fm20 news

[Lord Rowell]

6 hours ago, DP said:

Would be nice if the goalkeeper could actually be sent off by taking out a player. 

Still the most glaring ME omission as it’s something that happens in real life which is impossible to see in FM.

GK sending off for this hasn't happened in the Prem at least, since the double-jeopardy rule was abolished in 2016. Agree though that it would be good to see this kind of foul in FM, along with a tiny bit more of players attempting to / rounding the keeper. I'm sure the two things are related.

[Lanko]

- In a save I read, the creator created four agents with distinct personalities for his story and allowed us to vote for one for his next step in his career.

I thought the idea interesting. If we can have a DOF take care of transfers, couldn't agents also take care of the manager's career, negotiating contracts, getting into contact with clubs for jobs for you, having the confidence of certain presidents/clubs, spreading rumours and etc?

Sometimes it does seem strange Barcelona and cia would just pop an "wanna work here" add like that

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Lanko

[pearcey_90]

Posted elsewhere but will post here what I'd like to see in FM20:

Quote

Be good if there was certain 'in the back of the game' changes made, where certain clubs do go for youth, or sign under 25 policy etc. and it changes from ownership to ownership to give clubs a 'uniqueness' as the save goes on.

Gets rather dull when say for example all Premier League clubs have the same approach to signing players. There's been improvements to AI transfers over the years, but more can still be done.

Said it in the past, and still would like to see it introduced (at least have it as a switch on/off mode), where certain clubs/owners you as the manager can't sign anyone, but the DoF does, and you have no say on who comes in or get giving a list of players and you choose your preference. Be an extra element of realism/difficulty I and I'm sure others would enjoy, but others won't why it should be a switch on/off mode. Miles argument would be "You can do that already with setting the DoF to sign players", but it's not the same at all.

Basically an added difficulty to the game and added realism, that can be changed for people that don't want it. If I leave/join a club and they want a 'Head Coach' rather then 'Manager', then make it so the club signs the players to a certain model. Means I have a more difficult job in deciding to join.

Also hope they update some of the media interaction. Always leave it to assistant anyway, but the one part I find annoying is after being at a club for multiple years (in this case it was 22 years in my save), I resigned with a year left on my contract. At no point was any questions about my 22 years there, or why I resigned (i.e. wanted to take a break from the game). Was all directed like I had a fallen out with the club, no recognition for what I did etc.  

Game has improved on the AI transfers over the years, but feel it's an area they could make bigger strides. If they go even more mental on the tactics/coaching aspect for FM20, yet don't include the part I mentioned about Head Coach, I'll just stick with my current FM19 save.

[pearcey_90]

Also might be me not paying attention to this FM because of the save I'm engrossed in, but can you become a club u18/u23/reserve manager?

If not, I'd like that included in this FM so it adds a different dimension to a journeyman save. You can be charge of B sides, so would be similar but elsewhere.

[99]

Em 20/08/2019 em 16:03, pearcey_90 disse:

Also might be me not paying attention to this FM because of the save I'm engrossed in, but can you become a club u18/u23/reserve manager?

If not, I'd like that included in this FM so it adds a different dimension to a journeyman save. You can be charge of B sides, so would be similar but elsewhere.

To this suggestion, that I second, just add that when you do an exceptional job at the B team / Reserves / uX, maybe have a slight preference boost from the Board to appoint you as the manager of the main squad. Would be fantastic to manage the same wonderkid from the very "bottom" (u18) up to the main team. Someone like Guardiola, true he already had the fame from his player's time, but he started his managerial career in Barcelona B and the rest is history...

[Martini]

I may be super late but i want the new format for the club world cup  

[Stevo_99]

Does anybody have a rough idea when the release date may be?

Probably a Friday - hopefully  the 1st!

[LCpl]

Would just like to see CA/PA replaced with plain old attributes. Players should improve based on a collection of factors including performance. That top striker with 140 PA mentioned above, is no different to Jamie Vardy. Literally nobody ever thought he was a 160+ until he became so. Clearly as a result of opportunity, coaching, determination, team mates, fitness during the period, management. Not because he's always had a number he can reach.

[masno]

4 horas atrás, Stevo_99 disse:

Does anybody have a rough idea when the release date may be?

Probably a Friday - hopefully  the 1st!

Stadia will launch in november, so probably FM will be a day one game?

And also about stadia, SI did the terrible mistake of not launching anything about FM 20 to grab the hype train in the stadia connect, a lot of people are comenting about the games that are in the stadia list that was launched during gamescom, and FM is not there, I guess because they didn't even announced the cover of the game. Bad (if not terrible) move by SI.

[grade]

5 hours ago, masno said:

Stadia will launch in november, so probably FM will be a day one game?

And also about stadia, SI did the terrible mistake of not launching anything about FM 20 to grab the hype train in the stadia connect, a lot of people are comenting about the games that are in the stadia list that was launched during gamescom, and FM is not there, I guess because they didn't even announced the cover of the game. Bad (if not terrible) move by SI.

Don't worry, if Miles twit a few days ago is correct, we will learn something at the end of this month. So there is 9 days to go. I'm guessing we will learn something about FM20, next week.

[masno]

3 horas atrás, grade disse:

Don't worry, if Miles twit a few days ago is correct, we will learn something at the end of this month. So there is 9 days to go. I'm guessing we will learn something about FM20, next week.

The problema here is not us,the fans that already follow FM in their social media and also here,the problem is the free marketing FM would get in this gamescom with stadia holding their nane in the flag. Without SI announcing their game,ir is impossible for stadia to even try to promote one of their game. Like I said,bad move.

[Lanko]

8 hours ago, grade said:

Don't worry, if Miles twit a few days ago is correct, we will learn something at the end of this month. So there is 9 days to go. I'm guessing we will learn something about FM20, next week.

The announcement of the announcement... where did I see something like this before...

[Stevicus]

21 hours ago, Stevo_99 said:

Does anybody have a rough idea when the release date may be?

Probably a Friday - hopefully  the 1st!

Usually first few days of November, with two week beta access prior, so you're looking at mid to late October really if previous few years are anything to go by

[Overmars]

On 17/08/2019 at 17:08, RBKalle said:

BTW, I don't remember Pep's Barça playing many crosses, low or floated. I wouldn't say they NEVER crossed, but almost every time the opposition's defense forced them out wide, they duly backpedaled and started a new move from the back.
In FM, it almost feels like AI can't be arsed to start over, hence crossing where crossing shouldn't happen, or long shots galore.

It's the #1 item that has reduced my enjoyment of FM19. Recycling possession doesn't happen nearly as often as it does in real life, and consequently, FM19 crossing attempts are far greater than real life totals. I'm so sick of the superior team in a match crossing 70-80 times in 90 minutes. How can a match ever look right with those numbers?

If FM20 cuts crossing frequency in half from FM19 then that will improve the game immeasurably.

[MrPompey]

22 hours ago, masno said:

The problema here is not us,the fans that already follow FM in their social media and also here,the problem is the free marketing FM would get in this gamescom with stadia holding their nane in the flag. Without SI announcing their game,ir is impossible for stadia to even try to promote one of their game. Like I said,bad move.

I would imagine that SEGA as the publisher have plenty of experience to know what to do and when

[masno]

10 horas atrás, MrPompey disse:

I would imagine that SEGA as the publisher have plenty of experience to know what to do and when

It is impressive how hard people (and the mods) try to defend SI and SEGA, talking like they are flawless. Conmenbol have years of experience, and yet they did a mistake with one post congratulating a team with all the details in the color of their rival. Even with all this experience, why they did such a mistake? Miles is the FM director and yet he one time or another give a bad response to a fan, the consumer of his product, but with so long time being a public personality, and having to deal with all type of people, why he had done this?

Because years of experience don't make you flawless. People still forget or think that decision A is better than B. Miles is the FM director and yet he one time or another give a bad response to a fan, the consumer of his product. In MY opinion, was a mistake don't get in the hype train that stadia is creating for themselves at gamescom and try to grab people attention for the next release. But of course, we can't give a feedback because the all mighty SEGA/SI knows everything, everything is fine, the game doesn't have any problem at all, it is all our tactics.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, masno said:

It is impressive how hard people (and the mods) try to defend SI and SEGA, talking like they are flawless....But of course, we can't give a feedback because the all mighty SEGA/SI knows everything, everything is fine, the game doesn't have any problem at all, it is all our tactics.

Feedback, especially critical or constructive feedback is always welcome.  Please do share examples of where people have said the game doesn't have any problems or it's all our tactics and I'll correct them for you .

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, masno said:

It is impressive how hard people (and the mods) try to defend SI and SEGA, talking like they are flawless. Conmenbol have years of experience, and yet they did a mistake with one post congratulating a team with all the details in the color of their rival. Even with all this experience, why they did such a mistake? Miles is the FM director and yet he one time or another give a bad response to a fan, the consumer of his product, but with so long time being a public personality, and having to deal with all type of people, why he had done this?

Because years of experience don't make you flawless. People still forget or think that decision A is better than B. Miles is the FM director and yet he one time or another give a bad response to a fan, the consumer of his product. In MY opinion, was a mistake don't get in the hype train that stadia is creating for themselves at gamescom and try to grab people attention for the next release. But of course, we can't give a feedback because the all mighty SEGA/SI knows everything, everything is fine, the game doesn't have any problem at all, it is all our tactics.

To add to Herne's point, Pompey is also allowed his opinion as much as you are. What we don't need is here is people making sly digs at others. Let's leave that behind eh? 

[masno]

4 minutos atrás, herne79 disse:

Feedback, especially critical or constructive feedback is always welcome.  Please do share examples of where people have said the game doesn't have any problems or it's all our tactics and I'll correct them for you .

The problem here is how much of "white knight" happens here. This forum already became a meme in others communities exactly because of how hard people try to hide some problems in the game (the feedback forum is the biggest exemple, just because one thing didn't happened with you in your save doesn't mean that it don't happen, and some people there simply refuse to say that the ME have any problem at all), and how some members are almost allowed to call out other members when defending the game, but when the reverse happens some mod appears in the next post giving a call or even closing the post. It is frustating how some members try to express themselves and try to show that the game have things wrong and want a lot that it gets better. just for someone shows up,say everything SI did is correct and one mod go and help that person. 

FM is a great and all, and SI did a fantastic job to keep it the best manager game in the market, but if people decides to simply say that every single FM is perfect and don't accepts anyone saying anything negative (like I said that was a bad move for marketing SI not using gamescom and stadia to maybe boost thair popularity, and get a post against my argument backed by a mod) in the primary source of contact with the SI devs, the game will get stale year after year. Lets even be real here, FM 16,17 and 18 didn't had many new things to justify paying full price in the game, and the community disliked it, but bought the game to show support and hope for the best in the future.

Regarding the part on the examples, I will not call any names to not cause this post to be closed because of the controversy, some will think they were right in their argument,etc. You just need to walk a bit in the forums and you will find examples.

[hungmn]

On 19/08/2019 at 21:19, Lord Rowell said:

GK sending off for this hasn't happened in the Prem at least, since the double-jeopardy rule was abolished in 2016. Agree though that it would be good to see this kind of foul in FM, along with a tiny bit more of players attempting to / rounding the keeper. I'm sure the two things are related.

This.

And on the other hand, FM needs to tune down the amount of two-foot tackle in the game. I can understand if it is a tension match but my team were in a comfortable 3-0 lead and my star striker for some reason decided to tackle their defender in their own half.

[herne79]

37 minutes ago, masno said:

but if people decides to simply say that every single FM is perfect

 

2 hours ago, masno said:

we can't give a feedback

 

2 hours ago, masno said:

everything is fine, the game doesn't have any problem at all, it is all our tactics.

Hyperbole is part of the problem.  You can talk about memes all you like (ironically "it's your tactics" is the biggest meme of all) but if somebody expresses a difference of opinion to yours and your first response is to go into the hyperbole of "everybody just defends SI", it doesn't help discussion and feedback.  People never just defend SI - they may express differences of opinion or even offer advice of different things to try out ("visit the tactics forum as you may get some new ideas" is not the same thing as "it's your tactics").

So express your opinion, give feedback.  You're more than welcome to.  But in a discussion forum such as this, don't be surprised if somebody expresses a different opinion or point of view.  And if they do, try discussing it without immediately falling back on the "you're just defending the game" meme .

[超级足球狂热迷]

在 2019/8/15 在 PM10点29分, Neil Brock说:

Just to clarify, every single year I've worked at SI (this year is my 13th) there's been tweaks and improvements to AI transfers/squad building. 

Also just to clarify, the game doesn't use CA+PA+Reputation. It actually uses Estimated CA+PPA+Rep+Form+Performance. Also tied into the squad needs of course. 

Everyone has different priorities. In this thread alone we've had some saying transfers, some saying the match engine. We work on all of it because we want the whole game to be better with each iteration. 

excuse me, can the game make snow lawn?

[Lucas]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

So express your opinion, give feedback.  You're more than welcome to.  But in a discussion forum such as this, don't be surprised if somebody expresses a different opinion or point of view. 

Also worth remembering SI as a studio has many different people with different opinions and points of view too, and discussion is so important here, on social media, elsewhere so that they can consider what people are saying. Often views expressed here are carried into internal discussions and they get accepted, evolve, sometimes rejected (and even then it might end up in the game a few versions later). You can see this with the feature requests forum there is a real good place to contribute.

SI might carry with one voice when speaking here but they very much do listen. There's no better place to discuss and put forward your views, everybody wants the game the best that it can be. That isn't possible without taking on board valid, constructive feedback. 

[GoldenGoal]

[alian62]

On 15/08/2019 at 03:58, YUK0N said:

Fifa has come out with a manager mode. Not sure how big this is for FM players like us, But I have to say I will be defiminately checking it out for that reason. I said this a few months ago the big guys were coming after this game and want the people who play this to switch over and this years Fifa is the first sign of them really taken a turn towards that. And if and once they get it they'll ruin it like everything else. I'm still gonna check it out as I'm sure others will but will give SI one more year to see if the improvements are there... The engine needs fixing.

 

 

Yeah but it is EA Sports

[alian62]

On 15/08/2019 at 04:38, CFuller said:

I have played FM in 3D since it was introduced. Yes, some of the animations are a bit wonky, but the match engine itself is still very solid. No other sports match engine can match it for realism (don't say FIFA is realistic, because it's not - it's basically an arcade game, and a FIFA match lasting 90 real minutes would probably finish 30-27).

And by the way, I was born in 1990. D'you know just how sophisticated a football video game from 1990 looked?

Now look at FM19's graphics and tell me truthfully that they aren't a marked improvement. And in future, please don't make up hyperbole about how FM's graphics look like they were designed nearly 30 years ago.

The graphics are fine but I think he is probably  referring to the way they move as in like the 1990s . But it's improving every year 

[alian62]

On 15/08/2019 at 21:48, RBKalle said:

But again, in FIFA/PES the 3D match was the CORE of the game, so graphics had to be as good as possible, and so was the gameplay, in order to sell the game.

FM is mostly about managing a football club also between matches. The 3D engine is a visual rendition of our tactical choices, so having 30 different animations for a volley or for a save isn't really as important as devising an engine able to lead to those moves making sense in context.
I don't really care about how fluid and pleasing the animation of my striker trapping the ball for a cross from the right-wing, if I'm playing a narrow wingless formation where game is expected to go through the middle... I really care about the players doing what I've instructed them to do and said instructions to be followed closely and to yield what their names suggest.

 

Bascially this whole "the 3D ME looks awful, why can't it look like FIFA" complaints are out of place. It's like complaining about a top-of-the-line keyboard not sounding like a grand piano or like a Hammond organ. If you really NEED that sound, use the real thing. A keyboard though is much more versatile and "sounding like _____" is one of its many functions.

I think your incorrect in that assumption . My thoughts are that the 3D game is the end result of your preparations before that game . If it doesn't bother you then stick figures would be ok for you ? But it's like a really good movie being let down by its ending . A bit like GOT that was a fantastic series but is remembered for its last episode which was average. So FM is the same that is a great game let down by its ending but it is improving although I think they have gone backwards since FM17 in the ME .

[alian62]

On 15/08/2019 at 23:49, Alerion said:

So much negativity in this thread, holy moly.

Since I started playing FM, which was FM15 I guess, I got around 1000 hours each year out of the game, for what, 50 Euro or so ? Which is AMAZING value for money. And that alone lets me shrug off all the smaller bugs or details that do not fit because come FM20 beta, and I look back at the FM19 year, I know It was worth.

So instead of complaining about all the things maybe take a look at the positive things about FM, its a one-time purchase without any shady DLC´s, microtransactions (bar the few things, e.G ingame editor) or "momentum" crap. 

If we didn't  complain then they would not make it better . Our feedback counts which pushes them to make a better game

[超级足球狂热迷]

在 2019/8/15 在 AM4点38分, CFuller说:

I have played FM in 3D since it was introduced. Yes, some of the animations are a bit wonky, but the match engine itself is still very solid. No other sports match engine can match it for realism (don't say FIFA is realistic, because it's not - it's basically an arcade game, and a FIFA match lasting 90 real minutes would probably finish 30-27).

And by the way, I was born in 1990. D'you know just how sophisticated a football video game from 1990 looked?

Now look at FM19's graphics and tell me truthfully that they aren't a marked improvement. And in future, please don't make up hyperbole about how FM's graphics look like they were designed nearly 30 years ago.

I think the engine is good at tactics.

It mainly improves the quality of grass texture, the texture quality of players'uniforms and the connection of players' animation.

The second problem is that AI has too many bugs, the computer team's home court strength, the away court is too weak, the computer changes too little in the game, knap tactics is a bug, but it can not be repaired in the past year.

[超级足球狂热迷]

在 2019/8/15 在 AM4点47分, YUK0N说:

i was born in 1965 and playing PONG at 5 this isn't a pissing contest I was exaggerating on purpose. So instead of arguing  with you Im done with the post Ive seen twice as much gaming in my time to know when something is in trouble. Especially when people wait for the price comedown to even buy the game now and then wish they hadn't because of the let down. This game is in trouble. The players know it at least some, I know it and the SI knows it and if they don't then its really in trouble cause if you get a few more just patched versions it's  gonna be done. Its My Prediction that I truly would hate to see. Im done responding to this and I really hope SI take note, Better yet I'm praying they already have long ago and that's what the wait is for.

I think the engine is good at tactics.But it can be called long-range FM

It mainly improves the quality of grass texture, the texture quality of players'uniforms and the connection of players' animation.

The second problem is that AI has too many bugs, the computer team's home court strength, the away court is too weak, the computer changes too little in the game, knap tactics is a bug, but it can not be repaired in the past year.

Edited August 24, 2019 by 超级足球狂热迷

[超级足球狂热迷]

在 2019/8/15 在 PM3点57分, Footix说:

The graphics (3D) really need some work. Granted it's not completely 1990 style, but if you look up older games such as PES 5 and Fifa 2004 the graphics on those still blow FM 19 out of the water. 

I play 2D simply because I think the 3D looks rubbish.

This does not require FM according to FIFA and PES

They are all different kinds of games.

Edited August 24, 2019 by 超级足球狂热迷

[gam945]

I don't understand this Stadia thing.

Just please reassure me, FM 2020 will also have a PC version like the 2019?

[alian62]

53 minutes ago, gam945 said:

I don't understand this Stadia thing.

Just please reassure me, FM 2020 will also have a PC version like the 2019?

Definitely

 

[CFuller]

5 hours ago, GoldenGoal said:

Will you ever go a year without using this flawed meme to have a go at SI's newgen faces? You are clearly using the worst possible faces from FMs 17-19 for 'comedic' effect.

Compare FM19's newgens faces to FM18's, and I'd say about 9 in 10 users would say FM19's are an improvement. 9 in 10 users would also expect FM20's to improve on FM19's further.

You've got to realise that SI are only two years into using 3D technology for their faces, and that early teething problems are inevitable. Heck, even FIFA's generated player faces leave a lot to be desired, and they've been in the game for how long?

[RBKalle]

6 ore fa, prot651 ha scritto:

I think your incorrect in that assumption . My thoughts are that the 3D game is the end result of your preparations before that game . If it doesn't bother you then stick figures would be ok for you ? But it's like a really good movie being let down by its ending . A bit like GOT that was a fantastic series but is remembered for its last episode which was average. So FM is the same that is a great game let down by its ending but it is improving although I think they have gone backwards since FM17 in the ME .

I disagree.

The 3D game is indeed the end-result of match preparation etc, but its biggest issue isn't the graphical part. I wouldn't mind having Sensible Soccer-like sprites (with like 6 animations) if the ME itself did execute my intended gameplan to a tee. And if the TC instructions were as straightforward and effective as their label suggested.
Basically, give me a crappy 1999-style graphical rendition of a state-of-the-art Match Engine in terms of Input-Output. I set my team up to play narrow, possession oriented game? I don't want to see a cross, a long shot or hoofball. EVER. I set up my team to play urgent, direct hoofball toward my 6"6 target man? Great, I don't want to see pointless tiki-taka between my CMs, and the CF should never leave the box while we're in possession. And so on.
All that without needing to read 100 pages of educated guesses and insider's knowledge either.

 

Conversely, I couldn't give a rat's ass about having a FIFA25 presentation if the current ME quirks and flaws are still there... Top-level players not hitting a barn door, always choosing the wrong option even when it's not a tactical priority at all, long shots from absurd positions, awful crossing, forwards being too lazy and not attacking the box, defenders getting caught napping by 60m long balls etc...
If all of that is still present in the ME, what's the point of having it flawlessly animated with top-of-the-line technology?

 

As per your movie analogy, it's like spending 1billion on CGI and SFX for a movie with a 10-pages derivative script. Sure, it'll be visually pleasing, but the whole product is still flawed. Would you rather have a great story with ok visuals, or an awful story with awesome visuals?

[Tony Wright 747]

14 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

I disagree.

The 3D game is indeed the end-result of match preparation etc, but its biggest issue isn't the graphical part. I wouldn't mind having Sensible Soccer-like sprites (with like 6 animations) if the ME itself did execute my intended gameplan to a tee. And if the TC instructions were as straightforward and effective as their label suggested.
Basically, give me a crappy 1999-style graphical rendition of a state-of-the-art Match Engine in terms of Input-Output. I set my team up to play narrow, possession oriented game? I don't want to see a cross, a long shot or hoofball. EVER. I set up my team to play urgent, direct hoofball toward my 6"6 target man? Great, I don't want to see pointless tiki-taka between my CMs, and the CF should never leave the box while we're in possession. And so on.
All that without needing to read 100 pages of educated guesses and insider's knowledge either.

 

Conversely, I couldn't give a rat's ass about having a FIFA25 presentation if the current ME quirks and flaws are still there... Top-level players not hitting a barn door, always choosing the wrong option even when it's not a tactical priority at all, long shots from absurd positions, awful crossing, forwards being too lazy and not attacking the box, defenders getting caught napping by 60m long balls etc...
If all of that is still present in the ME, what's the point of having it flawlessly animated with top-of-the-line technology?

 

As per your movie analogy, it's like spending 1billion on CGI and SFX for a movie with a 10-pages derivative script. Sure, it'll be visually pleasing, but the whole product is still flawed. Would you rather have a great story with ok visuals, or an awful story with awesome visuals?

As has been said many times the graphical engine and the match engine are two different things and they both need improving

[RBKalle]

2 ore fa, Tony Wright 747 ha scritto:

As has been said many times the graphical engine and the match engine are two different things and they both need improving

Fine.

But for a football MANAGEMENT game, which one is the obvious priority?

a) state-of-the-art graphical engine on an outdated/quirky match engine
b) adequate (for its purpose) graphical engine on a state-of-the-art match engine

As I've said many times, I don't give a toss about how great the animation for a shot is, much less if said shot shouldn't have happened in the first place because it went against my entire tactical setup the ME decided to ignore (likely because most instructions are NOT what it says on the tin)

I honestly struggle to understand why this is even up for debate... It's like clamouring for a Civilization game to have Triple A-level graphics, a la Red Dead Redempion, God of War etch. Would it be cool? Sure. Is it necessary and worth investing time and resources? Hell no.

[Bradley21]

4 hours ago, CFuller said:

Will you ever go a year without using this flawed meme to have a go at SI's newgen faces? You are clearly using the worst possible faces from FMs 17-19 for 'comedic' effect.

Compare FM19's newgens faces to FM18's, and I'd say about 9 in 10 users would say FM19's are an improvement. 9 in 10 users would also expect FM20's to improve on FM19's further.

You've got to realise that SI are only two years into using 3D technology for their faces, and that early teething problems are inevitable. Heck, even FIFA's generated player faces leave a lot to be desired, and they've been in the game for how long?

There really isn't any excuse for newgen faces being this bad, they don't even look human. I could rig up a 3D face randomiser pretty quickly that would give better results than whatever it is SI use for theirs. A successful company of SI's size, and with Sega's backing, should not be releasing such obviously sub-standard features year on year. A good chunk of my newgens are bald, half look like aliens, the other half look like an offensive stereotype of someone with learning difficulties, it just is not good enough.

 

It's the same ***** with the 3D pitches, people like to get up on their high-horse and say the graphics don't matter, FM is so much more than that, so much deeper, so much more sophisticated. Yeha, sure, it is, but it's also not 1999 anymore andgames as a medium have moved on far more than SI have with their design. Is having a ****** newgen face module or the same 3D engine going to stop me from buying next years game, of course not. But does it still bother me that SI are happy to sit on their hands and put out something with minor changes (improvements is not a word that fits) because they know people will still buy it, yes it absolutely does. It's the same mentality as EA has with FIFA, there's virtually no difference with EA and SI when it comes to the year-on-year iterations.

[CFuller]

I get the feeling some users wouldn't be satisfied with FM until their players start performing like robots who always carry out tactical instructions to the letter.

Players do make initially baffling decisions that sometimes pay off and sometimes don't. Elite defenders do lose concentration at key moments. World-class strikers like Fernando Torres do turn into wayward shooters like... Fernando Torres. Manchester City do attempt crosses and long balls every now and then.

Football would not be football if players always did exactly what you asked of them. And while the FM19 match engine does have its flaws (which will hopefully be addressed in FM20), it's arguably in the best shape it's ever been in.

[alian62]

3 hours ago, RBKalle said:

I disagree.

The 3D game is indeed the end-result of match preparation etc, but its biggest issue isn't the graphical part. I wouldn't mind having Sensible Soccer-like sprites (with like 6 animations) if the ME itself did execute my intended gameplan to a tee. And if the TC instructions were as straightforward and effective as their label suggested.
Basically, give me a crappy 1999-style graphical rendition of a state-of-the-art Match Engine in terms of Input-Output. I set my team up to play narrow, possession oriented game? I don't want to see a cross, a long shot or hoofball. EVER. I set up my team to play urgent, direct hoofball toward my 6"6 target man? Great, I don't want to see pointless tiki-taka between my CMs, and the CF should never leave the box while we're in possession. And so on.
All that without needing to read 100 pages of educated guesses and insider's knowledge either.

 

Conversely, I couldn't give a rat's ass about having a FIFA25 presentation if the current ME quirks and flaws are still there... Top-level players not hitting a barn door, always choosing the wrong option even when it's not a tactical priority at all, long shots from absurd positions, awful crossing, forwards being too lazy and not attacking the box, defenders getting caught napping by 60m long balls etc...
If all of that is still present in the ME, what's the point of having it flawlessly animated with top-of-the-line technology?

 

As per your movie analogy, it's like spending 1billion on CGI and SFX for a movie with a 10-pages derivative script. Sure, it'll be visually pleasing, but the whole product is still flawed. Would you rather have a great story with ok visuals, or an awful story with awesome visuals?

A great story with awesome visuals.  I do pay for it ? 

[Lucas]

All this talk about what FM needs reminds me of the time one person told me what FM needed (when asked) was Michael Bay explosions in the match engine.

 

[CFuller]

19 minutes ago, Bradley21 said:

There really isn't any excuse for newgen faces being this bad, they don't even look human. I could rig up a 3D face randomiser pretty quickly that would give better results than whatever it is SI use for theirs. A successful company of SI's size, and with Sega's backing, should not be releasing such obviously sub-standard features year on year. A good chunk of my newgens are bald, half look like aliens, the other half look like an offensive stereotype of someone with learning difficulties, it just is not good enough.

 

It's the same ***** with the 3D pitches, people like to get up on their high-horse and say the graphics don't matter, FM is so much more than that, so much deeper, so much more sophisticated. Yeha, sure, it is, but it's also not 1999 anymore andgames as a medium have moved on far more than SI have with their design. Is having a ****** newgen face module or the same 3D engine going to stop me from buying next years game, of course not. But does it still bother me that SI are happy to sit on their hands and put out something with minor changes (improvements is not a word that fits) because they know people will still buy it, yes it absolutely does. It's the same mentality as EA has with FIFA, there's virtually no difference with EA and SI when it comes to the year-on-year iterations.

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole @herne79 says is "part of the problem". Anyway, if you really could create better newgen faces, why don't you ask SI for a job and put your talent where your mouth is?

And I find it laughable that you feel the need to compare SI to EA in that way. There have been so many improvements - GENUINE improvements - from FM14 to FM19 that I could spend a large chunk of my afternoon reeling them off. By contrast, you'd probably struggle to name a new feature in FIFA 19 Career Mode that FIFA 14 did not have.

Edited August 24, 2019 by CFuller

[CFuller]

1 minute ago, Lucas said:

All this talk about what FM needs reminds me of the time one person told me what FM needed (when asked) was Michael Bay explosions in the match engine.

Now where's that opponent-eating lion I was talking about on Page 1? I demand a lion substitute in FM20! 

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, RBKalle said:

Fine.

But for a football MANAGEMENT game, which one is the obvious priority?

a) state-of-the-art graphical engine on an outdated/quirky match engine
b) adequate (for its purpose) graphical engine on a state-of-the-art match engine

As I've said many times, I don't give a toss about how great the animation for a shot is, much less if said shot shouldn't have happened in the first place because it went against my entire tactical setup the ME decided to ignore (likely because most instructions are NOT what it says on the tin)

I honestly struggle to understand why this is even up for debate... It's like clamouring for a Civilization game to have Triple A-level graphics, a la Red Dead Redempion, God of War etch. Would it be cool? Sure. Is it necessary and worth investing time and resources? Hell no.

It has been explained before two different teams work on both so time spent on one should not effect time spent on the other.

[MrPompey]

1 hour ago, Bradley21 said:

There really isn't any excuse for newgen faces being this bad, they don't even look human. I could rig up a 3D face randomiser pretty quickly that would give better results than whatever it is SI use for theirs. A successful company of SI's size, and with Sega's backing, should not be releasing such obviously sub-standard features year on year. A good chunk of my newgens are bald, half look like aliens, the other half look like an offensive stereotype of someone with learning difficulties, it just is not good enough.

 

It's the same ***** with the 3D pitches, people like to get up on their high-horse and say the graphics don't matter, FM is so much more than that, so much deeper, so much more sophisticated. Yeha, sure, it is, but it's also not 1999 anymore andgames as a medium have moved on far more than SI have with their design. Is having a ****** newgen face module or the same 3D engine going to stop me from buying next years game, of course not. But does it still bother me that SI are happy to sit on their hands and put out something with minor changes (improvements is not a word that fits) because they know people will still buy it, yes it absolutely does. It's the same mentality as EA has with FIFA, there's virtually no difference with EA and SI when it comes to the year-on-year iterations.

Why not rig something up then - maybe SI will use yours going forwards

I agree though the regen faces do need some work sometimes the pitches look like a snooker table rather than a pitch. That said if SI had say 100 development points where would you prefer to spend them?

I'd go AI Squad building, ME or the graphical interpretation of the ME with some of players running in treacle, benny hill chases of player with ball, and see what can be done about some of the media conversations

[Bradley21]

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole @herne79 says is "part of the problem". Anyway, if you really could create better newgen faces, why don't you ask SI for a job and put your talent where your mouth is?

And I find it laughable that you feel the need to compare SI to EA in that way. There have been so many improvements - GENUINE improvements - from FM14 to FM19 that I could spend a large chunk of my afternoon reeling them off. By contrast, you'd probably struggle to name a new feature in FIFA 19 Career Mode that FIFA 14 did not have.

This is the typical response you see on this forum these days, and it's pretty sad. The "if you can do it then go ask SI for a job" comeback is so goddamned old and is just a really boring way of shifting focus to try and hide that fact that you have nothing interesting or reasonable to say. You're defending graphics that would look out of place from an early 2000's internal Alpha build, something i've seen many a time from being a literal games developer in the past. It is not my job to make anything for SI, it is their job to hire competent staff and focus their attention on improving their game, they don't need people shilling for them constantly with strawman replies devoid of any substance. 

 

Look, i'm no fan of EA or FIFA, I stopped buying that game quite a while ago now, but there are definitely parallels between the two companies in how they're fairly comfortable standing atop their hill of dominance. Your "GENUINE" improvements list may well be chunky over a five year period in which we have had five iterations release, but it does not contain half of what should be on it. We have the same ****-poor attempt at media and social interaction as we've had since it was first introduced, the questions they ask, the reactions, the timing of the questions, the tone system makes no practical sense and the repetition and lack of nuance is horrible. Player faces are pathetic, seriously pathetic in terms of whatever industry standards you look at in any genre for any developer size. The 3D ME has not been taken far enough in an era where people expect a bit more than SI deliver. Player interaction is horrendous with the constant new contract demands, huffy players getting mad and handing in transfer requests because you dared to tell them they had a good game after putting four past Barcelona or for praising their training effort. AI transfers are still awful, they are very hard to rationally defend in this years game and i fail to see how any of the "yearly improvements" one of the mods said up above are actually improvements. I could also rattle off a list far longer than this, but serves no purpose to people who play the game every year, we all know the myriad issues and corner-cuttings that go on. 

 

But yeah, we got a new purple skin and ten new player roles that do almost the same thing as the others. SI needs to give us large, tangible improvements rather than a bunch of small changes that add up to a nice long list, but don't actually make the game noticeably better in the long-term. 

[Novem9]

Inflamed with impatience in waiting for news about FM20 I realized next thing.

In view of SI really improve every next FM I can ignore some limitations but issue which robs me of pleasure to play is :

I can imagine that Bayern has any troubles and placed 4th in first season. But missed ChL zone?  Even Real Madrid which falled first half of season IRL finished in top4.

But for better understanding of my position - I talking about no club results, but truth between IRL managers like Pep, Klopp, etc. and their FM prototypes.

I noticed some issues like this with other clubs too. Especially Man City and Liverpool. And I dont know why, but Arsenal is most stable club in FM  Even after I decreased CA/PA and attributes of few players like Ozil and Iwobi.

But even this issue looks better in FM19, because the usual thing for FM18 for me is :

And I dont remind you FM17 where are even worse

 

So I hope next ME will even more consistent in this way and strong managers will no have unreasonable troubles and its will be a real rival 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Novem9

[Novem9]

37 минут назад, MrPompey сказал:

I agree though the regen faces do need some work sometimes the pitches look like a snooker table rather than a pitch. That said if SI had say 100 development points where would you prefer to spend them?

I'd go AI Squad building, ME or the graphical interpretation of the ME with some of players running in treacle, benny hill chases of player with ball, and see what can be done about some of the media conversations

I am not a party to your dispute , just note SI has separate teams for different parts of games like ME and Media.

So if somebody asking for some things, no sure what will it be reflected for some key cases like AI management or ME moves

[Lucas]

8 minutes ago, Bradley21 said:

This is the typical response you see on this forum these days, and it's pretty sad. The "if you can do it then go ask SI for a job" comeback is so goddamned old and is just a really boring way of shifting focus to try and hide that fact that you have nothing interesting or reasonable to say. You're defending graphics that would look out of place from an early 2000's internal Alpha build, something i've seen many a time from being a literal games developer in the past. It is not my job to make anything for SI, it is their job to hire competent staff and focus their attention on improving their game, they don't need people shilling for them constantly with strawman replies devoid of any substance. 

 

Look, i'm no fan of EA or FIFA, I stopped buying that game quite a while ago now, but there are definitely parallels between the two companies in how they're fairly comfortable standing atop their hill of dominance.

And the somewhat typical response to this stuff is to moan, say you're an armchair developer and question competency (this part is out of line) when you actually don't have knowledge of: 

• How FM really works
• What's involved in making what you're asking for
• What technical/legal/etc restrictions are involved 
• What target audience the game is aimed at (including system capabilities and minimum requirements)

So it's really not about people shilling, or people getting their megaphones out taking their points to extremes about what age they think the graphics look like.

It's ok to defend the game while acknowledging things could be better - this isn't people "shilling", this is actually providing worthwhile feedback.

What isn't is people going off on tangents making things up and calling it substance. You need to accept that you're an observer, in an armchair, any parallels you see between two private companies is based on only what you're allowed and able to know. This amounts to less than half of what actually goes into it, at the end of the day.

None of this posturing and snide remarks btw actually helps the discussion in any way, shape or form. It's not constructive. So please leave that out of the points that you're making.

[Svenc]

6 hours ago, RBKalle said:

Basically, give me a crappy 1999-style graphical rendition of a state-of-the-art Match Engine in terms of Input-Output. I set my team up to play narrow, possession oriented game? I don't want to see a cross, a long shot or hoofball. EVER. I set up my team to play urgent, direct hoofball toward my 6"6 target man? Great, I don't want to see pointless tiki-taka between my CMs, and the CF should never leave the box while we're in possession. And so on.

Whilst I agree with much of your Sentiment ("too compliacted UI and tactical decision process -- for the AI also, and not to its Benefit) : This won't ever come to pass for as Long as there is an opposing Manager who may proactively try to force your side to do just that. Pressing hard so that Players are forced to clear in the build up. Closing spaces so that even without every single attacking player crammed into the space of a tuna can and no Risk-free Option to recycle and rebuild, the Opposition may be succesfully forced to additionial Long shots. Closing the centre of the park, so that the only Options to penetrate are to go wide, etc.

It's one of the reasons why I'd like to go all that hogwash to go (tactical download sections regardless of any success….), as SI would have it much easier to balance the ME and be less distracted by nonsensical, adventurous combinations that may lead to horrible Play even if this were actual Football -- mind you, on the AI's end too.  

PS: I may be just that opposing manager from the first Paragraph as I vented Frustration numerous times before when Opposition after a patch / new release suddenly found it much easier to get into my box when defending Deep.

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Svenc