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akakbash

Individual training resets if player is used on another position

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Like last year, the individual training keeps resetting if you want to train a player for another position but play him somewhere else. I have Golubev (DM) and Krotov (ST) who are being trained at CM and RW. Their training settings have been automatically set to default position without a role after some match being played.
The file name is Omari West - Ufa.fm

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I don't want to barge in, I haven't purchased the game yet for this training issue, but the issue was reported for 2019 too and I am 100% I had the problem in FM 2018 with wingers, but not at the scale of 2019. 

2019 bug report for accessibility: 

 

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This is likely not the same issue as FM19.

Does your issue reproduce in the same way as documented here - 

 

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1 hour ago, Seb Wassell said:

This is likely not the same issue as FM19.

Does your issue reproduce in the same way as documented here - 

 

I use units section to set individual training, so probably it is not the same issue as in the thread you mention. The role training (like Inside Forward) resets to just position training (AMR) if i play the trained player at ST position. I had to set the individual training on this player 2 or 3 times already. (Sorry for my english)

one player without individual training.PNG

Edited by akakbash

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Or maybe it has something to do with position training report in inbox that resets the training schedule. But I don't know how can I reproduce it.

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We're looking into this, cheers all :thup:

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10 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

This is likely not the same issue as FM19.

Does your issue reproduce in the same way as documented here - 

 

This is a different issue to what you've linked. If it's the same as the bug in FM19 it is replicated as I described here:

Quote

 

Can we please get an update on this? It's easy to replicate.

Dele Alli was being trained as a BWM in central midfield.

Untitled-1.jpg

I played the next match with him in the AML position.

Untitled-2.jpg

After the match he's training the generic central midfield position.

Untitled-3.jpg

For anyone using players in different positions, this is infuriating. I either have to keep a screenshot of the training screen to remember what schedules I have everyone on, or reload an earlier save to remind myself.

 

 

Edited by Tiger666

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53 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

This is a different issue to what you've linked. If it's the same as the bug in FM19 it is replicated as I described here:

 

The player loses individual role but not position now and it happens less frequently.

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After some hours I think it is connected to the progression of player's position learning. For example, he was awkward then his knowing of position raised and the training would reset. But if a player knows position a good amount already (light green) it wont reset even if you play him somewhere else. The problem is consistent through several saves.

 

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I've uploaded the most recent case of this bug happening: Ivan Saenko - Ufa (v02) HORVAT BEFORE CHANGE.fm, Ivan Saenko - Ufa (v02) Horvat AMR.fm

My player Timo Horvat is learning the role of right inside forward.

After a week he loses his individual role but not position training.

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16 hours ago, Andrew James said:

Hi @akakbash

Does this issue reproduce consistently for you from that save game? I've still had no luck getting it to happen :( 

Yes, in every save game I've created. 

You need the player to learn or raise the level of understanding of a position, but he shouldn't have a good understanding of it already (I think at most 12-13 out of 20). When he progresses and his level of understanding increases by 1 point, the training resets. At least it seems so.

 

I've loaded two saves. Before and after the change on specific player (Timo Horvat)

Edited by akakbash

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Just now, Andrew James said:

Thanks @akakbash, and just to confirm - is this still happening for you on full release version of the game?

Yes. New save, old problem: ST was learning AML and the indidivual training reset when his position knowledge increased. Also the new position appeared in the line near his name. After that he never loses his AML training.

Edited by akakbash

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Came here to report this, but saw this thread open. My players training being reset seems to be happening to me far more frequently in FM20 than 19, but I  am retraining a number of my strikers to wings so the previously mentioned explanation makes sense.

 

The attached screenshot is of a player that came to me being able to play M/AM (R) but I wanted to retrain him to be a DR -Wingback. I have had to adjust his training 3 times so far as it keeps resetting. The same goes with some other players also being re-trained. Please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

20191120184648_1.jpg

 

PS - Using a custom skin and logopak, but nothing else was modified

Edited by Ether_mR

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Hi @Ether_mR

Thanks for your feedback - if you could upload a save for us from just before the training gets reset, that would be very helpful as this is proving a difficult one to reproduce internally.

@akakbash - by any chance are you also using a custom skin? Seems unlikely to be effecting this one but I know it's caused some issues elsewhere so worth considering.

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2 hours ago, Andrew James said:

 

@akakbash - by any chance are you also using a custom skin? Seems unlikely to be effecting this one but I know it's caused some issues elsewhere so worth considering.

I've started with default skin, then moved to custom. The problem exists either way.

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OK.... Phew... I have been saving/advancing daily to nail this one down but I THINK I have it for you. @Andrew James  @akakbash

 

15Aug2021 - Miroslav Lukac

This player has his training set to the below. I DID NOT touch anything in his training.

The next game this player played was on 22Aug2021. It was a u-19 game.


20191122150258_1.thumb.jpg.571540d89b5806366ed82522ea8e26f4.jpg

 

23Aug2021 - Miroslav Lukac

The below email is sent to me, and his training is reset. I do not know if the email caused the training to be reset, or the training was reset and caused the email to be sent to me

 

20191122150332_1.thumb.jpg.240174dad0828d2b9e4b209a422efba0.jpg

 

20191122150936_1.thumb.jpg.f9e342c9a7ed97251f1e68c3ee20156a.jpg

 

Miroslav Lukac played MCR for 79 minutes (the position he was being trained for) on 22Aug2021

20191122154552_1.thumb.jpg.5719c05d3bf5c640b0c7b7ed7b3970d7.jpg

 

Thus, the initial hypothesis of a player's increase in position knowledge leading to a reset of their training is still not eliminated. If you cannot get it to reproduce at that point in 1 out of 5 or 10 retries of that save game, then there must be something wrong with my specific game.

The savegame (Starts on 15Aug2021, before the game described above)

Matus Rejneyjavik - Matador Púchov-MiroslavLukac.fm

Please let me know if there is anything else I can help with. I think this is a great game and you guys do an amazing job smashing bugs so im honored to assist.

Edited by Ether_mR

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15 minutes ago, Ether_mR said:

OK.... Phew... I have been saving/advancing daily to nail this one down but I THINK I have it for you. @Andrew James  @akakbash

Quick one. How did you set up your responsibilities? The training ones.

Edited by godzilu

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I have all individual training responsibilities, assistant manager has team training

 

20191122153210_1.thumb.jpg.ef9ed395a2e82ffe67dd36dc399ff2b6.jpg

 

Early on in the save, I did not have many U-19 players so I originally set the head coach to lead the individual training because they were not high quality players and I was not interested in their development. I Then took control of individual players via the "Take control of this inidividual player" dialog box that prompts when you micromanage a player if another manager is leading individual training. Later on in the save, I fully took over u-19 individual training myself. I believe the issue was happening regardless.

 

Also, the issue is present regardless of whether the player is on the u-19 team or main team. I have had the issue frequently with first teamers who never played on the u-19 team and were not on the team until I had fully taken over all individual training.

Edited by Ether_mR

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Hi @Ether_mR

Thanks for the info and save game regarding this. Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to reproduce the issue here :(

I am beginning to suspect that using the custom skin must be a factor. There was an issue very similar to this in FM19, so where we've made a change to correct the bug, it's possible the custom skin hasn't accounted for this.

Could you do me a favour and check if this issue reproduces for you whilst using default skin?

 

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@Andrew James

 

Issue still present with vanilla skin. 

15Aug2021

20191125081858_1.thumb.jpg.8254d0ddad23c9a50353011a769f7403.jpg

22Aug2021

20191125083202_1.thumb.jpg.0f0b5e38c1ba30338892a0e68ff56a07.jpg

 

However, his position training changed before the u-19 game and with no email. Now I am confused myself, but nothing has changed.

 

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4 minutes ago, Ether_mR said:

Issue still present with vanilla skin. 

 

And is this reproducing every time you holiday forward a week from the save you uploaded?

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I don't holiday it, I play it normally (just hitting space bar and i physically managed the first team game as well but i did not make any subs I just let it go with key highlights on and the fastest possible simulation speed). Yes it is 100% reproducible on my end which adds to the frustration, its like when your car has an alarming noise and you bring it to the shop to get fixed and the mechanic doesn't hear anything. But I understand this is a weird one for some reason and I am committed to getting it resolved if its possible. 

 

 

Edited by Ether_mR

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Just reproduced it two more times again, this time both happened after the u-19 game. I have been scheduling my own u-19 games, you may need to schedule one in the savegame. In the original save game, my u-19 head coach scheduled the u-19 game. For some reason, he isn't doing it anymore (different skin? not sure what else would cause that)

 

First Try

20191125083139_1.thumb.jpg.eb7cf2aaea8dd62971f9df0343da152e.jpg

20191125083202_1.thumb.jpg.a1a895aaa4de0efc07d9b62472cce163.jpg

 

2nd try

22Aug2021

20191125091155_1.thumb.jpg.a1bc3c821bf91c64f5908db049633f84.jpg

20191125091200_1.thumb.jpg.be8a135ac38da2a1d928ab5bfee32853.jpg

Edited by Ether_mR

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@Ether_mR Thanks for the info, I've managed to get it to reproduce once, but if we could get a consistent set of Steps to Reproduce that would go a long way to getting this one fixed. Could you upload the save from which you've reproduced it? With the u19s game scheduled?

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@Andrew James

The only step to reproduce in the previously posted save game that you must perform is to schedule a u-19 game for 22Aug2021. I chose the only nearby team, FKS Nemsova. I was not sure when I posted the save game where the exact issue is, but I will try to create a more narrowed down save where it happens quickly. Hopefully I do not make it too narrow and eliminate data that could be used to solve the issue.

Edited by Ether_mR

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Yes, as suspected, as I was trying to make a more narrowed-down save, the issue happened after a match practice on 20Aug2021. This issue can be caused by practice or a game which makes it hard to make a more narrow save for you. It is a wide-ranging issue. 

 

20Aug2021

20191125100821_1.thumb.jpg.6c71c52a55e140311b48da1d8d54763e.jpg

20191125100828_1.thumb.jpg.7519df9031246259d4aa475a3c77d7fb.jpg

 

edit - it was after either shadow play or chance creation

 

edit 2 - if you use the posted save it happens so often for me that its easy to find over and over and over again with Miroslav Lukic.

Edited by Ether_mR

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@Andrew James

Sorry disregard last post, it was after a match practice, i was looking at first team training not u-19 training. The issue is caused by matches or match practices.

20191125101532_1.thumb.jpg.ac29e1a9d1c96626092a2855632bc508.jpg

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FYI - I am now in 2023 in this save as I am still actively playing it, and Miroslav Lukic (I kept him around even though he stinks as an experiment, it would be amazing to be this guy in real life) has not had any issues in his training being reset in well over a year. It seems to only hit players who are new in a position and going through the process of new position/role development.

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Thanks for all the info on this one - the issue is now logged and under review with our dev team.

Although, if anyone is to find a solid set of steps to reproduce from a save game, please still let us know!

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2 hours ago, Ether_mR said:

FYI - I am now in 2023 in this save as I am still actively playing it, and Miroslav Lukic (I kept him around even though he stinks as an experiment, it would be amazing to be this guy in real life) has not had any issues in his training being reset in well over a year. It seems to only hit players who are new in a position and going through the process of new position/role development.

Does it still happen if you move all team responsibilities to you?

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Seems to be connected with their position familiarity. I have Lo Celso training AMR "Raumdeuter (Attack)". As soon as his familiarity increases (going from makeshift to awkward) his position training changes to "AM (C) - Playing Position"

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@Andrew James Will we get an update in this thread when this is solved or should I follow the official patches? I haven't purchased FM20 yet because I quit playing FM19 because of a similar but more prevalent issue, and I really need to play this game :kriss:

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@Tiger666

I agree. I ran the save game that I posted above at least 15 times trying to pin point an exact event or email but I cannot. It seems to be caused by  match practices or matches as these fixtures improve a players positional or role knowledge. However, the variability between how well a player performs in practice or a game causes the moment that the training resets to be variable over time. It is important to note that the issue WILL happen when a player learns a completely new position, it is just a question of when. This is why I cannot make a set of steps to reproduce other than ‘turn game on, train player in new position.” Those are the steps to have it reproduce for me. 

 

 

Possibly the timing of the event or whether or not it happens at all could be tied to a players hidden ‘adaptability’ Rating. Other than that, I have no ideas 

Edited by Ether_mR

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On 30/11/2019 at 19:50, godzilu said:

Will we get an update in this thread

Yeah I will update this thread once we have this one properly nailed down and fixed.

Thought I'd give a quick explanation of what the issue is to help you spot it if it occurs and hopefully limit it's effect on your save games.

When players being training in a new position experience an increase to their positional rating in their training position, their training position will sometimes revert to their playing position. We still aren't sure what exactly determines whether or not this happens, and unfortunately it may be a case of fixing a few different examples to get this completely fixed - so new saves are always appreciated!

 

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Yeah this is happening to me at the moment with Eric Lamela, training him as a centre mid, he resets often when his familiarity increases.

Edited by Tiger666

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Well, I have to say that I am disappointed, after the 2018 and 2019 individual training issues, now in 2020 similar problems arise. Seems this ain't getting fixed soon, if ever, so good luck playing FM during the holidays. The same old story from 2019.

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Quick update on where we're up to with this.

It seems like the issue is caused by a post-match update sending new position rating up a notch in matches but not in training, which causes it to reset.

Due to the way this reproduces inconsistently, it's unfortunately been a particularly tricky one to get fixed, and also to check the success of any potential fixes.

Apologies for the inconvenience, we appreciate your patience on this one.

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http://prntscr.com/qbmhnx  - Just got it, hopefully this year it's getting fixed sooner rather than later. Please don't disappoint me again :D I hope it's fixed until Xmas, cause I won't have the time to play the game until then.

Small temporary fix for people having to deal with this problem constantly. Idea comes from @Ether_mR. Add to your Squad view Position/Role/Duty column so you can quickly see when a position has been reset, and to be able to quickly fix the issue.

http://prntscr.com/qbryfm

Edited by godzilu

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@Andrew James   Thank you for the update. I would like to also mention that I encounter it after match practices as well, not just after matches. Practice can also cause it. I think if a player is naturally great at learning a new position, it is easier to set off in this regard.
 

Thank you again for your time.

Edited by Ether_mR

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17 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

Still happening in 20.4 beta.

This Beta update was pretty much exclusively match engine changes. We're still working on fixes for this. Cheers. 

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@Tiger666 it should be yes. There were a few different ways this issue could be triggered so if you do still experience it then please let us know.

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