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Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread


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Hi All

Does anyone know if the Club Vision issue is now fixed, only asking as due to the apparent vastly improved match engine, I am considering starting my long term career.

Obviously the club vision issue that has been mentioned, if not fixed yet, may impact any long term game?

Just not sure whether to start or wait until Tuesday?

Many thanks

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2 hours ago, Mr U Rosler said:

99.9% of users who aren't on the forum are having a blast, oblivious to any perceived match engine issues. 

A few here who suffer from paralysis by analysis who will never enjoy the game, and seek to hear themselves heard above all others on the forum. 

There are even people who haven't bought and played FM20 complaining about it! 

 

If you are fine with the game, good for you and enjoy it. 

Why put other people down who provide feedback on the match engine? 

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2 hours ago, fm20isascam said:

Meanwhile, even with 20% possession, IA will display a way more attractive football than what you can.
 

The AI uses the exact same match engine and tools as the human user. Perhaps if you had a better understanding of how the game actually works, you would appreciate it a bit more. Sadly, given your username, it's probably well past the point of a lost cause. 

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1 hour ago, Bromley Raven said:

I somehow missed both Football Manager and International Football Manager on the Spectrum. Football management games I remember playing back all those years ago are:

Football Director, good but I seem to remember it crashed whenever you hit space or break.

A combination board game and computer game. I can't remember what it was called, but looking online it could be Brian Clough's Football Fortunes.

Tracksuit Manager but I don't remember much about it

The Double. I loved this game and wrote to the company that made it with a load of suggestions for the sequel if there was one. They never replied and I don't think there was ever a sequel.

I also remember playing Premier Manager, but looking online it was never released on the spectrum, so this must have been later on on a different computer.

Plus a load of little rubbish ones which I don't remember.

Jesus that's a trip down memory lane. 

I remember most if not all of those games having played or owned them at one point or another. 

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1 hour ago, Bromley Raven said:

 

The Double. I loved this game and wrote to the company that made it with a load of suggestions for the sequel if there was one. They never replied and I don't think there was ever a sequel.

 

Loved the Double. Excellent on the Speccy, but very slow on the Commodore 64. 

You're right, they never did a sequel. However, they made the excellent Tracksuit Manager a couple of years later.

 

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10 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Jesus that's a trip down memory lane. 

I remember most if not all of those games having played or owned them at one point or another. 

The Double and Tracksuit Manager were my particular favourites. I think we may be veering off topic however :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The Double and Tracksuit Manager were my particular favourites. I think we may be veering off topic however :lol:

Don't think we are. The graphics are very similar ;)

the-double_7.png

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Early impression of the latest update/patch... 

Big thumbs up. The issues with match engine seem to have been ironed out. I did only manage to play three matches on my Barcelona save last night, but the signs are promising! 

Also, even my poverty spec laptop is running 3D at medium quality nice and smooth. Might turn the graphics up a notch and see how she goes! 

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1 hora atrás, Dagenham_Dave disse:

The AI uses the exact same match engine and tools as the human user. Perhaps if you had a better understanding of how the game actually works, you would appreciate it a bit more. Sadly, given your username, it's probably well past the point of a lost cause. 

I'm not here trying to sound like I have some god complex, but what you said is very true and you can see on the tactics sub forum that most of the people doesn't understand football or the game, or the two to be honest. So, how can I read things here and take things very seriously? Let alone the mods and developers that are trying to do the best and have someone, that probably doesn't know how to set up a tactic, spamming bugs. I made some games on this beta and I'm like you, I don't see anything that these dudes are seeing and I play in a manner that I don't have much space to play.

Edited by Razor940
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vor 8 Stunden schrieb Amarante:

I really am laughing my ass off at all those FM17 videos people posting the goals but yet they are ignoring the **** poor defending  that led to those goals. FM17 was unrealstic. I played a tactic that if i tried that now in 19/20 i would be roasted and yes i did try it and found out i was roasted. 17 had good attacking play because the defending was awful.  18 had a good balance between both, in 19 defending became a thing, like real proper defending not stone statues that don't do anything. 

In 20 i believe we're almost their super close to that point where defending is a thing and attacking is working right.

I know its off topic and im not a fan of 17 myself but saying the defense was awful and defender stone statues is just nonsense, otherwise endless screenshots like that would not have been possible

https://mrkeysirensie.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/fm17-reading-fc-part-xxxx-clean-sheets-galore/#jp-carousel-15885

https://mrkeysirensie.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/fm17-reading-fc-part-xxxx-clean-sheets-galore/#jp-carousel-15883

 

But im with you, early signs of 20 are very promising.

Edited by Defensive
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Just now, Razor940 said:

I'm not here trying to sound like I have some god complex, but what you said is very true and you can see on the tactics sub forum that most of the people doesn't understand football or the game, or the two to be honest. So, how can I read things here and take things very seriously? Let alone the modes and developers that are trying to do the best and have someone that probably doesn't know how to set up a tactic spamming bugs. I made some games on this beta and I'm like you, I don't see anything that these dudes are seeing and I play in a manner that I don't have much space to play.

I'm probably going to take a break from this thread for a while (cue loud applause), it's disheartening when you feel the game is as good as it's been in ages, and you come here and read the endless negativity. 

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12 minutes ago, Pompey1978 said:

Tony Mowbray has just been appointed England manager in my save, in July 2020.

As immersion-busters go, that's right up there :D

If you have a save game before he gets hired then please post this as a bug in the Transfers & Contracts area. Cheers.

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1 minute ago, Glenn Wakeford said:

If you have a save game before he gets hired then please post this as a bug in the Transfers & Contracts area. Cheers.

I'll have a look. Although to be fair, I checked and he did guide Blackburn into the EPL so I suppose his stock has risen to an extent.

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v

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The AI uses the exact same match engine and tools as the human user. Perhaps if you had a better understanding of how the game actually works, you would appreciate it a bit more. Sadly, given your username, it's probably well past the point of a lost cause. 

The AI may come against the ridiculously "pants down lads" attacking tactic of the User though. Which means, like all of Germany's opponents at the World Cup, it may be able to do something immediately however few times it wins the ball back. Whereas itself may be Content with a draw, sit Deep and spoil (which if Happening too ofently, e.g. FM 19, would be actually a viable Thing to rise as genuinelly issue.)

The sad Thing is, for as Long as this "The AI can do something we can't" perception exists, the likelyhood of it improving significantly Drops below Zero.

Edited by Svenc
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1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

Jesus that's a trip down memory lane. 

I remember most if not all of those games having played or owned them at one point or another. 

I'm 60 now and remember them all well...happy days. The Double is still available on emulator lol

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vor 54 Minuten schrieb Razor940:

I'm not here trying to sound like I have some god complex, but what you said is very true and you can see on the tactics sub forum that most of the people doesn't understand football or the game, or the two to be honest. So, how can I read things here and take things very seriously? Let alone the mods and developers that are trying to do the best and have someone, that probably doesn't know how to set up a tactic, spamming bugs. I made some games on this beta and I'm like you, I don't see anything that these dudes are seeing and I play in a manner that I don't have much space to play.

Most of the problems of the match engine which have been posted here have nothing to do with people just  being ignorant about football, this is just disingenuous. 

 

 

Edited by thejay
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Just bought and downloaded. I saw some great intelligence in trying to play a few through balls through the middle. Although only about 1 out of 6 wasn't intercepted(led to a goal), I am delighted at the mere attempt. You can see the difference in a higher tempo, in the way the ball is played too, which is great.

On a side note, it feels like my centre backs spend more time as playmakers than the actual midfield. They create several plays with balls out wide to run onto, or split through and over the middle. Midfielders seem less involved than they are, which is a bit weird. Although I find that the balls over the top aren't too high for me, they are for the AI. I think so far, about 80% of chances were balls over the top resulting in 1v1s that weren't scored. Does take a bit away there. 

Otherwise, this is most definitely playable, and potentially enjoyable. Will see how it goes over time.

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3 hours ago, Mr U Rosler said:

99.9% of users who aren't on the forum are having a blast, oblivious to any perceived match engine issues. 

A few here who suffer from paralysis by analysis who will never enjoy the game, and seek to hear themselves heard above all others on the forum. 

There are even people who haven't bought and played FM20 complaining about it! 

 

Great feedback on the game, thanks for your post. 

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39 minutes ago, Glenn Wakeford said:

If you have a save game before he gets hired then please post this as a bug in the Transfers & Contracts area. Cheers.

Just curious, why would that be a bug? Don't get me wrong, there's obviously better / more qualified candidates, but what's to say he's not the only 1 available?

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1 minute ago, thejay said:

How exactly is this  feedback? That's just a attacking other people because they don't share his opinion 

Whoooooooosh.

And anyway, what that poster said isn't wrong in the slightest.  If you're feeling "attacked" by it then you're kind of proving the point. 

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Just now, thejay said:

How exactly is this  feedback? That's just a attacking other people because they don't share his opinion 

Exactly... There's no feedback at all. He's in the feedback thread complaining about other people's feedback on the game :lol: And somehow he feels he's in the right here.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb forameuss:

Whoooooooosh.

And anyway, what that poster said isn't wrong in the slightest.  If you're feeling "attacked" by it then you're kind of proving the point. 

Are you serious? 

 

There is no need for people being fine with the game to put other people down just because they are less satisfied. 

There are obvious issues with the match engine, just because you don't care does not mean you can attack others who do

 

Edited by thejay
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6 minutes ago, thejay said:

Are you serious? 

 

There is no need for people being fine with the game to put other people down just because they are less satisfied. 

There are obvious issues with the match engine, just because you don't care does not mean you can attack others who do

 

To keep on topic, I'm not actually seeing any of the issues people have posted on here, the only 'issue' that I'm getting that I think is borderline a bug, my full backs grt caught in possession often

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5 minutes ago, thejay said:

Are you serious? 

There is no need for people being fine with the game to put other people down just because they are less satisfied. 

There are obvious issues with the match engine, just because you don't care does not mean you can attack others who do

Literally no-one has said there aren't issues.  This is the same tired old track people fall onto every time something like this comes up.  The complete failure to see in anything other than stark, strict black and white.  Someone can point out issues without being absolutely furious about everything, and they can fairly easily be positive about the game while also knowing there are issues.  There will ALWAYS be issues with the game.  Nothing about what that person said was attacking anyone, and, like I said, if you feel like it is attacking you then you're proving his point.

All the poster was trying to say is that, quite rightly, this thread has always come off as massively negative.  Which is fine.  Not a lot of people are going to post and say "everything is fine", and a lot of people will only be compelled to comment if there's something they want to say, which is usually negative.  Fine.  But it goes too far a lot of the time.  This year has been different, as it appears they've released a fairly solid game, but there's still the same tone.  And again, that's fine, but in him pointing that out, you're jumping on it and pretending like he believes everything is 100% fine.  Which he never said.  Which, again, proves the point.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone is entitled to challenge everyone else's opinion.  Negative feedback is as welcome as positive, but only if it's constructive.  Only listening to people that agree with you - on both sides - isn't particularly constructive.

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16 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

Just curious, why would that be a bug? Don't get me wrong, there's obviously better / more qualified candidates, but what's to say he's not the only 1 available?

It might not be, but it's something we'd want to investigate, as it's not very realistic.

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3 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

No point asking here buddy, ask on the request board or see if there's a skin for it 

I saw it on someones screenshot, he got a 10 for some game even though it was on belgian language. Skin was normal, I think.

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19 minutos atrás, thejay disse:

Most of the problems of the match engine which have been posted here have nothing to do with people just  being ignorant about football, this is just disingenuous. 

 

 

Every year it's the same BS. People literally shame the game all year talking about bugs not looking to the full picture and taking things to stupid levels. Then you go to the tactics board and literally see that most of them don't know how to create nothing and tactic flaws are what driving those "little bs bugs" they talk, every year all year long. I play a style that normally doesn't have much space to use, I would see a lot more long shots, but I, and others, don't see any at all like yall advertising, or other bugs yall talking. 

It's not that there isn't bugs, but slow down on the critics and the tone of them. I'm literally one "not satisfied" bastard in life and I don't come here trashing everything like most. 

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3 hours ago, akakbash said:

After some hours I think it is connected to the progression of player's position learning. For example, he was awkward then his knowing of position raised and the training would reset. But if a player knows position a good amount already (light green) it wont reset even if you play him somewhere else. The problem is consistent through several saves.

Are you saying it is still an issue? If so could you please get this posted in our bugs forum with your above comments? Thank you kindly.

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vor 16 Minuten schrieb forameuss:

Literally no-one has said there aren't issues.  This is the same tired old track people fall onto every time something like this comes up.  The complete failure to see in anything other than stark, strict black and white.  Someone can point out issues without being absolutely furious about everything, and they can fairly easily be positive about the game while also knowing there are issues.  There will ALWAYS be issues with the game.  Nothing about what that person said was attacking anyone, and, like I said, if you feel like it is attacking you then you're proving his point.

All the poster was trying to say is that, quite rightly, this thread has always come off as massively negative.  Which is fine.  Not a lot of people are going to post and say "everything is fine", and a lot of people will only be compelled to comment if there's something they want to say, which is usually negative.  Fine.  But it goes too far a lot of the time.  This year has been different, as it appears they've released a fairly solid game, but there's still the same tone.  And again, that's fine, but in him pointing that out, you're jumping on it and pretending like he believes everything is 100% fine.  Which he never said.  Which, again, proves the point.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone is entitled to challenge everyone else's opinion.  Negative feedback is as welcome as positive, but only if it's constructive.  Only listening to people that agree with you - on both sides - isn't particularly constructive.

this is just a massive generalization which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, please point to examples 

The vast majority of users post well documented posts which clearly elaborate the problems with the current match engine, there is absolutely no negative agenda whatsoever 

If you cant stand when people post negative stuff about the game you dont have to read their opinions, i can't understand when people are offended by "negativity" without any relation if its justified or not .

 

People in this thread have been objective and rational with their criticism in the vast majority of posts, the others have been moderated away anyway.

Edited by thejay
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2 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Are you saying it is still an issue? If so could you please get this posted in our bugs forum with your above comments? Thank you kindly.

Yes. I've posted it in the thread I created a few weeks back. Does it matter if a save was started before the latest patch?

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2 minutes ago, akakbash said:

Yes. I've posted it in the thread I created a few weeks back. Does it matter if a save was started before the latest patch?

No that will be fine. Thank you!

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11 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

No that will be fine. Thank you!

I've uploaded the most recent saves with this issue appearing (one player who is trained in position loses his indidual role training after a week). Does it have connection with his position knowledge? Would You look into it?

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played a full season in the last ME, i think the balance its good, one of the best in the last patches including fm19, the only thing that bothers me is that there is matches were the fouls/card are really high like 7+ 3/5 games.

also i would really like if we could have the option to disable automatic subtitutions when using match plans, is really frustrating setting up a plan for a game and seeing your assistant making substitutions at 10 mins  because you are not playing a player in his natural position even tho he is getting results and in the bench there is a better suited player, but there is no problem with condition or injuries. the match plan feature is realistic, the players should know that if they are winnning by a few goals there is no need to keep pushing at a high intensity and just approach the game for a while with a little more time wasting.

Edited by kertiek
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3 hours ago, Connor said:

Hi All

Does anyone know if the Club Vision issue is now fixed, only asking as due to the apparent vastly improved match engine, I am considering starting my long term career.

Obviously the club vision issue that has been mentioned, if not fixed yet, may impact any long term game?

Just not sure whether to start or wait until Tuesday?

Many thanks

Anyone know about this?... many thanks

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46 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Literally no-one has said there aren't issues.  This is the same tired old track people fall onto every time something like this comes up.  The complete failure to see in anything other than stark, strict black and white.  Someone can point out issues without being absolutely furious about everything, and they can fairly easily be positive about the game while also knowing there are issues.  There will ALWAYS be issues with the game.  Nothing about what that person said was attacking anyone, and, like I said, if you feel like it is attacking you then you're proving his point.

All the poster was trying to say is that, quite rightly, this thread has always come off as massively negative.  Which is fine.  Not a lot of people are going to post and say "everything is fine", and a lot of people will only be compelled to comment if there's something they want to say, which is usually negative.  Fine.  But it goes too far a lot of the time.  This year has been different, as it appears they've released a fairly solid game, but there's still the same tone.  And again, that's fine, but in him pointing that out, you're jumping on it and pretending like he believes everything is 100% fine.  Which he never said.  Which, again, proves the point.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone is entitled to challenge everyone else's opinion.  Negative feedback is as welcome as positive, but only if it's constructive.  Only listening to people that agree with you - on both sides - isn't particularly constructive.

Just imagining the year 3000 - robotic footballers - Messi T1000 didn't pass it through to Ronaldo T1000, despite being clean through, he passed it to Ronaldinho T1000 on the left wing, 50 yards away - Messi T1000's programming is bugged, sort it out SI! (Also picturing Miles' head in a Futurama-esque preservation jar :D)

Come to think of it, isn't there a train of scientific thought that all brain pattern is nothing more than extremely complex algorithm? It wont be long before the lines are so blurred we won't be able to tell the difference!

Edited by martplfc1
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