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Out of form??


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Hi guys, 

Looking for some advice. Been absolutely flying this season in League 2. Top of the league. Looking unbeatable. Fa Cup 3rd round comes... Away at Leicester. Lose (predictably) then BAM! Team in freefall... Losing 5 out of the last 7 games. Tactically I've not changed anything pre match. The only thing I change is sometimes try press higher and have a higher defensive block if chasing a game/getting dominated. 

Nothing I'm doing currently is working and it's starting to become very frustrating. Stopped creating many chances and a once reliable defense is now more like a pod of dolphins- all at sea! 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In short - you have no penetration. 

Thanks for the reply but not sure that's really that helpful. What can I do to have more penetration? 

Why would it take until January to start going on a terrible run when I've been winning 90% of my games the first half of the season? I know people will probably say that scouts have worked my team out or whatever but it feels unrealistic that teams from up the top with me and down near the bottom have all figured out to an extent where everyone can beat me now. 

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2 hours ago, dan_bre_1988 said:

Thanks for the reply but not sure that's really that helpful. What can I do to have more penetration? 

Why would it take until January to start going on a terrible run when I've been winning 90% of my games the first half of the season? I know people will probably say that scouts have worked my team out or whatever but it feels unrealistic that teams from up the top with me and down near the bottom have all figured out to an extent where everyone can beat me now. 

The AI doesn't "figure out" or learn your tactics, it's a myth.

Edited by Tiger666
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7 hours ago, dan_bre_1988 said:

know people will probably say that scouts have worked my team out or whatever but it feels unrealistic that teams from up the top with me and down near the bottom have all figured out to an extent where everyone can beat me now. 

The AI does not figure out your tactics. It never has. What it does do is adapt the way it will play you based on your form and position in the league. You are playing as Morecambe, who are predicted to come 21st (in my FM save anyway). So they are one of the weakest sides in the league. This means teams will be open and attack you at the start of the year. They see you as an easy win and go for it. Clearly you have set up well to exploit that initially. It is always easier to play against a side who is giving you space, than having to create and exploit it yourself. 

So you have a lot of success and are sitting at the top of the league. What does the AI do? It sure as heck does not see you as an easy win now. They treat you with more respect. Set up more conservatively against you. Tighten up and give you less space. That means you have to start to create yourself. The upshot is that your performances get worse, because your players are probably not great at creating chances. This is the same thing that happens for "second season syndrome", by the way.

Look at your tactic. You have zero attack duties, which means nobody is looking to score. Everyone is looking to build up. I can see how this works if you are scoring goals from quick transitions, with the AI pushing too many people forward. However you are going to struggle to break down sides who are playing in a more defensive way. Everyone is looking to create, and nobody is looking to finish, basically. The first question to ask is "who should be scoring my goals?", which should give you your attack duties. Then you have to work out who is providing the goals (which I think you already know). 

I mean your tactic is clearly sound in principle, because you did well. So I am not saying change everything completely here. You just need to add some oomph to break down sides. 

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Reading a league table is not unrealistic. And even the AI can do it. From a point of view what is happening is similar to the so-called difficulty levels. The AI was shocked because "he" was expected to play against a defensive team. Now he understood against whom he will play and acted in such a way as to strengthen his defense and to speculate the spaces in attack. This is a higher level of difficulty and requires a little more time. Because it must be checked what happens if certain duties, roles or instructions are changed.

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8 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

The AI does not figure out your tactics. It never has. What it does do is adapt the way it will play you based on your form and position in the league. You are playing as Morecambe, who are predicted to come 21st (in my FM save anyway). So they are one of the weakest sides in the league. This means teams will be open and attack you at the start of the year. They see you as an easy win and go for it. Clearly you have set up well to exploit that initially. It is always easier to play against a side who is giving you space, than having to create and exploit it yourself. 

So you have a lot of success and are sitting at the top of the league. What does the AI do? It sure as heck does not see you as an easy win now. They treat you with more respect. Set up more conservatively against you. Tighten up and give you less space. That means you have to start to create yourself. The upshot is that your performances get worse, because your players are probably not great at creating chances. This is the same thing that happens for "second season syndrome", by the way.

Look at your tactic. You have zero attack duties, which means nobody is looking to score. Everyone is looking to build up. I can see how this works if you are scoring goals from quick transitions, with the AI pushing too many people forward. However you are going to struggle to break down sides who are playing in a more defensive way. Everyone is looking to create, and nobody is looking to finish, basically. The first question to ask is "who should be scoring my goals?", which should give you your attack duties. Then you have to work out who is providing the goals (which I think you already know). 

I mean your tactic is clearly sound in principle, because you did well. So I am not saying change everything completely here. You just need to add some oomph to break down sides. 

I'm having similar issues, with the same formation, as the OP.

I tried putting my AMR and AML to "Attack" duty, but found that all that was happening was they were staying up the park beside the striker, which left my full backs being doubled up on, and my results ended up worse.

Would you recommend dropping them to ML/MR instead of AMs and keeping the attack duty?

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9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I tried putting my AMR and AML to "Attack" duty, but found that all that was happening was they were staying up the park beside the striker, which left my full backs being doubled up on, and my results ended up worse.

Or man mark the fullbacks, if you want them to drop deep. This is how I usually deal with a situation where my FB is being isolated and the guy in front is not tracking back. You need a player who can run up and down the wings all game though to do this well. Or you invite the pressure and then clear the ball from defence to attack quickly, to take advantage of the space the AI leaves when it advances it's fullbacks. Depends how much you trust your defence and goalkeeper to deal with the defending a man down on the wings. 

Or you can drop them back, but you have to bear in mind this will mean they take longer to get forward, so your striker will be isolated for longer when he gets the ball (if he gets it quickly). And you will likely not be able to do a very high press as easily with a flat 4141.

See what works for you. You may want to use all three approaches at different times, depending on who you are playing or the situation in the game. You do not have to be entirely rigid with your choices, see how the game is going and make your choice.

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Support players by title support the defenders, and, support the attackers.  Except you have no attackers to support.  You won't find many guides without a couple of attack roles.

I always think of guns and bullets.  Support roles are the guns that fire the bullets.

 

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9 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Or man mark the fullbacks, if you want them to drop deep. This is how I usually deal with a situation where my FB is being isolated and the guy in front is not tracking back. You need a player who can run up and down the wings all game though to do this well. Or you invite the pressure and then clear the ball from defence to attack quickly, to take advantage of the space the AI leaves when it advances it's fullbacks. Depends how much you trust your defence and goalkeeper to deal with the defending a man down on the wings. 

Or you can drop them back, but you have to bear in mind this will mean they take longer to get forward, so your striker will be isolated for longer when he gets the ball (if he gets it quickly). And you will likely not be able to do a very high press as easily with a flat 4141.

See what works for you. You may want to use all three approaches at different times, depending on who you are playing or the situation in the game. You do not have to be entirely rigid with your choices, see how the game is going and make your choice.

Thanks.

I play a low defensive line and a low press, and try and work my way back up the pitch. Might seem daft but my players aren't particularly quick but are technically sound so it seemed the best idea, and it sort of works. 

I go through runs of 9/10 games without a win, then win 4/5 in a row and I cant find a reason why (theres only 12 teams in the league).

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Thanks for the replies guys. I always thought under the hood, the scouts would scout and opposition would tailor tactics to counter yours. 

I'm still a bit confused why 1 defeat in ages has led to such a downturn in form. Maybe it is just that teams are now setting off slightly more defensive and exposing my lack of quality going forward. I will try some more attacking roles. The problem I have though is my striker tends to get isolated when on attack duty so idea behind support duties was to attack and defend as a team/one solid unit. I also don't want too many attack duties as I'm a limited team ability wise so don't think that would work out well at all. I'll try having my IF and ST on attack and possibly a cm... 

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