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[Russia] (Official) League Specific Issues

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Please post any specific issues for Russia competitions here. This is for any issue which does not relate to data and is for areas such as:

- Competition Rules (Leagues and Cups)
- Disciplinary Rules
- Transfer Rules

We would request you all to adhere to the following three point plan when posting in here:

- State what you think is specifically wrong in your league.
- State how you think it should be working.
- State reasons/proof for your corrections/improvements.

Please note that specific data issues for Russia should be posted in the Database and Research Issues forum.

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COMPETITION RULES ERROR - RUSSIAN FIRST DIVISION (FNL)

There is a rule that says no player can be over the age of 33 in the match squad, but this cannot be possible.  This eliminates many of my team's (Torpedo Moscow) real life starters.  For instance, here is a match played by Torpedo in the FNL with Ryazantsev and Lebedenko who are 33 and 36 respectively, but both are ineligible due to age in my FM 2020 save as Torpedo.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/3266569

Maybe it is supposed to be a limit on the number of players over the age of 33?

Edited by Lilah

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14 hours ago, Lilah said:

COMPETITION RULES ERROR - RUSSIAN FIRST DIVISION (FNL)

There is a rule that says no player can be over the age of 33 in the match squad, but this cannot be possible.  This eliminates many of my team's (Torpedo Moscow) real life starters.  For instance, here is a match played by Torpedo in the FNL with Ryazantsev and Lebedenko who are 33 and 36 respectively, but both are ineligible due to age in my FM 2020 save as Torpedo.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/spielbericht/index/spielbericht/3266569

Maybe it is supposed to be a limit on the number of players over the age of 33?

Thanks @Lilah - I'm not sure when or how this rule got added as I can't see it on our system. But we'll get it removed. 

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Spartak must play 3 games versus Rubim in Seasom 19\20 - double-game away during first lap

Edited by gerrbor

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The rules of the regulations for the match indicate that I can use 0 players older than 33 years, it turns out a few of my players just sit out the application for the season and that's all, is this a mistake ?

Скриншот 02-11-2019 212236.png

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Also there is no any age restrictions in FNL (Football national league - russian 1st division) reglamentation, so it's strange rule

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Well there is the limitchik rule where one U21 player has to be on the pitch at all times. But there are cases when this doesn't apply.

  • If the limitchik player is sent off, the team which that player belongs to is not obliged to introduce another (if there is not another remaining on the pitch) and may finish the game with 10 men aged over 21.
  • If a team is unable to field a limitchik player, they will have to start a match with 10 men.
  • If two limitchiks start and play the first 45 minutes, both may be replaced with non-limitchik players for the remainder of the game.

It's a very intricate rule system. Though I have only seen the first of these three actually occur so far in real life.

 

I have also not seen any team on FM20 in the FNL use 5 substitutes - this is a new rule for the 19/20 season. I don't know for definite if this has not been applied in FM20 but if not it needs to be. In real life this season, the 5 subs rule is being used heavily by most FNL clubs.

 

 

Edited by Suggy33

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On 02/11/2019 at 19:12, Redson15 said:

The rules of the regulations for the match indicate that I can use 0 players older than 33 years, it turns out a few of my players just sit out the application for the season and that's all, is this a mistake ?

Скриншот 02-11-2019 212236.png

This is indeed a mistake that will be corrected. 

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On 03/11/2019 at 23:53, Suggy33 said:

Well there is the limitchik rule where one U21 player has to be on the pitch at all times. But there are cases when this doesn't apply.

  • If the limitchik player is sent off, the team which that player belongs to is not obliged to introduce another (if there is not another remaining on the pitch) and may finish the game with 10 men aged over 21.
  • If a team is unable to field a limitchik player, they will have to start a match with 10 men.
  • If two limitchiks start and play the first 45 minutes, both may be replaced with non-limitchik players for the remainder of the game.

It's a very intricate rule system. Though I have only seen the first of these three actually occur so far in real life.

 

I have also not seen any team on FM20 in the FNL use 5 substitutes - this is a new rule for the 19/20 season. I don't know for definite if this has not been applied in FM20 but if not it needs to be. In real life this season, the 5 subs rule is being used heavily by most FNL clubs.

 

 

Clarification on the 5th Sub rule - does the 5th substitute have to be one Russian Youth Player replaced by another Russian Youth Player? 

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I wasn't actually aware of that but having dug through the rules that is correct.

"During the Match, the maximum number of substitutions for each team is 4 players from the number started in the lineup. If one Russian Youth Player is replaced with another Russian Youth Player the Club receives the right to only one additional (fifth) substitution."

 

Other exceptions to the "Russian Youth Player" rules:

During each Match each club must use one Russian Youth Player, with the exception of the following specified conditions:

- the Russian Youth Player is injured during the match and the number of substitutions is exhausted;

- The Russian Youth Player being sent off

 

If two or more Russian Youth Players participate in the match as part of one Club, the following are exceptions:

- two or more Russian Youth Players getting injured during the Match

- Russian Youth Players being sent off.

- "Substitution of Young players, with the first substitution of a Young player allowed no earlier than after the first half"

 

The list of rules (in Russian) is here: https://1fnl.ru/upload/s4y_docs/60/Link/Reglament_Olimp-Pervenstva_FNL-2019-2020_1.pdf 

These rules in particular come from pages 31/32.

Edited by Suggy33

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On 05/11/2019 at 21:37, Suggy33 said:

I wasn't actually aware of that but having dug through the rules that is correct.

"During the Match, the maximum number of substitutions for each team is 4 players from the number started in the lineup. If one Russian Youth Player is replaced with another Russian Youth Player the Club receives the right to only one additional (fifth) substitution."

 

Other exceptions to the "Russian Youth Player" rules:

During each Match each club must use one Russian Youth Player, with the exception of the following specified conditions:

- the Russian Youth Player is injured during the match and the number of substitutions is exhausted;

- The Russian Youth Player being sent off

 

If two or more Russian Youth Players participate in the match as part of one Club, the following are exceptions:

- two or more Russian Youth Players getting injured during the Match

- Russian Youth Players being sent off.

- "Substitution of Young players, with the first substitution of a Young player allowed no earlier than after the first half"

 

The list of rules (in Russian) is here: https://1fnl.ru/upload/s4y_docs/60/Link/Reglament_Olimp-Pervenstva_FNL-2019-2020_1.pdf 

These rules in particular come from pages 31/32.

I don't know if we could currently support a rule like that but I know plans are in place for a similar rule to be supported in the future. We'll investigate for the meantime potentially just allowing the user to have an unrestricted 5 subs from 12, but that's a decision for the HR to take. Thanks for the translation and the detail, it's much appreciated as sometimes Google isn't great with the translation stuff.  

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Happy to help. As long as it’s at least closer to reality that will be a good thing, so the 5 subs would be good.

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This should be posted in other sub-forum, but I can't post there, so here it goes.
Ok, so, Spartak Moscow, just qualified for EURO Cup, first game is on february, 20. Now is december, 13. The thing is, my players just went for winter vacation till 7 of february (!!!), which would make ALMOST TWO MONTHS of vacations. In real life it doesn't happen like that at all, Russian teams play exhibition tournaments in january and sure do their training. The players are pros, they get paid all year around and of course they should have their vacation too, but NOWHERE AS MUCH. Two weeks in winter, three weeks in summer (or 1 week / 4 weeks) would be absolutely enough.
As it stands, it's impossible to be competitive playing in Russia (where your players are training just 9 months out of 12), and even though I didn't plan to manage in Russia after game is released, it doesn't feel right.

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On 12/11/2019 at 05:30, Hunger said:

This should be posted in other sub-forum, but I can't post there, so here it goes.
Ok, so, Spartak Moscow, just qualified for EURO Cup, first game is on february, 20. Now is december, 13. The thing is, my players just went for winter vacation till 7 of february (!!!), which would make ALMOST TWO MONTHS of vacations. In real life it doesn't happen like that at all, Russian teams play exhibition tournaments in january and sure do their training. The players are pros, they get paid all year around and of course they should have their vacation too, but NOWHERE AS MUCH. Two weeks in winter, three weeks in summer (or 1 week / 4 weeks) would be absolutely enough.
As it stands, it's impossible to be competitive playing in Russia (where your players are training just 9 months out of 12), and even though I didn't plan to manage in Russia after game is released, it doesn't feel right.

Hey @Hunger - Good points made here. We could probably shorten the winter break taken by players where they are on holiday. With that Spartak Moscow team, did the holiday not get shortened? On my save game I've just looked at with Lokomotiv, they made the next round of the Euro Cup and went on holiday until January 16th only. 

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У клуба   "Томь" есть трансферный запрет до 10.02.2020, как и в прошлом сезоне. В реальной жизни этого запрета нет.

Скриншот Football Manager 2019.11.15 - 22.33.15.43.png

Edited by kepleomax

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24 minutes ago, kepleomax said:

У клуба   "Томь" есть трансферный запрет до 10.02.2020, как и в прошлом сезоне. В реальной жизни этого запрета нет.

Скриншот Football Manager 2019.11.15 - 22.33.15.43.png

Hi, you need to post this on the data forum in the Russia thread 

 

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1 minute ago, Снеговивичок said:

There is the mistake in the rules (min 1 player from Russia isnt older 21 years old, burned after 31/12/1998).

 The rule in real life-Burned after 31/12/1997.

Please, change this

f_h6SuTuMyA.jpg

Which competition is this?

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On 16/11/2019 at 00:54, Suggy33 said:

Source for that: https://news.sportbox.ru/Vidy_sporta/Futbol/Russia/1st_division/spbnews_NI1045105_Pravilo_limitchika_v_FNL_Chto_ob_etom_nuzhno_znat

Since this season, a player born in 1998 or later must be on the field in the FNL teams.

 

On 15/11/2019 at 18:24, Снеговивичок said:

There is the mistake in the rules (min 1 player from Russia isnt older 21 years old, burned after 31/12/1998).

 The rule in real life-Burned after 31/12/1997.

Please, change this

f_h6SuTuMyA.jpg

Thanks for the source - logged to be changed. 

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The rule "min 1 player from Russia isnt older 21 years old, burned after 31/12/1997" in FNL league always changes after 20/06/2019 to "min 1 player from Russia isnt older 21 years old, burned after 31/12/1998"

It isnt in real life, please change this problem

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So there's a rule that a U21 player has to been in the starting XI in FNL, however, Yenisey doesn't have any players which qualify for this rule, so instead they "start" two goalkeepers and instantly sub one off--playing the vast majority of the game with 10 men (first image). I also attached a squad view showing that they indeed have no U21 in their squad. I imagine this is a bug with how the AI handles registration, assuming the rule is correct. 

I have doubts because the rule can lead a player to be stuck since you have to actively register U21 in your 25 player maximum squad and if your U21 squad player(s) are unavailable, you literally cannot proceed the game since you cannot meet the U21 quota, as unregistered U21 players cannot play senior squad matches. 

Screen Shot 2019-11-19 at 17.39.18.png

Screen Shot 2019-11-19 at 17.43.16.png

Edited by eggs_mcgoo

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In real life Yenisey have been dipping into their youth team to resolve this, but I had hoped the rule would force FNL clubs to buy/loan U21 players in FM20 to fit the rule, so that is worrying to see. Hopefully I can fix it in my own data file.

Obviously they have young players in their team in game (Razdorskikh, Uzhgin, Matvienko, Vorobyev have all been used this season in reality). Maybe they need a CA boost to force the team to use them a bit more? Though that defeats the point.

Im not sure on squad limits in real life really, since teams like Chertanovo have used over 30 players in their match squads this season, so I would have to assume U21 players do not need to be registered “officially” in the squad list. If this was removed I imagine it would fix things, just needs verifying.

 

 

Edited by Suggy33

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Have just been discussing FNL rules with a friend who gave me a little run down on squad registration rules:

 

- You have to register 3 homegrown players (those who were registered for your club for at least 3 years between ages 12 and 21)

- the homegrown players can be of any age

- this rule only applies to the clubs that played in FNL for at least 4 seasons

- squad size registered is 25

- plus 10 U21 players that can play without being registered in the squad of 25

- no more than 5 foreigners and no more than 5 loanees in the squad at the same time

 

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So based on that info, would it make sense for the in-game squad size to be changed to 35, with 10 of those spots reserved for U21? Alternatively, 35 with 25 spots reserved for O21. Whichever is easier to program into the game. Plus the loan/foreigner/HG rules.

Also, it's interesting how they have the 4 seasons in the league thing. 

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I have bypassed it by allowing U21 players to not need to be registered. Most FNL clubs in game have only their senior squad and a handful of young players, so very few will actually exceed the 10 U21s anyway.

 

The on pitch rule is actually U22. I ran it once with U21 and realised it was wrong - for example Baltika: Maklakov In real life is counted as limitchik but in game was not, same with Latyshonok there.

 

The rules are now working pretty much correct now for me and in test runs all teams are indeed abiding by the rule, rather than the Yenisey bug.

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Following a rule change limiting the number of foreign players to 8 at the end of the first season, teams are still able to register 9-10 foreigners and give them playing time in the league. My team was also able to field 9 foreigners in the 2nd season as I -without realizing- happened to holiday past the registration date with 9 foreigners in.

1536170790_2019-11-2913_34_12-Greenshot.thumb.png.d42d2bc74b09b8e64b5933aedd97d58f.png1250976572_2019-11-2913_33_48-Greenshot.thumb.png.6683e5fe94b2527fc8d7640078a5c1f1.png

Quote

 

 

Edited by msuatgunerli

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28 minutes ago, msuatgunerli said:

Following a rule change limiting the number of foreign players to 8 at the end of the first season, teams are still able to register 9-10 foreigners and give them playing time in the league. My team was also able to field 9 foreigners in the 2nd season as I -without realizing- happened to holiday past the registration date with 9 foreigners in.

1536170790_2019-11-2913_34_12-Greenshot.thumb.png.d42d2bc74b09b8e64b5933aedd97d58f.png1250976572_2019-11-2913_33_48-Greenshot.thumb.png.6683e5fe94b2527fc8d7640078a5c1f1.png

 

Do you happen to have a save just before the registration date? Would make reproducing this much easier. Thank you. 

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Sorry, I save fortnightly out of habit. But I started the save on the most recent version after the two hotfixes addressing the issues with hidden attributes were released if that helps. 

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On 29/11/2019 at 15:41, msuatgunerli said:

Sorry, I save fortnightly out of habit. But I started the save on the most recent version after the two hotfixes addressing the issues with hidden attributes were released if that helps. 

Cool, I'll see if I can reproduce this. 

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