RB Salzburg/4312/41212 help needed

[BrianBrobbey]

Hello guys,

 

Recently I've started a save with RB Salzburg where I'm trying to make a 442 Diamond work (Either, 4312 or 41212) since the team does not have enough wingers. However, I can't seem to make it work because I have never played without wingers before.  I've looked online and read articles on Marco Rose's 4312 system at Salzburg but had difficulties translating this into fm19. Does anybody have some tips on making a 4312 or a variation therefore work, or can someone who has played with Salzburg in a wingerless formation share some insights on their tactic with me? Also, the team is as it is and I haven't made any signings yet. 

 

This is what I've currently produced but I know it's far from functioning, especially regarding the roles. I don't know how to get them to create space in a cohesive matter and utilize it at the same time, while remaining somewhat solid at the back. The tactic I've put out resulted in a lot of draws, (0-0, 1-1, 2-2 mostly), also in a few wins but merely hard won 1-0's or 2-1's while most goals have come from standard situations or own goals. I do get a fair share of chances and tend to have the upper hand in possession but what's all that worth if I don't win convincingly. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by BrianBrobbey

[Experienced Defender]

I've analyzed your starting 11 here, and this is how I would set up a basic (primary) tactic for them:

Roles and duties

DLFsu         AF

AMat

DLPsu      MEZsu

DMde

WBsu      CDde      BPDde    FBsu

SKde

Players and player instructions

GK/SKde - Stankovic - no PIs

DL/WBsu - Ulmer - no PIs

DR/FBsu - Lainer - sit narrower

DCL/CDde - Ramalho - no PIs

DCR/BPDde - Pograncic - no PIs

DMde - Samassekou - mark tighter

MCL/DLPsu - Schlager - no PIs

MCR/MEZsu - Haidara - run wide with the ball, close down more (optional/occasional PI - take more risks)

AMC/AMat - Wolf - close down more

STCL/DLFsu - Dabbur - roam from position, stay wider, close down more

STCR/AF - Prevljak - close down more

Mentality - Positive

Team instructions

In possession - shorter passing, play out of defence, default tempo, overlap left, whipped crosses (optional/occasional instructions - be more expressive, work ball into box)

In transition - counter (optional/occasional instruction - counter-press)

Out of possession - higher DL, higher or standard LOE, default pressing, offside trap

If you have any questions as to why this role or why that instruction (and so on), please feel free to ask whatever you want 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Experienced Defender

[BrianBrobbey]

20 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

If you have any questions as to why this role or why that instruction (and so on), please feel free to ask whatever you want 

 

 

 

 

Wow, thanks I really appreciate this! Could you explain how the attacking threat combination in this tactic functions? And how the fullback and wingback relate in this tactic ? 

[yolixeya]

I have never played 4-3-1-2 but I have limited experience with 4-4-2 diamond narrow. On this save, first I played it with Belgium national team and I used to play it some kind of gegenpressing style, I pressed high played quicker tempo with anchorman and very attacking wingbacks. It was reasonably successful and got me to semi-final of European Chanpionship but it was very one-dimesional and all the goals were the same, usually a cross from wingback or sometimes they would score themselves. 

Last season with Milan i tried to move away from my tactic with wingers and try something different so I played 4-4-2 diamond narrow once again but differently this time. I played it more like Italians with slower tempo and I also didn't want it to be so dependant on wingbacks. After some experimenting it turned out to be very successful tactic for most of my Serie A matches in which I was a favourite and I would score 3-5 goals most of the time. What I liked the most that I've seen some goals actually go through the middle with some beautiful passing.

This is how my roles were set up.   

              PFa     CFsu

                    AMs

             Car        MezzAtt

                     DLPd

FBa        CBd         CBd       FBs

I played lower tempo, play out of defence, and also work ball into box, be more expressive. Those are the settings I remember. I also played with higher DL and higher LOE and couterpressing as I used this as my tactic where I expect to dominate. Somettimes I would chage it slightly during the match and play quicker depending on the match but mostly played patient and ball would circle from one FB trough central players to other FB until they find the breakthrough. There were still crosses but far less the with my setup with Belgium.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by yolixeya

[Experienced Defender]

10 hours ago, BrianBrobbey said:

Wow, thanks I really appreciate this!

Don't thank me until you see if the tactic works  I don't have any experience in the Austrian league, I only now that Salzburg is the strongest team there, so take my ideas with a pinch of salt. 

 

10 hours ago, BrianBrobbey said:

Could you explain how the attacking threat combination in this tactic functions? And how the fullback and wingback relate in this tactic ? 

Let's begin with the FBs/WBs, as they are very (if not the most) important in any narrow system. I set the RB to a pretty conservative role (FBsu) for two reasons: 

1. he has a mezzala - which is an attack-minded role even on support duty - in front of him, so I didn't want him to be overly adventurous and thus potentially leave the right flank too exposed defensively

2. because of Pograncic's poor tackling (only 10), I though it would be wise to have a more conservative FB next to him

On top of that, your RB (as well as LB) has the trait "Gets forward often", which will somewhat offset the "conservativeness" of the role. Lainer has pretty good attributes (including mentals), so he should be able to assess when it would be safe enough to get more forward and when not.

Now, given that the RB is more conservative because of the mezzala, the LB should be more attack-minded and adventurous, especially as the left CM is played in a holding role. I was initially tempted to set him to FB on attack duty, but then eventually decided to opt for WB on support. And again for 2 reasons:

1. FB on attack is hard-coded to cross a lot, so I wanted to avoid this (assuming that you also wouldn't want to rely on crosses too much, although crossing is a normal occurrence in narrow systems by default)

2. WB on support is still an attack-minded role, and in some aspects even more so than FB on attack, but is less inclined to cross (and the Overlap left is here precisely in order to encourage him to be more attack-minded by increasing his mentality)

However, the key change was that of formation - from 4312 to the narrow diamond. The reason - I wanted to offer more direct protection to your back-line in the form of a holding DM because of 2 major weaknesses:

1. Pograncic's (already mentioned) poor tackling

2. Ramalho's lack of speed

Actually, my biggest dilemma was how to set up the roles of the DM and left CM (as for Haidara, I immediately knew he should be a mezzala, so it was the easier part of the equation). My initial idea was this:

DLFsu      AF

AMat

CAR     MEZsu

DLPde

FBat      CD     BPD     FBsu

But Schalger's poor tackling meant playing him as a carrilero would not be a good idea. So I decided to give him a DLP role even though - and this is important - he is not an ideal choice for a PM, because some of the important attributes are rated pretty low (his off the ball is only 10, composure and decisons only 11). But sometimes you have to make a compromise, because rarely will everything be ideal. After all, he has very good passing, good enough vision and technical attributes and very good teamwork and anticipation. So - all in all - he should be able to cope with the role at the end of the day.

Attacking-wise, the most important tweak is the change of mentality from Balanced to Positive. Mentality is actually the most important instruction because when you change the mentality - you automatically change all other settings (including individual player mentalities) even if you haven't touched anything else. Therefore, on higher mentalities you need proportionally fewer attack duties and less aggressive instructions overall (both in and out of possession).

Finally, as you can see, I haven't made any changes to your striker roles because I like how you set them up - both in terms of the role combo and the players' suitability for their respective roles 

What I did change though is the role of your AMC (but not his duty). First, AP on attack duty is more suited to counter-attacking tactics. Which is okay in general, but given that Salzburg is a top team in Austria, playing on counter-attacks as the main strategy would make little (if any) sense, simply because you'll mostly face defensive opposition which is not going to leave you enough space for counters. Secondly, while Wolf is generally a decent player and very good talent, I don't think he is good enough to be a playmaker (of any type) at the moment. On top of that, there already is a playmaker (DLP) in your system, and having 2 PMs could be a bit of an overkill IMHO. As a standard AM on attack duty, he will both participate in your attacking build-ups and provide more penetration (owing to the attack duty) in the final third.

I hope this explanation was helpful 

 

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

Based on my recent experience playing a 4-3-1-2 I would suggest moving Dabbur to the AMC slot and playing Erling Håland as a TM-s with the instruction to move into channels in his stead.

Playing a target man helps you make the most of all the crosses that narrow formations naturally generate and having both strikers move into channels (which the AF does by default) will create space between them that the AMC can exploit.  Håland and Prevljak would both be playing on their natural side too, which means they will find more opportunities to cross the ball either to each other or the AMC marauding into the box in the space left between them.

Unlike Experienced Defender I would also advise you to keep the AMC as an AP-a, not so much to act as an actual playmaker, but because the ball-magnet effect of the role will give him more opportunities to exploit the space the tactical set up will provide him. If you do switch to an AM, make sure that you instruct him to get further forward (AP-a does this by default, AM-a does not).

This all would come at the expense of Hannes Wolf not getting any playing time, but unless you also manage Rasenballsport that really isn't your concern, given his arranged future transfer.