Diamond thoughts

[tusina]

What do you think about diamond 4-4-2? I like to play it and seems to yeild very good results if you're the dominant team in your league (had decent success with it as RB salzburg and Sogndal), but it always feels like something in missing. It seems to work nicely for fast, direct and hard pressing game in which everyones first idea is to get the ball to forwards asap. If i try to morph it into more controlled, more fluid tactic i tend to create visually very nice plays but it's not very effective, i usually end up with a lot of crosses and long shots. Increasing tempo, directness or mentality seems to fix this but also leads to problems with counter attacks and wasted chances. Actually i often seem to end up with a tactic that essentially bypasses the midfield in the build up but still wins. Here are some questions i've been thinking about:

How do you set your attacking width in a diamond?

Do you use really attacking fullbacks?

Do you think playmaker fits into the system?

Is the system best utilised with more of a direct style?

Is hard pressing the only way to make it defensively solid?

 

Thanks for anyone paying attention to this ramble!

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, tusina said:

What do you think about diamond 4-4-2?

I use this formation with Man Utd and I am pleased with how it works for me (for the time being). 

 

2 hours ago, tusina said:

How do you set your attacking width in a diamond?

I play on Positive mentality and my width is default (which on positive is labeled "fairly wide"). 

 

2 hours ago, tusina said:

Do you use really attacking fullbacks?

Both my first-choice FBs - Mbabu and Shaw - like to get forward whenever possible. Since I use a mezzala on support in MCL (Pogba), my LB plays in a more conservative role than the RB (who has a BWM, DLP or CAR in front of him, depending on whom I play there in a given match and how tough the opposition is). 

 

3 hours ago, tusina said:

Do you think playmaker fits into the system?

Why not? I sometimes use Mata as a TQ (AMC) or Fred/Herrera as a DLP on support (MCR). 

 

3 hours ago, tusina said:

Is the system best utilised with more of a direct style?

I personally play shorter passing and default tempo (under the Positive mentality) in most cases. I may occasionally up the tempo a notch (to higher), and that's it when it comes to the passing style. Can it be played with a more direct passing? I don't see a reason why not. However, a higher mentality already makes the passing (slightly) more "direct" in the sense that players are encouraged to move the ball forward with a bit more urgency than on lower mentalities. 

 

3 hours ago, tusina said:

Is hard pressing the only way to make it defensively solid?

I use default pressing (which is "slightly more urgent" under the positive mentality) in combination with higher DL and higher or standard LOE (plus the split-press, except against tough opposition). 

[Piperita]

 

4 hours ago, tusina said:

How do you set your attacking width in a diamond?

Normally I leave it as is. Exceptions being: If I am playing more counter-y it goes wider and whenever I am the far better team I go narrower because I have a fetish for central play.

4 hours ago, tusina said:

Do you use really attacking fullbacks?

Depends. Currently I use FBa/s and WBd/au(with 'holds position') so pretty conservative roles all things considered. Reasons being that I try to dictate the game in one area which creates pockets of space on the opposite end of the pitch. Works relatively well in test games but still needs some fine-tuning (and better players...)

But I also had some pretty good fun with the good old CWBs/CAR combination. And heavily PPMd IWB who cut in late into the box. And whatever the hell my APa played as FBs — coming deep, getting into area, playing one-two and killer balls, as well as dictating the tempo makes for a pretty interesting player. Right now I am trying out my CMa as well who has similar traits, just Forwards/Late instead of Deep/Area. 

4 hours ago, tusina said:

Do you think playmaker fits into the system?

If they fit into the overall concept, sure. In my Magath 442 I had an Enganche directing the counter-attacks for quite some success (except some long shots too many). Right now I am playing with a RGA *and* a DLPs who really know how to control the game in their pockets. But I also failed horribly with an AMC APa in a more possession-based formation and a Treq (both in AMC and ST) as focal point — the former had a too strong forward drive, creating empty holes between the lines, the latter either had too little space to roam (AMC) or was too glued to the ball. 

4 hours ago, tusina said:

Is the system best utilised with more of a direct style?

I had my best success with no speed or length set but with some deeper players instructed to act by themselves. Fullbacks who play it long (if really good flair/vision) or switch flanks, one(!) CM/DM who do likewise and dictate tempo, some strategically placed One-Twos. Thing is, long balls are amazing for counters in that formation but with some well-set movement there are nicely packed pockets that can be combined through as well. 

 

4 hours ago, tusina said:

Is hard pressing the only way to make it defensively solid?

Nope. Especially with a Halfback it is pretty solid by itself and essentially acts like an entirely different base. A higher line with offside trap, marked creative players and an aggressive DM (like BWMd) also works quite well.