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Dan Ormsby

[Argentina] (Official) League Specific Issues

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Please post any specific issues for Argentina competitions here. This is for any issue which does not relate to data and is for areas such as:

- Competition Rules (Leagues and Cups)
- Disciplinary Rules
- Transfer Rules

We would request you all to adhere to the following three point plan when posting in here:

- State what you think is specifically wrong in your league.
- State how you think it should be working.
- State reasons/proof for your corrections/improvements.

Please note that specific data issues for Argentina should be posted in the Database and Research Issues forum.

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There are no league sorting rules for Copa de la Superliga Group Stage. At least use Goal Difference and Goals Scored like the Superliga.

20191106221322_1.thumb.jpg.bdb13a93f02893c42ffd623ff78e2e35.jpg20191106221256_1.thumb.jpg.9a07d78f425aa6cf835fba8fdc64e868.jpg

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1 hour ago, dpt8544 said:

Why is there that gap in the continental qualification in 10th place?

20191106221631_1.thumb.jpg.6825b292ce9e33ad414a90b8fcebf14b.jpg

This is a known issue.  Check again in the full FM release.  Thanks.

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Hi, I wanted to report that I would have to create a new National Cup, Trofeo de Campeones who play the Super League champion vs the Super League cup champion  in neutral stadium at the end of the year

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofeo_de_Campeones_de_la_Superliga_2018-19

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hace 2 horas, DJ RODRI dijo:

Hi, I wanted to report that I would have to create a new National Cup, Trofeo de Campeones who play the Super League champion vs the Super League cup champion  in neutral stadium at the end of the year

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofeo_de_Campeones_de_la_Superliga_2018-19

There's no need. We already created it. It last 3 years and then dissapears

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There's and error in Supercopa Argentina record... appears Rosario (Nothern Ireland (?????) ...

Sin título

There's no stadium for 2017/18 (Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza) that is also the final of 2016/17  not San Miguel.
The stadium of 2011/12 is Bicentenario Catamarca, San Fernando del Valle

The stadium of the Copa Argentina final between Rosario Central vs Gimnasia is also Mendoza instead San Miguel

Sin título2

The stadium of Arsenal vs San Lorenzo is Bicentenario Catamarca, San Fernando del Valle
The stadium of Boca vs Atlanta is El Gasometro, Buenos Aires ... replaced by possibly the new San Lorenzo stadium 

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17 hours ago, ucdark said:

There's and error in Supercopa Argentina record... appears Rosario (Nothern Ireland (?????) ...

Sin título

There's no stadium for 2017/18 (Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza) that is also the final of 2016/17  not San Miguel.
The stadium of 2011/12 is Bicentenario Catamarca, San Fernando del Valle

The stadium of the Copa Argentina final between Rosario Central vs Gimnasia is also Mendoza instead San Miguel

Sin título2

The stadium of Arsenal vs San Lorenzo is Bicentenario Catamarca, San Fernando del Valle
The stadium of Boca vs Atlanta is El Gasometro, Buenos Aires ... replaced by possibly the new San Lorenzo stadium 

Thank you for these :) 

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IMG_20191111_233523681.thumb.jpg.6fc4f7dd31f2d17a0470e0e9b11e6552.jpg

Hello, I wanted to report an error that I am not sure if it goes here or to that of South America, in the draw of the Libertadores 2020 it appears as it is marked in the image San Martin Tucuman, without being classified in any way, since it is in the National B and in the Argentine Cup I stay out quickly, I don't know if it's a mistake from Argentina but I wanted to let you know .

 

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10 hours ago, DJ RODRI said:

IMG_20191111_233523681.thumb.jpg.6fc4f7dd31f2d17a0470e0e9b11e6552.jpg

Hello, I wanted to report an error that I am not sure if it goes here or to that of South America, in the draw of the Libertadores 2020 it appears as it is marked in the image San Martin Tucuman, without being classified in any way, since it is in the National B and in the Argentine Cup I stay out quickly, I don't know if it's a mistake from Argentina but I wanted to let you know .

 

Don't fully understand what you mean, but if the issue you are reporting is that San Martin (T) are in the 2020 Copa Libertadores, then this is a known issue that we have already looked at ahead of the full release.

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4 hours ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Don't fully understand what you mean, but if the issue you are reporting is that San Martin (T) are in the 2020 Copa Libertadores, then this is a known issue that we have already looked at ahead of the full release.

Yes, exactly

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Hi, I'd like to report a mistake. In the Primera Nacional (Argentina's Second Division) only two players can be added to the "summer window".
In my game I was able to add 4 players (two buys and two free) and a friend added 6.

5226C529-5E53-4D91-873D-A48F7CE9A2F7.thumb.JPG.8b716439703679ffabff7ace18ca1bda.JPG08e6c8e0-2ac2-45e6-847b-fca68a7d0b6b.thumb.JPG.aedb16213e7a594acae5162707e32b67.JPG

I reviewed the championship rules and it says this: 

ABA1A92E-5FB5-4BD2-ACA8-325F5D9B2546.thumb.JPG.9df5a22800fc5888223c5e6c52441fa0.JPG

Another mistake I want to report is that it is wrong to close incorporations, in the game says September 14 when it is really August 15.

I leave the official rules of the tournament, https://www.afa.com.ar/upload/torneo/5673-REGLAMENTO 1ra. Nac. 19-20.pdf

 

I hope it can be sorted out, thank you very much.

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San Martin (Tucumán) still continues to qualify for the Copa Libertadores or Copa Sudamericana for no reason. We reported it from the alpha phase and it continues to happen.

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8 hours ago, joaquin87 said:

San Martin (Tucumán) still continues to qualify for the Copa Libertadores or Copa Sudamericana for no reason. We reported it from the alpha phase and it continues to happen.

Hi, this has been fixed in our internal builds and should be fixed in the steam public build too.  Have you definitely updated in steam to the latest FM20 code and is this happening in a newly created game?

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On 13/11/2019 at 11:12, andresg.golds said:

Hi, I'd like to report a mistake. In the Primera Nacional (Argentina's Second Division) only two players can be added to the "summer window".
In my game I was able to add 4 players (two buys and two free) and a friend added 6.

5226C529-5E53-4D91-873D-A48F7CE9A2F7.thumb.JPG.8b716439703679ffabff7ace18ca1bda.JPG08e6c8e0-2ac2-45e6-847b-fca68a7d0b6b.thumb.JPG.aedb16213e7a594acae5162707e32b67.JPG

I reviewed the championship rules and it says this: 

ABA1A92E-5FB5-4BD2-ACA8-325F5D9B2546.thumb.JPG.9df5a22800fc5888223c5e6c52441fa0.JPG

Another mistake I want to report is that it is wrong to close incorporations, in the game says September 14 when it is really August 15.

I leave the official rules of the tournament, https://www.afa.com.ar/upload/torneo/5673-REGLAMENTO 1ra. Nac. 19-20.pdf

 

I hope it can be sorted out, thank you very much.

Thanks both of these have been looked at by coders and a fix will be present in a future update.

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San Martin (Tucuman) still qualifies to Copa Libertadores group stage in the final game.

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20 hours ago, wawsaki said:

San Martin (Tucuman) still qualifies to Copa Libertadores group stage in the final game.

We found an issue where in the first season it is fixed, but if you use the 2020 start date it is incorrect. It's something we are aware of. 

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11 minutes ago, wawsaki said:

It happens always when i start at 2019

Can you send a screenshot of the screen when you click FM menu > Game Status please?  

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hace 47 minutos, Dan Ormsby dijo:

Can you send a screenshot of the screen when you click FM menu > Game Status please?  

image.thumb.png.492a0a838f51d01a768a54341efa23d2.png

I also encountered some bugs in the editor. valid years option doesn't work, regional divisions limits doesn't work, when you select minimum number of teams the option gets duplicated.

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43 minutes ago, wawsaki said:

image.thumb.png.492a0a838f51d01a768a54341efa23d2.png

I also encountered some bugs in the editor. valid years option doesn't work, regional divisions limits doesn't work, when you select minimum number of teams the option gets duplicated.

Thanks, I have passed on this information to the coder.  This is not reproducing at all in our internal builds.  Please log any editor issues in the editor forum.  Thanks.

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Is it correct that in the 2022/23 season that the Argentine Primera will revert to a 'normal' relegation format?

Ive noticed that the league is dropping a team year by year, so now I have 21 teams but its the bottom 3 that will go down and not based on Average Points?

Also where do you find who and how qualifies for Continental competitions, I cant see it in the league rules or anywhere. Thanks.

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On 24/12/2019 at 21:48, bestbrother said:

Is it correct that in the 2022/23 season that the Argentine Primera will revert to a 'normal' relegation format?

Ive noticed that the league is dropping a team year by year, so now I have 21 teams but its the bottom 3 that will go down and not based on Average Points?

Also where do you find who and how qualifies for Continental competitions, I cant see it in the league rules or anywhere. Thanks.

Yes I believe that is the correct change that they are looking to implement. 

Do you have a save game for the Continental section I can look at? I don't have a save game in Argentina that far in the future to look at. Thanks. 

 

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Argentina league also have the problem with minimum wages, we can't offer contracts less than 100 pounds/week, unless the player is already in and it is a renew

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With the new version, again the error of the number of teams appears in the 20/21 season. They have to be 23 teams in that season, so last season in the second category they had to ascend two teams, but in reality they rose 3 in the game, so there are 24 teams again.
 And in the matter of the First Division descents, the average points of the Super League Cup are not yet counted, they descend before this cup is disputed. Another mistake that still persists. :herman:

superligarcha.png

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22 minutes ago, Gastofm said:

With the new version, again the error of the number of teams appears in the 20/21 season. They have to be 23 teams in that season, so last season in the second category they had to ascend two teams, but in reality they rose 3 in the game, so there are 24 teams again.
 And in the matter of the First Division descents, the average points of the Super League Cup are not yet counted, they descend before this cup is disputed. Another mistake that still persists. :herman:

superligarcha.png

Again in the 2021/22 Season the number of teams is not reduced, there are still 24. In reality there should already be 22 teams.

superligarcah2.png

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On ‎25‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 23:00, Gastofm said:

Again in the 2021/22 Season the number of teams is not reduced, there are still 24. In reality there should already be 22 teams.

superligarcah2.png

Neither of these issues you have reported are happening in our regular builds.  There are 24 teams in 2019/20, 23 teams in 2020/21 and 22 teams in 2021/22.  Are you using editor files or third party content?

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On 27/2/2020 at 8:55, Dan Ormsby said:

Ninguno de estos problemas que ha informado están sucediendo en nuestras versiones regulares. Hay 24 equipos en 2019/20, 23 equipos en 2020/21 y 22 equipos en 2021/22. ¿Estás utilizando archivos de editor o contenido de terceros?

Try if it was some of the files I have, and you're right. I was wrong, I thought it was an error of the base and in fact it is an error of a file that I put in a game.

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Posted (edited)

Hi, i was playing in the Argentinian league.  It starts with 24 teams and the number drops till it gets to 20 teams. The first 3 seasons work great. The problem is when the league reaches 21 teams. At that point the average points are gone and the relegation works like an european league. The problem is that the rules are not well configurated and it doesnt say which teams qualify to the international competition. So when the season ends (it ends in july), when you wait till january for the libertadores and the sudamericana, random teams get picked to play them. I was looking at it with the editor and i think it has to do with the rules to qualify to international competion are set by the "tabla global" i think it translates to the global table. But the global table doesnt exist at that point anymore so it doesnt show the rules. But i just my guess i dont really know how to use the editor.  I uploaded a game file called "Superliga Argentina". It is set at january following the "21 teams season". If u check the league qualification and the teams qualified for the internationals competition they dont match. 

 

Thanks! 

 

Gamefile "Superliga Argentina"

Edited by Pepe Mario
be more clear

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Posted (edited)

Hi, sorry to bother, i follow the other comment.

I simulated a save without any edition files to see if it was a problem of one of them and i put only with the argentina league. The 2021/2022 season  (the 22 teams season) its the first one without any rules of cup qualification. So the season ends on july 2022, and the teams from the first place to the twelve place should qualify to an international competition (it depends on the winner of the libertadores , the sudamerica and the copa argentina, but its almost all of them). The problem is that when it reaches the international cups in janaury 2023, other teams qualify. I think (but im not completly sure, i should try another simulation) that the teams that are qualifying are the ones who are from the first place to the twelve place as in january 2023  + the cup champion  and the international cup winners (it would be at half the season as the season starts on july 2022 and finishes on july 2023), completly ignoring the results of the last season. This completly destroys the argentina league, as you can do a great tournament and finish in the first places and if you dont have a great start at the start of the next season you dont qualify to anything. Please tell me if you need another savefile, i can make another one without any edition files and send it to you.

 

Thanks in advance, hope this gets solved, as an argentinian is really sad not being able to play your league :c.

Edited by Pepe Mario
To be more clear :)

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On 10/05/2020 at 21:36, Pepe Mario said:

Hi, sorry to bother, i follow the other comment.

I simulated a save without any edition files to see if it was a problem of one of them and i put only with the argentina league. The 2021/2022 season  (the 22 teams season) its the first one without any rules of cup qualification. So the season ends on july 2022, and the teams from the first place to the twelve place should qualify to an international competition (it depends on the winner of the libertadores , the sudamerica and the copa argentina, but its almost all of them). The problem is that when it reaches the international cups in janaury 2023, other teams qualify. I think (but im not completly sure, i should try another simulation) that the teams that are qualifying are the ones who are from the first place to the twelve place as in january 2023  + the cup champion  and the international cup winners (it would be at half the season as the season starts on july 2022 and finishes on july 2023), completly ignoring the results of the last season. This completly destroys the argentina league, as you can do a great tournament and finish in the first places and if you dont have a great start at the start of the next season you dont qualify to anything. Please tell me if you need another savefile, i can make another one without any edition files and send it to you.

 

Thanks in advance, hope this gets solved, as an argentinian is really sad not being able to play your league :c.

Hi there, yes please can you upload a save file to our cloud service showing this issue?  One from before the season update day where this happens for the first time would be most helpful.  Thanks!

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Here you go, its called "Superliga argentina final". It is set a few days before the start of the 2021/2022 season.

Thanks!

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20 hours ago, Pepe Mario said:

Here you go, its called "Superliga argentina final". It is set a few days before the start of the 2021/2022 season.

Thanks!

We looked into this and could not reproduce this. Are you running the most recent version of the game? Either way, we will continue to keep an eye on this to see if it happens again.

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Hi! Yes it says 20.4.1 version on the save information and it says that it has 0 changes on the database, its weird. It couldn't be reproduced on the save or in another testing? 

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Well, i will try to explain myself the best i can with images, i think it will help. This is from the same save "Superliga Argentina". I uploaded 7 images. One its the rules from the 2021-2022 season taken on the first of june 2022. As you can see there are no rules to cup qualification. Then we have the final positions of the 2021-2022, also taken the first of june, as you can see there are no colours saying who qualifies to what. Then we have the table qualifications (of the 2022-2023) and the cup qualifications taken the 10 of january 2023. There are a few teams that shouldnt be qualifying to some competitions. Racing shouldnt be qualifying to the libertadores instead of Estudiantes. And talleres and atletico shouldnt be qualifying at the sudamericana, it should be All boys and banfield. I also uploaded the copa argentina, libertadores and sudamericana to show that it shouldnt affect any of it. 

 

I dont think it has to do with my game, as the same thing happened in the first version (i thought it was because of an edition file at the moment) and i have a friend that sent me his save (he was playing in 20.3 i think) and the same thing happened to him.  Also as you can see the save says its 20.4.1 and it has 0 changes to the database.

 

Nevertheless i will unistall the game and try again, but please check it out. 

Sorry to bother, thank you for answering me

Pepe

PD: I will upload the new version as "Superliga CQ"

copa argentina.png

copa libertadores.png

copa sudamericana.png

cup qualifications 10 january 2023.png

rules 1 jun 2022.png

table 1 jun 2022.png

table 10 january 2023.png

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Hi, im sorry, but i didnt get any answer, its this getting looked on? I reinstalled the game and everything and it still happens. Also this is not the first time that it is reported that the league rules of cup qualification arent there, so it has been happening for a long time.

On 24/12/2019 at 18:48, bestbrother said:

Is it correct that in the 2022/23 season that the Argentine Primera will revert to a 'normal' relegation format?

Ive noticed that the league is dropping a team year by year, so now I have 21 teams but its the bottom 3 that will go down and not based on Average Points?

Also where do you find who and how qualifies for Continental competitions, I cant see it in the league rules or anywhere. Thanks.

 

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3 minutes ago, Pepe Mario said:

Hi, im sorry, but i didnt get any answer, its this getting looked on? I reinstalled the game and everything and it still happens. Also this is not the first time that it is reported that the league rules of cup qualification arent there, so it has been happening for a long time.

 

They probably wont be patching that in this years game now mate. If they can fix it, expect a change in the next version.

Maybe there is an Argentinian League mod out there to download that may resolve this?

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7 minutes ago, bestbrother said:

They probably wont be patching that in this years game now mate. If they can fix it, expect a change in the next version.

Maybe there is an Argentinian League mod out there to download that may resolve this?

There are some Argentinian league mods are out there but they change a lot of rules (the argentinian league has a complicated format) so im a little skeptical of using them because it can break. 

If this doesn´t get patch in this version it would be a shame, but well what can we do. The problem is that they say they couldnt reproduce it, so im trying to show that there is a problem that does happen everytime with a clean database, so they can fix it in this years version or for the next one. 

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2 hours ago, Pepe Mario said:

There are some Argentinian league mods are out there but they change a lot of rules (the argentinian league has a complicated format) so im a little skeptical of using them because it can break. 

If this doesn´t get patch in this version it would be a shame, but well what can we do. The problem is that they say they couldnt reproduce it, so im trying to show that there is a problem that does happen everytime with a clean database, so they can fix it in this years version or for the next one. 

We implemented a very complicated series of changes for Argentina for FM20 which were extensively tested.  In our internal builds we can't seem to reproduce this issue.  If there are problems with the live version of the game that are happening every time from the latest official DB with no edited files or third party content then we apologise and will make sure we look into this in detail for the next version.  

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28 minutes ago, Dan Ormsby said:

We implemented a very complicated series of changes for Argentina for FM20 which were extensively tested.  In our internal builds we can't seem to reproduce this issue.  If there are problems with the live version of the game that are happening every time from the latest official DB with no edited files or third party content then we apologise and will make sure we look into this in detail for the next version.  

Yeah, i know its a mess, we stop having la copa de la superliga, we stop having average table, its never the same each year so a lot of things could be affecting it. I just wanted to make sure as i didn't get an answer that i was clear at showing what was going wrong and when it was going wrong (as shown by the pictures, as the argentina league changes every year and it could get affected at any time) and show that i didn't have any edited files or third party content at all (as shown by the information save tab that i sent). 

Thanks anyways, thanks for answering !

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1 hour ago, Pepe Mario said:

Yeah, i know its a mess, we stop having la copa de la superliga, we stop having average table, its never the same each year so a lot of things could be affecting it. I just wanted to make sure as i didn't get an answer that i was clear at showing what was going wrong and when it was going wrong (as shown by the pictures, as the argentina league changes every year and it could get affected at any time) and show that i didn't have any edited files or third party content at all (as shown by the information save tab that i sent). 

Thanks anyways, thanks for answering !

Hi Pepe, you sent me the savegame to analyze, I'll give it a look and have it logged in the backend for further analysis with the team.

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9 minutes ago, keyzerFAQ said:

Hi Pepe, you sent me the savegame to analyze, I'll give it a look and have it logged in the backend for further analysis with the team.

Thanks!

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@Pepe Mario Having exactly the same issue. 

I finished 8th in the 2021/22 season and was expecting to be in the 2023 Sudamericana. 

The teams that qualified for the 2023 Sudamericana from Argentina in 2021/22 finished in 5th, 12th 14th, 16th, 18th and there was even one from the division below!

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Sorry if this isn't the type of issue you're looking for, but I've tried to do a few saves in Argentina and the board's "Club Vision" gives me an incredibly short leash. For example, in my current save I manage Newell's Old Boys. The board wants a mid table finish. We're only seven matches into the season, I sit at 7th (well above the middle of the table, which is 12th in this 24-club league) and the board is "disappointed" in my league position and therefor my management of the club. I fear that if I do not start getting results soon, I'll be forced out of the club. This has happened to me before, in a previous save managing Belgrano in the 2nd division, I had to save-scum results to avoid getting sacked despite that fact that my season's goal was to challenge for promotion, I sat first in my group table, but hit a losing streak and began jockeying position with the second and third place club. Mind you, the top FOUR positions in the 2nd division ALL compete in a playoff for promotion. In another save, I started at a lowly 2nd division club that had just wanted to avoid relegation (to avoid my experiences with my save managing Belgrano previously mentioned). After a few successful seasons and one promotion via playoffs later, I got a job managing Penarol in Uruguay and the club vision bug was even worse. I'll spare the details because, again, I'm sure this is the proper place, but I was fired after 45 days following the signing of a two year contract to manage the club. I took them from 10th to 4th and lost one match in that time, drawing two. I literally couldn't believe the board called me into a meeting to discuss my future and they said that there was no excuses for why we "struggled" (please see: going from 10th to 4th) and sacked me.

 

Please fix this. Its incredibly frustrating and disheartening. I just want to enjoy the game, but for some reason no club in Argentina wants me to unless they're in the complete dumpster and I drag them kicking and screaming into the top division. (this goes without saying the dismal financial problems that plague the league, which also makes the "work within payroll budget" thing difficult and can result in unfair judgement/sackings but that's, again, a different post for a different section of this forum.

I enjoy football manager and have for a few years now, which is why this "club vision" "feature" has me so irritated. Finding yourself 7th when the media predicted you 11th after 7 matches is not grounds for firing. My proposal would be to "turn off" the "judgement" of the board until your first six months are over. But unfortunately, I am not the ideas-man at SI, so hopefully this reaches them.

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On 17/07/2020 at 22:55, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

Sorry if this isn't the type of issue you're looking for, but I've tried to do a few saves in Argentina and the board's "Club Vision" gives me an incredibly short leash.

Hi there, this isn't the right area of the forum for this but I'm sorry you have experienced these issues.  We do have something logged in our system regarding club vision issues in Argentina but your passionate example will be helpful in getting this prioritised, especially if you provide a save with an example of this happening.  Please post something similar, ideally with a save uploaded to our cloud service, on this forum https://community.sigames.com/forum/745-club-vision-and-performance/

Thanks!

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Hi, there is a little problem with the disciplinary rules of the Copa de la Superliga. When one of my players gets a yellow card suspension/red card suspension, they can just play the next match in the Copa de la Superliga, but the first match of the regular competition of the new season all these players are suspended. If neccesary, I can send my save file.

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