narrow defensive positioning but im sure there's more to it. 

I'm not arguing about defensive positioning. That is up for debate. But I have only conceded 1 penalty and received 1 penalty in 15 matches so far. 

[TheInvisibleMan]

4 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Looking at the bug forums and some of the threads are a bit bullheaded about this... But, one user suggests that he gets better use of a lone striker if you offset them to the FCL/FCR positions rather than the FC position. You could try that and see if improves things?

That's interesting, will give that a go. Thank you for that.

[luka_zg]

I'll say that Mbappe plays totally ****** for me as a lone striker. Could as well put some random guy and will have the same effect. Put him on the wing though and guy wrecks everyone.

[pizzachips]

the amount of unnecessary side net hitting is infuriating.is this known or genuine is it tactics