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Specific Unset Attributes are set to 1

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1 hour ago, misterblort said:

Alright this a game-breaking bug. It was brought up during béta, the only sensible thing to do is postpone the release of the game until it is fixed.

Every bug before the Official release could've easily be explained as being in béta, but you released it in its broken state and deserve all the **** you get in this thread.

The way you handled this is ****-poor. Have some respect for your customers. The only reason you get away with this is the fact that you have no competition in the genre.

Getting more like FIFA by the day FM

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8 hours ago, Sebfromsusie said:

Why don't you fix it then if it's so simple?

Quote

ix your attitude before demanding anything tbh. If it was that simple a fix they would have already fixed it. They said they're working on it so stop your entitled whining and be patient.

 

your attitude is the worst. 

Edited by RealRed

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To give a bit of reassurance, I tweeted out about this earlier and WorkTheSpace referred it to the devs. Got this reply:

 

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31 minutes ago, xxlunch said:

Beta players try to help the game development process and report bugs which they don't have to. But some of the responses from mods are very irrelevant I think. And this attitude is not the first time I have seen in this forum. They have some problems. 

Denial of the problem is the first thing they do (Again I will mention "NOT ALL STAFF"). They act like the bug reporting player doesn't know even the basic stuff at the game and gives information about that. For example; in this topic, the mod says it is about the young player development process in 2020 but the writer mentioned in his post that he knows the given information already. I think they are not reading with a clear mind before responding.

I wish there were another football simulation game like fm so that they could be more careful. This bug and attitude are disadvantage of being monopoly i guess

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20 minutes ago, Trugdish said:

Just default the attributes to 10, problem solved

It's affecting over 200,000 players, and not the same attributes for all of them. Not so easy to change them all.

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21 minutes ago, uurpkr said:

I wish there were another football simulation game like fm so that they could be more careful. This bug and attitude are disadvantage of being monopoly i guess

There are. For free. Go play that until they patch it.

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16 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Hi all,

Quick update on this. 

To clear up exactly what the issue is - players at game start who do not have these attributes set in the database are being given too low a value. The values being given currently tend to be at one extreme or the other. This is partly by design as the majority of players this applies to are young, and at this age the spread is much more varied - but currently the numbers are skewed too far towards the lower end of the scale.

The changes we've made to player development and progression for FM20 mean that players with low scores for these attribute don't have to be written off as useless - these mental attributes are now much more flexible in both directions and although a player's starting point may be a bit lower due to this bug, the correct nurturing of the player is still the most important factor in whether they'll be successful.

Newgens are not effected by this issue.

This is still under review, and I hope you appreciate the need to ensure there are no knock-on effects before making a change and rolling out a fix.

Cheers,

Andrew

Thanks for taking time out to address this thread but your answer is null and void. This is a massive bug that needs attention ASAP. No-one in there right mind would start any save with this issue. Surely a quick hot fix to randomise any attribute that's set at 0 would sort it out.

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No wonder my Hudson-Odoi is playsing ike dogsh1t in my new save. How can you have a career with Chelsea when the brightest prospect is like that, and he was a beast in my beta save. I also see Foden in the list, damn. There is no way I would start a career with this bug. It needs to be fixed ASAP.

Is there any way to start new career with beta 20.0.3 database (2000)? That would be the only fix at this moment imho.

Edited by longruoi1

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Guest

 

so what is the point of publishing a game that is not playable ... why not wait for the release so we get what we paid for?

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As an illustration of how things seem to skew in weaker/all-random-attributes leagues, here's my guys.

shot1.thumb.png.ca1f461f35d96d9b052576379bcc6d7c.png

Woeful Determination, of course (even the only two players older than 21-ish in the squad, Sartori and Yeksel), but in what I suspect is the way the available pool of attribute points spreads around when Det (and presumably the hidden ones as well) is rock-bottom, remarkably good Decisions for a pack of basement league no-hopers.

 

shot2.thumb.png.7bd88d94d8149144f89381633e3152ad.png

Remarkably Aggressive, at that. (And their Anticipation isn't bad either.)

I added a manager to browse the other Swedish Div 2 teams and check, and this is typical. Almost all Determination at 1, other mental attributes - in particular Aggression, Decisions, Anticipation, Leadership - really very high. The bottom team in Div 2 Soddra Gottland had only one player with Aggression below 8 and only four (I think) with Leadership below the same. And only two with Determination higher than 1 (at 3 and 7; woop).

 

Edited by cregan

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And I was about to buy it this year on release :rolleyes: Good that I first checked what bugs are currently in.

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9 hours ago, Sebfromsusie said:

Why don't you fix it then if it's so simple?

I personally think it's quite simple fix for SI.

 

17 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Hi all,

Quick update on this. 

To clear up exactly what the issue is - players at game start who do not have these attributes set in the database are being given too low a value. The values being given currently tend to be at one extreme or the other. This is partly by design as the majority of players this applies to are young, and at this age the spread is much more varied - but currently the numbers are skewed too far towards the lower end of the scale.

The changes we've made to player development and progression for FM20 mean that players with low scores for these attribute don't have to be written off as useless - these mental attributes are now much more flexible in both directions and although a player's starting point may be a bit lower due to this bug, the correct nurturing of the player is still the most important factor in whether they'll be successful.

Newgens are not effected by this issue.

This is still under review, and I hope you appreciate the need to ensure there are no knock-on effects before making a change and rolling out a fix.

Cheers,

Andrew

Just revert the database back to beta 20.0.3 database and it should be fine. The bug started appearing with beta 20.1.0 database.

And in the meantime please sack whoever executed that dreadful database change.

Edited by longruoi1

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16 minutes ago, fiorentina said:

 

so what is the point of publishing a game that is not playable ... why not wait for the release so we get what we paid for?

dont know why letters got so big, im not screaming, just asking.-)

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I started a game when i bought into the beta, currently 24/25, (i think it was 20.0.0.4) in which i have zero players with a combination of 1-1 consistency and important matches (its 24/25 now ingame)

tried starting a new game, only to see the 1-1 in 40-50% of the database, so im assuming the 20.1.0 update is what introduced this issue 

 

just as a message to those people who say it should have been caught months ago.

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6 minutes ago, Parkera said:

Asking for this is uncalled for no matter what! 

They decided to make a remarkable change to the database just 1 week before releasing, and didn't even care about the impact? The hell, if they even checked this thread they would revert whatever changes they made and everything would be fine. 

 

Edited by longruoi1

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This game on steam, and Steam only refund for 2 hours gameplay. I think for FM, player need at least 200 hours to ACTUALLY know the game bad or not. I bet alot of player in this forum want a refund lol

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Just now, dangngo6 said:

This game on steam, and Steam only refund for 2 hours gameplay. I think for FM, player need at least 200 hours to ACTUALLY know the game bad or not. I bet alot of player in this forum want a refund lol

i dont, its freaking annoying that patchnotes are lacking at best, its awful that day 1 the game is in worse state than when it was in beta.

 

but some half-assed fix will be in, and atleast i can continue my save.

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1 ora fa, Parkera ha scritto:

How do you know this per say?  When you say release do you mean full release or Beta release?

Of course I mean full release...

Bugs on Beta are "expected" (although maybe not such game-breaking ones) and those who pre-order accept to pay/play an unfinished game to help the devs ironing things out.

About the week timeline, I was being optimistic... Apparently it was the day before launch... Still doesn't change the fact it's very disappointing and sloppy on SI's part. THREE key attributes being set "too low" (talk about understatement) for all players with "0" is something you'd expect database QA to spot immediately during one of the many soak tests devs have talked about in the past when dealing with other, minor, statistical attribute-related oddities.

1 ora fa, 247Raumdeuter ha scritto:

Well we paid for a piece of software here, comparing it to microwaves or cars doesn't make sense. It's gamebreaking, they don't really acknowledge, super annoying but it'll be fixed. All we can do until then is wait. Getting all amped up isn't gonna fix the issue. Stoicism. We can't fix it, they can. So all we can do is wait and in the meantime, go do something else. FM surely can't be the centre of our lives.

Again, let's eat **** and pretend it's chocolate...

Be it a piece of software or a physical product, they've sold us something subpar and basically unusable

It's a matter of principle. I can still play my Beta save, I can do plenty of other things with my time. But I paid good money for a non-good game. And as said, the passive attitude is what have caused the VG industry to get to the greedy points it has reached, with the majority of players being almost resigned to games being absolute messes upon release and even for months afterwards.

A footie management game with a flawed database-generation process is Tony Hawk 5 level of terrible state on launchday. Treating it like there's a minor bug in the registration rules for the Australian A-league is is a disservice to us gamers, to our rights as customers and to the entire industry.

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Just now, longruoi1 said:

You could say that again.

 

Everyone can make mistakes, but damn, did they even checked the feedbacks of us, the beta testers,  the ones who love the game enough to preorder the game. This would be a very simple fix: Oops, I f@cked up with this update, should revert it asap. DONE.

 

The fact that they let this bug get through proves their aggrorance to their loyal customers. This company will surely go nowhere.

i think the biggest issue is that their release schedule is very inflexible, and their updates are infrequent at best, they could take a page out of the books of other devs and be a bit more transparent as to what their plans are.

they could have gone full Tropico and postponed it for a few days and fix it, but its evident they will fix it when "they get around to it"

 

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9 minuti fa, PhillipAlpha ha scritto:

just as a message to those people who say it should have been caught months ago.

And that's even worse!

If the db was working fine, what did they change to go from "RNG fills unset values with reasonable and appropriate values" to "mostly 1 for those attributes"? Was it a side-effect of another change? Again, we circle back to awful QA and/or to lack of communication.

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8 hours ago, Kyznar said:

Im live streaming over at Twitch, about to start my release save when this bug was brought to my attention. So i investigated and found multiple newly creates saves like in this image. Around 370k players loaded in database(red circle), and regardless of age, 280k of them(orange circle) have 1 in ALL THREE attributes - Important matches, Consistency and Versatility(green circle). This is game breaking and unacceptable, similar numbers happening on EVERY save game I create! I hope SI are working overnight to fix this because this is awful. BTW when u scout any of these players in game, some have more than 1 determination and the scout report ONLY shows a dark red consistency "weakness" and doesnt acknowledge the other 2 attributes set as 1 also. I am speechless how this has launched like that.....

unplayable.png

But the game still cost 50€+ right ? What a joke

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Just now, Marc Duffy said:

Issue has been acknowledged and we are currently preparing a hotfix that addresses this particular issue. 

Thanks for the info Marc, would it be possible to say if the Hotfix will be save game compatible? Before I push on with my game :)

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5 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

And that's even worse!

If the db was working fine, what did they change to go from "RNG fills unset values with reasonable and appropriate values" to "mostly 1 for those attributes"? Was it a side-effect of another change? Again, we circle back to awful QA and/or to lack of communication.

They didn't really care about the feedbacks from us for sure. Why did they decide to make the update that lead to this bug? Why didn't they revert it before releasing when they saw this thread few days ago? This mess would have been avoided if they had had a little bit less arrogance and listened to us their loyal sheeps.

Edited by longruoi1

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Just now, Murraymint said:

Thanks for the info Marc, would it be possible to say if the Hotfix will be save game compatible? Before I push on with my game :)

It won't be, since it affects the attributes assigned to the players at the start of the game.

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4 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

And that's even worse!

If the db was working fine, what did they change to go from "RNG fills unset values with reasonable and appropriate values" to "mostly 1 for those attributes"? Was it a side-effect of another change? Again, we circle back to awful QA and/or to lack of communication.

we don't know, and i agree, we need more communication with what the end-goal for these things are.

It can't be right that russian free2play/whalefarm devs are better at providing transparency as to what directions things are going.

The playerbase is not by any means always right, but being more clear with whats being changed and why, would atleast offer an idea about the mindset of what "needs to be fixed". we are not the enemy.

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2 minutes ago, Murraymint said:

Thanks for the info Marc, would it be possible to say if the Hotfix will be save game compatible? Before I push on with my game :)

if i had to guess, it wont be - you'd have to restart your save, as this circles back to being about the initial state of the game, as it does not impact regens?

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1 minute ago, Murraymint said:

Thanks for the info Marc, would it be possible to say if the Hotfix will be save game compatible? Before I push on with my game :)

NOPE. Database related changes never apply to a current save.

 

Imagine someone who doesnt aware of this bug and starts a career on day one...

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Just now, longruoi1 said:

They didn't really care about the feedbacks from us for sure. Why did they decide to make the update that lead to this bug? Why didn't they revert it when they saw this thread? This mess would have been avoided if they had had a little bit less arrogance and listened to us their loyal sheeps.

The same loyal sheeps that want people sacking as soon as a mistake is made? This is the problem with anything like this, its an error that has been made, and people want their pound of flesh without thinking of consequence, at least its not in the magnitude of errors that cost the Ariane 501 launch in 1996.

 

A fix has been announced, and will probably roll later on today. All those of you moaning about this, remember, some companies would deny knowledge of a bugs existence, let alone, acknowledge and provide a solution within 48 hours.

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6 minutes ago, Marc Duffy said:

Issue has been acknowledged and we are currently preparing a hotfix. 

Good stuff, glad to hear it.

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7 minutes ago, Marc Duffy said:

Issue has been acknowledged and we are currently preparing a hotfix. 

Thanks Marc for the update!

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1 minute ago, robterrace said:

The same loyal sheeps that want people sacking as soon as a mistake is made? This is the problem with anything like this, its an error that has been made, and people want their pound of flesh without thinking of consequence, at least its not in the magnitude of errors that cost the Ariane 501 launch in 1996.

 

A fix has been announced, and will probably roll later on today. All those of you moaning about this, remember, some companies would deny knowledge of a bugs existence, let alone, acknowledge and provide a solution within 48 hours.

this, the behaviour in this threat is awful for the most part.

 

the only way to combat it though is to remain transparent about the goings on, other devs do it (from EA to Paradox), and not worry about the mouthbreathers that just want to see blood.

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4 minutes ago, robterrace said:

The same loyal sheeps that want people sacking as soon as a mistake is made? This is the problem with anything like this, its an error that has been made, and people want their pound of flesh without thinking of consequence, at least its not in the magnitude of errors that cost the Ariane 501 launch in 1996.

 

A fix has been announced, and will probably roll later on today. All those of you moaning about this, remember, some companies would deny knowledge of a bugs existence, let alone, acknowledge and provide a solution within 48 hours.

I will wait and see if they publicly notify all of their customers about this bug. Because even when they patches it, the bugged database is still in the old save and a new one needs to be created.

Edited by longruoi1

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb lookass:

Even though we made this thread, SI didn't work.
I'm so mad :seagull:

Are you surprised ? It's the same with Netflix . They don't care how good their Original Series or Movies are. All they seriously care about is the Subscriber Numbers . This is going on for years now with FM . Full Release is not really a Full Release . It has been buggy since YEARS !!! I don't know or understand why SI doesn't delay the Official Release for a Week or two . But no ... lets push it out and make the Faithful Players of the Game mad .... :seagull:

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21 minutes ago, PhillipAlpha said:

i dont, its freaking annoying that patchnotes are lacking at best, its awful that day 1 the game is in worse state than when it was in beta.

 

but some half-assed fix will be in, and atleast i can continue my save.

agree on the half-assed fix

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11 minutes ago, Marc Duffy said:

Issue has been acknowledged and we are currently preparing a hotfix. 

Thanks heaps Marc, much appreciated. 

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Can we be more transparent over this fix? I feel like the community’s anger will grow if it’s not fixed in an expected way, with little to no room for feedback.

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Just now, wpmk said:

Can we be more transparent over this fix? I feel like the community’s anger will grow if it’s not fixed in an expected way, with little to no room for feedback.

i dont want the user to give feedback, but it would be nice to atleast find out what the thoughtprocess behind the change in DB rules from 20.0.0.3 to 20.1 was, just so we as users know what to look for in terms of potential related issues :)

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24 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

But I paid good money for a non-good game.

Really? How many hours did you expect to get in on launch day? How many hours before the release of the next version? I think many of us are overreacting. Again, it's launch day. You'll have so much time to spend in a fixed version of the game, does day one really matter that much to you? Is it necessary to claim we got cheated on with a faulty product when in reality all of us know it's going to be fixed within a few hours or days?

 

I don't think it's the calm customer who's causing problems to developer's work but people who are so incredibly focused on deadlines.

Edited by 247Raumdeuter

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Whilst I'm not massively "angry" or anything, it is annoying and I won't be starting a save with this issue in the background undermining it.  It'd be a waste of time...by the same token so is carrying on a beta save I'm not going to play after a patch drops !

 

I'll see you all on/in another game ;)

Edited by Jaffa

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2 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Are you surprised ? It's the same with Netflix . They don't care how good their Original Series or Movies are. All they seriously care about is the Subscriber Numbers . This is going on for years now with FM . Full Release is not really a Full Release . It has been buggy since YEARS !!! I don't know or understand why SI doesn't delay the Official Release for a Week or two . But no ... lets push it out and make the Faithful Players of the Game mad .... :seagull:

This time it is much more terrible because it corrupts the whole save. And to make it worse, it would have been avoided with a simple fix if they had listened to us the preorder men, the ones who had to pay to test this game for them.

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it’s a huge mistake!    i don't know what you did in the year! a disabled game engine and many huge stupid bugs

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