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Hi all, just after a bit of advice

 

I have a player who is young (21) left back who is first team level and currently my first choice.    He is performing ok, but the players around him are all performing to a much higher standard.  We are currently third when we are simply aiming for a top half finish.

 

Although early in the season (10 league games in), one of the early patterns I have noticed is that whenever we go in front, this player becomes "complacent" in his body language.  I am then finding it impossible to do anything to take this complacency away.  If I ask him to "concentrate" via touchline shouts, I see no change.  If I "Demand More", he becomes "overwhelmed".  In the last game we played, I told him I was unhappy with his performance in the half time team talk (2-1 up, 6.4 rating - next lowest on the team 6.8, no mistakes leading to goals) in the hope that he would buck his ideas up.  Instead he "looked stressed" and then continued to under-perform for the rest of the game.

 

This player also regularly trains poorly, and I think under normal circumstances I would consider dropping him.  However, I do not really have able cover, and he also has a 17 for long throws.  As I am playing in the Conference North, this is very useful, and indeed, the only games where he has received a decent rating are the ones where he has provided an assist or otherwise caused problems with his throws.  

 

Any advice on how I can get better performances out of him?  It is clear that he is decent for his level but his poor mentality is letting him down.

 

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2 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Hi all, just after a bit of advice

 

I have a player who is young (21) left back who is first team level and currently my first choice.    He is performing ok, but the players around him are all performing to a much higher standard.  We are currently third when we are simply aiming for a top half finish.

 

Although early in the season (10 league games in), one of the early patterns I have noticed is that whenever we go in front, this player becomes "complacent" in his body language.  I am then finding it impossible to do anything to take this complacency away.  If I ask him to "concentrate" via touchline shouts, I see no change.  If I "Demand More", he becomes "overwhelmed".  In the last game we played, I told him I was unhappy with his performance in the half time team talk (2-1 up, 6.4 rating - next lowest on the team 6.8, no mistakes leading to goals) in the hope that he would buck his ideas up.  Instead he "looked stressed" and then continued to under-perform for the rest of the game.

 

This player also regularly trains poorly, and I think under normal circumstances I would consider dropping him.  However, I do not really have able cover, and he also has a 17 for long throws.  As I am playing in the Conference North, this is very useful, and indeed, the only games where he has received a decent rating are the ones where he has provided an assist or otherwise caused problems with his throws.  

 

Any advice on how I can get better performances out of him?  It is clear that he is decent for his level but his poor mentality is letting him down.

 

Try changing his role, duty or player instructions. If his mental attributes are way below the the standards of the league, don’t give him roles that require a lot technical stuff. Something like CWB, that has things like run with ball often, tries risky passes, roam from position. If he lacks the composure, determination, decisions, anticipation, concentration....it’ll be hard for him to pull it off 

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@Junkhead  You're describing someone with a poor personality: bad attitude in matches, bad attitude towards training.  As he's still young, I'd get him into a Mentoring group asap with some influential players who have better personalities.  It'll take some time but you should be able to see improvement.

On the flip side and if you need something done more urgently (or Mentoring doesn't work) sell and bring in someone better.

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@herne79 is right. Regardless of what you do with the player in question, it's always worth sorting out mentoring to help prevent this in future. Obviously Model Citizen and Model Professional are the gold standard personalities, but someone with Driven, Determined or Professional make very good tutors. In last years game with my Las Palmas save I even signed Inigo Calderon to do nothing but help mentor my young players, so if you don't have anyone who can perform that role for you then perhaps look at a few old timers with decent personalities you can pick up for free and on low wages.

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Thanks for this - I have changed his role slightly so that I'm asking him to do less, and am now on the lookout for a suitable mentor - hopefully this will improve him!

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8 hours ago, yellowforever said:

In last years game with my Las Palmas save I even signed Inigo Calderon to do nothing but help mentor my young player

This is pretty much the only reason players over the age of 34 stay at my team. Mentoring and being a positive dressing room influence.

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It's a case of which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Is the player training poorly as a consequence of you digging him out all the time or was he training poorly from the very first training session?

I've found a players morale has a huge impact on the ratings they get for training which makes sense. You aren't going to get someone to run through a brick wall for you when you are constantly being hyper critical of them. From my perspective, getting a 6.4 rating isn't bad enough to warrant singling him out and telling him you're not happy with his performance. A 6.4 rating is above average and that's why he probably got stressed out.

Besides, what exactly are you expecting from him as a fullback? He is not going to score many goals, provide many assists (usually fullbacks that low down in the footballing pyramid aren't very good attacking wise that's if you even have him attacking) or make many goal saving tackles which would increase his rating. As long as he puts in decent performances and does his job, I don't see the problem.

I also don't see the merits of mentoring a player that will probably leave if you get promoted anyway as he is unlikely to be able to make the step up. As he is only decent for the level you are currently at it's doubtful he could develop enough to match the new level. I'd advise to lay off him for a bit and see if he improves and if he does to be as strong with the praise as you have been with the criticism. What personality does he have?

Best Regards

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@pheelf thanks for this - think there is certainly some merit in what you've said, but I'm not sure I agree with all of it.  By that I mean you might be right about how it is, but I am not sure you should be, if that makes sense?

I am certainly not expecting him to score or assist with any regularity, however he does have a couple of assists due to long throws.  In those games he gets decent ratings, but the assists add to that rating and mask what in reality are further below par overall performances. In the games with no assists, there is no hiding the low ratings.

 

Also, I get what you're saying about 6.4 not being that low, but everything is relative. This guy got a 6.4 rating whilst most others on the team were getting high sevens or low eights in that game, for example.

Of course, I can forgive a few bad performances - he is young and not particularly technically gifted. However, to me, someone who is  "complacent" is either being overly relaxed with their approach physically through lack of effort, or mentally due to lack of concentration.  The "in the moment" options during a match - short of subbing him - I felt was to request him to concentrate. I tried this during 3 or 4 matches and at no point does that complacent flag change. Naturally, this leads me to assume he is lacking physical effort, or the will to try hard. So, via touchline shouts, I "demand more". This "frustrates" him. And then, 20 minutes later, we're back to "complacent" body language coupled with his usual sub par performance.  So when this cycle is repeating again, I tell him that a 6.4 is disappointing, which stresses him out. Not only that, but he is consistently amongst the bottom 5 players at the club in terms of training performance.

 

I think this is very clearly a poor personality, but I feel like I should be able to do more about this than I can. And, if i remind someone to keep their wits about them during a game and they ignore me, and then I demand that they try harder and they get annoyed with me, I find it weird that they then come over all anxious when I directly tell them to sort themselves out. How come I they're annoyed at me during touchline shouts but anxious after essentially the same conversation in the dressing room?

I am on the lookout for a mentor for this guy, but in my latest game he's been sent off for two stupid yellows. Starting to feel his days are numbered....

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Can I ask you to post a screenshot of the tactic you are using along with a profile of the player in question?

I agree with the thrust of what you wrote but I think it highlights an issue with interpretation of the information the game presents.

I don't read complacency as meaning that the player isn't putting a shift in or lacking in concentration. Rather I think complacency indicates a player has an over inflated view of his performance which doesn't necessarily correlate with him lacking effort. A lack of concentration I think would be indicated by a lack of focus in his body language. 

As for your question about the difference between his reaction to touchline shouts and dressing room conversations, well, ask yourself this question.

If you were a player would you prefer to be told off in front of a stadium of people or privately in the confines of a dressing room?

Personally, I would only give an individual touchline shout if a player was really under performing and for me that would be a sub 6.0 match rating. 

Maybe you need to drop him from the starting 11 for a while. A player will have a complacent attitude if he knows that he is guaranteed a spot in the team and as you have no alternatives he is justified in his thinking.

All the best

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@pheelf

 

This is the player concerned.  At the moment he has been playing as a Left Fullback on Support behind a wide playmaker in the midfield strata who cuts inside.  He has previously played as a fullback on attack and a wing back on support.  The results seem consistent across all three roles.  I have recently dropped him due to performance, his last game - a 0-0 draw - he attained a 5.9 rating.  He is still my worst trainer. 

 

image.thumb.png.8740398d6497a9002a3b2ad4de420dc5.png

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Looking at the attributes, the one thing that stands out is his terrible determination. As he is a real player they have given him the personality of 'Balanced' (to avoid legal issues) but I suspect that if he was a newgen he would be considered 'Slack' which would explain why he trains so poorly and tends to have a high opinion of his performances.

I don't think chastising him will work as he will just switch off as you have seen. Aside from mentoring which is unlikely to work I can't see anything else that would improve his performances. If it were my player I'd be looking to move him on A.S.A.P. and would be willing to use a lower ability player with a better personality until I could find a replacement. You may find that despite having a lower ability the worse player puts in better performances. After all, A 100 CA player playing to 75% of their ability 80% of the time will on average trump a 125 CA player playing to 75% of their ability 20% of the time. 

Best Regards

Edited by pheelf

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Bad personalities can indeed be impossible to coach. It can be very frustrating, but yeah, basically the only thing you can do is try mentoring him.

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