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Top goalscorers in FM 20?

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Has anyone finished a full season yet? I was wondering what amount of goals the top goalscorers finish with in the new version. One thing that annoys me in FM 19 is that usually the top scorers seem to finish with only ~18-22 league goals.

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I've done 2 seasons so far on my save and in a couple of the big league's the top scorer has been:

Prem- 19/20 Kane 27 goals, 20/21 Lacazette 21 goals

Serie A 19/20 Ronaldo 24 goals, 20/21 Zapata 22 goals

La liga 19/20 Felix 22 goals, 20/21 Morata 17 goals

Bundesliga 19/20 Volland 18 goals, 20/21 Lewandowski 24 goals

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I'm playing in the lower leagues, so this is not influenced by me. This is for the Premier League:

hDNqqWq.png

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Seems like the same problem from fm19 then. 

Its overall problem with the ME, that strikers score so little goals. 

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I simulated first season then took over man utd. 
 

19/20: Kane 21 (spurs)

20/21: Haaland 34 (man utd)

21/22: Haaland 28 (man utd)

I haven’t had any problems getting my strikers to score. 

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Don't look at the Goals. Look at their attempts. Competitions set to full Detail. Here's why.

 

As the number of Goals is/may be more dependent on randomness (the difference between a Goal and None can be the keeper reaching the ball.... just, plus woodwork, plus freak matches where every other roll of the dice, er shot, is a goal, or the side was getting awarded 6 penalties :D ): It arguably were more interesting to look at the (average) amount of shots the top Forwards get. This can be taken from the forward's profile under his stats. Alternativelly, there is a column "attempts p / 90" to be manually entered into a squad's screen.

Then compare that to the human managed ones (who don't have a Problem getting their strikers to score). 

For the top Scorers in actual Football, this goes as follows:

La Liga: Messi, 36 goals. 5 shots per game
EPL: Salah, 22 Goals, 3.6 shots per game
Bundesliga: Lewandowski , 22 Goals, 4.4 shots per game
Serie A: Quagliarella, 26 Goals, 3.8 shots per game
Ligue 1: Mbappe, 33 goals, 4.3 shots per game


Another reason for looking at such is gauging whether and how the AI utilizes the players at all. But also how they go about things tactically in general. A version, two back it was apparent even at the in-game shot on target tables that they were not nearly as dominated by the top teams in particular as their real world counterpart. It would have been a miracle if they would have scored as many goals as they do in football, or close, consistently. Additionally, looking into his profile, CR7 oft wasn't proper utlized by the AI either, as he sometimes had  3 shots per match average (IRL 6-7). Either this was because the AI didn't play attacking enough all the matches through. It could have been their **** tactics. It could have been naturally also the ME.  

 

 

 

Edited by Svenc

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Seen Chris Wood score 21 in the prem first year, get relegated then get 28 in the championship the next year? Target Men best for FM20? 😂

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On 18/11/2019 at 06:50, Pattric_b said:

I simulated first season then took over man utd. 
 

19/20: Kane 21 (spurs)

20/21: Haaland 34 (man utd)

21/22: Haaland 28 (man utd)

I haven’t had any problems getting my strikers to score. 

And how have you set up your team tactics to get your striker scoring? 

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1 hour ago, BadAss88 said:

And how have you set up your team tactics to get your striker scoring? 

I use a positive gegenpress (Sometimes balanced, sometimes attacking) 4-2-4. I took off a few ti’s like attack narrow. When I get home I can post a screenshot but it basically looks like this

sk (a)

fb (a) - bpd (d) - bpd (d) - wb (s)

dlp (d) - cm (s)

w (s) - dlf (a) - af (a) - if (a)

Haaland is my advanced forward and greenwood is my dlf who also gets around 15-20 goals in the league. 

Also depending on the game and which players I’m using, I change some roles around like swap the fullback roles and the wingers roles. 

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Peter Clement (Dalum - Danish 2nd div) with 27 goals in the original beta - many of which were 1 on 1's - had 8 at the winter break, then went into another gear!

I was playing a 4-1-3-2 - nothing special - IW(s)/FB(a) on one side, had my CM on attack, right winger on support - DLF(su) AF up top.  Standard defensive line, lower line of engagement with counter turned on.  Counter press on against the worst teams in the div and nudged the defensive line/loe up one.  Was going OK in the first div after promotion - but struggled when the ME changed - started a new save to further test the then beta ME.  Might go back to it tonight as the determination issue won't be there...

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As argued: An interesting Question may be how many Goal attempts Haaland has here per match average.

and how many Kane had for the AI before. 

I'm just on my first Simulation on the Bundesliga, and it's clear that not even Bayern's Lewandowski at 3.5 /1.6 on target gets to the top drawers here (still 7 Goals from 10 Matches so far). There's barely, if any single AI regular Player who has 4+ shots per match or more, in particular not a Forward who's typically in the better Position to score (very centrally inside the box).  Even glancing at such basic data, the AI has been incapable of making a Forward the Focal Point of Play, the way Kane oft would be in real Football for Tottenham, or Messi at Barca (5 shots), or CR7 just About everywhere he Plays (historical 6-7 shots average). It would be also a complete Fantasy if it thus were able to produce Forwards who consistently average a Goal per match, as a) in the vast majority of situations outside of tap-ins and the like the Forward in-game likewise should not expected to score and b) thus a Goal in every 5-6 attempts Long-term is top drawer stuff.

 

I think I'm going to start all over again in La Liga, as that for some seems to main culprit (Messi doesn't score 30+ Goals per season...….)



 

Edited by Svenc

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1 hour ago, Pattric_b said:

I use a positive gegenpress (Sometimes balanced, sometimes attacking) 4-2-4. I took off a few ti’s like attack narrow. When I get home I can post a screenshot but it basically looks like this

sk (a)

fb (a) - bpd (d) - bpd (d) - wb (s)

dlp (d) - cm (s)

w (s) - dlf (a) - af (a) - if (a)

Haaland is my advanced forward and greenwood is my dlf who also gets around 15-20 goals in the league. 

Also depending on the game and which players I’m using, I change some roles around like swap the fullback roles and the wingers roles. 

Would love a screenshot of tactics!

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1 hour ago, Svenc said:

As argued: An interesting Question may be how many Goal attempts Haaland has here per match average.

and how many Kane had for the AI before. 

I'm just on my first Simulation on the Bundesliga, and it's clear that not even Bayern's Lewandowski at 3.5 /1.6 on target gets to the top drawers here (still 7 Goals from 10 Matches so far). There's barely, if any single AI regular Player who has 4+ shots per match or more, in particular not a Forward who's typically in the better Position to score (very centrally inside the box).  

 

 

Same in the EPL. Aguero is the top scorer with 13/13, but just 3.4 shots per match. It's highly unlikely that he will Keep scoring with that this consistently. Harry Kane meanwhile has but 2.5 shots per match (at his best at Spurs it was 5). Only Aubameyang has a respectable 4.8 shots per match so far, but he seems sometimes played out wide left at AML by the AI. Actually, Players out wide oft seem to have the most shots in General, as Pool's Mane at AMR averages 4.7 likewise. However, their finishes mostly likely won't be in the most central positions, thus, and with it their opportunity to become more consistent Scorers.

I think I'm going to predict this early into my Research that the AI is not going to produce Messi like Consistency of scoring on FM20 likewise unless it gets a tactical overhaul. I've made the same observations on Prior Releases already.

Edited by Svenc

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This is what I've been on about for the past year, play in the ME is more focused than it should be, on wide play. Most of the time, rather than the team moving the ball forward & centrally, the play will go forward & wide. It's just how it is, the AI packs the centre so wide players are free & favoured & the striker mainly lives off of scraps & crosses 

Just playing a game now, against the U-19's, we're 5 nil up, the striker's had one shot & scored one , the centre backs have had more shots than he has  

Unless you're pasting someone with 30-40 shots or have your striker on direct free kicks, I can't see strikers getting the amounts of shots at goal @Svenc's posted up 

Edited by Johnny Ace

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17 minutes ago, WilsonJuve said:

Seen this on reddit AI managed to score 40+ goals with cristiano ronaldo in his save


That's far more than simply impressive. The Question is whether the AI can make him scoring consistently, as scoring ratios are going to fluctuate from one Season to the next (even though in Terms of Performance, not overly much may have changed). The AI typically doesn't and can't make CR7 the focal Point of all attacks he typically is in real Football. At Madrid, entire strike partnerships (Benzema dropping off...) were geared towards making the space for his, so that he could score his Goals. And this regardless of any ME "issue". As a consequence, finishes are typically somewhat spread out accross the Frontline for any AI managed side. You can check this by entering the "shots per 90 minutes" column into AI Squad screens. At Madrid, Ronaldo had like 30% of the shots of his Teams total, for an average of 6-7 shots per match.

That's why this board had various "How to make Messi Messish" threads in the past already. Maybe SI have finally implemented a "make striker x the focal Point of Play" tactical PPM for AI Managers though, and the Research implemented it into the Juve Management accordingly. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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Suspect you are referring to top leagues but anyways I have one complete season:

National League South - Liam Nash (Hemel Hempstead Town) - 38 goals :D

 

Premier League top scorer was Harry Kane 25

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5 hours ago, chad2192 said:

Would love a screenshot of tactics!

310693483_ScreenShot2019-11-14at8_42_16PM.thumb.png.ddf2043dad8f638f6c5bd7b7c772dac9.png

There you go. We won everything my second year in charge with this exact tactic. 

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On 18/11/2019 at 05:50, Pattric_b said:

I simulated first season then took over man utd. 
 

19/20: Kane 21 (spurs)

20/21: Haaland 34 (man utd)

21/22: Haaland 28 (man utd)

I haven’t had any problems getting my strikers to score. 

Haaland is an over-powered, under-priced monster in this year's release. Basing your view on his performance in a hyper-attacking, aggressive user's system is not representative of what is actually going on in the football world this game is simulating.

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After 19 games in my Fiorentina save Kessie is top scorer with 16 goals (playing MC at Milan in a 41221; has 'shot from distance' trait); strikers are hopeless except for Ronaldo (15, though relying on 6 penalties) and my own striker Pedro (9 goals, also with 5 penalties). Lukaku has 2 goals, Belotti has 5 and Immobile 7 again thanks to penalties, which are apparently being awarded at above average rate. Seems to me that Match Engine hates strikers more than ever this year.

@Svenc I think AI Ronaldo is generally 'helped' by his 'shoots from distance' trait and the above average number of penalties awarded on current ME (and of course by his world class attributes, and possibly Juventus current tactic/playing style).

Edited by kandersson

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2 hours ago, rdbayly said:

Haaland is an over-powered, under-priced monster in this year's release. Basing your view on his performance in a hyper-attacking, aggressive user's system is not representative of what is actually going on in the football world this game is simulating.

How is it not? If I can create a system like this then so can the AI. 
Dybala has scored 25+ in both seasons and Aubameyang has 20+

Edited by Pattric_b

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3 hours ago, kandersson said:

After 19 games in my Fiorentina save Kessie is top scorer with 16 goals (playing MC at Milan in a 41221; has 'shot from distance' trait); strikers are hopeless except for Ronaldo (15, though relying on 6 penalties) and my own striker Pedro (9 goals, also with 5 penalties). Lukaku has 2 goals, Belotti has 5 and Immobile 7 again thanks to penalties, which are apparently being awarded at above average rate. Seems to me that Match Engine hates strikers more than ever this year.

@Svenc I think AI Ronaldo is generally 'helped' by his 'shoots from distance' trait and the above average number of penalties awarded on current ME (and of course by his world class attributes, and possibly Juventus current tactic/playing style).

Meanwhile, this amount of penalties seems to fluctuate quite a bit depending on the league/Country -- and the respective refs. Still suspecting ref Attributes to be the cause of this (same as until just a couple Releases ago they would either average 6-7 bookings p. match or barely 1, all depending on their "discipline"). 

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7 hours ago, kandersson said:

After 19 games in my Fiorentina save Kessie is top scorer with 16 goals (playing MC at Milan in a 41221; has 'shot from distance' trait);

Well there you go, combine long shots issue with the fact that Kessie has been an absolute beast for a couple of years now. One of the many overrated players in an average AC Milan squad.

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On 20/11/2019 at 02:32, kandersson said:

After 19 games in my Fiorentina save Kessie is top scorer with 16 goals (playing MC at Milan in a 41221; has 'shot from distance' trait); strikers are hopeless except for Ronaldo (15, though relying on 6 penalties) and my own striker Pedro (9 goals, also with 5 penalties). Lukaku has 2 goals, Belotti has 5 and Immobile 7 again thanks to penalties, which are apparently being awarded at above average rate. Seems to me that Match Engine hates strikers more than ever this year.

@Svenc I think AI Ronaldo is generally 'helped' by his 'shoots from distance' trait and the above average number of penalties awarded on current ME (and of course by his world class attributes, and possibly Juventus current tactic/playing style).


By the way, in one of those rare Events gifted by the Football Gods, it seems FM would be scarily accurate, at least when taking the current Serie A so far into account. :D 

Top Goal scorer for realz is Immobile with 14 after 12 matches at 3.3 shots per match. 5 Penalties.
After that it's Lukaku at 9 Goals, 3 penalties. 
And Muriel at 8 Goals, 3 penalties.

Additionally, the Juventus AI (similar to Zidane in first half of 2017) doesn't seem to get Ronaldo scoring for ****. 
10 Matches played for his, ~6 shots per match average, ~60 shots for 5 Goals. As a Forward. 2 of which penalties. Well at least he's still actually firing. :D Unlike in 2017 (100+ shots for 4 Goals, two of which a Penalty xG 15+), his xG is actually that low though… this time. Will be interesting how this is gonna pan out reast of the Season. 

 

Edited by Svenc

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On 20/11/2019 at 07:30, rdbayly said:

Haaland is an over-powered, under-priced monster in this year's release. Basing your view on his performance in a hyper-attacking, aggressive user's system is not representative of what is actually going on in the football world this game is simulating.

Im off to buy Haaland now lol

 

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i've done 6 seasons on my boston save, the prem top scores have had the following:

S1: 22, 21, 20

S2: 19, 18, 16

S3: 18, 18, 16

S4: 17, 17, 17

S5: 16, 15, 15

this all seems really low for the premier league top scorers

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Just now, golo said:

6 seasons

 

5 seasons* im midway through my 6th lmao

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2 hours ago, golo said:

i've done 6 seasons on my boston save, the prem top scores have had the following:

S1: 22, 21, 20

S2: 19, 18, 16

S3: 18, 18, 16

S4: 17, 17, 17

S5: 16, 15, 15

this all seems really low for the premier league top scorers

Are These on full match Detail? 

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15 hours ago, Svenc said:


By the way, in one of those rare Events gifted by the Football Gods, it seems FM would be scarily accurate, at least when taking the current Serie A so far into account. :D 

Top Goal scorer for realz is Immobile with 14 after 12 matches at 3.3 shots per match. 5 Penalties.
After that it's Lukaku at 9 Goals, 3 penalties. 
And Muriel at 8 Goals, 3 penalties.

Additionally, the Juventus AI (similar to Zidane in first half of 2017) doesn't seem to get Ronaldo scoring for ****. 
10 Matches played for his, ~6 shots per match average, ~60 shots for 5 Goals. As a Forward. 2 of which penalties. Well at least he's still actually firing. :D Unlike in 2017 (100+ shots for 4 Goals, two of which a Penalty xG 15+), his xG is actually that low though… this time. Will be interesting how this is gonna pan out reast of the Season. 

 

As an (unlucky) follower of Serie A I would still have something to point out :D

I like Lazio and Immobile because they are a rare example of a team consistently creating the type of chances we all like to see (ONE-ON-ONEZ), and use creative players like Luis Alberto, Correa and Milinkovic-Savic with lots of central play and movement to feed the striker (basically they broke FM). Even without penalties (often won by Immobile himself) he has a very good average of a goal every 104 minutes (67 with penalties).

Muriel has 8 goals in just 5 starts (10 total apps), even without PK's he's at one goal every 99 minutes (62 with penalties). Worth to note that Atalanta first choice striker Duvan Zapata had 6 goals in 7 matches (6 starts) before his injury, good for one goal every 86 minutes (no penalties!). Atalanta is probably the only Serie A team i enjoy watching as a neutral fan...

Lukaku has done pretty well considering his team plays like scheiße :lol:

I see strikers (both mine and AI) struggling a lot in my Serie A save and with penalties being toned down in latest update I could see things getting worse. Another user has posted some pretty shocking numbers from his save in the feedback forum. I miss everything I hated about FM 12.

 

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1 hour ago, kandersson said:

I like Lazio and Immobile because they are a rare example of a team consistently creating the type of chances we all like to see (ONE-ON-ONEZ), 

 

I've Always prefered actually open Goals to on one on ones, which sometimes in-game wouldn't even be picked up as CCCs, such as sequences from the Cutback taking the keeper half out of the Picture in a way a one on one never does, etc. They also tend to be much easier put away, in particular if the Forward is under pressure on that one on one to boot.


But thanks for the insight. :)As a fan of stats I will still be watching with interest what These curious numbers mean in the meantime for CR7. Is he really on the decline this time? At some Point, it may happen. As of Muriel (xG 5.8) of Zapata (xG 3.5), both are outperforming their xG at a rate they didn't in the Prior Seasons, interestingly. They did outperform it by similar numbrs, but at the end of the Seasons. So they either seem to be Pretty efficient with the chances they have so far (and will revert to the mean -- e.g. Dortmund and Alcacer last term... ), or they've improved. Or, naturally, the data is flawed and doesn't pick up on something that simple data don't convey. 

OT: Statsbomb have a few interesting articles on Atalanta if you're interested. Whilst the Focus is on data, they don't Forget tactics as well. To me the ideal Kind of Analysis would Always be a mix of the two. https://statsbomb.com/2019/09/at-last-atalanta-a-perennial-outsider-stormed-up-the-serie-a-table-and-now-looks-to-do-the-same-to-the-champions-league/ Sometimes I wish FM had that Kind of Analysis. But then it would also make the game a lot easier, and kill a few of those entertaining perennial whinges how you couldn't score from 30, whilst the AI on the Occasion may score from 5. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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3 hours ago, Svenc said:

I've Always prefered actually open Goals to on one on ones, which sometimes in-game wouldn't even be picked up as CCCs, such as sequences from the Cutback taking the keeper half out of the Picture in a way a one on one never does, etc. They also tend to be much easier put away, in particular if the Forward is under pressure on that one on one to boot.


But thanks for the insight. :)As a fan of stats I will still be watching with interest what These curious numbers mean in the meantime for CR7. Is he really on the decline this time? At some Point, it may happen. As of Muriel (xG 5.8) of Zapata (xG 3.5), both are outperforming their xG at a rate they didn't in the Prior Seasons, interestingly. They did outperform it by similar numbrs, but at the end of the Seasons. So they either seem to be Pretty efficient with the chances they have so far (and will revert to the mean -- e.g. Dortmund and Alcacer last term... ), or they've improved. Or, naturally, the data is flawed and doesn't pick up on something that simple data don't convey. 

OT: Statsbomb have a few interesting articles on Atalanta if you're interested. Whilst the Focus is on data, they don't Forget tactics as well. To me the ideal Kind of Analysis would Always be a mix of the two. https://statsbomb.com/2019/09/at-last-atalanta-a-perennial-outsider-stormed-up-the-serie-a-table-and-now-looks-to-do-the-same-to-the-champions-league/ Sometimes I wish FM had that Kind of Analysis. But then it would also make the game a lot easier, and kill a few of those entertaining perennial whinges how you couldn't score from 30, whilst the AI on the Occasion may score from 5. :D 

One on ones are not necessarily the easiest chances but they're the most exciting to watch imo. You have speed, dribbling, technique plus an individual duel (striker vs keeper) which is always fun. Of course the beauty of this mostly depends on quality and creativity of the finisher. Going round keeper is in my view the highest form of finishing :). To each his own Ronaldo. I'll take this, with his one-on-ones!

PS Alcacer needs to play more :D

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9 minutes ago, kandersson said:

One on ones are not necessarily the easiest chances but they're the most exciting to watch imo.

Most definitely. Which is why they tend to be a bit "overrated" as to their perceived "easiness" (not that they're bad chances mind) . They're hugely dramatic like not much else in a match (and the commentary on TV usually moderates them accordingly :D ). It's one man against one man, and one of the two will go down, like in a Showdown of a great Spaghetti Western. Thing is, that "other man" is typically also still fully game. :) 

Edited by Svenc

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One on Ones Indeed are hard. 

'cause in normal situations the 'keeper have to look at movement of ball, several players and even his teammates in front of him, while in One to ones he can concentrate on a single player

 

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On 19/11/2019 at 23:30, rdbayly said:

Haaland is an over-powered, under-priced monster in this year's release. Basing your view on his performance in a hyper-attacking, aggressive user's system is not representative of what is actually going on in the football world this game is simulating.

Agreed. It would be good to be able to get decent scoring without using that kind of tactic.

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2 hours ago, kandersson said:

One on ones are not necessarily the easiest chances but they're the most exciting to watch imo. You have speed, dribbling, technique plus an individual duel (striker vs keeper) which is always fun. Of course the beauty of this mostly depends on quality and creativity of the finisher. Going round keeper is in my view the highest form of finishing :). To each his own Ronaldo. I'll take this, with his one-on-ones!

PS Alcacer needs to play more :D

I think without injuries, THAT Ronaldo would’ve been the best ever; his finishing was insane (and that finishing would often include beating two or three defenders and the keeper).

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On 22/11/2019 at 05:13, golo said:

i've done 6 seasons on my boston save, the prem top scores have had the following:

S1: 22, 21, 20

S2: 19, 18, 16

S3: 18, 18, 16

S4: 17, 17, 17

S5: 16, 15, 15

this all seems really low for the premier league top scorers

Now those numbers are just sad. :mad:

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Il 22/11/2019 in 23:15 , dannysheard ha scritto:

I think without injuries, THAT Ronaldo would’ve been the best ever; his finishing was insane (and that finishing would often include beating two or three defenders and the keeper).

Maradona said the same thing (that without injuries Ronaldo would've been better of him and Pelé). 

I am AC Milan supporter, but when he came to (rival) Inter back in 97, i follow more them. He was mesmerizing. 

What that is often forgotten (a part that then defenders were brutal and focused and no childs like in these 10 years) Is that he was (when on shape) a total attacking player with great vision. 

I think that for the little we saw the duo Ronaldo-Romario was amazing to watch 

(Even if Ronaldo-Vieri maybe potentially more effective)

Edited by FlorianAlbert9

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Strikers set on support are scoring frequently for me. Almost a goal a game.  Has anyone else noticed this?
 

In one save I have a target man on support paired with a poacher. The other save has a pressing forward on support playing as the middle striker in a 3 striker formation (the other 2 strikers are a pressing forward on attack and a poacher). 
 

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