Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, armbi said:

Yeah it's not a mystery. Everything is very good about this game - promoting, announcing small improvements as big features, everything but match 3D overall. Ok - graphics is acceptable. But when you see your side defenders score more goals than the others, despite your tactics playing in 80% is about passing from wing to wing, it's really dissapointing. Every match looks the same, no matter you play Barca, Juve or Everton. And all of this just from watching beta streams on Youtube...

It's high time to say - I give a break - hopefully to FM 2021, but as far as I can see from evolution of the game maybe longer.

I just admire those who find this game playable...

Theres a post, literally the one before yours, that shows a central goal.

[Brother Ben]

6 hours ago, Iwabik said:

I'm loving this ME so far. Had a slight problem with long balls but it seems that changing one of my defender to cover role helped massively. 

 

Through balls are still an issue tho, e.g. here Gomes had easy pass to Kean but instead he passed to Richarlison on the left wing (7).

Okay here's  my take on this.

If i'm Gomes in this scenario there's no way i'm passing to Keane.  Hes the wrong side of the defender and from Gomes perspective there is no way for him to know that the number 5 is playing him onside so the pass out wide is the better option in my opinion

[Purple]

1 hour ago, Brother Ben said:

Okay here's  my take on this.

If i'm Gomes in this scenario there's no way i'm passing to Keane.  Hes the wrong side of the defender and from Gomes perspective there is no way for him to know that the number 5 is playing him onside so the pass out wide is the better option in my opinion

Even though the pass out wide is not the better option, I must say job well done to the entire team behind this remarkable version of the game. The collyer brothers, miles and the entire coding team should have statues built outside of their respective clubs. I bow down to their tactical knowledge and dedication to the sport. 

[Delvi]

I think that if we want the AI teams playing as the counterparts IRL, we should:

1) define how the teams are actually playing IRL;

2) undestand if it's possible to translate this style of playing with FM, using a certain tactic;

3) if the point 2) is working, then we need to understand how to adjust the settings in the editor for the managers, in order to obtain the desidered result.

IMHO the ME is improving year after year and will improve again in the future (for instance with collisions), however it's extremely difficult to translate different phylosophies and playing styles in FM and to have them BALANCED.

This is a GAME and in order to be entertaining, the gameplay has to be the focus. To preserve the experience, there should not be playing styles overpowered, but it should be possible to obtain great results with tiki taka, gegenpressing, park the bus and so on. There shouldn't be a tactic better than others, but a tactic which requires certain players and instructions to work well, in other words a fine tuning required to make the tactic working for your own team. 

I suggest a starting point to SI: take 3-4 teams with distinct styles IRL and understand how to replicate the way they play in FM (which instructions are needed, which positions in possess, no possess, positive and negative transitions and so on, the way they do pressing...) and see if it's possible to have it coded and to give the options to the human player to create (if wanted) this tactic. Then, the editor should be changed, in order to be able to provide these instructions also to the AI managers, only in this way we will have the feeling to play against the Liverpool of Klopp, the City of Guardiola and so on...

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Delvi

[MBarbaric]

52 minuti fa, Brother Ben ha scritto:

Okay here's  my take on this.

If i'm Gomes in this scenario there's no way i'm passing to Keane.  Hes the wrong side of the defender and from Gomes perspective there is no way for him to know that the number 5 is playing him onside so the pass out wide is the better option in my opinion

stick to the bible, brother

 

[Purple]

9 minutes ago, Delvi said:

I think that if we want the AI teams playing as the counterparts IRL, we should:

1) define how the teams are actually playing IRL;

2) undestand if it's possible to translate this style of playing with FM, using a certain tactic and instructions;

3) if the point 2) is working, then we need to understand how to adjust the settings in the editor for the managers, in order to obtain the desidered result.

IMHO the ME is improving year after year and will improve again in the future (for instance with collisions), however is extremely difficult to translate different phylosophies and styles of playing and having them BALANCED.

This is a GAME and in order to be entertaining, the gameplay has to be the focus. To preserve the experience, there should not be playing styles overpowered, but it should be possible to obtain great results with tiki taka, gegenpressing, park the bus and so on. There shouldn't be a tactic better than others, but a tactic which requires certain players and instructions, in other words a fine tuning. 

I suggest a starting point to SI: take 3-4 teams with distinct styles IRL and understand how to replicate the way they play in FM (which instructions are needed, which positions in possess, no possess, positive and negative transitions and so on, the way they do pressing...) and see if it's possible to have it coded and to give the options to the human player and to the AI managers in the db.

 

I agree with what you've said regarding balance. Yes there should be always a tactic and formations to counter act another system. Not one over powered system. I believe that fm 2018 me was quite good in this regard. I have had success using various styles of play. I'm just so happy that it seems like there are vast quality of life improvements from fm 2019.

[Britrock]

36 games into my current season and I am absolutely loving this version of the ME. The variety of the highlights and the goals is brilliant and I am thoroughly enjoying playing.

The only minor annoyance is the number of penalties - I've conceded 10 so far this season while the next worst team is on 7. It's not a huge jump between me and the AI, but I'm sure I've saved a few and they've missed a couple of others as well on top of those 10 so there are quite a few popping up. I've only taken 5 myself and scored 4 of those so there's been at least 15 penalties in 36 games, almost 1 every other game. It's by no means gamebreaking, just a minor gripe.

P.S. Why is penalties scored not on the Team Detailed stats page for the competition while Penalties Conceded is?

[It's Baggio]

The ME is much better. Only gripe is that there is still far too many nonsense shots from wide areas, especially from full backs.

[sporadicsmiles]

1 hour ago, armbi said:

And all of this just from watching beta streams on Youtube...

Why are you posting feedback on a game you have not even played? That is counter productive to this thread. You are not in a position to judge the game, as you have not played it..

45 minutes ago, Purple said:

Even though the pass out wide is not the better option,

It is the only pass Gomes can make if he is right footed. Look at his position, the way he is facing and moving. Or flag it as a bug with evidence if you do not agree.

 

[Brother Ben]

4 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

stick to the bible, brother

 

I stand by my assessment, the striker's gone early. Much like the Lord he moves in mysterious ways 😉

[Dagenham_Dave]

10 minutes ago, Britrock said:

 

P.S. Why is penalties scored not on the Team Detailed stats page for the competition while Penalties Conceded is?

It is, it's in a sortable column under 'Penalties Taken' near the top of the options, under 'average possession' 

[Dagenham_Dave]

Here, in fact...

.

[Brother Ben]

1 hour ago, Purple said:

Even though the pass out wide is not the better option, I must say job well done to the entire team behind this remarkable version of the game. The collyer brothers, miles and the entire coding team should have statues built outside of their respective clubs. I bow down to their tactical knowledge and dedication to the sport. I bet they have big c***k* too. 

Very constructive, what a well thought out and measured response. Good for you

Edited November 16, 2019 by Brother Ben

[Dalglish]

Just had a penalty. Player strikes the ball, it hits the post, rebounds back to him and he just stands there until smothered by three defenders.

Let's just say, he won't be taking anymore spot kicks.

 

[warlock]

7 minutes ago, Dalglish said:

Player strikes the ball, it hits the post, rebounds back to him and he just stands there

Because he's not allowed to be the first to touch it.

[Dalglish]

5 minutes ago, warlock said:

Because he's not allowed to be the first to touch it.

Forgot about that - feel a bit silly now 

[warlock]

1 minute ago, Dalglish said:

feel a bit silly now 

No worries - easy to forget in the heat of the moment 

[savagepenguin]

Actually had a couple of nice moments early on in the beta playing a 4-2-3-1  with Arsenal. 

 

 

Central play definitely is possible! Though it seems that a majority of the time in my matches, the path of least resistance is on the wing which usually leads to a lot of fullback/wingback overlaps. Oddly enough, I've yet to see any truly decent goals since the match engine tweaks dropped the other day (despite it feeling much more fluid than it was previously). Still...the conversion rate feels much better and I'm seeing far less Xavi-esque, 70 yard defence splitting passes so this seems to be slowly moving in the right direction.

[超级足球狂热迷]

The player gets up and runs with the ball as soon as he tackles

There's still this movement

The preview video said to delete this action?

[anagain]

I've played a few matches since the November 13th update and I have to say SI have done wonders with the match engine. My team are playing much better football. 

Before the patch I was trying to play a short passing penetrating 4-1-2-3 formation with IFs or attacking wingers supporting a F9. What I saw more than any other ball was a cross field pass from one wing to another. Since the patch players build up nicely with inctricate balls to open up space for wingers or WBs.

It's such nice believable football now.

 

I am noticing sound issues though. I've bugged them, but wanted to mention it here because I do wonder if it is my end and maybe someone might say something that leads me to why it happens, or I'll see someone say they've noticed it and I can rule out it being at my end.

Whenever I make tactical changes, substitutions or shouts the game sound will disrupt whenever the change takes place. It's almost as if the match sound file resets, as if it's a song being reset to the start.

The only reason I suggest it might be my end is because in some games I play I do notice sound disturbances. I've wondered if it were my speakers. I've updated drivers, so I'll see if that fixes anything.

[dangngo6]

still think we need to improve the one on one sisuation. Its look horrible honestly, that my only complain at this point of ME, everything else just on point

[bigmattb28]

7 hours ago, armbi said:

But when you see your side defenders score more goals than the others,

Out of Newcastle's 10 goal scorers in the league this season, 6 are defenders, so not too unlike FM 20 

[Britrock]

8 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Here, in fact...

.

Cheers, I was looking under the attacking section around the goals bit so I didn't see it there

[Feriboy2]

3 hours ago, anagain said:

I am noticing sound issues though. I've bugged them, but wanted to mention it here because I do wonder if it is my end and maybe someone might say something that leads me to why it happens, or I'll see someone say they've noticed it and I can rule out it being at my end.

Whenever I make tactical changes, substitutions or shouts the game sound will disrupt whenever the change takes place. It's almost as if the match sound file resets, as if it's a song being reset to the start.

The only reason I suggest it might be my end is because in some games I play I do notice sound disturbances. I've wondered if it were my speakers. I've updated drivers, so I'll see if that fixes anything.

I have the same sound issues too since the update, i thought it's just me  glad there is at least two of us

[anagain]

17 minutes ago, Feriboy2 said:

I have the same sound issues too since the update, i thought it's just me  glad there is at least two of us

Likewise, it's good to know it's not just me. Also that it's not only my system. 

Do you have onboard sound or a dedicated soundcard? It might have nothing to do with it, but if it were a system thing then any extra information would help. 

Tbh, the fact that it seems to reset the match crowd sounds suggests to me it's an issue with the game. 

I did update the drivers for my built in sound via control panel. It made the disruption not quite so startling, but there is still a noticeable stopping and restarting of the match sounds still.

[glosoli]

I stopped playing beta yesterday. The amount of penalty kicks that I'm having is bizarre. I don't like to win games constantly with PKs. I sent a PKM to SI where I won 5 PKs in the same match. Opponents make too many fauls. I hope it gets fixed by the launch. It's something minor but breaks the immersion for me. Other than that, game is much more better than FM19 in almost every aspect.

[kiwityke1983]

Went back to tactical basics and stripped the Ti's right back to zero, just adding pressing intensity and defensive/pressing lines and using roles to get the kind of football I want in an attempt to enjoy this ME. 

It's kind of worked. It's better but still far too many goals are from set pieces, 25 yard worldies or wierd defensive errors. 

In my Euro Cup game against CSKA our 3rd goal was an egregious example of everything wrong with this ME. Fullback has a great opportunity to cross to my unmarked striker, instead attempts to hit the cross to the back post. Ball hits a defender in the face, bounces to my still unmarked striker 3 yards out centre of the goal who hits the post...then reacts the fastest and pokes it into the now empty goal from 1 yard out. It was a comedy of errors. 

I've started to see some lovely through balls through the middle from my playmaker/AI teams occassionally. Not that this helps because strikers still seem incapable of hitting a barn door one on one. Normally only scoring one on the rebound from their own initial shots. (I'd say 1 in 10 go in clean for both AI and me). I'm more surprised in fact when they do result in goals than don't. 

And that's what I find so frustrating about this ME. Beautiful football is actually rarely rewarded with a goal. But bizarre deflections, defensive errors, goalmouth scrambles set pieces and 25 yard worldies constantly result in goals. 

There's a great ME in here somewhere but for me this isn't it as yet. It's more frustrating than exhilarating even when mainly winning. 

[Bakiano]

I played about 6-7 games with thid new update and got only one penalty which is scored and the opponents didnt get any one. Also there are yellow cards but not so much.

 

I have only problem with crossing from byline, player can get to the ball to cross freely, but he just stops it and the opponent just tackle the ball..

 

And one thing looks suspicious to me, when is a corner kick and me or AI cross the ball at the near post, player who defends the goal can kick it with his head but he just lets it go. 

[FrazT]

17 minutes ago, glosoli said:

I stopped playing beta yesterday. The amount of penalty kicks that I'm having is bizarre. I don't like to win games constantly with PKs. I sent a PKM to SI where I won 5 PKs in the same match. Opponents make too many fauls. I hope it gets fixed by the launch. It's something minor but breaks the immersion for me. Other than that, game is much more better than FM19 in almost every aspect.

I only see a screen shot and don't see a pkm uploaded in the bugs forum, so please do this as this will help to get any issue investigated

[Viking]

Is the Overall Physical Condition/Match Shapness column broken on the Squad screen? I can see the OPC and the circle, but I can't get it to acutally show the Match shapness, no matter how I re-arrange or resize the columns. Not even auto size makes it work.

Also, journalists doesn't seem to understand the concept of registrating players. They keep asking me why I don't play Cabaye, despite the fact he is not and cannot be registrated for another three months. No way for me to tell the idiots that is the case either.

[thejay]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb RandomGuy.:

Hired a Technical Director to make all staff signings (I do Assistant Manager, Head Scout, and Technical Director, he does the rest).

The top two appearance holders in my clubs history have retired in my save so far, and both times hes hired them as youth coaches straight after without my input.

I like it.

What kind of staff does he sign? Competent staff or random attributes 

[kiwityke1983]

4 minutes ago, thejay said:

What kind of staff does he sign? Competent staff or random attributes 

Mine often doesn't sign anyone. Then I end up having to do it myself. He did however bring back a club legend as a goalkeeping coach. 

[wazza]

On 31/10/2019 at 16:42, Seb Wassell said:

Data and competition & rulegroup issues mostly. ME and gameplay will mostly be save compatible.

 

With Neil stating that the data is now locked except from possibly the odd manager change if its deemed necessary are the competition and rulegroup issues now upto date and won't be changed again for release

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 hours ago, Britrock said:

Cheers, I was looking under the attacking section around the goals bit so I didn't see it there

Aye, it should really be next to the penalties conceded bit. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, Viking said:

Is the Overall Physical Condition/Match Shapness column broken on the Squad screen? I can see the OPC and the circle, but I can't get it to acutally show the Match shapness, no matter how I re-arrange or resize the columns. Not even auto size makes it work.

 

Expand that part of the screen and it'll be there. If you've got a lot of stuff on your squad screen, autosizing will generally reduce them to the circles, but you should be able to manually adjust. Works for me. 

[Fritz13]

2 QQs

1. Has there been a change in how a player learns a new position?

i used to have to train he player in addition to playing him but now playing him seem to work much quicker and he goes from nothing to orange for that new position after 3-3 games.

 

2. After launch on the 19th will the in-game editor work for beta saves or just new ones?

[pats]

2 hours ago, glosoli said:

I stopped playing beta yesterday. The amount of penalty kicks that I'm having is bizarre. I don't like to win games constantly with PKs. I sent a PKM to SI where I won 5 PKs in the same match. Opponents make too many fauls. I hope it gets fixed by the launch. It's something minor but breaks the immersion for me. Other than that, game is much more better than FM19 in almost every aspect.

8 penalties in a game. Screenshot attached.

 

[Vali184]

2 minutes ago, pats said:

8 penalties in a game. Screenshot attached.

 

please report it in the bugs forum.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, pats said:

8 penalties in a game. Screenshot attached.

 

That's wild, although it is a pre-season friendly against (presumably) really weak opposition, therefore you were probably camped in their penalty box for most of the game. However, there really shouldn't be that amount of PKs in one game. I would report that in the bugs forum if you haven't done so already. 

[pats]

7 penalties in a match. Screenshot attached.

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

In my league, the team with the most penalties taken through 31 matches so far have had ten penalties. In total. 

My team have had TWO all season (missed one of them!) . I'd love to see us getting more 

[pats]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's wild, although it is a pre-season friendly against (presumably) really weak opposition, therefore you were probably camped in their penalty box for most of the game. However, there really shouldn't be that amount of PKs in one game. I would report that in the bugs forum if you haven't done so already. 

There are many PKMs regarding penalty issue already posted by users in the bugs forums. Those two screenshots aren't mine but I'll see if I can upload my PKMs.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I wonder what's causing this, as it's not happening  in my game at all. Have you checked your league stats? Are all teams experiencing this or is it just you? I know the two screenies above aren't yours, but both examples show lots of penalties for the human controlled sides (presumably) and none for the AI team. Weird. Possibly linked to a tactical set up. 

[pats]

2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I wonder what's causing this, as it's not happening  in my game at all. Have you checked your league stats? Are all teams experiencing this or is it just you? I know the two screenies above aren't yours, but both examples show lots of penalties for the human controlled sides (presumably) and none for the AI team. Weird. Possibly linked to a tactical set up. 

It could be linked to the tactical setup. In one of my own saves, I have been getting mostly against me. The setup was standard and cautious mentalities, normal pressing intesity and normal tackling instructions. So may be lower mentalities are getting penalised more. I'll continue to analyse.

[Svenc]

10 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I wonder what's causing this, as it's not happening  in my game at all. 

Could be tactical combinations between both sides. However, it also could  be connected to something that seems to be generally threated as an afterthought, even by SI: ref Attributes.

They used to scale unrealistically with their Performances before. As in: Refs with low discipline Ratings would barely Hand out a booking per match. Whilst refs with high Ratings averaged (!) 5-7 (!) bookings per match. Not sure what the status quo is, haven't tested in a while. Still, this is not made up, you could reproduce this every time (full Detail Simulation). Neither of this is/was realistic, as there may be a difference between refs in actual football. But in a league, the bookings are actually fairly consistent -- like the Long-term shot conversions with Forwards, kinda. I raised it back then, and wasn't sure SI were at all Aware of it.

As a consequence, whilst there's much talk About nerfing Morata's finishing Attributes from 16 to 11 within the space of a single release (SPOILER: that guy will still gore plenty Goals for as Long as he keeps popping into space   ); ref Attributes are hardly ever talked About. When Talking to a Researcher, it was apparent that back then they wouldn't even be handed out proper Guidelines. A lot of their Attributes are randomized anyway, in particular in lower profile leagues….

Edited November 16, 2019 by Svenc

[kiwityke1983]

28 minutes ago, pats said:

8 penalties in a game. Screenshot attached.

 

And even more worrying he missed 5.

There is a 75% chance of scoring a penalty IRL. 

The ME seems to classify Clear cut chances as being less likely to go in than say a 30 yard shot. It's just immersion breaking for me. 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, thejay said:

What kind of staff does he sign? Competent staff or random attributes 

They're about average, not terrible but I'd get a better group if I simply done it myself. Cant remember if he has tendencies or that but he always hires young coaches.

[Svenc]

31 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

There is a 75% chance of scoring a penalty IRL. 

As that equals a 25% chance of the pen not being converted: Purely in Terms of Math, that would still be a 25% ^ 5 or  ~0,1% or 1 in 1000 Chance. That is, it may actually happen to someone even when issues are found and patched. Just likely not within a single match.  

Never underestimate the power of probability.  

 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Svenc

[Bophonet_it]

Excuse me but nobody talking about the oddness of roles? So according to FM19 all the tips can play both in the center and on the side. I've seen players like Saul play left-back, Kane or Icardi play as a right-footed forward !!! What is it? In my opinion it is one of the most unreal things and this happened last year!

[RandomGuy.]

Wheres best to post a bug about Celtic transfers?

I'm in a St Johnstone save I've had since the beta was released (so its maybe already been fixed), but they make some ridiculous transfers. They signed Ross Barkley from Chelsea and are paying him £98k a week.

I didnt actually notice until about a season after he signed for them as he only played 8 times over the season.