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How many people actually use attribute masking?

Do you use attribute masking?  

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  1. 1. Do you use attribute masking?

    • Yes
      272
    • No
      149


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Was wondering how many people actually use attribute masking. I'm looking at some streamers and I've noticed some of them don't use attribute masking, and, apparently, on some websites similar polls have shown that 70%+ of people are also in the same boat. I always thought this was one of the most popular settings to have turned on and I kind've always seen it as "easy mode" since you can easily see all players. What's your take on this ? Do you use attribute masking?

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7 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

Yes, I use attribute masking.  I don't see the issue with people choosing not to, though.  It's all personal choice.  :)

+1

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I don't, though it didn't make too much of a difference the one career I did accidentally have it on so I wouldn't mind it. It's not so much about scouting as just enjoying taking a look around sometimes.

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It's all personal choice but imo largely irrelevant because we still need to scout players properly in order to get a feel for their hidden attributes, which are every bit as important as the visible ones but remain hidden even with attribute masking off.

Attribute masking on or off doesn't tell us how professional a player might be, how consistent he is, injury proneness, whether he'll wilt under pressure, what his potential might be and so on.  The only way we can find those things out is through scouting, so if they have to be scouted anyway attribute masking becomes kind of irrelevant.

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3 hours ago, herne79 said:

It's all personal choice but imo largely irrelevant because we still need to scout players properly in order to get a feel for their hidden attributes, which are every bit as important as the visible ones but remain hidden even with attribute masking off.

Attribute masking on or off doesn't tell us how professional a player might be, how consistent he is, injury proneness, whether he'll wilt under pressure, what his potential might be and so on.  The only way we can find those things out is through scouting, so if they have to be scouted anyway attribute masking becomes kind of irrelevant.

Yes, I always scout myself (unless a player pops out out of the blue, but even then I'll often get a report.), so it's more about being able to freely look around (especially looking at the strength of potential opponents in cups) than as a way of making it easier to see what players are like.

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We have some people who find the game to easy , some people find the game to hard and some find it just right

When people ask for a difficulty selector when starting the game these in various guises already exist and attribute masking is one

I personally dont select it to make the game easier or harder as such, I like others choose this because its more realistic. How each person enjoys the game is down to them individually

 

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5 hours ago, herne79 said:

It's all personal choice but imo largely irrelevant because we still need to scout players properly in order to get a feel for their hidden attributes, which are every bit as important as the visible ones but remain hidden even with attribute masking off.

Well, there's quite a difference whether your scout sends you a fully completed Scout Report or a 30-40% revealed one. You can still get the feel for player's ability/potential (although there will be more black stars) and some hidden attributes and then it comes down to making a decision on whether to sign a player immediately, even though you don't know every little detail about him, or scouting him further/offering him a trial and risking potential bids from other clubs. I'm sure that clubs find themselves in that kind of situations all the time in real life.

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I never actually played with this option turned off. To me, especially when you're LLMing, it seems pointless to be able to see all players. While it's true that hidden attributes are still hidden being able to see exactly how good a player is technically and physically without scouting him makes it very easy to "game" the system. However, like I said, I've recently seen a lot of people playing LLM with this option turned off so I was wondering if I was missing out on something...

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When you setup your manager profile you have two attributes where you can give yourself between 1-20. These are player knowledge and young player knowledge. If you play with attribute masking, you see more attributes the higher your knowledge level is on your manager profile. Players under 23 will have more attributes revealed thee higher your young player knowledge is, those over reveal more if your player knowledge is higher.

Therefore, if you don't play with attribute masking, you may as well set your knowledge level to 1 for each and use those attributes in other areas like coaching because you can see all attributes of the players anyway. You could then make yourself a 5* coach in a few areas because you have a lot of attribute points to use up.

Personally, I use attribute masking. However, with the way I play I only scout players recommended to me by my scouts and I only buy players I have fully scouted. I rarely use the player search screen.

 

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I always use it, as I got used to it in 01/02 as a self-imposed way of making the game more challenging and it's an automatic part of my routine setting up a new save although I don't think it's necessary any more.

One English manager who was often a summariser on the radio (David Pleat I think but I may be wrong) had such an encyclopedic knowledge of every player in England, including style, strengths, weaknesses etc I thought he went through his career with masking off!

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I play with attribute masking on, and player knowledge and young player knowledge set to 1. It definitely makes it realistic for the ultra low level that I'm playing at that I don't know a thing about the opposition players that rock up each week.

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On 18/09/2019 at 10:23, grasu said:

Was wondering how many people actually use attribute masking. I'm looking at some streamers and I've noticed some of them don't use attribute masking, and, apparently, on some websites similar polls have shown that 70%+ of people are also in the same boat. I always thought this was one of the most popular settings to have turned on and I kind've always seen it as "easy mode" since you can easily see all players. What's your take on this ? Do you use attribute masking?

To be fair, when I stream, I have attribute masking turned off for that save because it makes it a lot easier for me to look at a player a viewer suggests and see if they're decent (and if people just ask to see how, say, Sandro Tonali is doing in 2022). Meanwhile, when I'm doing my personal save, I always have attribute masking on.

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3 hours ago, DementedHammer said:

I play with attribute masking on, and player knowledge and young player knowledge set to 1.

I do so... but not for the sake of realism, but only because I rely on scouts more and save those precious attribute points for other categories. :lol: I've always thought that as long as I have scouts, my manager doesn't actually need an encyclopedic knowledge of the players within the database. OTOH, I obviously find it jarring when scouts don't actually have good knowledge of the nation they're from and can't tell a kitten and a lion apart. :p But that's another can of worms...

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Of course I do. Realism. No point having scouts if you can see everything about every player just by clicking on their profile. 

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I always play with attribute masking on. I've never played with it off since it was introduced.

I'm currently playing as Bishop's Stortford in the Southern Premier League. I'm not going to know that Jocky McJockface has 5 for passing playing for Annan Athletic in Scottish League Two.

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I have never played with it off because I do not want to be able to see every player's attributes. I find it unrealistic and think I should have to scout players to know about them. As mentioned though, it is personal choice, and not something I ever really thought about.

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It doesn’t make the game much more challenging having it on does it? Surely it just means things take longer as you have to do more scouting?

I don’t really have the time or patience to wait longer whilst I scout the player so I can’t see any reason why I’d use it. 

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9 hours ago, Nobby_McDonald said:

I always play with attribute masking on. I've never played with it off since it was introduced.

I'm currently playing as Bishop's Stortford in the Southern Premier League. I'm not going to know that Jocky McJockface has 5 for passing playing for Annan Athletic in Scottish League Two.

Are you confident that by watching the ME you could tell whether he has 5 or 10? I don’t think it’s at this level yet as there are too many other variables and/or animation issues.
 

In real life you’d get a much better feel by watching the player so I see the attributes as a way of plugging the gap. 

Edited by DP

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I have not used it yet but perhaps might try it out this time around.

In my mind, it might "free" the manager to pick more liberally as you won't be able to see a difference between a 12 or 13 or 14 or 15. If you see the numbers, you would probably pick the 15 over the 12. If you see a bar, you can't exactly tell, so you might take the one with the 12 because of other reasons.

 

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I like the idea of realism but we're all sat in front of a computer managing a football team so I can live without the realism here. I love data so the more attributes I can see the better my decision. I never mask, it just takes away the cut-throat decision making that's needed. Poor attributes? You're getting sold.

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I've always played with Attribute Masking on but recently I found that turning it off makes it more handy. Half of the players my scouts find are not worth the effort, so yeah it's just much easier to sort the player lists out.

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On 18/09/2019 at 06:00, herne79 said:

It's all personal choice but imo largely irrelevant because we still need to scout players properly in order to get a feel for their hidden attributes, which are every bit as important as the visible ones but remain hidden even with attribute masking off.

Attribute masking on or off doesn't tell us how professional a player might be, how consistent he is, injury proneness, whether he'll wilt under pressure, what his potential might be and so on.  The only way we can find those things out is through scouting, so if they have to be scouted anyway attribute masking becomes kind of irrelevant.

It's funny, I've been trying not dwell too much on what I learn about a player's hidden attributes from the Pros/Cons section of the report.

Not that it isn't useful or valuable information, but too many times I've held off on signing a player because they were inconsistent or injury prone. 

When I have gambled on this type of player, their "issues" are rarely so bad that they're detrimental to the team. They may just require a bit more micro managing which is fine. 

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In my opinion, playing without masking attributes is not realistic and takes some fun out of the game.

What do you do with your scout if you don't play with hidden attributes ?  they are useless, no ?

In my mind it's the same thing than playing with the first mercato :)

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12 minutes ago, Akasha said:

What do you do with your scout if you don't play with hidden attributes ?  they are useless, no ?

Your scouts will give you a scout report advising: pros & cons; an assessment of "hidden" attributes such as consistency and injury proneness; a player's likely potential / room for growth; an assessment of how much the club may sell the player for; the player's likely wage demands; work permit eligibility; and whether the player would actually consider joining your club or not.

Only a scout report can give you that, so scouts aren't useless even if attribute masking is turned off :thup:.

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@wkdsoulThat's damn cool. Good work. 

 

Out of interest, can you also show a screenshot of how the player comparison screen looks with your skin? 

Edited by DementedHammer

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2 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

Seem to be a popular tweak for FM at the min.  I've made a skin with no attribute numbers at all (scout reports only) and another with just the coloured box ranges (0-5 red, 6-10, 11-15, green, 16-20 blue etc) so you can only tell the range of an attribute. for players this year. (eg below)     

1326635421_FootballManager201922_09_201919_03_53.thumb.png.9c82f6bfec078a456de8ea3021f8a24a.png

Wow that looks great!  Is it possible to download this anywhere? I have never liked exact numbers, I just want the feel of the players abilites and happy to work the rest out via match engine and the players stats.

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Il y a 8 heures, herne79 a dit :

Your scouts will give you a scout report advising: pros & cons; an assessment of "hidden" attributes such as consistency and injury proneness; a player's likely potential / room for growth; an assessment of how much the club may sell the player for; the player's likely wage demands; work permit eligibility; and whether the player would actually consider joining your club or not.

Only a scout report can give you that, so scouts aren't useless even if attribute masking is turned off :thup:.

Ok, I understand your explanation.  I'm always playing with hidden attributes so i don't know how it is when it's turned off :D .

It's more easy to find good players and not realistic for me, to play without masking attributes. But each and everyone of us see the game as he want to be.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zemahh said:

Thanks for the link to my site :D

My method is slightly different to the above with a solid colour, in that you get a progressive bar, rather than a solid one. Although, I actually I quite like the solid method.

screenshot-2018-11-04-at-10-17-12.png

Edited by fmFutbolManager

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The attributes can be viewed unmasked in the game even when the masking is turned on. I practically always have the masking on, but sometimes cannot resist looking at the attributes before deciding whether to scout the player or not.

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On 09/10/2019 at 20:29, wkdsoul said:

Seem to be a popular tweak for FM at the min.  I've made a skin with no attribute numbers at all (scout reports only) and another with just the coloured box ranges (0-5 red, 6-10, 11-15, green, 16-20 blue etc) so you can only tell the range of an attribute. for players this year. (eg below)     

1326635421_FootballManager201922_09_201919_03_53.thumb.png.9c82f6bfec078a456de8ea3021f8a24a.png

This.

This is how the game should work by default, much more realistic than an absolute numerical value. 

The range of 5 points per colour looks spot on, just enough uncertainty to keep things interesting i.e. is Foden's passing 16 or 20?

Great work wkdsoul, SI please take note!

 

Edited by Mr U Rosler

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On 09/10/2019 at 20:39, DementedHammer said:

@wkdsoulThat's damn cool. Good work. 

 

Out of interest, can you also show a screenshot of how the player comparison screen looks with your skin? 

806266084_FootballManager201912_10_201913_52_19.thumb.png.17046d0c5383be4de3c2b9b24a820948.png

this how it looks with teh file in the default skin

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12 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

This.

This is how the game should work by default, much more realistic than an absolute numerical value. 

The range of 5 points per colour looks spot on, just enough uncertainty to keep things interesting i.e. is Foden's passing 16 or 20?

Great work wkdsoul, SI please take note!

 

The ranges are still customisable in the skin setting colours. doesnt have to be 5 point bands. you can use anything. 

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I’ve been playing since CM days and I hated the introduction of attribute masking, I dunno it just changes the speed at which I get to play the game. 
 

I like that I have trained my brain to figure out how good a player is at a glance and it’s harder to do that with masking on.

I get the realism angle and I appreciate it, but it’s just not for me. I’ve tried doing realistic journeyman saves and used it a few times but I generally just got frustrated and quit.

 

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On 08/10/2019 at 08:20, DP said:

Are you confident that by watching the ME you could tell whether he has 5 or 10? I don’t think it’s at this level yet as there are too many other variables and/or animation issues.
 

In real life you’d get a much better feel by watching the player so I see the attributes as a way of plugging the gap. 

No I wouldn't, but there are two ways the game firstly provides a range for an unknown attribute then narrows it down to eventually a single figure over time.

First one is your scouts watching the player. The second is you watching the player, either by watching a game involving two other teams or by him being in the opposition's team.

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On 12/10/2019 at 13:41, Mr U Rosler said:

This.

This is how the game should work by default, much more realistic than an absolute numerical value. 

The range of 5 points per colour looks spot on, just enough uncertainty to keep things interesting i.e. is Foden's passing 16 or 20?

Great work wkdsoul, SI please take note!

 

 

On 09/10/2019 at 22:35, RiverReveal666 said:

Wow that looks great!  Is it possible to download this anywhere? I have never liked exact numbers, I just want the feel of the players abilites and happy to work the rest out via match engine and the players stats.

I have this skin for 20 already (on the default anyway) as requested by someone.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/xq6lgr58oboryz4/Shrewnaldo_Skin.rar/file

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On 12/10/2019 at 13:41, Mr U Rosler said:

This.

This is how the game should work by default, much more realistic than an absolute numerical value. 

The range of 5 points per colour looks spot on, just enough uncertainty to keep things interesting i.e. is Foden's passing 16 or 20?

Great work wkdsoul, SI please take note!

 

Cobbled a new version of this... 

946628232_FootballManager202022_01_202019_51_23.thumb.png.fbb5b792af35e45e6b91e6ae766a5891.png  1922019808_FootballManager202022_01_202019_51_42.thumb.png.04f217f880ce9e633c063b93e5b79445.png

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The joy of having an A+ class of scouting department. I am always trying to having the best scouts in my leagues. 

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It's one of the few things that makes the game harder while still providing fairness. So, instead of random events or morale events, I prefer things like masking attributes to make scouting/transfer just a bit harder, that's how they should keep the game challenging, in my opinion (still fair).

And 'wkdsoul' tweak sounds like a good one. Less randomity, more masking.

Edited by Tetsuro P12

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On 12/10/2019 at 13:41, Mr U Rosler said:

This.

This is how the game should work by default, much more realistic than an absolute numerical value. 

The range of 5 points per colour looks spot on, just enough uncertainty to keep things interesting i.e. is Foden's passing 16 or 20?

Great work wkdsoul, SI please take note!

 

At first sight it looks like a good idea but upon refection I'm not sure. IMO the "problem" just changes. Is a green attribute always better than than a blue one? Well, to answer my own question, not necessarily when the green attribute may be representing a figure of 15.5 and the blue represents 15.4.

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39 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

At first sight it looks like a good idea but upon refection I'm not sure. IMO the "problem" just changes. Is a green attribute always better than than a blue one? Well, to answer my own question, not necessarily when the green attribute may be representing a figure of 15.5 and the blue represents 15.4.

What if that is the challenge instead of 'anything can happen on the field' (even your players just sweeping the ball, like it is now). If the unpredictability shift to the masked attributes instead of morale and hidden 'events' I would be more than happy. Unfortunately nothing that can be done to FM20.

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I have Scouting for Attributes on but i do not hide them after they have been scouted bcs the game does not do a good Job in visualising Attributes in the 3D Match and i mostly disagree with my Scouts and the AI about what makes a good Player so there is no way for me to know how good a Player is based on other things than Attributes.

For sure not game stats where a Player is 1/22 of the 2 Squads playing a match with a massive amount of other influences that make stats highly interdependant with other Players performances and for sure not Scout recommendations were i get 99% of the Time crap advice for hiring Players i consider weak and the good advice is about Players i can not pay.

So i let my Scouts reveal me the Attributes and decide my own what a good Player looks like.

Edited by Etebaer

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I prefer masking off because scouting is one of my least favorite things to do. 

I would also hate if attribute bars were the standard instead of numbers. I would not be able to tell if a 15 was better than a 14 using bars, but to a professional football scout/coach, they could easily tell the difference between a player with a 14 rating and one with a 15

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On 12/10/2019 at 05:41, Mr U Rosler said:

This.

This is how the game should work by default, much more realistic than an absolute numerical value. 

The range of 5 points per colour looks spot on, just enough uncertainty to keep things interesting i.e. is Foden's passing 16 or 20?

Great work wkdsoul, SI please take note!

 

This is how I’ve played the last couple FMs. I agree this is the way the game should be by default. 

As others said, though, they don’t like it as it makes the game take longer.

Why, though? The purpose is to mask. To hide you knowing everything about the player. 

So, instead of taking longer to scout 100s of players 100%, leave some guessing room.

This gives us players the real-life scenarios of not quite knowing who to choose, how it will work out, how much potential they have, if they will work with the team. It gives us flops, and makes it all the sweeter when we make the right choice and sign a player that does wonders on our team. 

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