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Marko1989

Is Football Manager going in the right direction for you?

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20 hours ago, kidd_05_u2 said:

I share the OP's frustration in that I feel the game is not evolving fast in the areas I care about the most, which are the ME and 3d representation.

The ME runs into similar problems every year, in my view. There are a few big problems that have been present pretty much in every iteration of the ME at least from FM16 on, like lack of through balls from the middle and to the middle (not long balls getting over the defense), defenders reacting with lag to long balls and sometimes not engaging at all, lack of off-the-ball attacking movement in the final third, and lack of diversity on 1v1 opportunities.

There are also the big "bugs" of every ME, like the amount of blocked crosses in FM19 or the superpowered crosses in FM 16 (I think it was FM16), which I guess are inevitable given how the games' production cycle goes.

Regarding 3d, I know Football Manager isn't a AAA game, but the fact that PRO EVOLUTION 3, released in 2003, looks so much better than FM 2019 is puzzling and frustrating. I know the two games are trying to represent totally different things, but still.

 

Why dont you play with the just commentary on like proper players.Then through balls dontmatter

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The FM Touch version of the game is brilliant this year.

Only problem is you cant view the general screen for u21 national squads, and the scouting is next to useless.

I can send my scouts to france and they hardly find anything. Even when a lowly prem club. So annoying because other than that the game is great

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I only buy it every 4yrs. You see lots of improvements, enhancement new features etc. Makes it worth the money and more exciting.

I don't know how/why people buy it yearly. In the 4yrs I played fm16 I played one season as my team (Bolton). I played a few with chorley in another save. And then my final save I did 7 seasons with Ballymena in northern Ireland. 

Doesn't sound like a lot, but I had so much fun, and went into serious detail, and got the most out of it. Can't wait to do the same with fm20 (my team Bolton again with an interesting start)

However, I've been rather a bit disappointed with the beta 3d graphics. I was happy the way the game looked in fm16 graphically.... All that needed to change was goalkeepers movement and 1 on 1 situations. Did my own analysis on it with Ballymena (1 in 20 one on ones were successful for me in 7  seasons) with a striker averaging 25-35 goals a season.

The engine has improved, a bit, since the 20.0.03 update... So I'm hoping its the fact its a beta that its slow. But I can't load more than 3 leagues with out it being slow, jumpy and unwatchable.... I'm happy to watch 2d, but I'd play much more watching 3d. Only so much dot watching you can do in a night

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On 07/11/2019 at 16:05, HUNT3R said:

Your reason for "SI games are simply a very poor software house now" is

??It's supposed to be a simulation not something arcade-like.

 

Both you and the OP want "fun" not realism. That can be had in a way with FM, but you'd have to download exploit tactics etc for that, for a start.

If you mean the Collyer brothers, they're still here.

 

----

 

In general (not just to you) - Look, I get that different people want different things. Just keep a sense of perspective of what the game is or is trying to be. If you want something different, there's no issue with that at all. It's not the game's or SI's fault though. To a degree, the people who want less realism can still have that.

The Collyer brothers still there working? They weren't last time I checked, about 10 years ago.

Simulation? Simulation of what? This game has went from probably my favourite game to a game I will no longer buy(first year, I caved in last year). Do you think I'm lying? I've been buying the series since it came out, have you?

Oh the "Touch" version. Complete rip off. Buy a magic sponge anyone? Just £2.49? Or whatever.

Yes, SI Games are doomed at this rate, you'll see when you get your sales report.

Apart from the legions of fanboys on here who evidently haven't got a clue what they are talking about(this is my last message), so I expect more pointless replies with a splatter of personal attacks(which I won't read, so save your breath).

I am telling you what I think okay? I have spent hundreds of £ on this series, recommended it to friends etc. and your reply is the best you can do? Why do you take it personally?

Proof that you don't give a damn about genuine criticism, been like this every time I forward comments on this subject(improving game), defensive which means I'm right. Shame the deluded fanboys don't know a bad game even if it punches them in the mouth. In fact if the fanboys weren't so dense maybe you'd be forced to actually do something about the broken ME.

Simulation of course. Bad and getting worse simulation(no matter how many screens you add, update the data and charge full price for essentially the same game from 10 years ago) keep it.

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2 minutes ago, davewhite04 said:

The Collyer brothers still there working? They weren't last time I checked, about 10 years ago.

fXqvdtU.png

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4 minutes ago, davewhite04 said:

Proof that you don't give a damn about genuine criticism,

Genuine criticism isn't throwing your toys out of the pram with insults to developers and fans because you can't have it your way.

Your posts comes across as entitled and sour. If I spoke to you like that would you want to listen or engage? Doubt it.

Put your points across in a more reasoned way and you will find that goes a long way.

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30 minutes ago, davewhite04 said:

with a splatter of personal attacks

Not a personal attack, just a ban for being abusive.

I'll ask everyone else not to respond any further to that post.

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I've been playing since CM2, and while CM03/04 will always be my favourite thanks to having my name in the credits (A short term testing position during my gap year) and the greatest Arsenal team ever, every new version is always the "best" version. We're still in beta so there are some clear day 1 issues to iron out in 20, but once they are fixed I'll struggle to go back even to 19. I'm struggling now, despite having a player making progress towards the Pele challenge that I'd really like to see out. 

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Knew I shouldn't have popped in here.

In answer to topic title When I'm winning yes, when I'm losing no!

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It seems that SI budget is not only reason why we will not get better representation of football anywhere soon. I would say that the second reason is - fanbase. Veteran players are so negative whenever somebody mention better looking 3D. "We don't need that, this is managment game", "go play fifa", "oh no it will make game slower", "oh no I would have to upgrade my pc"

And they are not saying that because they would not like to see better looking football, but because they must show how hardcore fans they are - "No, I don't need better looking football I have flashing commentary"; "I'm so hardcore I don't even watch my games, I set my tactic and then turn off my monitor"

We already have complete managment game which is complex enough, I would like to see that, combined with atmosferic, fun to look, exciting, football. But If more complicated social media handling, or some players social groups is the right direction for you guys ok, I respect that.

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3 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

It seems that SI budget is not only reason why we will not get better representation of football anywhere soon. I would say that the second reason is - fanbase. Veteran players are so negative whenever somebody mention better looking 3D. "We don't need that, this is managment game", "go play fifa", "oh no it will make game slower", "oh no I would have to upgrade my pc"

And they are not saying that because they would not like to see better looking football, but because they must show how hardcore fans they are - "No, I don't need better looking football I have flashing commentary"; "I'm so hardcore I don't even watch my games, I set my tactic and then turn off my monitor"

We already have complete managment game which is complex enough, I would like to see that, combined with atmosferic, fun to look, exciting, football. But If more complicated social media handling, or some players social groups is the right direction for you guys ok, I respect that.

People were saying that 15-20 years ago, it didn’t stop 2D and later on 3D coming in.

It’s more likely to be hardware that holds it back - SI can see what players are using to run the game and it’s been said before there are plenty using older PCs and laptops. No point bringing something new in if a big chunk of the users can’t run it.

We’ve had 3D over 10 years now, I imagine we’ll eventually get a more modern looking 3D view.

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4 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

It seems that SI budget is not only reason why we will not get better representation of football anywhere soon. I would say that the second reason is - fanbase. Veteran players are so negative whenever somebody mention better looking 3D. "We don't need that, this is managment game", "go play fifa", "oh no it will make game slower", "oh no I would have to upgrade my pc"

And they are not saying that because they would not like to see better looking football, but because they must show how hardcore fans they are - "No, I don't need better looking football I have flashing commentary"; "I'm so hardcore I don't even watch my games, I set my tactic and then turn off my monitor"

We already have complete managment game which is complex enough, I would like to see that, combined with atmosferic, fun to look, exciting, football. But If more complicated social media handling, or some players social groups is the right direction for you guys ok, I respect that.

It's not that many of us don't want better looking 3d. Speaking only for myself, I'd like to see better 3d, but that is not the core of the game. I think the match engine is much more important than the graphical representation. The match engine is the "math" behind the scenes finding out what is supposed to happen. The graphics engine is the way it's represented to the user, e.g. the graphics. So what many are saying is that the underlying engine is more important than how it looks.

I mostly play in 2d or even commentary only, but that's mostly because I'm used to it. I still give 3d a go every once in a while, and sometimes have that as a replay to see the goal in 3d. That said, I really like to focus on youth development and training rather than tactics, so the matches are less important to me than many other things in the game.

So I think it's less a "purist" type of view, but rather a difference in opinion.

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Have to agree with the original post. This interaction with unhappy players is taking the fun out of the game. And way overboard.

Im signing players on new contracts and a 3 months later they want to leave to a bigger club and throwing a hissy fit.

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On 07/11/2019 at 12:02, Mitja said:

i wish SI stayed with 2D. by now we would have far superior ME and SI could concentrate on other parts of the game. 

I'm not to sure about that. I do think that a lot of frustration about the 3D ME isn't actually the ME, but clumsy animations we just didn't have in 2D.

As to the OP, just take a break from the game. It can do wonders is my own experience.

Personally I wouldn't mind if SI would skip a year though, make the next season a paid DLC DB upgrade and I would be fine. Perhaps it would give them a bit more time to experiment and develop aspects of the game that have become a bit stale over the years. I really like the new club vision feature though, that was exactly one of those stale parts that definitely needed some innovation.

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Em 07/11/2019 em 13:59, kidd_05_u2 disse:

I share the OP's frustration in that I feel the game is not evolving fast in the areas I care about the most, which are the ME and 3d representation.

The ME runs into similar problems every year, in my view. There are a few big problems that have been present pretty much in every iteration of the ME at least from FM16 on, like lack of through balls from the middle and to the middle (not long balls getting over the defense), defenders reacting with lag to long balls and sometimes not engaging at all, lack of off-the-ball attacking movement in the final third, and lack of diversity on 1v1 opportunities.

There are also the big "bugs" of every ME, like the amount of blocked crosses in FM19 or the superpowered crosses in FM 16 (I think it was FM16), which I guess are inevitable given how the games' production cycle goes.

Regarding 3d, I know Football Manager isn't a AAA game, but the fact that PRO EVOLUTION 3, released in 2003, looks so much better than FM 2019 is puzzling and frustrating. I know the two games are trying to represent totally different things, but still.

Perfect

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11 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

I would say that the second reason is - fanbase. Veteran players are so negative whenever somebody mention better looking 3D. "We don't need that, this is managment game", "go play fifa", "oh no it will make game slower", "oh no I would have to upgrade my pc"

Where does this come from? I have not seen a single person say this, except to denigrate the "veteran fanbase". Not a single person on this thread has said they do not want better graphics. Absolutely everyone has said that they do that I have seen so far. Some people just do not see it as the most important issue to focus on. I would love to know where this false narrative is coming from. 

I can assure you if SI focused their entire effort on making graphics that look better than FIFA, a whole bunch of people here would be moaning loudly about how they did not focus on the core aspects of gameplay, and how this was a joke. 

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If a competitor came along that had no social media, no player interaction, no press conferences, no training customization, but a superior match engine I would switch over in a heartbeat. I won't buy FM2020 because the ME doesn't excite me, from the demo I can already tell it's going to be another year of high pressure gegenpress and 40 shots per game matches.

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2 minutes ago, FMExperiment said:

If a competitor came along that had no social media, no player interaction, no press conferences, no training customization, but a superior match engine I would switch over in a heartbeat.

Yeah, good luck with that. 

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Not really sure why 'social media' is a stick people beat FM with on here. It's such a small part of the game. It's like saying you won't buy the game ever again because of the Leaderboard screen. Social media is part of everyday life. I don't use the feature all that much, but I understand why it's there. It's not holding any other part of the game back, however. 

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I think the FM series is basically an ongoing project. Every year it gets slightly better with little things tweaked or different features undergoing a revamp.

I dont get the thing with the graphics side of it, its football manager sim, not a FIFA style game. Yes the match engine could still be improved but there is not point in improving the graphics unless we have a decent match engine. In most management sims, the gameplay is what counts, thats why we get things added like dynamics and the new development centre, its to make it as realistic as possible.

I dont know what some people expect from SI. Yes there are things that need improvement but as i mentioned its an ongoing project, they cant possibly fulfill everyones individual wants and needs each year.

 

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I've read some and ill put my opinion across.

The ME is just the bigger picture to most people these days and although it's been good in the past subjectively it hasn't been great since 17 imo. I can't speak for 18 cause i never played it but did see footage and worked quite well but the graphics did me up (it was on a mac tho xD). Immersive realism outside the ME is almost realistic and works a treat (except social), 19 was beautiful to see but was hammpered by the ME. I don't know enough to talk about the ME and it's changes but it's been stated that one tweak could make something worse elsewhere. So how is it that there is apposingly 10 (assuming their tweaks to 1 or a few different ones) different ME's? 

I think people get mixed up with the word BETA aswell, people assume most of it should be done by the beta and have minor issues but seeing the ME in a certain state that isn't accepted by SOME gives off the impression the SI or testers aren't doing there jobs properly. IMO of course they do their jobs otherwise we wouldn't get a game but I do think the focus should be heavily on the ME (May or maynot be a primary point SI look to- forums seem to think heavily on the ME) just to shut most of us up and enjoy the game instead of attacking the staff (they've still done their job in the end). 

I also think the ME makes some attributes seem "useless" in certain occasions for example composure being high but 1v1's seem to hardly come off in FM20 so far. I could be completely wrong but i'd rather be wrong and get an official answer. Brings me to my last point, the feedback. Having the SI attacked at constantly doesn't do anyone justice but for those that are critical but accepting it maybe that the SI even with the mods give us updates or even an overview of what they're testing on the ME/ in other areas. I know recently there was that closed threat of the 10 ME's being tested- great idea- but having people that have been "good" in the forums or even a selection/sample of the thread (maybe first 100 to sign up kinda thing- having the likes of streamers so rashidi etc.) to put their point across maybe useful. Streamers more so cause they're usually tactical and find bits, rashidi is great at doing this and points his point across in the streams and no doubt he'll probably give feedback. It might be a bit much of yous to explain but just stating what's happened and what you're doing in quite specific in terms of players/ball movement/player movement etc. can be very useful and we can see where it's going. 

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I only buy the game once every 2 or 3 years and I get this years game cos I’m tired of fm18. I can absolutely say I’m happy I got this years game though and it is 100% going in the right direction. If this is beta then I can’t wait until the full release. 
It also helps to understand things from following a guy like bustthenet on YouTube. Learning and understanding things is a gateway to enjoying the game.

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My absolute biggest gripe, is that Morale has way to much influence on the result of a match. I get that if your players are happy they wont play as well. but seriously, If i have superior players and superior tactics. Morale should not be enough of an influence for me to lose the match. The other thing, is when I beat, the top half of the ladder so easily. yet I loose to the bottom 5 teams for no reason whatsoever. the game is so inconsistent that I really dont want to play anymore. And this is from someone who has put in over 500 hours on each version of  FM manager since 2012. Im a bit over the crap. its not worth my hours anymore

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