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[England EFL Championship] Data Issues

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Please post any data issues related to England EFL Championship here.

As much of the data is subjective we’d ask that you respect everyone’s opinion and accept that the final decision is that of our club researchers and our heads of research.          

We also request you please adhere to the following three point plan when posting in the data topics:

·        State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data.              

·        State what you think the data should be.                            

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements.                         

Please note that any non-data issues for England EFL Championship should be posted in the appropriate thread within the League Specific Issues Forum. This would include issues such as league scheduling and league rules.

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I don't think this is the place to put it but I didn't know where to put it but Bobby Decordova-Reid of Fulham has 2 Jamaica caps and 1 goal, the game still identifies him as English

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1 minute ago, Dragocen said:

I don't think this is the place to put it but I didn't know where to put it but Bobby Decordova-Reid of Fulham has 2 Jamaica caps and 1 goal, the game still identifies him as English

His apps were after 'national datalock' (in his case he was capped in september) so won't be in the game but they should change declared nation to Jamaica I think.

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Also Some loans missed with Bristol City;

Louis Britton (Bristol City U18s) and Bradley Webb are now on loan at Yate Town - Proof

Saikou Janneh (Bristol Citys Under 23s) is now at Torquay United on loan (was only done the other day) - Proof

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8 minutes ago, Dragocen said:

Also Some loans missed with Bristol City;

Louis Britton (Bristol City U18s) and Bradley Webb are now on loan at Yate Town - Proof

Saikou Janneh (Bristol Citys Under 23s) is now at Torquay United on loan (was only done the other day) - Proof

I believe those are short terms loans so we wouldn't expect those to be in FM:

 

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It says that Kenneth Zahore is out for West Brom with a calf strain for 6-7 months! I believe he has only been out for 3-4 weeks and is back playing for under West Brom's 23s this week

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1 hour ago, Dragocen said:

Also Some loans missed with Bristol City;

Louis Britton (Bristol City U18s) and Bradley Webb are now on loan at Yate Town - Proof

Saikou Janneh (Bristol Citys Under 23s) is now at Torquay United on loan (was only done the other day) - Proof

They don’t include short term loans, of which all are

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34 minutes ago, beastmaster3000 said:

It says that Kenneth Zahore is out for West Brom with a calf strain for 6-7 months! I believe he has only been out for 3-4 weeks and is back playing for under West Brom's 23s this week

Yes he played for the under 23's on Monday and even scored 2 goals so he is definitely not out for 7 months

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Ahh, an injury from last season for Zohore has an end date of December 2019 instead of December 2018. I have fixed that now for the release version of the game, due out next month.

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2 hours ago, Dragocen said:

I don't think this is the place to put it but I didn't know where to put it but Bobby Decordova-Reid of Fulham has 2 Jamaica caps and 1 goal, the game still identifies him as English

Sorry for having missed this - it's been updated for the release version of the game. His caps will not be set until next year 9they occurred this season) but he's been set as Jamaican first nationality (declared) now..

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Bristol City:


Definitely think there should be some clauses added from the Kelly sell to Bournmouth. Local press has the at 13m initial rising to 21m but ingame there are no clauses at all. Would expect a sell on clause in there too.

 https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/revealed-huge-record-fee-bournemouth-3073712

No injury to Benik Afobe. Not sure what the rules are on this as it was sustained during the season but he's done his ACL and will probably be out until April.

Surprised to see Eliasson's crossing has gone down from 15 to 13. 

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Could we perhaps mandate in the initial post that anyone posting a data suggestion prefixes it with the team name? 

I have no idea who decided it would be a good idea to mash the club threads into one single thread per league, but I can tell you it will be far harder for club researchers to sift through to find suggestions for their individual teams. It's a woeful decision. 

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Just now, Kaje said:

Could we perhaps mandate in the initial post that anyone posting a data suggestion prefixes it with the team name? 

I have no idea who decided it would be a good idea to mash the club threads into one single thread per league, but I can tell you it will be far harder for club researchers to sift through to find suggestions for their individual teams. It's a woeful decision. 

Most of the EFL threads last season were practically empty. Wait to skim through the half dozen pages in January if it feels like too much effort.

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47 minutes ago, Barnzy said:

Also Bristol City - Jay Dasilva, out for 6-9 months according to the game. In reality he's out for up to 5 months.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/recovery-milestone-for-smith/

 

Also Sam Pearson is on a season long loan to Bath

https://www.bathcityfc.com/player/sam-pearson/

 

 

 

DaSilva is set to be out from 10/08/2019 until 01/01/2019 in the game - a period of four-five months from the date of the injury, a date that fits with that news story. With FM starting a month earlier than his injury, that looks to be "six" months. I suspect it's a case of the media item options being restricted for injuries of six months or so, to be listed as "six to nine months".

When does DaSilva actually return in your game?

https://www.bathcityfc.com/player-news-49/ - Pearson's loan didn't start until after the August window closed, so isn't included.

 

 

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1 hour ago, GriffiN94 said:

Bristol City:


Definitely think there should be some clauses added from the Kelly sell to Bournmouth. Local press has the at 13m initial rising to 21m but ingame there are no clauses at all. Would expect a sell on clause in there too.

 https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/revealed-huge-record-fee-bournemouth-3073712

No injury to Benik Afobe. Not sure what the rules are on this as it was sustained during the season but he's done his ACL and will probably be out until April.

Surprised to see Eliasson's crossing has gone down from 15 to 13. 

Kelly - that's a pretty poor article on Bristol Live there. No detail at all. If you are aware of any clauses, please do let us know and we'll consider them.

Afobe - injured in September. We don't include those.

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Jarrod Bowen is reported as 'being fairly susceptible to injury'. His real life injury record does not warrant this report i believe.

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12 minutes ago, hotdog44 said:

Jarrod Bowen is reported as 'being fairly susceptible to injury'. His real life injury record does not warrant this report i believe.

His Injury Proneness attribute is actually blank. Which I hadn't noticed. So you must be being unlucky and getting him randomised as injury prone.

I'll discuss this with the researcher and we'll agree on a low score for that attribute. Thanks for reporting it.

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Reading FC

 

Dean Gorre - Manager of Suriname - https://twitter.com/deangorre?lang=en

Carl Delplanque - Scout at Norwich - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-delplanque-48306982/?originalSubdomain=fr

Leigertwood - Loan Manager at Reading FC - https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/mikele-leigertwood-from-qpr-and-reading-to-the-managerial-world-where-are-they-now/

 

 

Edited by Readingfanman

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Just a small issue, however, on the completion of the Ovie Ejaria transfer to Reading on deadline day in the summer the midfielder agreed to join a Reading on a permanent deal at the end of the loan for a fee of £3.5m in the summer.

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Massive Leeds & Championship fan so hope you'll find anything I highlight pretty spot on.

Championship:

West Brom have the option to sign Matheus Pereira (On Loan from Sporting) for £8.25m. https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/august/pereira-signs-for-the-baggies/

Kyle Bartley has an ability of 2.5* and under reports is labelled 'Leading player for most League 1 sides', which is pretty insulting given they sit top of the Championship currently with him at centre back.

Michael Hector is not joining Fulham until January.

Richard Keogh's contract has been terminated at Derby County. No doubt you'll already have this in the update, but considered it worth mentioning. 

Leeds United

Carlos Corberan is both a coach & our U23 manager

Although Kalvin Phillips is down as a natural in CM and DM, his role suitability is notably lower in the DM role, despite all of his success coming from this position. The heat map and points made in this article highlight this: https://totalfootballanalysis.com/player-analysis/kalvin-phillips-leeds-tactical-analysis-statistics

Gaetano Berardi is down as a No-Nonsense Full Back and only 'Competent' at Centre Back, yet he is our 3rd choice centre back and is at the very least accomplished in that position. He kept Pontus Jansson out of the team at the start if last season because he was considered better on the ball playing out from centre back, and recorded a 83% pass success rate (99th in the whole division): https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/7379/Stages/17369/PlayerStatistics/England-Championship-2018-2019. So the notion he is no-nonsense full back is highly inaccurate, and his ability to play centre back ought to be changed. 

As for U23s. Jamie Shackleton is 'ineffectual' at AM, but he has come through the academy as a central midfielder, predominantly a number 10. Robbie Gotts is a CM (currently competent) captaining our U23 side, and Kun Temenzhukov operates behind the striker (ineffectual) as a number 10. Difficult to find articles on these given they are in the U23s side, but hopefully you will have a Leeds fan who aids data gathering to confirm.

Edited by AStack99

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yeah, Richard Keogh is both uninjured and still at Derby currently, I understand he only recently got released so obviously that couldnt have been fixed yet, but yeah was surprised to see him with the ability to walk and play football 

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1 hour ago, jacklackenby said:

yeah, Richard Keogh is both uninjured and still at Derby currently, I understand he only recently got released so obviously that couldnt have been fixed yet, but yeah was surprised to see him with the ability to walk and play football 

 

2 hours ago, AStack99 said:

Richard Keogh's contract has been terminated at Derby County. No doubt you'll already have this in the update, but considered it worth mentioning. 

Keogh’s injury occurred after the injury cut-off date which is why he is still ‘walking and playing’.

As you say his contract was only terminated two days ago, although he is due to appeal that. I am currently discussing the Richard Keogh situation with my Head Researcher.

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8 hours ago, Readingfanman said:

More on Reading

The Assistant Manager should be Eddie Niedzwiecki (announced 17th October 2019 three days after Mark Bowen was appointed) as Jorge Mendonca left along with Jose Gomes on 9th October 2019.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/who-eddie-niedzwiecki-lowdown-reading-17081245

Michael Olise is subjectively the leading light amongst the youth players and should be in the U23 squad or potentially even first team squad.

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A few for Nottingham Forest if you can take a look at please:

Alexander Milosevic has left Nottingham Forest https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/news/2019/october/alex-milosevic-departs-the-reds/

Tobias Figueiredo is not transfer listed.

Joao Carvalho is back from injury

Ben Watson is not transfer listed

Edited by bezzy1970

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Just a few more bits about Fulham:

Fulham have option to buy all their loanees (source: Fulham official site) which is missing with Harry Arter and Harrison Reed.

Stefan Johansen is a different player in a real life relative to the game. He is more of a tireless box-to-box midfielder than a deep-lying playmaker. His pace and acceleration (which is very low in the game) should be improved. On the other hand lower his technique and passing (which are equal as Tom Cairney`s in the database while Cairney is a much more technical player). In my humble opinion, his pace and acc should be around 13 mark,  technique and passing around 13.

Edited by Velibor

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11 hours ago, Readingfanman said:

We updated the Reading backroom staff a week or so ago, sadly too late for the BETA database but those changes will be included in the RELEASE database.

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10 hours ago, James2310 said:

Just a small issue, however, on the completion of the Ovie Ejaria transfer to Reading on deadline day in the summer the midfielder agreed to join a Reading on a permanent deal at the end of the loan for a fee of £3.5m in the summer.

Thanks - this has been updated for the RELEASE version of the database.

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Bristol City

A question about the variance in reported injury time, Adam Nagy is listed as 2-4 months I believe, he played for Hungary in the September international break which is where he was then out further. 2 months would sounds right for the injury but how likely is the possibility he'd be out for 4 months? As it would be well beyond when he should have returned if injuries are not added after September starts 

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Thanks hodge13. I'll just delete the injury for now for the RELEASE version of the database.

The length of time an injury is reported to rule a player out for - that represents the expected extremes for recovery for that injury type. Usually a player will recover at the lower end of the range.

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Some Birmingham City issues for you:

Birmingham City pay Aston Villa £150k after Dan Crowley makes 10 appearances, but we bought him from Willem II, and they bought him from Arsenal. Makes no sense that we have to pay Villa? IxslOke.png

Also, so far this season in real life, Crowley has mainly played on the wing - as has Fran Villalba. However Villalba doesn't have any knowledge of playing on the wings, and I think this is a little unfair seeing as he has been playing very well this season in this position. Kristian Pedersen also has no knowledge of playing at DC despite him playing there multiple times for us over the last couple seasons.

Edited by John_Yuki

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Crowley - that is due to the EPPP Youth Compensation clause from his time at Villa, where he was taken by Arsenal. Villa are compensated for losing him via EPPP.

Villalba - fair point that. Have added the wide positions to his profile for the Release version of the database.

Pedersen - added ability to play DC

Thanks for your post.

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Leeds United issues

I thought that Ivan Bravo had left the club.

Is the Leeds sponsorship correct? one deal for the away kit only?

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Nathan Ferguson - his main position on the game is a CB, but has since transitioned to a RB so his position on the game needs updating

Matheus Pereira - he doesn't have a clause where if West Bromwich Albion play him for a certain amount of games and also get promoted have an option to by him which is believed to be around £9million so this needs to be added if possible

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Nathan Ferguson (West Bromwich Albion) - his main position on the game is a CB, but has since transitioned to a RB so his position on the game needs updating, although as well he has been fitting in at LB too while players are out injured so technically he should be LB/RB

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State what you think is specifically wrong with a particular piece of data: Fulham's stadium increase completes on the 1st July 2019     

·        State what you think the data should be: The expansion of the Riverside stand is expected to take two years to complete and the and the agreement was only signed with contractors on the 22nd may 2019

·        State reasons/proof for your suggested corrections/improvements:      https://www.fulhamfc.com/stadium-development

Edited by JRDqq

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12 hours ago, bezzy1970 said:

A few for Nottingham Forest if you can take a look at please:

Alexander Milosevic has left Nottingham Forest https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/news/2019/october/alex-milosevic-departs-the-reds/

Tobias Figueiredo is not transfer listed.

Joao Carvalho is back from injury

Ben Watson is not transfer listed

We've already got all of these in. We're trying to work other stuff out as well, but I don't know how late we're going with datalock.

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Few observations for Reading FC...

U18 Coach/Loan Manager - Mikele Leigertwood
https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2016/july/welcome-back-ledge/
https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2019/july/nicky-shorey-returns-in-academy-lead-scout-role-for-royals/ - "Mikele Leigertwood continues in his role as Professional Development Phase Coach"

Future transfer agreement in place - Ovie Ejaria
Unsure of the future fee agreed, or whether the deal is signed or something the club can trigger at the end of the season
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/359739-ovie-ejaria-liverpool-reading-move-confirmed
https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2019/august/ejaria-returns-to-the-royals-on-loan/

U23 Assistant - Mehmet Ali
https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2019/july/nicky-shorey-returns-in-academy-lead-scout-role-for-royals/ - "We are also delighted to welcome Mehmet Ali to Reading Football Club - he joins us to take the position of Under-23s Assistant Coach and will work alongside Scott Marshall this season."

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20 hours ago, AStack99 said:

Carlos Corberan is both a coach & our U23 manager

I believe this should have been reflected in the data. If it is not, will chase up :thup:

20 hours ago, AStack99 said:

Although Kalvin Phillips is down as a natural in CM and DM, his role suitability is notably lower in the DM role, despite all of his success coming from this position. The heat map and points made in this article highlight this: https://totalfootballanalysis.com/player-analysis/kalvin-phillips-leeds-tactical-analysis-statistics

This is intentional. Despite performing excellently at DM (which is down to Bielsa as much as it is his affinity with the role), that won't undo a decade of playing MC. He's natural at both, but he has spent far longer as a MC than DM. Also worth noting I try to give players only one "20" rated position in my research, so in Kalvin's case that went to MC rather than DM.

20 hours ago, AStack99 said:

Gaetano Berardi is down as a No-Nonsense Full Back and only 'Competent' at Centre Back, yet he is our 3rd choice centre back and is at the very least accomplished in that position. He kept Pontus Jansson out of the team at the start if last season because he was considered better on the ball playing out from centre back, and recorded a 83% pass success rate (99th in the whole division): https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/7379/Stages/17369/PlayerStatistics/England-Championship-2018-2019. So the notion he is no-nonsense full back is highly inaccurate, and his ability to play centre back ought to be changed. 

No-Nonesense Full back is a role rather than position. This just means his attributes are most suited to that role when playing at full back, which I would say is realistic.

Competent means a player is competent in a position, which I would argue Berardi is at DC. He is not Accomplished there for me as he only plays there as cover and before Bielsa (and the style of football he has brought) would not have been considered too seriously for the position. Other teams will not be looking to sign him as a DC. Him keeping Pontus out of the side is a bit of a red herring as Pontus was returning from injury. Whilst Berardi did keep his spot over Jansson for some time after Pontus' return to fitness this did not continue indefinitely and we all know how infrequently Bielsa changes his XI.

His passing success rate is down to Bielsa and the style of football we play, not because he is a particularly excellent ball-playing centre back, he is adept but nothing more. 83% puts him about middle for our squad. Considering the fact that a lot of this comes from playing DC, where passes are amongst the most frequent and safest, is not impressive relative to the rest of the squad. He is behind both the other DCs in this stat. As such, I do not agree that this is highly inaccurate.

20 hours ago, AStack99 said:

As for U23s. Jamie Shackleton is 'ineffectual' at AM, but he has come through the academy as a central midfielder, predominantly a number 10. Robbie Gotts is a CM (currently competent) captaining our U23 side, and Kun Temenzhukov operates behind the striker (ineffectual) as a number 10. Difficult to find articles on these given they are in the U23s side, but hopefully you will have a Leeds fan who aids data gathering to confirm.

In my experience Shack played predominantly from the middle looking forwards rather than behind a striker. Will review.

Robbie Gotts has a number of positions, he's played predominantly wider, but is competent in the middle.

Kun has spent the vast majority of his time up front, but agreed he has moved to the Bielsa 10 role, similar to Tyler Roberts, so will look to update.

Cheers.

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U23s Manager is Graeme Lee and Danny Schofield is Assistant. Data Analysts also wrong as Gareth Carr, Jamie Bettson and George Foster-Vigors left a while ago and Curtis Quinn and Jacob Blain are now working for the club in this role.

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10 hours ago, Gripper said:

Crowley - that is due to the EPPP Youth Compensation clause from his time at Villa, where he was taken by Arsenal. Villa are compensated for losing him via EPPP.

Villalba - fair point that. Have added the wide positions to his profile for the Release version of the database.

Pedersen - added ability to play DC

Thanks for your post.

Another thing I just noticed. Jude Bellingham is 5 ft 6 in-game, but he is actually 180cm - 5 ft 11.

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1 hour ago, Eindhoven06 said:

U23s Manager is Graeme Lee and Danny Schofield is Assistant. Data Analysts also wrong as Gareth Carr, Jamie Bettson and George Foster-Vigors left a while ago and Curtis Quinn and Jacob Blain are now working for the club in this role.

Thanks.

Lee and Schofield have been updated since data lock for BETA version of the database,. so will appear in the RELEASE version of the database.

Data analysts. I have looked for info on Carr, Bettson and found nothing. Can you show me something as proof that they have left please?

I see Foster-Vigors has moved on and have updated his profile.

Quinn and Blain added for the release.
 

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Bellingham's height was randomised, but since beta data lock was recorded as "average". Your mention of 5 ft 11 is the first time I have seen his height in print, can you link me to where that detail is stored, please?

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3 minutes ago, Gripper said:

Bellingham's height was randomised, but since beta data lock was recorded as "average". Your mention of 5 ft 11 is the first time I have seen his height in print, can you link me to where that detail is stored, please?

Transfermarkt has him as 180cm: https://www.transfermarkt.com/jude-bellingham/profil/spieler/581678

You can also look at any highlights on the Birmingham City youtube channel and see how tall he is to those around him, and easily see he is a lot taller than 5ft6, unless all of our team are around 5ft6 also...

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Yes, I did say it was randomised, so may be 5'6" in your beta and 6'7" in someone else's. Once again, this is the BETA of FM2020 you are looking at. The beta of FM2020 is a Work In Progress and NOT the finished version of the game, including data.

Looking at highlights can give a vague indication of a player's height, hence recording him as "average" (ie 5'8 to 5'11) in the database (as mentioned above, after the database was extracted for the beta) once we had established a vague height. No official height for the player has been listed by his club.

I'd be keen to see some other official recording of his height, because transfermarkt is not always reliable for heights.
 

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Harry Boyes (Sheffield United U23) has incorrect DOB. Listed as 27/04/01 when it is 02/11/01

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11 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

I believe this should have been reflected in the data. If it is not, will chase up :thup:

This is intentional. Despite performing excellently at DM (which is down to Bielsa as much as it is his affinity with the role), that won't undo a decade of playing MC. He's natural at both, but he has spent far longer as a MC than DM. Also worth noting I try to give players only one "20" rated position in my research, so in Kalvin's case that went to MC rather than DM.

No-Nonesense Full back is a role rather than position. This just means his attributes are most suited to that role when playing at full back, which I would say is realistic.

Competent means a player is competent in a position, which I would argue Berardi is at DC. He is not Accomplished there for me as he only plays there as cover and before Bielsa (and the style of football he has brought) would not have been considered too seriously for the position. Other teams will not be looking to sign him as a DC. Him keeping Pontus out of the side is a bit of a red herring as Pontus was returning from injury. Whilst Berardi did keep his spot over Jansson for some time after Pontus' return to fitness this did not continue indefinitely and we all know how infrequently Bielsa changes his XI.

His passing success rate is down to Bielsa and the style of football we play, not because he is a particularly excellent ball-playing centre back, he is adept but nothing more. 83% puts him about middle for our squad. Considering the fact that a lot of this comes from playing DC, where passes are amongst the most frequent and safest, is not impressive relative to the rest of the squad. He is behind both the other DCs in this stat. As such, I do not agree that this is highly inaccurate.

In my experience Shack played predominantly from the middle looking forwards rather than behind a striker. Will review.

Robbie Gotts has a number of positions, he's played predominantly wider, but is competent in the middle.

Kun has spent the vast majority of his time up front, but agreed he has moved to the Bielsa 10 role, similar to Tyler Roberts, so will look to update.

Cheers.

Yep before last season Phillips predominantly played as a central midfielder with a brief stint as a #10 under Christiansen. 

I wouldn't say Berardi only plays as a central defender now as cover. Bielsa does not see him as a wing back and whilst he only started at centre back last season ahead of Jansson because of Jansson's suspension he stayed in the team ahead of Jansson until he got injured. He was also preferred to Jansson in the playoff semi final second leg. That said competent is probably right for him.

Yep, Shackleton played as a central midfielder pushing forward rather than a 10.

Gotts primary position now is a central midfielder but he has played quite a few times at right back and on the wing.

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23 minutes ago, Sunshinelufc said:

Yep before last season Phillips predominantly played as a central midfielder with a brief stint as a #10 under Christiansen. 

I wouldn't say Berardi only plays as a central defender now as cover. Bielsa does not see him as a wing back and whilst he only started at centre back last season ahead of Jansson because of Jansson's suspension he stayed in the team ahead of Jansson until he got injured. He was also preferred to Jansson in the playoff semi final second leg. That said competent is probably right for him.

Yep, Shackleton played as a central midfielder pushing forward rather than a 10.

Gotts primary position now is a central midfielder but he has played quite a few times at right back and on the wing.

Sounds like we mostly agree. Will review. Gonna be watching Berardi's passing today at ER closely ;) Let me know if you come across anything else :thup:

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13 hours ago, robterrace said:

We've already got all of these in. We're trying to work other stuff out as well, but I don't know how late we're going with datalock.

Also Michael Dawson is not transfer listed in real life. Thanks

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