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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2020 Pre-Release Beta *Official* Feedback Thread

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@RDF Tactics Then I guess we are talking about the same and just got wires crossed.  You were responding to someone who had been pointing out that many people are using the Bugs forum to give feedback and your reply seemed to suggest that's what they should do if they wanted to discuss things.  All cleared up now :thup:.

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10 minutes ago, Cassius99 said:

Anyone else having issues with crowd sound stuttering during games since updating to newest beta?

I have that issue (or something similar) i see stuttering sometimes, but when i checked my FPS with MSI Afterburner it said 60 FPS all the time!
I'm not sure if it is a bug or just my eyes bad :D

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nice one for fixing the note bug! :cool:

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Solid defending. The shielding and the playing of the ball-carrier onto his left weaker foot (as instructed) and then the tackle. The marking from the other defenders is fantastic too! Look at each player closely. I have it on extensive highlights and I'm practically ooing and aahing with every other highlight, not so much because the highlights show some remarkable play, but because for the first time in FM for me (been playing since CM3), it is starting to represent football and proper behavior from players. I know the game will always have those odd head-scratching moments. I am finding it so enjoyable to watch the highlights, both 3D and Classic 2D and obviously to play. There is a nice variety of goals and chances. The throughballs centrally to a forward are still lacking but I see them from time to time. Also, after 20 games, I too am seeing too many yellow and red cards.

giphy.gif

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10 minutes ago, rain94 said:

Solid defending. The shielding and the playing of the ball-carrier onto his left weaker foot (as instructed) and then the tackle. The marking from the other defenders is fantastic too! Look at each player closely. I have it on extensive highlights and I'm practically ooing and aahing with every other highlight, not so much because the highlights show some remarkable play, but because for the first time in FM for me (been playing since CM3), it is starting to represent football and proper behavior from players. I know the game will always have those odd head-scratching moments. I am finding it so enjoyable to watch the highlights, both 3D and Classic 2D and obviously to play. There is a nice variety of goals and chances.

giphy.gif

Really nice example, and very encouraging indeed to witness that solid defending.

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Dribbling seems much more fluid and realistic for sure. I played my first match as PSV last night at Basel in a CL qualifier using gegenpress and won 0-6 

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On the numerous yellow card issue...I play with higher tempo, pressing urgent, getting stuck in, and defensive width set to narrow if that makes any difference. In my last game as shown, very low # of shots on target and total shots from both sides...but it was an exciting match with good defending. 10 yellows in total.

I don't have a screenshot of it currently, but my 2nd to last match, me 15 shots / 5 on target to the AI's 21 shots / 7 on target. I lost 4-1. 9 yellow cards total for both sides and a double yellow for me on top and a sending off in the 80th minute.    

image.png

Edited by rain94

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18 minutes ago, rain94 said:

On the numerous yellow card issue...I play with higher tempo, pressing urgent, getting stuck in, and defensive width set to narrow if that makes any difference. In my last game as shown, very low # of shots on target and total shots from both sides...but it was an exciting match with good defending. 10 yellows in total.

I don't have a screenshot of it currently, but my 2nd to last match, me 15 shots / 5 on target to the AI's 21 shots / 7 on target. I lost 4-1. 9 yellow cards total for both sides and a double yellow for me on top and a sending off in the 80th minute.    

image.png

Try changing from get stuck in to stand up my card rate has been lowered a lot since and they sometimes intercept the ball from the OP in interesting positions too 😀

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I'm not seeing many yellow/red cards at all, well no more than usual. I wonder if it depends what level you're playing at. 

Southport have the most yellow cards in my league with 41 from 20 games. That sounds about normal, I think. And there are three teams with three red cards each, which is the most in the league. Seems quite balanced at the level I'm playing at.  

 

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We need to compare the card statistics for one the top level leagues to lower leagues. (For the new ME version)

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44 minutes ago, rain94 said:



giphy.gif

I'm really not sure how people can say this updated engine is worse than the last one. LOOK AT IT!! It's a thing of beauty. :D

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Will try that out Dagenham_Dave. If the numerous yellows are a consequence of using the getting stuck-in instruction, then I suppose it's realistic. Just part of the drawback besides getting dribbled, and being injured. Need to keep an eye on the instruction and use it more judiciously as opposed to setting it in the beginning of the match and leaving it as getting stuck in.

Edited by rain94

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'Get stuck in' has always had you treading the tightrope, and rightly so. 

Playing with it on for 90 minutes is asking for trouble, especially with a strict ref. 

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Just now, Mr U Rosler said:

Playing with it on for 90 minutes is asking for trouble, especially with a strict ref. 

Tbh, never had that issue before in past FM's. I would leave it on getting stuckin for 90 minutes and I don't recall having too many problems with yellow cards accumulation.  But the AI is receiving a lot of yellows too in the FM20 Beta so it's not just the human player.

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3 minutes ago, rain94 said:

Tbh, never had that issue before in past FM's. I would leave it on getting stuckin for 90 minutes and I don't recall having too many problems with yellow cards accumulation.  But the AI is receiving a lot of yellows too in the FM20 Beta so it's not just the human player.

There is perhaps bigger repercussions on the 'get stuck in' instruction this year. It would be worthwhile uploading your save though, and let the devs have a look at it. 

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Get stuck in?  Football is not for ballerinas.

(+1 internet if you know the quote :)).

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Really good game, marking and defending is a lot more realistic now in terms of how you see them defend on the pitch. It’s really improved a lot. This is the first time I’ve felt able to play the game in years as the unrealistic defending in previous versions was game breaking for me and caused me to uninstall.

I like the Development Centre, Club Vision and things like Mentoring. All steps in the right direction.

I do find Training extremely daunting and I have no idea how to construct schedules or how to determine if the schedules I create are any good or not. I have no idea how to periodise or structure training holistically across an entire training calendar and full season. Incredibly daunting but don’t want to leave it to my assistant as I want to maximise training results and development.

In all honestly, unless there’s some good free guides out there on how to really make the most of training, I’ll probably skip this year’s game as well despite improvements in other areas of the game.

For the record, I really like the training module, it’s just too much for me to get my head around without good documentation on how to make good schedules and how to properly periodise training the best way throughout a season.

Just my honest thoughts. Thanks.

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Is it normal that the chairman just offers a player a contract extension, even though I am responsible for contract handling? I cannot show pictures now but if it's a bug I'll post a save file and pictures. Did it happen to you guys?

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anyone know why this has been removed on scout reports on this new update ?

image.thumb.png.bf77dfa0340940cea8f84a728e92f8c7.png

 

 

now my reports only have CA

image.thumb.png.f232b9199a76d1d71225f438266b34b5.png

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Juego de Posicion said:

I do find Training extremely daunting and I have no idea how to construct schedules or how to determine if the schedules I create are any good or not. I have no idea how to periodise or structure training holistically across an entire training calendar and full season. Incredibly daunting but don’t want to leave it to my assistant as I want to maximise training results and development.

I do something in between. I take control of all individual training, so I can train players in positions/attributes I want, but I leave the creating of the main team schedules to the assistant. However, if I've seen something I think the team should be working on, I'll go into the calendar and change a training drill without taking over the whole schedule. This works for me, as I don't want to get bogged down in developing whole schedules.  You could maybe try that? 

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@Showerman, I can still see PA in my reports. Could it be a resolution thing? Since the update it might now be missing from lower resolutions? 

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14 hours ago, BigV said:

How are the CAM formations going? CAM as either main role so the AP and AM. Notice a difference or are they still "restricted" in some parts? 

Mixed for me, but I'm still tinkering with the AM, switching between S/A to see if it makes much difference.

They're always going to be tricky to get working though, because a lot of AI teams will go with two DM, especially if you're a top team.

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48 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

Is the demo usually available as soon as the game is released?

We are not normally told when the demo will be released, but it is usually just after the main game release.

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31 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Get stuck in?  Football is not for ballerinas.

(+1 internet if you know the quote :)).

A not so gentile footballer....

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Gegenpress is still overpowered. There should be serious repercussions for players who use Gegenpress with unsuited teams. LLM especially should not be able to use Gegenpress. 

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16 minutes ago, Juego de Posicion said:

Really good game, marking and defending is a lot more realistic now in terms of how you see them defend on the pitch. It’s really improved a lot. This is the first time I’ve felt able to play the game in years as the unrealistic defending in previous versions was game breaking for me and caused me to uninstall.

I like the Development Centre, Club Vision and things like Mentoring. All steps in the right direction.

I do find Training extremely daunting and I have no idea how to construct schedules or how to determine if the schedules I create are any good or not. I have no idea how to periodise or structure training holistically across an entire training calendar and full season. Incredibly daunting but don’t want to leave it to my assistant as I want to maximise training results and development.

In all honestly, unless there’s some good free guides out there on how to really make the most of training, I’ll probably skip this year’s game as well despite improvements in other areas of the game.

For the record, I really like the training module, it’s just too much for me to get my head around without good documentation on how to make good schedules and how to properly periodise training the best way throughout a season.

Just my honest thoughts. Thanks.

I find leaving the general training to the assistant to be perfectly fine. They do a good job of tailoring your training to your tactics. I handle the individual training as I find that to be alot less time consuming.

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9 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I do something in between. I take control of all individual training, so I can train players in positions/attributes I want, but I leave the creating of the main team schedules to the assistant. However, if I've seen something I think the team should be working on, I'll go into the calendar and change a training drill without taking over the whole schedule. This works for me, as I don't want to get bogged down in developing whole schedules.  You could maybe try that? 

I see what you mean and that’s a good option I guess. I think I’m just someone who wants full immersion, but I want to understand what I’m doing, which I have no clue about with regards to training at present.

If there was accompanying documentation on how to periodise training throughout the season and really get the most out of it, without relying on an assistant, that would be ideal.

I wouldn’t want to see the training features simplified as I think they are realistic (which is what I think the aim should be). I’d just love more education for people like me who have never run training in real life or periodised training across a whole professional football season before. I’d like to learn but there seems few options for that at present.

Not a criticism at all, just feedback on how I feel about it just now. Cheers. 👍

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Anyone remember CM01/02..or was it 00/01? The one where Roma was practically unbeatable with Batistuta and Totti and Capello as manager? Well, enter Liverpool on FM20. Lost 0 games in my 1st season in the league and 8 games into 2nd season they are again with 8 wins. That is now 46 games unbeaten. I know they are supposed to be good but this is getting quite scary now. At least it is a challenge to beat them to the title I guess.

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I also didn't noticed extreme amount of yellow cards, I think it's realistic. I play with get stuck in and high press and only once in the entire season got more than 6 cards. There were some karate kicks but you see this things IRL, especially in "hot" matches (e.g. Richarlison tried to kill some Liverpool player at Anfield in my save) but nothing crazy. As for the number of shots, it seems ok, didn't see any crazy stats. And the game runs smoother than ever. I play with high graphic settings and my card is barely working (<50% load). However, in the first version of beta I had more FPS (close to 144 as this is my monitor refresh rate), now it seems the game isn't trying to get more than 80s. 

Sometimes from reading the comments, it looks like everyone is playing different game.

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4 hours ago, Boss said:

No doubt about it, the game on my MacBook Air (2017) is an awful lot slower with the new update. I know it isn't the most amazing laptop to play FM on but the previous Beta version was so snappy and quick but now the game feels sluggish and there is almost a second pause after every click now.

Anyone got any ideas on how to resolve this and get it back to how it was on the previous Beta version?

Does anyone have an idea re this? Anyone else experiencing issues?

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26 minutes ago, robot_skeleton said:

Is it normal that the chairman just offers a player a contract extension, even though I am responsible for contract handling? I cannot show pictures now but if it's a bug I'll post a save file and pictures. Did it happen to you guys?

That sounds like an issue to me. If you have a save game from before the Chairman put in the contract extension could you please start a thread over in the Transfer and Contract bugs forum. 

Details on how to upload a save game can be found below. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Iwabik said:

e.g. Richarlison tried to kill some Liverpool player at Anfield in my save

:lol::lol::lol:

I would love to see the video for that. 

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6 hours ago, Svenc said:


That said, the AI may be contributing to as well. ONe dimensional shot stats in particular on this series are simply a byproduct of the AI shutting up shop, being Content with a draw (and sometimes, just not getting trashed). Primarily focused on trying to make it harder to score for the Opposition. This would happen as to FM too much anyway. As soon as the AI is an Underdog in particular, there's a tendency to go that way, whilst in actual Football, Eibar may have an actual go at Barcelona, in particular during Bursts of a match. Purely "simple stats" wise, a bigger concern was if the same were Happening away to Munich, and Kovac actually opted to attack some. Like back on the FM 19 SI Twitch stream with Leverkusen demonstrating the "Gegenpress" preset, in which both Dortmund as well as Munich barely got out of their half anymore with a shot Count of 20 vs 5 for SI managed Leverkusen each (still both won the match against SI staff, mind). :D 

The simple shot data doesn't give that much away at the end of the day. However, as soon as the AI Drops off to spoil, having very one dimensional shot data has Always been the norm. The amount of attempts purely from the set piece would pile up, as well as from range and in generally crowded spaces, which makes for lower conversion rates, but then it should do that, naturally. :D The entire Point of spoiling is trying to Limit premium spaces, after all. Shots from the set piece in my opinion however have Always been too easy to come by. This then gives the Illusion of "Domination", whilst in fact it may be a Team struggling to break a defense down from any genuine Play. On Releases without set piece exploits to save their butts (E.g. NOT FM 2019), this sees Players fuming every year.


As of the refs/yellows: May be worth checking out their Attributes in such matches. On a couple Prior Releases, their discipline Rating in particular would scale very linearly (and unrealistically) with the amount of yellows, for instance. Refs with low discipline Ratings for instance barely averaged a booking per matchl. Meanwhile those with high discipline Ratings averaged 5+ bookings per match. Looking at ref data, it is clear that Overall the Long-term booking stats are Pretty even for refs within a Competition. Aside of the match Play and tactical combinations leading to possibly additional fouls: Maybe there's a Connection to ref attributes here as well.

 

edit: Surely Hannover AI scoring off 2 shots on target has got to be the bug though. *runs* ;D 
 

Sure, AI contributes to it with it's approach, but that's only one part of the issue. IRL, when teams decide just to sit back and not attack at all, we still don't see anywhere near this many opportunities to shoot. This feels much more like arcade than simulation.

Having said that, I am not sure if the latest videos/streams that I've been watching are using the latest update of the ME. I am just waiting for Nov 19 to test it myself.

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1 minute ago, bleventozturk said:

Having said that, I am not sure if the latest videos/streams that I've been watching are using the latest update of the ME. I am just waiting for Nov 19 to test it myself.

i don't think those videos use new ME, football looks really bad with all those perfect long balls over top and switching flank. agree about too many shots too. 

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15 minutes ago, luka_ said:

Anyone remember CM01/02..or was it 00/01? The one where Roma was practically unbeatable with Batistuta and Totti and Capello as manager? Well, enter Liverpool on FM20. Lost 0 games in my 1st season in the league and 8 games into 2nd season they are again with 8 wins. That is now 46 games unbeaten. I know they are supposed to be good but this is getting quite scary now. At least it is a challenge to beat them to the title I guess.

You should try La Liga. I have 4 teams ahead of me in the table on track of winning 100+ points, basically all points dropped are when they play each other :lol: Kind of realistic I suppose (except Valencia being in god mode).

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Wait, I’m confused. I’ve not followed champions league for years, shouldn’t i have gone through on goal difference? I come 3rd. Are rules changed or what

545A9C5E-5040-49C9-991E-1E3188446B36.jpeg

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49 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

@Showerman, I can still see PA in my reports. Could it be a resolution thing? Since the update it might now be missing from lower resolutions? 

 

1920x1080 full screen or windowed its the same on a 26" monitor

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5 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

Wait, I’m confused. I’ve not followed champions league for years, shouldn’t i have gone through on goal difference? I come 3rd. Are rules changed or what

545A9C5E-5040-49C9-991E-1E3188446B36.jpeg

If two teams have the same amount points, Champions League group stage standings are decided on first order by results of matches played between the two teams. See competition rules.

Edited by Iwabik

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5 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

Wait, I’m confused. I’ve not followed champions league for years, shouldn’t i have gone through on goal difference? I come 3rd. Are rules changed or what

545A9C5E-5040-49C9-991E-1E3188446B36.jpeg

Head to head results now I believe unfortunately!

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Hmmm thanks guys. I actually drew with them twice but the difference is it was 1-1 at home and 0-0 away, so they go through based on their away goal, I guess 

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3 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

Hmmm thanks guys. I actually drew with them twice but the difference is it was 1-1 at home and 0-0 away, so they go through based on their away goal, I guess 

Exactly that

 

50 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

:lol::lol::lol:

I would love to see the video for that. 

I will try to upload it when I'm home. If I don't forget. 

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1 hour ago, Juego de Posicion said:

I do find Training extremely daunting and I have no idea how to construct schedules or how to determine if the schedules I create are any good or not. I have no idea how to periodise or structure training holistically across an entire training calendar and full season. Incredibly daunting but don’t want to leave it to my assistant as I want to maximise training results and development.

Have a look in the "Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion" forum. There is a sticky on top which you might find interesting.

I play FM Touch by the way. Training is less complicated there.

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1 minute ago, Burbian De Bay said:

Have a look in the "Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion" forum. There is a sticky on top which you might find interesting.

I play FM Touch by the way. Training is less complicated there.

I’ve read the sticky and even Rashidi/BustTheNet’s book but neither goes into the level of detail I’m looking for unfortunately.

Thanks for the suggestion though! 👍

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Seeing a bit more of the match engine, starting to notice the small things that I'm really enjoying (it *may* have coincided with my team's form picking up too!)

Players seem to have more options going forward now. On 19 it felt like the options seemed to be either shoot, cross or just run straight into the defender. They seem more inclined to take defenders on now, or go for a simple pass. 

Not seeing the same improvements defensively thus far, and I'm still seeing goals fall into a few too many silos (particularly goals I'm conceeding - seem to either be set pieces or shots from outside the box a quite high amount of the time) . But impressed with how much more... intricate going forward seems to be. 

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(Random observation - sample size of ten games or so with a pretty ropey Vanarama South team)

Anyone else seeing quite low match ratings for defensive players? Might just be a bad run but seeing lots of defenders scoring 6.2 and below quite a bit. Don't recall that last year at all.

(Could just be my specific save)

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12 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

I'm sorry, aren't you saying the same thing then? The tactic is named broken lol :) which I believe it means it is a setup that AI can't handle? That's what I meant in my previous post. Or maybe I am misunderstanding your response.

 

Does it utilize high intensity pressing?

The AI uses high intensity pressing also. Many of them use gegenpress tactic even bottom half teams, esp in bundesliga. 

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1 hour ago, Showerman said:

anyone know why this has been removed on scout reports on this new update ?

image.thumb.png.bf77dfa0340940cea8f84a728e92f8c7.png

 

 

now my reports only have CA

image.thumb.png.f232b9199a76d1d71225f438266b34b5.png

 

 

you are comparing the report card from a scout meeting with the scout report on a player profile. These are not the same screens, which could explain the difference you are seeing.

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