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Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread

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49 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

Into which folder do F12 screenshots go?

I can see that it's been captured in the bottom right and I have a screenshots folder, but nothing in it?

f12 is steam screanshot, this will go to steam folder, easiest to find fromt settings.

But  FM has now alt+s I think, that will save to the old screenshot folder for FM.

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I think so, sure a mod can confirm

 

5 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

Last year the full game released in 12:00 am ? 

The 2019 release announcement thread was created 19:26pm CET, November 1st.
So i assume it was around that time the full release happened.

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3 minutes ago, roykela said:

 

The 2019 release announcement thread was created 19:26pm CET, November 1st.
So i assume it was around that time the full release happened.

Dammit :D

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Just now, Johnny Ace said:

Dammit :D

Keep the hope alive.
Would be nice getting home from work, sit down and realise the game's just been released :D

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I'm so excited for release! :D All I need is the determination bug fix and I'm ready to play this game for hours on end like there's no tomorrow.

 

Just now, Johnny Ace said:

Dammit :D

Why dammit? Release last year was 2. nov so this means it was released several hours before. :)

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6 minutes ago, roykela said:

 

The 2019 release announcement thread was created 19:26pm CET, November 1st.
So i assume it was around that time the full release happened.

Wow really?

Thats great 

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3 minutes ago, sureup said:

I'm so excited for release! :D All I need is the determination bug fix and I'm ready to play this game for hours on end like there's no tomorrow.

 

Why dammit? Release last year was 2. nov so this means it was released several hours before. :)

Oh, sweet then :thup:

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Find it very strange how powerful touchline shouts are. When was the last time you saw an entire team visibly change their body language because of what the manager shouted on the sideline? 

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What are the chances to get another big update of the ME when the game is released?

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50/50, either it will or it won't :D sorry it was set up. Probably will have a few tweaks, Miles did tweet not long ago about the ME being wildly better, probably a good chance that its different. Going off the last 3 years where they've changed it then im inclined to beleive it will. 

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Just a note to all those reporting issues with penalties-

There are threads in the Bugs forum with this issue being reported, so please upload .pkms in that thread- the more examples they have, the better.  Thanks

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On 17/11/2019 at 00:43, kiwityke1983 said:

Not a bug. It's the laughable way the OG was scored that makes me laugh at the ME. It was essentially 4 or 5 Liverpool players trying to tackle each other and the ball ricocheting off him and in. I've seen this happen loads on the new update. It looks rediculous. 

That's pretty much how Ajax conceded the second goal against Tottenham - everyone kept going for the ball, rather than letting the goalkeeper have it, and the ball bounced between them all until it ended up with Lucas who slotted it in past all of them.

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My bet is that the game will be released at 7pm CET, tomorrow.

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Training section looks improved, I never really bother with training and leave it up to the assistant but the way it is now it's possible to make some tweaks.  Love FM so much, I like how immersive this can be now too from how you can mold players so you cab have more of an individual effect on their development.  Training combined with the medical center adds another element to the game, I'm aware both have been there for a while but they seem to work in better conjunction together now.  I love the community outreach and team bonding options too, fantastic.

The game isn't perfect but in many ways it just keeps getting better and better, over time I'll try and give more in depth feedback on things that can improve.  I sometimes get so into the games I don't come on the forums until it's time to hear news about the next game.  There's some improvements I think that could be made that could make the games even better.

While on that, a small thing but I think the player interaction as some mentioned at times can be improved, for instance praise, I think this should primarily help strengthen the bond between the player and coach and also improve morale, I think negative reactions to praise is unrealistic, praise or congratulations.  As others have said the worst that can happen should be that if you over praise the players constantly they become complacent in training or matches, but that should be only if it's overboard so people can't abuse it constantly for morale boosts.  I also think reactions in that should depend on the players personality's, a model pro for example would never slack on matter how much the manager praises them, somebody with an arrogance or that's lazy constantly getting praise, especially if it's not merited could get complacent.  There's a whole world to expand, great thing about the games, can keep growing and expanding constantly.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Svenc said:

This exactly. Hence SI may be quite understandably cautious as to when and where to improve it -- and they must have received tons of Feedback from their tacticsl community throughout the years. However, the game isn't primarily aimed at FM's tactical community. As argued, the reason why the AI on the Occasion scores from few to fewer shots it that it doesn't care About the shots piling up+1 on a spreadsheet come the final whistle blown. It cares About the scorelines -- and makes dynamic match Adjustments accordingly. Shutting up shop to make it harder to score from the kick-off if Content with a draw; Throwing bodies forward ten minutes from time when chasing an Opposition lead at the hopefully (:rolleyes:)calculated Risk of being countered; Making multiple Subs at HT and switching tactics to a plan B if Things don't seem to go to plan, and so on.  Football isn't science, but surely such simple stuff is Pretty well understood and acknowledged for.

 

Meistertrainerforum.de

Well indeed, and I sometimes feel like a bit of a d*ck for complaining about the ME as it's an impossible task. The days of text only commentary on CM were probably filled with instances of the same issues but because they were not visualised they were not as frustrating to experience. Sometimes I feel the visualisations of the commentary are not meant to look as easy as they do on screen. I know Aubamayang would be extremely unlikely to miss (or have saved) 16 straight one on one opportunities in real life, so to see that happen on screen makes it frustrating, even though I am doing well with Arsenal. And don't get me started with the wingers and full backs shooting from the byline :D

Edited by hazzabish

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10 hours ago, 91836 said:

Find it very strange how powerful touchline shouts are. When was the last time you saw an entire team visibly change their body language because of what the manager shouted on the sideline? 

 

Yes, and when was the last time that professionals were all left dispirited by a manager telling them to concentrate? Also, does anyone wish the old mentoring system was back? I knew I could get my low determination kid to have a good level of determination and ppm with the right guidance of a particular player. That dosn't seem as obvious and clear with the new (okay it's been here 2 years) system.

Edited by hazzabish

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Having spent ~25 hrs on the beta, here are my thoughts on FM20 and the direction you should go in generally:

FM20 feedback:
1. definitely the match engine requires some last minute tweaking, as long shots seem overpowered compared to 1-on-1s inside the box.
2. still not sure the pre-match briefing affects anything whatsoever, but I can't confirm it doesn't either.
3.  there seem to be some leftover graphical artifacts, although they seem to have diminished in numbers greatly after the pre-release patch. my videocard works without issues in general, but in FM i sometimes see a green rectangle in one frame every 10 mins give or take.
4. I think the player animations became more diverse, and that's a good thing, even though in the previous version of the beta that resulted in players using rabona way too often :), but im sure you can get the balance here just right.
5. the way you made player role system in the squad more detailed is amazing, it's always been a complaint of mine - the system was way too rigid to my liking. now the players seem to be completely satisfied with the time that i give them, as we can work together on their (and mine) expectations. well-done!
6. can't quite put my finger on it, but the UI during 3d matches seems less polished than usual ? weird feeling, im sure you didnt change it, but the radar, for instance, seems to scale wrong (strange proportions), and everything seems to snap to weird positions, even though before i remember being able to define where everything goes in a very flexible and precise way.

Now you probably keep hearing about this every year, but I'll still give my 2 cents about what you should do next:
1. the set pieces system as we have it now needs to go... it's too much of a hit and miss now, and it's not realistic at all. imagine having certain defensive corner settings, then your opponent overloads your box on an occasion and... in real life players aren't blind they'd notice it and adapt accordingly, to the best of their ability. But in this game you're basically entitled to AT LEAST one bad defensive corner before you can even do anything - your players will keep defending exactly like they were instructed beforehand. Now if to react, you have to do all this tedious work in the set piece constructor right in game, interrupt your game flow and spend time on thinking that may not even pay off.

now, out with the old, in with the new, if you ask me!
there are so many options to consider:
1) delegate making custom set pieces initially and on per-game basis to an assistant ? worth a shot
2) make the default setups more balanced and efficient, create variations for every mentality (or at least "safe" for defensive, "balanced" for cautious-balanced-positive, and "counter-attacking" for attacking mentalities).
3) make players more self-sufficient and adaptive in this regard.
4) maybe (probably a bad idea) add some quick popup, akin to the one with the penalty taker, that will prompt you to decide what kind of corner/set piece setup you want to use every single time?
5) in general simplify and streamline the set piece constructor interface! especially in-game. it needs WAY more drag'n'drop, it needs more flexibility.

2. Yeah, this is not happening because for obvious reasons your core player group either has low-end pcs or just isn't too tech-savvy, but... a completely new match engine and graphical engine is in order.
Even if you add it as a DLC or something, even for purely cosmetical purposes? I refuse to believe we can't achieve something like FIFA 2010-2014 in 2020. I know that the process of migrating to another engine can take forever, and really hope you've been doing it under the radar :(, because if you haven't started, then we're bound to see exactly the same game for the next 3-4 iterations.

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@duesouth I echo your sentiments almost entirely.

I don't see this current ME as any better than the last one. Players shooting from angles that just smack of pure desperation, virtually on the byline when there is an obvious better option in the middle - as with you, I'm playing a team near the top level and you would expect much better decision making. Goals from corners have been quite high for and against me, as have penalties (yes, could be tactics but it appears I'm not exclusive to these issues). Bookings are also high but that is probably down to my style of play.

Throw ins are also a bug-bear - opp players being left completely unmarked in advanced positions, full backs backing away from attacking wingers or reacting too slowly to close down appropriately, allowing the winger to blast forward for a 1-on-1.

Enjoying everything else about the game - club vision is great and I feel there is more realism outside of the matchday, but for me, the ME is a disappointment so far.

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16 minutes ago, duesouth said:

So, in summary, I would say:

Behaviour of wide attacking players is still a concern for me;

 

I'm also having issues with the AMR and AML players not really playing well. It's annoying at Arsenal because that's where all the youth talent is.

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10 hours ago, 91836 said:

Find it very strange how powerful touchline shouts are. When was the last time you saw an entire team visibly change their body language because of what the manager shouted on the sideline? 

I find it a feature that has never really worked and needs to be toned down. The only consolation is that IA managers have the same issues.

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37 minutes ago, duesouth said:

 

Goals conceded from corners are a problem - you ship more when you are in poor form/morale low - so when the ME decides you are going to lose/concede, it's too heavily

How often do you instruct your team to emphasize on set-piece defending in training?  

Do you take advantage of the Set Piece Analysis (bottom right of photo) from the pre-match analysis report? Sometimes there is loads of information there on an upcoming opponent. For example, it will say if if they tend to send men to the far post or near post, etc. Lots of valuable tid-bits. 

And with the information above, you can use it to create a great set-piece tactic tailored for this opponent. The set-piece creator is a very powerful tool.

I do all of the above and I rarely give up goals from corners. I hope SI doesn't make it harder to score from set-pieces.

image.thumb.png.1aa97706190ae3bcb688f3a8d1082cb9.png

Edited by rain94

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11 minutes ago, duesouth said:

I also found it hard to get my striker scoring - although I wouldn't say Ajax have top options at the position, so not the best save to test.

One of my main reasons my 2nd season (& most likely the save) fizzled out. The patch last week hit for me during pre-season after the first season. I posted his figures but that first season Lewandowski got something like 39 in 42, so far second season he's on 2 in 15, I tried all I could to get him back on track but it was the wide men getting the goals, all 4 of them are massively outscoring him while Rob's not getting the chances he had in season 1. Easy to say team's adapted, it's your tactics & the like but Paderborn didn't sign Thiago Silva & Marquinhos pre-season & teams parked the bus in that first season too

This is why I try a top team in beta, as having sub standard players can mask things & you can put poor play down to the attributes

Corners I noticed during the first few games, I shipped a few & scored a few, I conceded 2 of them in the first league game after conceded 4 goals all of the previous season but that seemed to settle down after a bit  

Refs were ruthless with bookings in those games too, at one point in a match there had been 4 fouls & 4 yellows dished out in the opening 10 minutes  but again, that seemed to clam down a bit  

I thought the wide players shooting from bad angles had sorted itself, I have seen it a few times but no where near as much as before. You usually get the commentary line of "that would have been some goal!" when the ball's ploughed into the side netting as if the ME thinks that where he shot from was a legitimate chance 

 

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27 minutes ago, Kingstontom88 said:

@duesouth I echo your sentiments almost entirely.

I don't see this current ME as any better than the last one. Players shooting from angles that just smack of pure desperation, virtually on the byline when there is an obvious better option in the middle - as with you, I'm playing a team near the top level and you would expect much better decision making. Goals from corners have been quite high for and against me, as have penalties (yes, could be tactics but it appears I'm not exclusive to these issues). Bookings are also high but that is probably down to my style of play.

Throw ins are also a bug-bear - opp players being left completely unmarked in advanced positions, full backs backing away from attacking wingers or reacting too slowly to close down appropriately, allowing the winger to blast forward for a 1-on-1.

Enjoying everything else about the game - club vision is great and I feel there is more realism outside of the matchday, but for me, the ME is a disappointment so far.

You've summarised all the issues I'm seeing quite nicely. The defending is especially badly represented - constant standing off even with a 'get stuck in' instruction.

Not game breaking (yet), but may have to switch to 2D again to enjoy it eventually.

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2 minutes ago, rain94 said:

How often do you instruct your team to emphasize on set-piece defending in training?  

Do you take advantage of the Set Piece Analysis (bottom right of photo) from the pre-match analysis report? Sometimes there is loads of information there on an upcoming opponent. For example, it will say if if they tend to send men to the far post or near post, etc. Lots of valuable tid-bits. 

And with the information above, you can use it to create a great set-piece tactic tailored for this opponent. The set-piece creator is a very powerful tool.

I do all of the above and I rarely give up goals from corners. I hope SI doesn't make it harder to score from set-pieces.

image.thumb.png.1aa97706190ae3bcb688f3a8d1082cb9.png

With Dalum - a part-time club - you have 4 training slots per week - and if you are playing midweek as well you might get 2 or even none.  So, hard to spend 25% of your training every week on defending corners - but I did every other week.  I'm also not sure there were the right staff to get the analysis report.

Have to admit with Ajax, probably didn't spend enough time on that - was playing faster than I usually do to test the beta - but I'll slow down tonight and see what happens.

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32 minutes ago, Kingstontom88 said:

@duesouth I echo your sentiments almost entirely.

I don't see this current ME as any better than the last one. Players shooting from angles that just smack of pure desperation, virtually on the byline when there is an obvious better option in the middle - as with you, I'm playing a team near the top level and you would expect much better decision making. Goals from corners have been quite high for and against me, as have penalties (yes, could be tactics but it appears I'm not exclusive to these issues). Bookings are also high but that is probably down to my style of play.

Throw ins are also a bug-bear - opp players being left completely unmarked in advanced positions, full backs backing away from attacking wingers or reacting too slowly to close down appropriately, allowing the winger to blast forward for a 1-on-1.

Enjoying everything else about the game - club vision is great and I feel there is more realism outside of the matchday, but for me, the ME is a disappointment so far.

I especially agree with throw-ins; the set piece creator simply does not allow for sufficient, intuitive routines whether attacking or defending.

Edited by autohoratio

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1 minute ago, rain94 said:

Just had a nice tight angle goal from my poacher.

lafc13.gif

Nice finish!

Really loving the keeper animations. Shot through a crowd, he does well to get down low.

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34 minutes ago, duesouth said:

With Dalum - a part-time club - you have 4 training slots per week - and if you are playing midweek as well you might get 2 or even none.  So, hard to spend 25% of your training every week on defending corners - but I did every other week.  I'm also not sure there were the right staff to get the analysis report.

Have to admit with Ajax, probably didn't spend enough time on that - was playing faster than I usually do to test the beta - but I'll slow down tonight and see what happens.

Let me know how it goes. Hit me up on PM if you need some tips with the set-piece creator. I've been using it for years. Here's what I mean by the analysis on set pieces... 

image.png

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

One of my main reasons my 2nd season (& most likely the save) fizzled out. The patch last week hit for me during pre-season after the first season. I posted his figures but that first season Lewandowski got something like 39 in 42, so far second season he's on 2 in 15, I tried all I could to get him back on track but it was the wide men getting the goals, all 4 of them are massively outscoring him while Rob's not getting the chances he had in season 1. Easy to say team's adapted, it's your tactics & the like but Paderborn didn't sign Thiago Silva & Marquinhos pre-season & teams parked the bus in that first season too

This is why I try a top team in beta, as having sub standard players can mask things & you can put poor play down to the attributes

Corners I noticed during the first few games, I shipped a few & scored a few, I conceded 2 of them in the first league game after conceded 4 goals all of the previous season but that seemed to settle down after a bit  

Refs were ruthless with bookings in those games too, at one point in a match there had been 4 fouls & 4 yellows dished out in the opening 10 minutes  but again, that seemed to clam down a bit  

I thought the wide players shooting from bad angles had sorted itself, I have seen it a few times but no where near as much as before. You usually get the commentary line of "that would have been some goal!" when the ball's ploughed into the side netting as if the ME thinks that where he shot from was a legitimate chance 

 

I remember your post,

It was an inspiration for my tactics and as you said, it no longer works as well.

I think it has to do with the mentality of your tactic. I used to played with "Attacking" or "Positive" tactics, but now that I play with "Cautious" with the new patch. My striker has more opportunities thanks to the Midfielders who now play a lot of key passes (At least 10 per games)

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ailleurs said:

I remember your post,

It was an inspiration for my tactics and as you said, it no longer works as well.

I think it has to do with the mentality of your tactic. I used to played with "Attacking" or "Positive" tactics, but now that I play with "Cautious" with the new patch. My striker has more opportunities thanks to the Midfielders who now play a lot of key passes (At least 10 per games)

Cool, hope you enjoyed it while it lasted :thup:

It's pretty much the same as what I used in FM19 & am using in FM15 but yeah, it went kaputt in FM20

I did try Balanced but never went any further down the mentality ladder, worth a go, thanks  

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1 hour ago, rain94 said:

The AI SC Heerenveen just scored a beaut of a goal. 

lafc15.gif

goal.jpg

That's the sort of pattern of play I see alot of, hence it's my wide men bagging the goals 

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8 minutes ago, Nonlondoner said:

For those having issues with wingers. "Inverted Winger". It's the future. Trust me.

 Works well with overlapping wing-backs

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1 minute ago, Lempicka said:

 Works well with overlapping wing-backs

Indeed it does. Got my RB as an WB-A with an IW-S in the AMR position ahead of him, works a charm. 

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3 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

How do IWs differ from IFs?

Mainly movement, I would imagine. The Inside Forward will move towards the box and will pair up with your forwards. The IW will move towards the same area as an AMC.

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2 hours ago, rain94 said:

The AI SC Heerenveen just scored a beaut of a goal. 

lafc15.gif

goal.jpg

Lol why are almost all the players in yellow on the right side of the pitch?

Edited by Armistice

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Penalties. Lots of them. Too many of them.

 

dsfdfd.jpg

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1 minute ago, pats said:

Penalties. Lots of them. Too many of them.

 

dsfdfd.jpg

Please upload the .pkm of this match in one of the "too many penalties" threads in the ME section of the Bugs forum as this is way too many.

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A question for those more knowledgeable than I, how much of a concern is this penalty issue being present in the game just 24 hours before release? 

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1 hour ago, martplfc1 said:

How do IWs differ from IFs?

Yes, pretty much what's been said. It provides space for wing- backs plus with an inverted winger near the penalty area they can pressure opposition defenders sooner if the attack breaks down.  I got Jadon Sancho and also have Martinelli, Saka and Smith-Rowe  at Arsenal who are all superb in that position on the left (Saka and Sancho also on the right).  One caveat, you need an attacking wing or full back on the overlap or you end up with no-one out wide in attack. Gen Press works with this very well.

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Will try this, as overlapping wing backs with inside forwards doesnt seem very effective. They just regularly run to the byline, stop, then either get tackled or win a corner.

That said, changing them to attacking full backs seems an improvement.

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5 hours ago, Ras said:

While on that, a small thing but I think the player interaction as some mentioned at times can be improved, for instance praise, I think this should primarily help strengthen the bond between the player and coach and also improve morale, I think negative reactions to praise is unrealistic, praise or congratulations.  As others have said the worst that can happen should be that if you over praise the players constantly they become complacent in training or matches, but that should be only if it's overboard so people can't abuse it constantly for morale boosts.  I also think reactions in that should depend on the players personality's, a model pro for example would never slack on matter how much the manager praises them, somebody with an arrogance or that's lazy constantly getting praise, especially if it's not merited could get complacent.  There's a whole world to expand, great thing about the games, can keep growing and expanding constantly.

This is all included in the game :thup:

We are a little tighter on unnecessary/excessive praise than you suggest, for realism and gameplay reasons, but otherwise this all occurs, including personality dictating how a player responds and positive interactions building relationships.

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4 hours ago, hazzabish said:

Also, does anyone wish the old mentoring system was back? I knew I could get my low determination kid to have a good level of determination and ppm with the right guidance of a particular player. That dosn't seem as obvious and clear with the new (okay it's been here 2 years) system.

This is in fact one of the main reasons we moved away from the old system. Aside from it being unrealistic, as recommended to us by a real-life manager, it was far too easy to game the system and turn any youngster into a model professional.

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9 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

This is all included in the game :thup:

We are a little tighter on unnecessary/excessive praise than you suggest, for realism and gameplay reasons, but otherwise this all occurs, including personality dictating how a player responds and positive interactions building relationships.

I don't see how this is necessarily realistic, though. The interaction system is far too limited and lacks the ability to say e.g. "You were great at X, Y and Z last match but I was disappointed with your A, B, and C" or "In the last match, you improved on X from previous games, but I still need to see you do even better". It's as if the game wants you to never speak to your players...

Edited by autohoratio

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