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Jimbokav1971

Sudden drop in Youth Recruitment rating.

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Summary. Sudden drop in Youth Recruitment rating. 

Description. When my Youth Intake came through in Sep 2027 I know that my Facilities were as follows. 

I have just checked our facilities again, (now in Jan 2028), and our Youth Recruitment seems to have dropped 4 levels. 

Youth Recruitment seems to have dropped from Exceptional, past Excellent, past Good, past Adequate to Average

June 2027 Facilities

50cb7bf99087cd8aeeff370ad5d214f8.png

November 2027 Facilities.

e61a64f3f85f1078ab3d11a6d9170980.png

December 2027 Facilities

19d9bc9daf584e28553e299c26f058bc.png

January 2029 Facilities.

9198ff5c18f9840f20e81e1ccd8fa333.png

Ok. This is weird. The picture above is showing that Youth Recruitment is back up to Exceptional. :lock:

I have a picture that I posted in my thread in the Career Update Forum and it clearly shows Youth Recruitment at Average. This was on 1st Jan 2029 before I saved. Now when I reload the save it's back to Exceptional. 

bf7e92753cc372400bacd09e3914eb73.png

Steps to reproduce. I'm really not sure. 

Files Uploaded74bb9d0c4e83087753006608f489e498.png

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I had this too then it reverted back. I think the bug is the display and not the actual rating in the background as I still had a quality intake despite only being rated as basic when it should of been exceptional.

Edited by DazRTaylor

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The issue here is with the display and not the actual effect of your facilities - it's proving a difficult one to reproduce internally but thanks for your info and we'll keep looking into it. 

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Hi @Andrew JamesJust had a look at the in game editor to try and work out what the description for the different sub-levels of facility are and I'm afraid this doesn't seem to be limited to my club. 

I'm playing in Sweden so I have just gone down a few divisions to get to clubs with what I hoped would be level 1 Youth Recruitment, (which was the one I was looking at 1st). 

Swedish First Division South. 

Club Grebbestads IF Fairly Basic Youth Recruitment

785ad5c96d439b2ca78ff98d785d93cb.png

So now I use the in game editor to have a look at the club info and it tells me that the Youth recruitment level of this club is 4. So Fairly Basic Youth Recruitment equates to level 4 on the 20 point ladder or whatever you want to call it. 

Now I want to have a look at another club. FC Linköping City Average Youth Recruitment

99deb523e8d4561ca38098364087edd4.png

Now let's see what "Average Youth Recruitment" equates to on the 20 point ladder. That equals 4 as well. 

Hang on a minute. I've got 2 clubs, 1 with Youth Recruitment at Fairly Basic and another with Youth Recruitment at Average, yet both of them have a Youth Recruitment level of 4 out of 20 in game. 

Now I don't really care about these clubs, (well actually I do because I used to manage one of them and maybe this explains a few things), but if what I am reading about these clubs isn't accurate, how do I know what I am seeing about my own club is. (The main reason I chose it was because of the Exceptional Youth Recruitment). How do I actually know what my Youth Recruitment level is, or any other facility for that matter? 

I then go and look at my club Örebro SK and see what it's showing me at the moment. 

2d6c6c3969c6f7c29290aa335e2b39db.png

It's back to showing me Exceptional, (which is great), but let's just see what rating it gives me. 

222a7adc5b5f3d1c53ecd064a7908b94.png

Well 10 doesn't sound very exceptional. I suppose it could be worse though because Average is the other option. 

The problem is that I applied to manage this club because of the facilities and the Youth Intakes have had me wondering what was going on. This perhaps sheds some light on the situation. Level 10 out of 20 levels certainly doesn't seem very "exceptional" to me. So if it's not exceptional then what is it? 

Anyway, I know you are doing your best to fix this and probably loads of other stuff so thanks. It's just frustrating. 

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Hi @Andrew Jamesbut, (and apologies in advance for this), but I don't think you are quite right. 

Obviously the full game is out now and with it the in game editor. I've been trying to look at what's what and it turns out that my Youth Recruitment is not Exceptional at all, (at least not unless "Exceptional" is level 10 of 20 levels.

I've had a look at some of the other clubs in my league and many of theirs seem wrong too, but nothing like the difference in mine. 

Malmo. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = Level 20. 

Hammarby. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = Level 20. 

BK Häcken. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = Level 16.

IFK Norrköping FK. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = level 17.

Örebro SK. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = level 10. 

Now if I look at clubs in other leagues. 

Football Club Nordsjælland. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = level 19.

Football Club København. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = level 19. 

Football Club Midtjylland. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = level 20.

Aalborg Boldspilklub. Excellent Youth Recruitment = level 17. Hang on Norrkoping are Exceptional and they are also level 17

Aarhus Gymnastik Forening. Good Youth Recruitment = level 16. Hang on. Hacken are Exceptional and they are also level 16

Are any of these correct? 

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Hi all. I appreciate that you are all really busy and this might nor be a priority in terms of bugs that need to be fixed first, but are you aware if this has been resolved and if so when we are likely to see an patch that will fix it? 

If It's not going to be fixed then I at least know where I stand and will make decisions based on that. If it is going to be fixed shortly then that will have an impact on which save I play. 

Thanks in advance. :thup:

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@Jimbokav1971 I'm so glad people with the editor have been looking into this bug. It's major and was happening last year too but I couldn't get any discussion on it.

In my example (how I noticed it) it is potentially linked to affiliate clubs as daft as that sounds. At Liverpool I removed all the affiliate clubs as they were useless - this instantly crashes your junior coaching and youth recruitment levels in facilities. It happens every time without fail in FM19 and now FM20. If I get a new affiliate club, the display of my facilities will change again potentially back to the original state. This sounds exactly like what has happened to users above. In discussion last year, SI confirmed it was a display issue. Being the user, all we have is the user interface and if you can't trust what it displays then it is major to me. Most people are oblivious to these things - you just assume the background stuff is all working when it's not.

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Hi - apologies for the delay in response on this one.

The string displayed on this page for Junior Coaching and Youth Recruitment is not as simple as x/20 = description.

Clubs have a "Current" score out of 20, which is the base value that determines the effectiveness of the facilities, but they also have an "Expected" score out of 20 that's based on the club's reputation and some other factors, and a "Target" score out of 20 which is determined by the club (and board's) propensity for using their academy.

The string displayed is a calculation based on the Current score compared to Expected and Target, meaning that some teams with the same base value will have different strings display.

There is a bug where cancelling affiliate links downgrades the description string - but the scores are unaffected and this is to the best of our knowledge only a display issue. It's currently under review with our Dev team.

If you have any examples where you think something has gone wrong, feel free to upload a save to our cloud and we can look at it - and either provide an explanation of what's happened or pass on to our Devs if it's an example caused by something else.

Any questions, please ask.

Cheers,

Andrew

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27 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

Hi - apologies for the delay in response on this one.

The string displayed on this page for Junior Coaching and Youth Recruitment is not as simple as x/20 = description.

Clubs have a "Current" score out of 20, which is the base value that determines the effectiveness of the facilities, but they also have an "Expected" score out of 20 that's based on the club's reputation and some other factors, and a "Target" score out of 20 which is determined by the club (and board's) propensity for using their academy.

The string displayed is a calculation based on the Current score compared to Expected and Target, meaning that some teams with the same base value will have different strings display.

There is a bug where cancelling affiliate links downgrades the description string - but the scores are unaffected and this is to the best of our knowledge only a display issue. It's currently under review with our Dev team.

If you have any examples where you think something has gone wrong, feel free to upload a save to our cloud and we can look at it - and either provide an explanation of what's happened or pass on to our Devs if it's an example caused by something else.

Any questions, please ask.

Cheers,

Andrew

Hi @Andrew James

Thanks for the reply. We appreciate that there is a lot going on and you are busy. 

The above is a little confusing to me. Let's have a look at the following example.

244e8cac6a6e6adb4f282c5f67e6a1a8.png

I can understand that there will be a "slight" difference in the "level" even though the overall description is still "Exceptional" as described above, but I can't understand that how Exceptional can mean level 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20, but then also level 10 in the case of my club. 

You say the problem is a "display" issue, but I don't know whether the correct "display" is Exceptional Youth Recruitment or Average Youth Recruitment. 

I think that it's actually "Average" Youth Recruitment, but the whole point of me taking this job was because I thought it was "Exceptional" Youth Recruitment. 

It might just be a "display issue", but that display is all we get to see. When I am looking at a potential club to manage, I don't have anything else to go on. But it's not just when you are moving clubs that it's an issue, but when you arrive at a club and decide what sort of Manager you are going to be and how you are going to achieve the club vision. 

If you are not really into Youth Recruitment and promoting from within then yeah it probably is just a "display issue". If on the other hand you are trying to develop your own players via the Academy then it's an enormous problem. 

Edited by Jimbokav1971

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On 21/11/2019 at 21:07, Jimbokav1971 said:

Örebro SK. Exceptional Youth Recruitment = level 10. 

This one certainly appears to be incorrect. I think it's likely that affiliate links are essentially having too much effect on the string that's displayed, so if Orebro SK have established a new link, then it's caused their description to upgrade too much.

Certain types of affiliate link are intended to have an effect on Youth Recruitment, as they essentially expand the catchment area and give you first option on potential prospects - but not to these extremes.

Could you upload your save game for us to have a look at?

I'll keep this thread updated with any developments. 

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14 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

This one certainly appears to be incorrect. I think it's likely that affiliate links are essentially having too much effect on the string that's displayed, so if Orebro SK have established a new link, then it's caused their description to upgrade too much.

Certain types of affiliate link are intended to have an effect on Youth Recruitment, as they essentially expand the catchment area and give you first option on potential prospects - but not to these extremes.

Could you upload your save game for us to have a look at?

I'll keep this thread updated with any developments. 

I uploaded 3 saves on 17th November. 

884d68e18be688ada979d56775aaeae8.png

Just for some extra info, Orebro SK currently have 0 affiliations, (on 19th Oct 2028).

01a40eba90a8b3e6a1178021e056a835.png

If I go back and look at the saves I have uploaded to you then I can see that on 9th Nov 2027, Orebro SK had 0 affiliations. 

f81cba8f5d9d5025bc5024647cbe06a7.png

The oldest save I have as Manager of Orebro SK is dated 29th May 2027, (the day I was appointed), and on that day there were..... 0 affiliates. 

fbb7cc22003201dcf256e52ba27a7ab1.png

Although I wasn't manager of the club before this date, I can go back further and look at affiliations. 

If I go back to Sep 2026 and look at Orebro SK affiliations, again, there are no affiliations of any kind. 

39acb7dfc09333e082f0a670220a1dd0.png

Now let's look at Sep 2025. No affiliations. 

Sep 2024. No affiliations. 

Sep 2023. No affiliations. 

Sep 2021. No affiliations. 

Sep 2020. No affiliations. 

Look, I'm really not trying to be an arse here, but what you are suggesting just isn't true. This particular club has had no affiliations at any point throughout the game so whatever the issue is here, it absolutely is NOT caused by affiliate links. 

Thanks for responding and good luck finding the cause and a solution. 

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Thanks for the extra info @Jimbokav1971, apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

We are making progress with this one, but still haven't been able to get a reproducible example of a the description changing that hasn't been caused by the cancellation of an affiliate link. I've passed on your saves to the dev team, but ideally we still need a save from before the incorrect description appears with Steps to Reproduce the issue (even if it's just going holiday for a week or something).

Thanks for your patience. 

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8 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Thanks for the extra info @Jimbokav1971, apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

We are making progress with this one, but still haven't been able to get a reproducible example of a the description changing that hasn't been caused by the cancellation of an affiliate link. I've passed on your saves to the dev team, but ideally we still need a save from before the incorrect description appears with Steps to Reproduce the issue (even if it's just going holiday for a week or something).

Thanks for your patience. 

No problem @Andrew JamesThanks for the response. I appreciate that not everything is an easy fix. 

Although I have only been manager of Örebro SK since May 2027, I have regular saves from when I was at other clubs so i should be able to go back and provide you with a save at some point before the error 1st happens. 

29th May 2027 is the day that I took over Örebro SK. This is the club facilities page from that day and the in game editor info too. The info is showing incorrect here

f55218e4d0226bbe484afabcce4fcc8e.png

7f4a61a3c19c0a0b20b11db20ef2cc4a.png

I joined my previous club FK Karlskrona on 11th November 2024 and here is the club facilities page and the in game editor info too. The info is showing incorrect here

11e3a967b72c612ac423bd357346c19b.png

0ef005e0c951bfe54d9d7ded9ac3ae26.png

I joined my 3rd club IK Oddevold on 25th July 2023 and I have a save from 22nd July 2023. Here is the club Facilities page and the in game editor info too. The info is showing incorrect here

499274c1f5e1b02ad7f62756e2b91d72.png

b05642c7feb81a2d86a47d22158e4bdd.png

I joined my 2nd club Åtvidabergs FF on 7th Jan 2023 and I don't have a save about this time and unfortunately have to go back to 10th Oct 2021 for the previous save. Here is the Orebro Club Facilities page on that day and the in game editor info too. The info is showing..... well actually I'm not sure if I'm honest. Because the levels can't be trusted, there is no way to work out what level is what. It's possible that Level 10 Youth Recruitment is "Good", but I think we are looking for Average

066b95d7be8a500da6c5e755367173b9.png

3ca61de31e8dd8bcf897657f04de7869.png

I was appointed Manager at AFK Linköping on 7th April 2019 and although I don't have a save on that date, I do have a save from 8th June 2019.  Here is the Orebro Club Facilities page on that day and the in game editor info too.  The info is showing..... well actually I'm not sure if I'm honest. Because the levels can't be trusted, there is no way to work out what level is what. It's possible that Level 10 Youth Recruitment is "Good", but I think we are looking for Average.

50ce495e71bb7ebc2ee45007f549f39b.png

3eead55abb8ae23a8d41b598abee8ef2.png

I have uploaded the following saves in the hope that you can make some sense of it. 

51e118804a58083b84004e9ff81b4a1a.png

I do have other saves available, so if someone is looking at this and they are wondering if there is a save available at a certain time then please feel free to ask. This is a significant problem for me and I am happy to do whatever it takes to assist you in resolving this. 

 

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Hi @Jimbokav1971

Apologies for the delay, this was one I meant to provide an update on. 

We believe it's now fixed, and the fix should be save game compatible - so loading up the above saves should see the correct description once the next update is out.

As mentioned before, this one was a bit of a can of worms, and whilst we haven't found any fresh examples of it internally, that's not to say it's definitely working perfectly so if you do spot something wrong then we'd greatly appreciate further updates and save games.

Fingers crossed it'll all be good though :thup:

Cheers,

Andrew

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Thanks @Andrew James 

My own facilities have now improved to such an extent now that it's not easy to determine if it's worked or not. 

4a07058d15a5c487924512d1cf5c8dce.png

fde7a58c762777adf956fd5e301b4d30.png

That looks like everything might be ok.

If I look at some of the other examples I have found in this save.....

cb08e161021fa9d2a87697ca59c91c7b.png

b619c916d8a8f9382842ebcd8e4604e4.png

d6f05613bc9313671eb9355c628d7a74.png

No. This still doesn't look tight. If Youth Recruitment is classed at Level 19/20 can be labelled as "Exceptional" how can BK Häcken, who's Youth Recruitment is only level 16, also be labelled as Exceptional

[Edit]

Apologies. I had missed the "next update" but. Thanks very much for looking at this. :thup:

Edited by Jimbokav1971

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No worries @Jimbokav1971. If possible could you upload that latest save too? Would be handy to check our current fix against any fresh examples :) 

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No worries @Jimbokav1971. Loaded this save into a build with the fix in and description of BK Hacken's Youth Recruitment has correctly been downgraded to Good. 

Thanks for all your help on getting this one nailed :thup:

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Brilliant. I know it took a while, but I really appreciate the effort. Thank you. :applause:

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