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[England Premier Division] Data Issues


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On 05/11/2019 at 21:59, norwich1982 said:

Norwich City - nor sure if my earlier post about Stuart Webber was picked up, that he should be DOF not Technical Director - although maybe could have that as a secondary job.

https://www.canaries.co.uk/first-team-squad/Football-Staff/

The above states he looks after all aspects of player recruitment hence DOF although his offical role is Sporting Director

 

I would also second this

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7 hours ago, Cal585 said:

Thank you to all the researchers for your hard work!

After seeing some criticism repeated around, I decided to simulate the first few seasons on full detail several times to see if I noticed it happening myself. A couple of quick points that I've seen others mention on this thread:

Man United do tend to start competing for titles very quickly (premier and champions league). However, they seem to be true to form in the 1st season. I think the problem is more that in the game, they have some good players and are just missing a few key ingredients that they are more than willing to splash the cash to get (buying 200 mill and spending 50 mill). This 200 mill is on top of their tendency to sign Milik in the 1st season and James Rodriguez on a free at the end. When you add the likes of another quality striker and cb to partner Maguire on top of that, they've got a good spine. Whether United in real life will spend the money to rebuild the team is up for debate. I've seen Arsenal do well as well for a random season but they seem to be more inconsistent so no issues there.

Moise Keane, while having received a large stat boost doesn't seem to run away with any scoring records. I think the issue is more that he tends to be the 1st choice striker where he has struggled to get into the team in real life. But he generally seems to score about 10-15 goals a season which doesn't feel unreasonable.

I think this a point that often gets overlooked with United - in terms of quality it’s not a horrible squad, it’s just horribly unbalanced and those in charge of transfers have done a horrible job of managing that. I’ve tried to do as best as possible to reflect the squad’s weaknesses (others’ views will differ obviously) but what’s very hard - if not impossible - to do is reflect the boardroom/recruitment mess. It’s obvious to anyone that we needed a central midfielder or three this summer and it didn’t happen, but there’s unfortunately no tick box option for ‘will ignore glaring hole in squad’ so the AI will obviously improve things.

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A few data issues iv noticed in the Newcastle squad not sure if it effects other players elsewhere.

Days to gain nationality in England is 1825 (continuously) 

                                                 

Deandre Yedlin, joined spurs in 14/15 has been in England ever since  days completed 1629
Ki sung yeung joined Swansea 12/13 has been in England ever since     days completed 358 

 Federico Fernandez joined Swansea 14/15 has been in England ever since Days completed 319

Both Ki and Fernandez have clearly been in England more than the days stated. 

Edited by azmundo
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On 10/11/2019 at 13:49, Daniel__Mellors said:

I register players but it says that I didn’t and the player gets angry and wants to leave 

That's not a data issue. You need to log it as a bug - https://community.sigames.com/forum/716-dynamics-interaction-and-playing-time/.

You'll need to provide a lot more information, though.

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Axel Tuanzebes determination is just incredible low. He certainly deserves more than a 4 here. OGS speaks about him as a future captain and a guy who works hard every day etc. This just seems like a mistake which haven’t been updated since the last versions.

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1 hour ago, AlexBr89 said:

Axel Tuanzebes determination is just incredible low. He certainly deserves more than a 4 here. OGS speaks about him as a future captain and a guy who works hard every day etc. This just seems like a mistake which haven’t been updated since the last versions.

Agreed. Marcos Rojo with determination of 9 is very odd IMO aswell.

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I have been going through all the premier league player stats, and I noticed that Firmino's finishing was 13! 

That puts him in the bottom 5 strikers in the league for finishing, no idea what is going on there but that cannot be right.

not only this, but various other players attributes are well off from what they should be, kean with 18 finishing? pogba still has ridiculous attributes after underwhelming seasons?

Is there an editor available yet so we can correct these horrendous stat mistakes, <editing out insults>.

 

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9 minutes ago, A_Rhodes said:

I have been going through all the premier league player stats, and I noticed that Firmino's finishing was 13! 

That puts him in the bottom 5 strikers in the league for finishing, no idea what is going on there but that cannot be right.

not only this, but various other players attributes are well off from what they should be, kean with 18 finishing? pogba still has ridiculous attributes after underwhelming seasons?

Is there an editor available yet so we can correct these horrendous stat mistakes, <editing out insults>.

 

The editor will be available upon release. If you feel there are issues with the data, then raise your concerns constructively. Making accusations of bias and hyperbole aren't going to get you anywhere.

There are many others things aside from the finishing stat that will affect a player's ability to score goals. Things like off the ball, composure for example will come into play. How does he actually function in the match engine for you? Is he scoring 20 goals a season or 2? If he's not performing, is your tactic allowing him to get into the positions to regularly score goals etc? If he's getting into the positions, is he scoring 1/4 chances or 1/20? How does that stack up with his real life finishing stats? If it's 1 in 20 then yes, there might be an issue with his finishing attribute that'll need to be looked at.

There's a lot more to it than "OMG this stat isn't high enough". 

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8 minutes ago, A_Rhodes said:

I have been going through all the premier league player stats, and I noticed that Firmino's finishing was 13! 

That puts him in the bottom 5 strikers in the league for finishing, no idea what is going on there but that cannot be right.

not only this, but various other players attributes are well off from what they should be, kean with 18 finishing? pogba still has ridiculous attributes after underwhelming seasons?

Is there an editor available yet so we can correct these horrendous stat mistakes, <editing out insults>.

A few pointers...

Read the first post in the thread.

Good to see that you had the common sense to delete the pointless and inaccurate insult - 'typical SI bias' :seagull:

If I was bias as the Liverpool researcher then Firmino would be 20/20 for finishing.

Scoring isn't down to just the Finishing attribute. Scoring is a combination of a number of attributes, ie Composure, Off The Ball, Technique etc

Firmino on average scores roughly 1 in 3/4 games in real life (3 in 12 league games this season), unfortunately in the Alpha he was scoring significantly too many times in the soak tests. He is a bit of a one-off striker (can't think of any like him in the game) and the key has been to try and get him to be realistic in the game with goals, assists, pressing, coming deep, winning the ball etc. Now the Beta is out he has been playing a lot more realistically and goalscoring in particular is much more accurate in the tests that I've done so far. I have asked for his Finishing to go back up to 14.

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Hi there I've just noticed how low the majority of Adama Traore's attributes are. Quite understandable given his patchy form last season but i think his output in the last 3/4 months since our season started back in July might warrant an evaluation. 

Some attributes in particular which seem harsh to me:

Crossing 9 - He's laid on several assists from crosses this season and has been regularly putting in dangerous crosses either floated or across the ground. I would think maybe a 12 for this stat. 

Dribbling 17 - sounds a bit daft but genuinely think this is low and should be 19. Beating players for fun this season. 10 successful dribbles vs villa. 

Finishing 7 - 2 tidy finishes against city which are his only 2 goals but would possibly move up to a 9.

Marking 4 - has played as wing back this season at times and has looked capable at the least. Marked sterling out of the game against City before moving up front. His positional sense seems to have vastly improved during preseason. Arguably warrants at least a 7or 8.

Passing 10 - has rarely misplaced passes this season, perhaps an 11 or 12.

Tackling 5 - similar to marking, has been successful in most tackle attempts ive seen this season, at least at 8.

Composure, concentration and decisions 8 - have all markedly improved this season. He seems to be far more confident in his decision making in all areas of the pitch and is picking the right passes at the right moments often. 10-11s 

Positioning 5 - vastly improved defensively this season

Teamwork 9 - he wouldnt get into a Nuno team without teamwork as its the essence of how we play. 12

Agility 15 - he is able to start, stop and change direction in an instant at various speeds, hes very rarely going full speed anyway. 17

Overall he just seems a much better player than his attributes depict  which is really underwhelming as I would like him to be a big part of my wolves save this season, however there's no chance he could be at present which i dont think reflects the real life situation at wolves. 

Massive thanks for all the hard work either way, loving the game in general so far. 

 

Edited by HM308
Misunderstanding of the positioning attribute
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Bias isn't simply wanting to give players 20s everywhere. What a ridiculous argument to make.

We're all biased with regards our clubs and players in some way or another. It's impossible to be completely impartial and objective when we don't watch every player in every game in the world, and it's a subjective rating system and our impression of what good/bad/ugly ratings are in game are going to be different based on the levels we've played. But we have head researchers and guidelines to keep us in line and correct things when it turns out Barca are buying our bottom end PL centre half, and feedback like these threads is important to think about.

We can aim for honest assessments, but unbiased is a pipe dream.

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9 minutes ago, HM308 said:

Positioning 5 - creates space intelligently down our right flank with Doherty. Has often taken up positions to get the ball into the box or to take his man on and i would say warrants a decent increase to a 9 or 10.

 

Positioning is a defensive positioning attribute only. 

Edited by swansongs
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A couple of staff responsibility changes for Newcastle Utd

Newcastle Staff Responsibilities

General

Recruit Staff

Hiring & Firing Head of Youth Development - change to Lee Charnley
Hiring & Firing Technical Director - change to Joe Joyce (if not able to Lee Charnley)
Hiring & Firing Loan Manager - change to Ben Dawson
Hiring & Firing U23 Manager - change to Ben Dawson
Hiring & Firing U18 Manager - change to Ben Dawson

Coaching Courses

Decide which Newcastle Utd staff should undertake courses - change to Steve Bruce (Dawson is not involved in 1st team)
Decide which Newcastle Utd U23 staff should undertake courses - keep as Ben Dawson
Decide which Newcastle Utd U18 staff should undertake courses - keep as Ben Dawson

Staff Contract Renewals

Renewing Director of Football Contract - change to Lee Charnley
Renewing Technical Director Contract - change to Lee Charnley
Renewing Loan Manager Contract - change to Ben Dawson
Renewing Head of Youth Development Contract - change to Lee Charnley
Renewing U23 Manager Contract - change to Ben Dawson
Renewing U18 Manager Contract - change to Ben Dawson

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3 hours ago, HM308 said:

Hi there I've just noticed how low the majority of Adama Traore's attributes are. Quite understandable given his patchy form last season but i think his output in the last 3/4 months since our season started back in July might warrant an evaluation. 

Some attributes in particular which seem harsh to me:

Crossing 9 - He's laid on several assists from crosses this season and has been regularly putting in dangerous crosses either floated or across the ground. I would think maybe a 12 for this stat. 

Dribbling 17 - sounds a bit daft but genuinely think this is low and should be 19. Beating players for fun this season. 10 successful dribbles vs villa. 

Finishing 7 - 2 tidy finishes against city which are his only 2 goals but would possibly move up to a 9.

Marking 4 - has played as wing back this season at times and has looked capable at the least. Marked sterling out of the game against City before moving up front. His positional sense seems to have vastly improved during preseason. Arguably warrants at least a 7or 8.

Passing 10 - has rarely misplaced passes this season, perhaps an 11 or 12.

Tackling 5 - similar to marking, has been successful in most tackle attempts ive seen this season, at least at 8.

Composure, concentration and decisions 8 - have all markedly improved this season. He seems to be far more confident in his decision making in all areas of the pitch and is picking the right passes at the right moments often. 10-11s 

Positioning 5 - creates space intelligently down our right flank with Doherty. Has often taken up positions to get the ball into the box or to take his man on and i would say warrants a decent increase to a 9 or 10.

Teamwork 9 - he wouldnt get into a Nuno team without teamwork as its the essence of how we play. 12

Agility 15 - he is able to start, stop and change direction in an instant at various speeds, hes very rarely going full speed anyway. 17

Overall he just seems a much better player than his attributes depict  which is really underwhelming as I would like him to be a big part of my wolves save this season, however there's no chance he could be at present which i dont think reflects the real life situation at wolves. 

Massive thanks for all the hard work either way, loving the game in general so far. 

 

Thanks very much. It's something I'm hoping to get sorted for full release.

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11 hours ago, AlexBr89 said:

Axel Tuanzebes determination is just incredible low. He certainly deserves more than a 4 here. OGS speaks about him as a future captain and a guy who works hard every day etc. This just seems like a mistake which haven’t been updated since the last versions.

I pointed this out earlier in the thread - the problem isn't that his DET is 4, it's that his DET has no set value so it's randomly generated (I tried 2 games, his DET was 4 in the first and 19 in the second).

IMO, he's too old and has too much game experience in the Championship for this to be the same. Honestly, he's the same player he was in FM19 - it seems like neither the Man Utd researcher nor the Aston Villa researcher updated him.

Edited by cwc1
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9 hours ago, cwc1 said:

I pointed this out earlier in the thread - the problem isn't that his DET is 4, it's that his DET has no set value so it's randomly generated (I tried 2 games, his DET was 4 in the first and 19 in the second).

IMO, he's too old and has too much game experience in the Championship for this to be the same. Honestly, he's the same player he was in FM19 - it seems like neither the Man Utd researcher nor the Aston Villa researcher updated him.

The determination needs looking at I agree, but that last statement I can assure you is nonsense on both counts and not really helpful. 

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22 hours ago, A_Rhodes said:

I have been going through all the premier league player stats, and I noticed that Firmino's finishing was 13! 

That puts him in the bottom 5 strikers in the league for finishing, no idea what is going on there but that cannot be right.

not only this, but various other players attributes are well off from what they should be, kean with 18 finishing? pogba still has ridiculous attributes after underwhelming seasons?

Is there an editor available yet so we can correct these horrendous stat mistakes, <editing out insults>.

Pogba does have incredible natural talents irl, though. He's just been playing terribly.

22 hours ago, A_Rhodes said:

 

 

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On 11/11/2019 at 18:49, diddydaddydoddy said:

A few pointers...

Read the first post in the thread.

Good to see that you had the common sense to delete the pointless and inaccurate insult - 'typical SI bias' :seagull:

If I was bias as the Liverpool researcher then Firmino would be 20/20 for finishing.

Scoring isn't down to just the Finishing attribute. Scoring is a combination of a number of attributes, ie Composure, Off The Ball, Technique etc

Firmino on average scores roughly 1 in 3/4 games in real life (3 in 12 league games this season), unfortunately in the Alpha he was scoring significantly too many times in the soak tests. He is a bit of a one-off striker (can't think of any like him in the game) and the key has been to try and get him to be realistic in the game with goals, assists, pressing, coming deep, winning the ball etc. Now the Beta is out he has been playing a lot more realistically and goalscoring in particular is much more accurate in the tests that I've done so far. I have asked for his Finishing to go back up to 14.

I think Firmino should have at least 15. Again I always compare with other players of the game.  If Mane has 17 and Son has 16 I would say Firmino should definitely be on a 15. Especially if Dybala has 15 as well. I'd actually say Firmino is a better finisher then Dybala but if they both had 15 I wouldn't argue.

Probably what's happening is that the AI is playing Firmino as an attacking role and getting loads of goals out of him whereas IRL he plays a deeper role. Maybe if you set Klopp to favour a DLF role he wouldn't score as much.

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11 hours ago, Nick OGS20 said:

The determination needs looking at I agree, but that last statement I can assure you is nonsense on both counts and not really helpful. 

What about Rojo? I would at least like to know why has his determination been dropped to 9 which seems very low. I thought he's always playing with very big heart and willpower. Always rallying the troops (and in general has played very well this autumn). I'd probably add the trait "dives into tackles" aswell for Rojo. Also he probably shouldn't be transfer listed at the start of the game -- yeah they were negotiating about selling or loaning him away but lately there have been strong reports that Man Utd has decided not to sell Rojo after his impressive appearances.

Also regarding United, not that big issue but still: I think Lingard should have United as his favourite team (supporter) as he has many times being fan of the club and you can find pictures of him wearing United gear even before joining the academy at very young age...

NINTCHDBPICT000415999087.jpg

Thanks for your work :-)

Edited by v.d.Moon
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On 04/11/2019 at 06:31, tv_capper said:

Southampton

Iain Brunnschweiler is missing as an academy coach at Southampton - (Joined on June 4th)

He states he works with all ages up to and including U23's so should be added to the DB

“On a given day I might be travelling up to Man Utd with the U23's on the coach."

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/cricket/hampshire_cricket/17682145.ex-hants-cricketer-iain-brunnschweiler-is-back-at-southampton-fc/

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/iain-brunnschweiler-451044a2

Just checking to make sure this hasn't been missed as no one's commented about it

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Adding to Keane and Greenwood, another youngster who seems a little over done on currently ability/attributes is Bukayo Saka at Arsenal, the guy only has 12 senior appearances IRL and 1 goal IIRC, but in game Arsenal play him as a first teamer pretty much straight away and he has attributes of a good PL player.

Again I have nothing against these players being very good prospects, but they start the game better than established PL players which I find a bit odd. 

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16 hours ago, Justified said:

I think Firmino should have at least 15. Again I always compare with other players of the game.  If Mane has 17 and Son has 16 I would say Firmino should definitely be on a 15. Especially if Dybala has 15 as well. I'd actually say Firmino is a better finisher then Dybala but if they both had 15 I wouldn't argue.

Probably what's happening is that the AI is playing Firmino as an attacking role and getting loads of goals out of him whereas IRL he plays a deeper role. Maybe if you set Klopp to favour a DLF role he wouldn't score as much.

As mentioned previously Finishing attribute in its own right doesn't equate to goals scored. I would argue that Son has a similar scoring record to Firmino so maybe Son's Finishing is too high? How do his other scoring attributes fair?

From what I understand in the Alpha, the IFs were just not playing correctly, getting into the box, shooting etc - combined with the central striker over performing instead.

Edited by diddydaddydoddy
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Perhaps this was already raised, but since when is it part of Chelsea's club culture to play possession & attacking football? Same for Bournemouth btw. In addition, is it part of Burnley's club culture to play defensive football, or is this just a preference of Sean Dyche? I feel in some situations there are some misunderstandings between club culture and manager preferences. You can argue for example that for a club like Barcelona or Ajax it is, no matter who the manager is, part of their club culture to play attacking and possession based football. For a club like Chelsea however this is not the case, even though Lampard is currently aiming to play that way. It's quite important to get this right as managers get judged on this, and you will get situations where a managers gets sacked even though performing well, simply because his style of play was in contrast with the club culture. 

Lastly, concerning Liverpool. Why is Fabinho rated so high on penalty taking (15)? I am actually aware he is good at this as he was Monaco's penalty taker for almost two seasons, but I don't feel he should be the second best penalty taker in the squad. Currently he is rated higher than Salah (14) in this aspect. I feel 12 or 13 would be more suitable for Fabinho, where Salah could have perhaps 15. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Cedrik said:

Lastly, concerning Liverpool. Why is Fabinho rated so high on penalty taking (15)? I am actually aware he is good at this as he was Monaco's penalty taker for almost two seasons, but I don't feel he should be the second best penalty taker in the squad. Currently he is rated higher than Salah (14) in this aspect. I feel 12 or 13 would be more suitable for Fabinho, where Salah could have perhaps 15. 

You will also note that I have decreased Fabinho's Penalty Taking attribute (although that's not say he isn't still that good at taking penalties) as he has other attributes that needed increasing. Conversely Salah's has increased since last season.

Edited by diddydaddydoddy
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There are several things that are not working for me on the beta version of FM20. 

 

1. Names of several clubs appears strangely different. I noticed on youtube other users do not have this issue. Juventus is shown as "Zebre", Atletic Bilbao is Atletico Pamplona, etc.

2. "Create new assignment" option is missing in Scouting options. 

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7 minutes ago, Murari said:

There are several things that are not working for me on the beta version of FM20. 

 

1. Names of several clubs appears strangely different. I noticed on youtube other users do not have this issue. Juventus is shown as "Zebre", Atletic Bilbao is Atletico Pamplona, etc.

2. "Create new assignment" option is missing in Scouting options. 

1. is due to licensing

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On 05/11/2019 at 19:19, thegreatlebzby said:

On the game, BRANDON WILLIAMS (Manchester United defender) is 171cm tall. I am positive this is incorrect. By simply watching the games, he is evidently far taller. He is AT LEAST the same height as Mason Greenwood, who is 181cm on the game.

On Wikipedia, BRANDON WILLIAMS is listed at 183cm tall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Williams_(footballer)

I sincerely hope this can be fixed. Thank you :)

Screenshot 2019-11-05 at 19.03.18.png

Just bringing this to attention again lol. I feel like he's a player a lot of people will want to use when managing United. Hopefully his height gets fixed - it's an important attribute

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I feel there's some big mistakes with the Burnley squad.

First is Dwight McNeil. His crossing attribute is poor yet it's the strongest part of his game. Likewise free kicks and corners are too low. He plays CM, RM and LM naturally for his club yet in the game only AML and STC is natural.

Second is Ashley Westwood and corner taking, it should be a lot higher.

Third is Nick Pope. An England international with only 10 determination? Butland has low determination too for some reason.

Fourth Erik Pieters, 4 crossing is not accurate at all.

Fifth is overall team work rate, heading and positioning. Teamwork is rated high in the squad yet a team that is famously structured, hard working, maintains shape and plays for set pieces is graced with unrepresented attributes.

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16 hours ago, Cedrik said:

is it part of Burnley's club culture to play defensive football, or is this just a preference of Sean Dyche? I feel in some situations there are some misunderstandings between club culture and manager preferences. 

This is so true. It's definitely a Sean Dyche influence at Burnley. Historically and culturally Burnley have always played (or tried to) play attacking, entertaining football.

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Not sure if it's already been brought up but Angel Gomes is a lot smaller than he is IRL.

According to transfermarkt, Angel Gomes is 1.68m 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.za/angel-gomes/profil/spieler/392770

 

On FM, he's around 1.60m.

Edited by SlickJames
Another user had already brought up Brandon Williams' height
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1 hour ago, Deano565 said:

It's transfermarkt that has it wrong. He's tiny. 

Indeed, he is small but he's grown over the last three years to around 1.68m/5'6". He is listed as being around this height in both FIFA and PES.

Juan Mata is 1.71m and I've attached a picture of them standing together. The difference appears to be closer to 5cm than 15cm.

079c41510793b41d8ae4dc1abb50c5f4.jpg

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7 hours ago, Diegotimmy said:

Third is Nick Pope. An England international with only 10 determination? Butland has low determination too for some reason.

10 isn't a bad rating at all.

Butland's is justifiably low(ish).

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1 hour ago, swansongs said:

10 isn't a bad rating at all.

Butland's is justifiably low(ish).

It's bad for this level. Due to the changes in mental development it means it drags down the average of your team. Jack Cork with 18 determination and Nick Pope with 10? Doesn't make sense at all. Determination of all the players starting for Burnley shouldn't be this low.

Butland is a very good goalkeeper in the game still, if his determination is low because of relegation so should his other attributes.

Gomes is 168cm if you believe https://www.premierleague.com/players/14830/Angel-Gomes/overview

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I would imagine Butland's low determination has more to do with the nature of his performances since relegation than the relegation itself. It's not a "how good they are" attribute, it's a measure of response to competitive adversity. Butland is a player who will often follow one mistake or concession with another.

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12 hours ago, Diegotimmy said:

Fourth Erik Pieters, 4 crossing is not accurate at all.

That's going to be a legacy of his Stoke days. In his final 18-24 months with the club (prior to his loan to France) his crossing was generally atrocious. It just nosedived off a cliff edge.

When it comes to Jack Butland, Determination is an attribute that shows a players fight/resolve when things are going poorly. He hasn't particularly displayed such great qualities on that front, his attributes are lower than his premier league days but believe it or not rather than just arbitrarily cleaving his CA to reflect it the same can be achieved with mental attributes. 

The whole point is you're supposed to look at Butland and think he's a good player, but there should be something that just feels a little off. Because he is a good a keeper, and yet every time he plays there just seems to be something a bit off with him.

Players don't have to fit in these nice bands of expectations though. A Premier League footballer isn't automatically a determination of X+ because they're a premier league player. It would be rather a bland game if all players of a certain level just had to fit in with this vague expectation of attribute bands for a La Liga Forward or a Premier League Defender etc. It might come across as harsh, but the fact that Pope plays for England means absolutely nothing as an argument for what his determination ought to be. 

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Great work on the Liverpool stats. Just spotted that Trent has his left foot down as "weak". I've noticed that he has started to use his left foot more frequently if it is quicker or more opportune to do so to get the ball into the box or cross-field. Case in point - his switch of play to Robertson against City on Sunday before the Salah goal. Suggest that his left foot rating is increased please.

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1 minute ago, jimlad said:

Great work on the Liverpool stats. Just spotted that Trent has his left foot down as "weak". I've noticed that he has started to use his left foot more frequently if it is quicker or more opportune to do so to get the ball into the box or cross-field. Case in point - his switch of play to Robertson against City on Sunday before the Salah goal. Suggest that his left foot rating is increased please.

His left foot rating is 8/20 which is ok/decent. He predominately uses his right foot. Man City aside I've not seen him use his left foot for too many cross field passes.

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