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lazy_coconut

general player idiocy - what am I doing wrong?

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hello, and sorry if this has been already covered, but search didn't seem to help much.

For the last couple versions of the game I'm seeing same type of issues that just don't go away whatever I try - please point me in a right direction, I don't wanna assume that the game is "rigged" or "broken" or something, but it kind of kills all the fun and immersion:

1. half of conceded goals are coming from my defenders heroically saving the ball from going out of play from opponent just to give it to the wide-open striker - is there a magical combination of instructions to make them stop doing that? I tried playing with mentality, tempo - same thing always. All I can do is try to put bodies behind and sit deep so that at least the opponent won't be in the open when he receives the gift. Every single defender I had does this, and it's incredibly annoying, to a point of just giving up.

2. absolutely any striker in the game misses 4 out of 5 1-on-1's - shoots at the keeper, wide, doesn't shoot at all, waits for the defender to catch up - you name it. High composure, high finishing, player traits - absolutely nothing seems to matter. Every single striker I had in the game does that. 

3. millions of blocked crosses - wide players just hit the first defender 9 out of 10 times. Nothing seems to matter and nothing seems to fix it.

4. More of a conspiracy theory thing, but still - from some point after 3-4 seasons horrific injuries become "a thing" - it's just a lottery to wait and see who will miss 10-12 months right after the transfer window closes. Never a fringe player, always someone from the first team. Not sure about this one, maybe I just concentrate on the negative when it happens though.

As much as I love FM and played since CM99-00, it just kills me - you fine-tune a tactic, only to be forced to try to minimize issues no real team have ever faced. Instead of playing "football management" I have to try to game the system. Halp?

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1. Sounds like poor mentals, an instruction like Play Out Of Defence could compound that.

2. Sorry but your exaggerating. Other attributes play a part its not just finishing + composure.

3. Potential tactic and/or player attribute issue. Typically isolated on wing, can't make space in 1v1, maybe told not to cross so whilst looking for another option so allows defender to recover, was there another option or couldn't see it so just tries cross in hope for corner.

4. What is cause of injury? Wear and tear would suggest intensity/training issue.  What's the players injury risk? If its a match injury (tackle etc) there's not much can do.  I can't say I've had that many issues with injuries maybe because I manage training.

Since you've not shared a tactic and are being quite genetic i can't really give specifics.  Maybe your "fix" for the issue is wrong? Maybe your putting players in situations they aren't suited to? Maybe your putting them in the situations they're best at but then a rare mistake or exception play from opponent makes you change things and ends up going away from what they're good at?

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1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:

1. Sounds like poor mentals, an instruction like Play Out Of Defence could compound that.

2. Sorry but your exaggerating. Other attributes play a part its not just finishing + composure.

3. Potential tactic and/or player attribute issue. Typically isolated on wing, can't make space in 1v1, maybe told not to cross so whilst looking for another option so allows defender to recover, was there another option or couldn't see it so just tries cross in hope for corner.

4. What is cause of injury? Wear and tear would suggest intensity/training issue.  What's the players injury risk? If its a match injury (tackle etc) there's not much can do.  I can't say I've had that many issues with injuries maybe because I manage training.

Since you've not shared a tactic and are being quite genetic i can't really give specifics.  Maybe your "fix" for the issue is wrong? Maybe your putting players in situations they aren't suited to? Maybe your putting them in the situations they're best at but then a rare mistake or exception play from opponent makes you change things and ends up going away from what they're good at?

1 and 3 are very well known match engine issues which have been acknowledged by SI themselves.

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1 hour ago, RocheBag said:

1 and 3 are very well known match engine issues which have been acknowledged by SI themselves.

Not to the extent the OP is making out.  Yes there's silly GK and defenders trying to keep ball in when it would be a GK but I rarely see them then pass to an attacker never mind "concede half my goals" due to it.

I can't remember what SI have said about crossing but I would be surprised if it was anything more than changing the 2d/3d representation than the what happens.  It will likely be modifying positioning so it doesn't look like attacker is doing nothing for so long before defender closes them down.

They aren't suddenly going to increase the percentage of crosses making it into the box just to reduce blocked crosses IMO. If they did they'd probably have to reduce the success rate or crossing would then be complained about as being "op" so still will still come back to the tactic and players.

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At 4. I immediately sub a player that has a knock(orange mark). I saw that sometimes the injury wears away, but sometimes it gets worse, and the player is injured for a longer period. Now the lenghtiest injuries i get, are from training. I didn't see for a while crazy injuries like 7-8 months. I try also to hire the best physios, and fitness coaches.  

 

Also, your best players will get tackled harder. I hate that everytime i played with Barcelona, Messi would be injured alot. When in reality he is hardly ever been injured.

Edited by Muerte706

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Thanks for answers y'all!

For 1 - good to know SI acknowledged it and hopefully are looking for a fix. I tried playing out of defense, different tempos and passing, all to no avail. Might be exaggerating, not 1/2 but like 1/3, still enormous amount for something that virtually never happens in real life. I can try to compose an excel sheet :)
For 2 - @summatsupeer what other than finishing and composure should I look at, could you help? Or is it just tweaked to to avoid scores like 11-9 and I should accept it?
For 3 - really happy it might be addressed by SI too. Understand that if all those crosses go in it might just make it even less realistic though, good point - hope they can make the engine reflect the real game better rather than just doing this to avoid weird scores.

For injuries - again, maybe just me being paranoid - that type of thing mostly happens during training in September-ish. Player injury proneness varies too, and it happened in like Brescia or Plymouth with mediocre medical staff, but then in Man Utd with world-class medical and fitness team as well, dunno. Could be the pre-season intensity, thanks for pointing that out. I usually outsource training to assistant, but will try to pay attention to it.

Thanks again guys!

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39 minutes ago, lazy_coconut said:

Para lesões - novamente, talvez apenas eu sendo paranóico - esse tipo de coisa acontece principalmente durante o treinamento em setembro. A propensão a lesões nos jogadores também varia, e isso aconteceu em Brescia ou Plymouth, com equipe médica medíocre, mas depois em Man Utd, com equipe médica e de fitness de classe mundial, também. Poderia ser a intensidade da pré-temporada, obrigado por apontar isso. Normalmente, terceirizo o treinamento para assistente, mas tentarei prestar atenção nele.

Try changing training intensities when players get tired, or take a few extra recovery sessions, and rest when you have more games in the week. Low training...

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44 minutes ago, lazy_coconut said:

For 3 - really happy it might be addressed by SI too. Understand that if all those crosses go in it might just make it even less realistic though, good point - hope they can make the engine reflect the real game better rather than just doing this to avoid weird scores.

I remember when 90% of FM 2017 crosses resulted in goals, and they were low crosses, they made it harder to happen

 

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15 hours ago, lazy_coconut said:

Thanks for answers y'all!

For 1 - good to know SI acknowledged it and hopefully are looking for a fix. I tried playing out of defense, different tempos and passing, all to no avail. Might be exaggerating, not 1/2 but like 1/3, still enormous amount for something that virtually never happens in real life. I can try to compose an excel sheet :)

Well if your not conceding much is it that big of an issue to change your tactic so much?  Sounds like the defenders are making an individual error which would be due to mental attributes like decisions or poor passing.

Quote

For 2 - @summatsupeer what other than finishing and composure should I look at, could you help? Or is it just tweaked to to avoid scores like 11-9 and I should accept it?

Look at attributes recommended for a poacher for a quick idea.

These are what I look at:

Technical - is what they can do with  the ball limited?

First touch - obviously not always important but can affect when/how they shoot with there second touch.

Anticipation - what's the keeper going to do?

Decisions - what should I do? Chip, place it, blast it, round him etc finishing will be how well they actually do what they decide.

Quote

For 3 - really happy it might be addressed by SI too. Understand that if all those crosses go in it might just make it even less realistic though, good point - hope they can make the engine reflect the real game better rather than just doing this to avoid weird scores.

I still think there's something to be done with tactics.  If the "roll" is its unsuccessful it doesn't really matter how the engine represents it as far as I'm concerned.  I'll still have to modify things, be it changing players or the tactic.

Quote

For injuries - again, maybe just me being paranoid - that type of thing mostly happens during training in September-ish. Player injury proneness varies too, and it happened in like Brescia or Plymouth with mediocre medical staff, but then in Man Utd with world-class medical and fitness team as well, dunno. Could be the pre-season intensity, thanks for pointing that out. I usually outsource training to assistant, but will try to pay attention to it.

Thanks again guys!

The premade preseason physical one look a recipe for injuries to me.  Low match sharpness players doing higher intensity than a match multiple times a week.  If assistant selects them... Ouch.

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17 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Well if your not conceding much is it that big of an issue to change your tactic so much?  Sounds like the defenders are making an individual error which would be due to mental attributes like decisions or poor passing.

Yeah, it really bugs me. Even if everything goes well and tactic clicks and players are happy and we're steamrolling through the season, it really gets to me. Attributes - honestly, don't think so - everyone does this, from like Ryan Porteous of Hibernian to De Ligt and beyond.

17 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Look at attributes recommended for a poacher for a quick idea.

These are what I look at:

Technical - is what they can do with  the ball limited?

First touch - obviously not always important but can affect when/how they shoot with there second touch.

Anticipation - what's the keeper going to do?

Decisions - what should I do? Chip, place it, blast it, round him etc finishing will be how well they actually do what they decide.

Thanks, I'll try to get the best I can and compare, but I don't have high hopes. I thought it's player level at Alessandria, Brescia, Plymouth and Port Vale, but even world class strikers (Icardi) do this all the time for me. If others aren't experiencing this - don't even know what to do. I'm kind of sure it's not a tactical thing - striker is reliably put into that position and opens up and gets the pass - just fails to convert.

17 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

I still think there's something to be done with tactics.  If the "roll" is its unsuccessful it doesn't really matter how the engine represents it as far as I'm concerned.  I'll still have to modify things, be it changing players or the tactic.

I gave it a bunch more thought and played a few games concentrating on crossing in particular, so here's a long IMHO: the "roll" is unsuccessful to prevent bizarre cases of 500 crosses a game happening (and large number of those being converted, if crosser is good and there's a half-decent striker to finish). The way I prefer to play is constantly putting technically gifted good crossers into 1-v-1 situations against defenders - something that in real life is a viable option. Now, in real life we don't get 500 crosses as defending teams will react and do other things - another defender comes to cover, or tactical fouls higher up the pitch, or closing the wide player down even before he receives the ball. The match engine doesn't seem to allow for that, and it relays on just bad rolls (==cross hits first defender) to make the overall outcome believable. My hope is for SI to fix it, otherwise I'd have to start attacking through the center to make this stop - basically try to game the system.

17 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

The premade preseason physical one look a recipe for injuries to me.  Low match sharpness players doing higher intensity than a match multiple times a week.  If assistant selects them... Ouch.

Great point - down the rabbit hole of manually setting up training we go. Thanks again for your answers.

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