fm20 news

[rdbayly]

5 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I've said this quite a few times over the last few weeks, but I'll say it again. What might be a groundbreaking new feature to one user might mean absolutely nothing to another. That's fine; it's impossible to please all of the fanbase all of the time.

Something else I've been saying quite often recently is this. When somebody complains about the headline features not being headline features, I might ask, "What would have been a 'headline feature' for you?"

So, @QWERTYOP, just out of interest, "What would have been a 'headline feature' for you?"

My personal responses would be: Stadium editor, complete animation overhaul and expansion, advances in transfer and manager style AI.

Edited October 3, 2019 by rdbayly

[CFuller]

4 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

Could we maybe see / play the game first before writing its obituary?

The new Star Wars film is rubbish. Obviously, I haven't actually watched it yet, because it won't be released in cinemas until December, but from what I've read about the premise and the new cast members, it doesn't seem like it'll be even remotely as good as The Empire Strikes Back or even The Last Jedi.

That's basically what some people are saying about FM20.

[herne79]

@QWERTYOP Be disappointed all you like with the announcements so far, but I strongly suggest you rethink telling the hard working people at SI they are "half arsing" things.  That crosses a line.

[Neil Brock]

Posted this in another thread but think it's probably worth putting in here too.

Appreciate that people want to raise their opinions in regards to the features announced so far but whatever your perspective, please try and keep it respectful. As with every version of Football Manager an incredible amount of work goes on behind the scenes. There's always a host of improvements and changes which don't fall under 'features' which aren't really the types of things suited to social media announcements and the like which will make the game a more realistic, in-depth and authentic managerial experience. 

Nearly every area of the game has dedicated coders assigned to it all-year round so even if you feel an area you're interested in hasn't had much discussion that doesn't mean there won't be improvements and changes. 

Some of the features which have been discussed within the community just aren't practical for a host of reasons. Licencing currently restricts what we can do in regards to a number of aspects related to stadiums and there are practical reasons why we don't feel a 'youth team manager' option is really viable as Miles has explained in the past. The way if often works in football mean that in most scenarios the user manager would have extremely little to do - the formation/tactics can often come from the first team manager and they don't have any say in transfers. Realistically you'd be restricted to training and interactions with your squad. But even that would be limited as it's the first team manager who has the final decision of what a player's status is at a club. They don't even always get to choose the first XI as this can come from the first team manager as well. Plus add in the fact youth team managers aren't necessarily judged on results, but player development means it could be a really restrictive game mode. 

If we can find a way to do it which won't be incredibly restrictive maybe we will, but the reality is we have a lot more we want to do for future versions away from that which we think will benefit a larger number of our users. We only have a limited amount of resources so every minute of development time has to be carefully planned and accounted for. We're not always going to please everyone with our decisions but our goal is always the same - to create the best version of Football Manager possible. Please remember we're all fans too and strive to make a game we all want to play (for hours and hours and hours). 

Thanks. 

[bigmattb28]

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

The new Star Wars film is rubbish. Obviously, I haven't actually watched it yet, because it won't be released in cinemas until December, but from what I've read about the premise and the new cast members, it doesn't seem like it'll be even remotely as good as The Empire Strikes Back or even The Last Jedi.

That's basically what some people are saying about FM20.

This

[DementedHammer]

I'm actually starting to miss the old days when the first time I knew anything about the latest game was shortly after having installed it, set up my first game, and reached the main screen for the first time. 

That said, I did used to love reading the patch release notes. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by DementedHammer

[QWERTYOP]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

@QWERTYOP Be disappointed all you like with the announcements so far, but I strongly suggest you rethink telling the hard working people at SI they are "half arsing" things.  That crosses a line.

It's my opinion, and I'm perfectly entitled to it. You don't have to like that opinion. They wouldn't get away with "headline features" like this is they had genuine competition. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by QWERTYOP

[ChelseaSince86]

I like all the little changes so far.  We will all buy it because we love the game

 

If the game got to the stage where it was asking us to design the new stadium, or choose the ticket and hot dog prices and pick your sponsor, thats when i would start to shelve it.   It's not something a manager does, at all.  Choosing the new kit design etc... not for me

I hope they never ever get introduced into the game, but appreciate some people want them.  I hate the Instant Result option too and hoped that would be banished from existence, but thankfully the official skin does not contain this on full FM (phew)

[Cal585]

I'm confused why everyone is so up in arms about what the game will and won't do a month before release after only one round of announcements. Some people are complaining about the lack of completely new big features, others seem to be worried that they are focusing on the big stuff and ignoring the small details like the AI.

I would be quite happy with the features currently announced in addition to good improvements to things like the match engine, AI and squad building which won't be announced as a feature. Hype is all well and good, but I would much rather take a game that works well and improves upon what's come before and that's impossible to determine at this early stage.

[themadsheep2001]

49 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

It's my opinion, and I'm perfectly entitled to it. You don't have to like that opinion. They wouldn't get away with "headline features" like this is they had genuine competition. 

If your opinion is to be insulting, then you will lose the ability to post here. This isn't negotiable

[herne79]

35 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

It's my opinion, and I'm perfectly entitled to it. You don't have to like that opinion. They wouldn't get away with "headline features" like this is they had genuine competition. 

You're right, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.  Just as I'm perfectly entitled to point out when that opinion crosses the line into being disrespectful or rude (ie., telling SI they are "half arsing" things) and take action if the warning isn't heeded.

So, if you don't like something by all means say it.  I'm just trying to help you understand that if you express that opinion in a rude or disrespectful way you'll probably attract unwanted attention.

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, ChelseaSince86 said:

I like all the little changes so far.  We will all buy it because we love the game

 

If the game got to the stage where it was asking us to design the new stadium, or choose the ticket and hot dog prices and pick your sponsor, thats when i would start to shelve it.   It's not something a manager does, at all.  Choosing the new kit design etc... not for me

I hope they never ever get introduced into the game, but appreciate some people want them.  I hate the Instant Result option too and hoped that would be banished from existence, but thankfully the official skin does not contain this on full FM (phew)

Arsene Wenger had a significant imput into the design of the emirates and a close liason with the sponsors and also the food served in the players canteen, but I would agree that most mangers don't get involved, however most these days are head coaches rather than managers.  The game is called Football Manager not Football Head Coach

[saihtam]

11 hours ago, DementedHammer said:

I'm actually starting to miss the old days when the first time I knew anything about the latest game was shortly after having installed it, set up my first game, and reached the main screen for the first time. 

That said, I did used to love reading the patch release notes. 

Same here.

Buying games based on some PC magazing or the cover. Renting VHS or DVD just from reading the description and enjoying it so much more than seeing almost main stuff from trailers.

 

On football note I really loved what Pep said in the game and was wondering is this somehow implemented in game or should be? Not FM news, but just a thought.

 

Quote

Guardiola explained that his decision was made in order to have a Portuguese-speaking stopper next to right-back Joao Cancelo (£5.3m) to help guide him through the game:

"Because I wanted the support from right from Fernandinho because the communication with Joao is better.

Nico played many times on the left. Both can change."

 

[forameuss]

15 hours ago, rdbayly said:

‘Panned’ ??

Pure hyperbole originating from personal frustration.

Underwhelmed at the information so far? Absolutely.

Could we maybe see / play the game first before writing its obituary?

Now that's more accurate.  I can completely understand people being underwhelmed.  Hell, I've been personally pretty underwhelmed playing FM from my peak fun with 16.  But this "panning" is basically the same stuff that comes out with every edition from the same people.

[Footix]

FWIW I think it's impressive SI are still managing to come up with new features to this game series. The game is about being a football manager, there's only so much features you can add without going out of scope (a manager would never <insert random feature here>). 

Granted, this year's main "features" do sound a bit underwhelming, but again, what more can they realistically add. At this point so late in the game series I think it's more a matter of polishing and fine-tuning aspects of the game rather than adding new, large modules. 

[DP]

I don’t think they need to concentrate on ‘features’. It’s an outdated term in my opinion and leads to people questioning how many are being added. 
 

They should change the language to how they are generally improving the game - it’s far less emotive that way. Maybe they can then talk about the ME earlier as it’ll be based on general, iterative improvements rather than being in the shadow of traditional ‘feature’ chat. 
 

We don’t want features, we just want a great game that’s as good and immersive as possible. 

[Kingstontom88]

13 minutes ago, Footix said:

FWIW I think it's impressive SI are still managing to come up with new features to this game series. The game is about being a football manager, there's only so much features you can add without going out of scope (a manager would never <insert random feature here>). 

Granted, this year's main "features" do sound a bit underwhelming, but again, what more can they realistically add. At this point so late in the game series I think it's more a matter of polishing and fine-tuning aspects of the game rather than adding new, large modules. 

Where I'm at too. There's already liberties when you consider financials in contracts which would usually involve an MD/Chairman than a manager...bringing in stadium designing, for example, just takes you further away from a managerial role.

A time will surely come where refining the ME and a data update becomes the only update per addition.

[pearcey_90]

I have to say I'm not particularly wowed by the changes to FM so far, expect more. But end of the day, I get money worth out of the hours played so it's essentially £25-£30 for a squad update for me. Disappointed about there still being no option to manage reserve/youth sides, and it sounding like they won't bother any time soon   Really would add something to the journeyman/career save.

[zakbrown96]

Does seem odd not having an release date announcement but I guess that’s just me being so excited to play the game 😂

[Marcusme1981]

On 03/10/2019 at 18:16, QWERTYOP said:

I mean literally anywhere you care to mention. It's not hard to find. If anyone can remember a more widely panned upcoming FM release, I'd like to know, genuinely. Please don't misunderstand where I'm coming from - I WANT to be hyped for the new release! I WANT reason to buy it! But they've failed. I don't mind years when the new release isn't revolutionary. At all. In fact, I've previously said I don't like them changing things for the sake of it. But previously, even on years when the new game isn't a revamp, there's always been SOMETHING to grab my attention. Perhaps last years best selling point for me for example was the Germany license. But this year is just full of nothing. They've moved stuff around a bit and called that "headline features". I think the most telling thing about this years release is the understated nature of the "headline features" reveal. It's normally an all singing, all dancing affair when they're (understandably) shouting from the rooftops. This year, we had a quick post on social media and that was that. I think even they know this years features are really weak. I'm hoping against hope that S.I still have something up their sleeve to give me a reason to part with my 40 quid, but I will not just buy the new game like a zombie without a reason to. That will just further encourage them that they can get away with years like this. 

Come on, man! They are doing a twitter poll every day, now hidding some info about the feature. 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Marcusme1981

[FlorianAlbert9]

Il 3/10/2019 in 18:33 , CFuller ha scritto:

The new Star Wars film is rubbish. Obviously, I haven't actually watched it yet, because it won't be released in cinemas until December, but from what I've read about the premise and the new cast members, it doesn't seem like it'll be even remotely as good as The Empire Strikes Back or even The Last Jedi.

That's basically what some people are saying about FM20.

Yes, but...

You know for sure that It cannot be as good as The Empire. 

You know how Disney works. You have a lot of proof in their SW episode and in the MarvelStudios. It's quite impossible Disney changes.

You know that the next Rihanna's album will not be good as Beatles' Revolver. You don't have to wait for that.

There are 'premise'.

[Sussex Hammer]

Read parts of this thread with interest and it always fascinates me how there is such interest on new features when the most important part of the game, the ME, has some major issues that will hopefully be fixed in FM20.  For me if you could make the ME realistic enough and as good as it can be then I'd happily not have any new features in the game at all!!!  If you could sort out crossing, even if that meant centre backs heading away 90% of them rather than 90% unrealistically hitting full backs legs, and sort out the woeful movement and finishing of strikers that has plagued this version and create a game that allows as many logical formations as possible to potentially work rather than having certain formations that do and ones that don't in each incarnation of the ME then I would gladly take regen faces that look like something out of the Dawn of The Dead, a lack of stadium options or any other new fad that really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.   Although my one unimportant bug bear would be to tone down the cheering after a replay of a goal as it's louder and longer than when the goal is actually scored!!!!

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Read parts of this thread with interest and it always fascinates me how there is such interest on new features when the most important part of the game, the ME, has some major issues that will hopefully be fixed in FM20.  For me if you could make the ME realistic enough and as good as it can be then I'd happily not have any new features in the game at all!!!  If you could sort out crossing, even if that meant centre backs heading away 90% of them rather than 90% unrealistically hitting full backs legs, and sort out the woeful movement and finishing of strikers that has plagued this version and create a game that allows as many logical formations as possible to potentially work rather than having certain formations that do and ones that don't in each incarnation of the ME then I would gladly take regen faces that look like something out of the Dawn of The Dead, a lack of stadium options or any other new fad that really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.   Although my one unimportant bug bear would be to tone down the cheering after a replay of a goal as it's louder and longer than when the goal is actually scored!!!!

Your last sentence must mean they were waiting for VAR  lol

[CFuller]

3 hours ago, Stewart1111 said:

Serious question, do the markers of this game actually even read requested features from these forums? I genuinely haven't seen a single idea on here be put on to the actual game. Pretty much every new feature that has been announced could have LITERALLY just been added to the game via an update. I'm tired of it, I've been loyal for years but I'm not spending money every year for a game that's pretty much the same as the previous year, except this year we can create a 'five-year plan'. Explain to me why half the features that have been announced, if not all of them, can't just be added to the game with an update? Is it greed? I keep hearing they like the game to realistic, then explain why many of the realistic aspects of the game have NEVER been fixed, improved or even added to the game? Instead they worry more about the background colour of the game, which groovy font they're going to use this year, adding even more questions to press conferences when in fact most players skip it altogether. 

As FrazT said in your other post, SI do read all requested features and look to add those that they like. Miles himself has identified several new features that were drawn on user feedback.

So you reckon EVERY new feature could have been added via a patch? So they could easily have patched the development centre and the playing time pathway into FM19 in March, for example? Okay, sure...

I would consider replying to the rest of your rant, but it would be next to pointless, seeing as your idea of constructive criticism is just to constantly shout in bold text, "FIX IT!!!!" If you changed your posting style, though, I'm sure we could discuss your criticisms in an adult and productive manner.

[alian62]

3 hours ago, Stewart1111 said:

Serious question, do the markers of this game actually even read requested features from these forums? I genuinely haven't seen a single idea on here be put on to the actual game. Pretty much every new feature that has been announced could have LITERALLY just been added to the game via an update. I'm tired of it, I've been loyal for years but I'm not spending money every year for a game that's pretty much the same as the previous year, except this year we can create a 'five-year plan'. Explain to me why half the features that have been announced, if not all of them, can't just be added to the game with an update? Is it greed? I keep hearing they like the game to realistic, then explain why many of the realistic aspects of the game have NEVER been fixed, improved or even added to the game? Instead they worry more about the background colour of the game, which groovy font they're going to use this year, adding even more questions to press conferences when in fact most players skip it altogether. 

~ WHY has transfer deadline day still not been revamped after so long? I'm sure there is a way to make it as exciting as it is in real life. Why not have a live 60 minute clock ticking down without the need to press continue? If you take part of the transfer deadline you should feel UNDER PRESSURE to get a last minute signing. That's meant to be the whole idea of the transfer deadline. We could even have our inbox receving messages/offers/replies in REAL time. For example, you bid on a player, then between 1 to 60 minutes later (in real time) the club responds to your bid. Agents sending you messages, players demanding loan moves, everything should feel HECTIC on deadline day. Don't tell me that's not possible because we had the live coundown in the fantasy draft, so there's no reason why it can't implemented in career mode. 'Take Part or Decline' has been the same for years. It's dull, boring and brings no excitement. A live clock ticking down will give you that feeling that you need to hurry up and buy someone. This literally happens in real life. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY can't you just change the way Al managers bid on your players, because whenever I try to sell a player all of the AI managers will offer me the exact same amount. It's like the AI managers all contact each other before they place the exact same on my player, for example, I'll try to sell a player and amazingly I'll receive about 11 offers all the same (even clubs from different countries) £4.6 million plus 15% sell on fee, and £500,000 after the player has played 20 games. You would think the makers of this game would have noticed this and changed it to be a little more realistic. A different variety of offers isn't too much to ask for and it's something that's easily fixable. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY can't you add more details in international management because it literally hasn't changed since 2007. In fact, we've lost more features in international management if anything. WHY training doesn't exist in international management I'll never know. Players don't stop training when they go on international duty. I remember I had a World Cup save, but I couldn't reach past the quarter finals because all my players fitness were between 50-70% as I was unable to train them or rest them, but the players from other nations were all at 99-100% because AI managers were able to train them I assume, or after a match they automatically went to full fitness. Just ruins the game for me when something like that is again easily fixable. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY do my back up players keep demanding game time? The player signed a contract as a back up player. So why is he demanding I play him? I'll play him when I want. If anything, back up players should be requesting loan moves to get game time, or be happy to play when picked, why sign a back up contract if they're going to demand game time every 2 months? FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY can you only 'shout' once every 15 minutes in match time? In real life managers can shout at their players whenever they want, not once every 15 minutes. FIX IT!!!!
~ WHY is there no real relationship between you and your coaches? 
~ WHY is there no pep-talk before a penalty shootout? Like REAL managers, I want to be able to tell my players to relax, good luck, ignore the crowd taunting or tell them not to let the nerves get to you etc. Just what happens in real life, managers hyping up their players. FIX IT!!!!
~ WHY do players not put themselves forward for taking a penalty, or players deciding they don't want to take a penalty due to nervousness etc? Again, these things happen in real life. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY can't I force my senior players to train with the Under 20's if I feel they have a bad attitude or not performing to their standards, or making countless mistakes during games, or disrupting team unity, not letting them back into the squad until they've apologised to the squad. Discipline in this game needs to be expanded. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY hasn't a substitution icon on the proccessing tab during the match been added by now? There's already a little yellow/red card whenever a foul takes place, and a little football when a goal is scored, complete the set and just add a little red and green substitution icon, then we can hover it and it can show you which player has come on and which player has gone off, rather than having to go to player ratings to see when the other manager has made subs. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY after so many years can you still not let us use our salary? What's the point in giving me a salary if I can't do anything with it? Why not let us use our salary for things that real life managers would actually have to pay for. I don't know, let me see, maybe, paying for your coaching badges from your salary? Paying to actually go on holiday (pay a small amount to go on holiday for a certain amount of days. If you go on holiday for even longer, weeks/months then you need to pay even more out of your salary) pay for language courses if you're working in another country, you could make personal assistants in the game actual functioning staff and managers could hire or fire their own personal assistants (PA) there's many things we could do with salary's. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY are we allowed to hire/fire Directors of Football? What's the point in working with a Director of Football if you can hire or fire them whenever you want? Since when were managers allowed to hire/fire Directors of a football club? The board/chairmen decide this, not the manager. Managers DON'T run the whole club. Yes, I know you can turn this option off under the staff responsibilities, but it shouldn't be an option to begin with, period. Managers should only be allowed to suggest to the board that they fire a DoF or hire one, that's it. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY are players that get their debut or those that are trying to break in to the first team still looking 'complacent' or feeling 'complicated' surely they should be feeling proud, grateful, or see it as an opportunity to show off their skills. When do you ever see a player making his debut saying he felt 'complicated' and 'worried' they're always bursting with pride. FIX IT!!!!

~ WHY after so many years in a FOOTBALL MANAGER game can a club just pick up another manager as if that manager literally wasn't contracted to his previous club? If another club wants you as their manager but you're still under contract with your current club why isn't the board allowed to reject or accept the other clubs request for wanting you. We're missing a step in this process, the clubs need to start negotiating with each other. Clubs in real life can't just contact a manager from another club while he's under contract and the chairman/board of the original club get no say, they have to allow the manager permission to speak to the new club. Of course you can just resign if they reject another clubs approach for you, but these things happens in real life. If the club rejects the offer, and you're unable to talk to the other club, then you can offer an ultimatum, resign or discuss your demands if you're to stay. Chairmen in this game need WAY more power, because right now it feels as if the manager runs the whole club. I want to feel like I have a boss as well. FIX IT!!!!


But never mind fixing all the realism aspects of the game, we have new recyclable packaging guys, yayyy! (even though the majority of customers purchase through stream thus making the packaging entirely pointless for those that buy it online.) Forget about concentrating on making the game incredible and a huge milestone for 2020, lets just SAVE THE FISHES with our new recyclable packaging, yayyy! Such a disappointment so far this year, absolute claptrap. It's just an updated Football Manager 2019, except unlike other updates, you have to pay £40 for this one.  

Cam bet you 100 pound that many of the bugs from FM19 don't get fixed in FM20 as they didn't get fixed in FM19 from FM18 or FM17 . I agree that its becoming the same old thing every year with releases . Features taken out and adding so called new features that are just morphed into a new screen . Unfortunately with no real competition anymore with the demise of FIFA Manager there is no one to push them to make a better product . EA SPORTS and KONAMI push each other each year to make a better product .

In my opinion the game has become stagnant and boring . Its probably ok for newcomers as they have no comparison but for gamers who have bought this game since Championship Manager days etc its losing its way a bit ( my opinion ) 

We just don't want new features either as we want refinement of the features that are already there . How about Hotfixes for this game as they don't seem to exist ????? Yes we get upgrades but only up to 3 months after the release then its wait till next year in hope they get fixed !!!! 

I would like to see a review by a gaming website that isn't reviewed just after its release but say 6 months after for a more accurate account of the game .

Don't get me wrong ( Moderators ) I love this game but the future , for me anyway , with this franchise is looking dim .

Its demo for me this year and that will be a first

[alian62]

7 minutes ago, CFuller said:

As FrazT said in your other post, SI do read all requested features and look to add those that they like. Miles himself has identified several new features that were drawn on user feedback.

So you reckon EVERY new feature could have been added via a patch? So they could easily have patched the development centre and the playing time pathway into FM19 in March, for example? Okay, sure...

I would consider replying to the rest of your rant, but it would be next to pointless, seeing as your idea of constructive criticism is just to constantly shout in bold text, "FIX IT!!!!" If you changed your posting style, though, I'm sure we could discuss your criticisms in an adult and productive manner.

Cant you read frustration when you see it

[CFuller]

I understand why you would post in frustration... but this is not Twitter. This is not Reddit. While you're in the SI community, you are expected to post in a respectful and adult manner, and any criticism of the game should be constructive, not DEstructive. Frankly, there are too many people in this community who don't understand that.

[alian62]

4 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I understand why you would post in frustration... but this is not Twitter. This is not Reddit. While you're in the SI community, you are expected to post in a respectful and adult manner, and any criticism of the game should be constructive, not DEstructive. Frankly, there are too many people in this community who don't understand that.

I thought it was very constructive with some good points . FIX IT was a frustration but still has good points

[themadsheep2001]

Frustration is not and has not, ever been an excuse for unconstructive posting and rudeness. 

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, prot651 said:

I thought it was very constructive with some good points . FIX IT was a frustration but still has good points

No, yelling fix it is not constructive by any means. Half of these are actually subjective and one of these (spending wages) is something SI have actively said they do not want to do. 

[themadsheep2001]

Also, November to March isn't 3 months...

[alian62]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Frustration is not and has not, ever been an excuse for unconstructive posting and rudeness. 

A shame you cant see it for what it is rather than focusing on one aspect of the post . Rudeness comes in all forms doesn't it ? Why don't you comment on his actual feelings about the game rather than saying its just rude ?  . As a moderator you should be offering help and answers to his problems .  Ok it was 5 months then but again you focused on one thing !! . What is wrong with a hotfix when clearly something is wrong with the game rather than waiting until the next instalment . 

[themadsheep2001]

20 minutes ago, prot651 said:

A shame you cant see it for what it is rather than focusing on one aspect of the post . Rudeness comes in all forms doesn't it ? Why don't you comment on his actual feelings about the game rather than saying its just rude ?  . As a moderator you should be offering help and answers to his problems .  Ok it was 5 months then but again you focused on one thing !! . What is wrong with a hotfix when clearly something is wrong with the game rather than waiting until the next instalment . 

There are no answers, they are also subjective requests, not objective issues. Yelling fix it is not helpful and isn't going to get anyone listening to him. 

Why comment on his feelings? Everyone has different views on what they want from the game, some contrary to others want and what SI wants. 

Hotfixs aren't just something you can pull out and boom it's done. Not everything can be hot fixed. There's not always the time or resources. 

[Svenc]

The request for a "more realistic" ME seems quite common. However, how About the request for "Realistic match Management"? I'd be very concerned if some of the stuff human Managers and AI on this game do in These Terms, the game were to fully replicate "realistic" Football. Both statistically (number of shots, blocks, woodworks, Goals, what have you) -- as well as the Play that transpires.

I've Always been a Proponent of being creative, and thinking outside of the box. My love for such is one of the reasons my Avatar is from the game Dishonored II. However, if we are arguing "actual Football"; the Framework in Terms of Input as to FM also has to become far more narrow than it is. If it won't, not only may it be impossible to recreate an actually "realistic" General match experience -- the tactical Gameplay of the game could be further described as: garbage in, garbage out. After all, actual managers make "realistic" decisions -- even if they may midjudge situations.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Svenc

[CFuller]

8 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

You know that the next Rihanna's album will not be good as Beatles' Revolver. You don't have to wait for that.

What an odd comparison to make. It's like saying that you're certain Cyberpunk 2077 will not be as good as Donkey Kong. Two completely different titles from completely different genres that were made decades apart.

[herne79]

@Stewart1111

You know you may actually have some valid points to make.  The problem is that when you choose to make those points in a somewhat aggressive manner, using bold lettering, capitals, exclamation marks, asking questions in a rather accusatory fashion ("why haven't you..."), making demands ("fix it") and finishing with sarcasm ("recycled packaging, yayyy") all you're actually doing is wasting your own time because your points will be ignored.

I get you're frustrated and I happen to agree with some of your sentiments (eg., I agree it does seem odd when we get 3 identical bids for the same player from different teams) but posting angry won't get the people who matter (ie., SI) to listen to you - in fact the exact opposite will probably happen.  Your post may get some upvotes, you may also get others raising eyebrows and talking about rants, but the only thing that really matters to try to affect change is to get SI listening - and that's unlikely if you post in the manner you have done.

[themadsheep2001]

14 minutes ago, herne79 said:

@Stewart1111

You know you may actually have some valid points to make.  The problem is that when you choose to make those points in a somewhat aggressive manner, using bold lettering, capitals, exclamation marks, asking questions in a rather accusatory fashion ("why haven't you..."), making demands ("fix it") and finishing with sarcasm ("recycled packaging, yayyy") all you're actually doing is wasting your own time because your points will be ignored.

I get you're frustrated and I happen to agree with some of your sentiments (eg., I agree it does seem odd when we get 3 identical bids for the same player from different teams) but posting angry won't get the people who matter (ie., SI) to listen to you - in fact the exact opposite will probably happen.  Your post may get some upvotes, you may also get others raising eyebrows and talking about rants, but the only thing that really matters to try to affect change is to get SI listening - and that's unlikely if you post in the manner you have done.

This. Users want discourse, and rightly so. But you can only get that when you allow for it. No one at SI is going to read that and think "those are some interesting subjective points" because you've lost them immediately. Think everyone should take that on board before they press reply on a post 

[FlorianAlbert9]

1 ora fa, CFuller ha scritto:

What an odd comparison to make. It's like saying that you're certain Cyberpunk 2077 will not be as good as Donkey Kong. Two completely different titles from completely different genres that were made decades apart.

You miss the point. 

It isn't a comparison.

You can change Beatles with "good album with a personal vision" or with whatever you want.

The point Is that if somebody has always made a same thing in years, you can say he/She/It will make the next thing in the same way again.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by FlorianAlbert9

[Mr U Rosler]

A lot of talk here about dissapointing new 'Features', I for one don't want any new features, and the yearly clamour for them is probably not very helpful. 

Will new features still be added in FM2050 or will we be done by then? Is there a finite number of features that could be included in a football sim or is it infite, at what point does adding features yearly become detrimental to the gaming experience? 

Whilst I'm sure I'm in a small minority, I'd like SI to ring fence the game, THIS is our game, Tactics, Training, AI, Squad Building, a Transfer Market simulation, Graphical Representation, Me, UI etc, etc. Stating we're not adding new features, but by God, we are going to polish the hell out of what we already have. 

Instead, we seem to be in a yearly race to the bottom, marketing to the bottom feeders on YouTube, Reddit and Instagram in the hope that we can somehow please them. 

I long for the days, through rose tinted glasses no doubt, when FM was a niche product and they were not preoccupied with try to please the widest audience possible. 

[Sussex Hammer]

27 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

A lot of talk here about dissapointing new 'Features', I for one don't want any new features, and the yearly clamour for them is probably not very helpful. 

Will new features still be added in FM2050 or will we be done by then? Is there a finite number of features that could be included in a football sim or is it infite, at what point does adding features yearly become detrimental to the gaming experience? 

Whilst I'm sure I'm in a small minority, I'd like SI to ring fence the game, THIS is our game, Tactics, Training, AI, Squad Building, a Transfer Market simulation, Graphical Representation, Me, UI etc, etc. Stating we're not adding new features, but by God, we are going to polish the hell out of what we already have. 

Instead, we seem to be in a yearly race to the bottom, marketing to the bottom feeders on YouTube, Reddit and Instagram in the hope that we can somehow please them. 

I long for the days, through rose tinted glasses no doubt, when FM was a niche product and they were not preoccupied with try to please the widest audience possible. 

Absolutely this.....  I didn't buy FM18 and only bought 19 back in May after a really enjoyable two years playing 17 which IMO was damned close ME wise.  Sure it had it's issues but at least crosses didn't hit the legs of defenders every time and strikers actually moved and scored!!  The UI was easy on the eyes and mouse and in general it was a very good game.  I play FMT by the way.  I bought FM19 because I was hopeful of a leap forward but have been really disappointed.  That's the frustration, I cannot see the point of constant "new features" if the heartbeat of the game takes two steps back from a version two years prior.  There should be a progression and upward line of progress each incarnation getting better and better and I haven't seen that in the leap from 17 too 19.  I can talk to my television these days and watch various apps via it without having to pfaff about with a USB stick or ethernet cable but if the picture wasn't as good as my 2007 Sony I wouldn't be happy!!

Edited October 6, 2019 by Sussex Hammer

[CFuller]

58 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Absolutely this.....  I didn't buy FM18 and only bought 19 back in May after a really enjoyable two years playing 17 which IMO was damned close ME wise.  Sure it had it's issues but at least crosses didn't hit the legs of defenders every time and strikers actually moved and scored!!  The UI was easy on the eyes and mouse and in general it was a very good game.  I play FMT by the way.  I bought FM19 because I was hopeful of a leap forward but have been really disappointed.  That's the frustration, I cannot see the point of constant "new features" if the heartbeat of the game takes two steps back from a version two years prior.  There should be a progression and upward line of progress each incarnation getting better and better and I haven't seen that in the leap from 17 too 19.  I can talk to my television these days and watch various apps via it without having to pfaff about with a USB stick or ethernet cable but if the picture wasn't as good as my 2007 Sony I wouldn't be happy!!

As far as I could see, there were no major issues with crosses or strikers on FM19 (in each of my ten seasons across my last two saves, I consistently had a striker as my top scorer, and my wingers and wing-backs were very effective). My main bugbear was the high number of suicidal defensive headers, which I'd like to think will be addressed in FM20.

A lot of people like to hail FM17 as the gold standard of FM's match engine, but it was by no means perfect. That game still had the long-standing "too many crosses flying into the net or hitting the woodwork" issue which was prevalent from FM13 onwards until about FM18. As far as I can remember, wingers didn't work properly either, making narrow tactics the way to go.

My point is that we all see FM's match engine differently, for better or worse. Don't assume that everyone has the same experience as you.

Edited October 6, 2019 by CFuller

[FlorianAlbert9]

1 ora fa, Mr U Rosler ha scritto:

A lot of talk here about dissapointing new 'Features', I for one don't want any new features, and the yearly clamour for them is probably not very helpful. 

Will new features still be added in FM2050 or will we be done by then? Is there a finite number of features that could be included in a football sim or is it infite, at what point does adding features yearly become detrimental to the gaming experience? 

Whilst I'm sure I'm in a small minority, I'd like SI to ring fence the game, THIS is our game, Tactics, Training, AI, Squad Building, a Transfer Market simulation, Graphical Representation, Me, UI etc, etc. Stating we're not adding new features, but by God, we are going to polish the hell out of what we already have. 

Instead, we seem to be in a yearly race to the bottom, marketing to the bottom feeders on YouTube, Reddit and Instagram in the hope that we can somehow please them. 

I long for the days, through rose tinted glasses no doubt, when FM was a niche product and they were not preoccupied with try to please the widest audience possible. 

You're right. 

But i think all the new features we want are actually a better modelling of the same things you want to have polished. So we all want the same.

Imho the most important areas are:

Match Engine - we are at good level

Tactics - good level

Training - good level

Player development - poor level

Enviroment (recreating the football world at emotional level) - very poor level (at now there is no difference in played a World Cup match or an hungarian second Division match. We don't feel fan. We don't know legacy of legendary player. We don't feel the media/fan attention about star players. Etc....)

Details and stats - very good level

Transfer Market - normal level

AI - poor level

Graphical rappresentation (animation) - very poor level 

Longevity - very good level to infinity level.

 

 

[FlorianAlbert9]

8 minuti fa, CFuller ha scritto:

As far as I could see, there were no major issues with crosses or strikers on FM19 (in each of my ten seasons across my last two saves, I consistently had a striker as my top scorer, and my wingers and wing-backs were very effective). My main bugbear was the high number of suicidal defensive headers, which I'd like to think will be addressed in FM20.

A lot of people like to hail FM17 as the gold standard of FM's match engine, but it was by no means perfect. That game still had the long-standing "too many crosses flying into the net or hitting the woodwork" issue which was prevalent from FM13 onwards until about FM18. As far as I can remember, wingers didn't work properly either, making narrow tactics the way to go.

My point is that we all see FM's match engine differently, for better or worse. Don't assume that everyone has the same experience as you.

I disagree. 

A real test for the ME is the AI's matches, nor only the human ones.

And about strikers, how many times did you see AI capable of keep the same goals numbers of real world?

I never see Messi or Ronaldo in game make half the goal the made in real. 

Oh, i like the fm19 match engine, but there are many steps to do regard strikers.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by FlorianAlbert9

[Svenc]

33 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

A real test for the ME is the AI's matches, nor only the human ones.

And about strikers, how many times did you see AI capable of keep the same goals numbers of real world?

I never see Messi or Ronaldo in game make half the goal the made in real. 

Oh, i like the fm19 match engine, but there are many steps to do regard strikers.

 

Was partially what I was on About. You cannot expect a "realistic" gameworld, yet at the same time don't "Limit" / Code the Managers to make realistic Management decisions. (Which may also make testing the ME for issues easier… oft there's an overlap, mind).

- How often do you see Teams rigidly parking the bus and shutting up shop completely against Real Madrid a) In-game, b) in actual Football? The AI's shut up shop tactics are arguably much more extreme than what a Team in Football faces from my end; plus applied far too readily. In actual football, Eibar may have a real go at Madrid, and be it for bursts of a match. In-game, they'd simply pray for the best. Therefore, it would be a bad sign as of the ME's Integrity if Teams would score the same amount of Goals as in real Football.

- How often does the AI ever make Messi/Ronaldo the focal Point of attacks, as in their respective Teams? Even Looking at simple data, which is the attempts they have per match (Messi 5, Ronaldo a whopping 7). That's Always been possible (numerous threads as to how to make Messi score Messi-like), however, it required match planning specifically build towards such. If Teams would just Need to put them on the field someplace, and they'd score the amounts they would in real Football, that too arguably were a bad sign as of the ME's Integrity. However, Managers would Need be given the Tools / match plans that may make them such focal Points of attacks… for better, and on the Occasion (in Terms of a slump), worse. 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Svenc

[Sussex Hammer]

1 hour ago, CFuller said:

As far as I could see, there were no major issues with crosses or strikers on FM19 (in each of my ten seasons across my last two saves, I consistently had a striker as my top scorer, and my wingers and wing-backs were very effective). My main bugbear was the high number of suicidal defensive headers, which I'd like to think will be addressed in FM20.

A lot of people like to hail FM17 as the gold standard of FM's match engine, but it was by no means perfect. That game still had the long-standing "too many crosses flying into the net or hitting the woodwork" issue which was prevalent from FM13 onwards until about FM18. As far as I can remember, wingers didn't work properly either, making narrow tactics the way to go.

My point is that we all see FM's match engine differently, for better or worse. Don't assume that everyone has the same experience as you.

Oh absolutely I'm not assuming that everyone has the same experience, I'm putting my opinion forward from several saves and various tactics and IMO I've struggled with striker movement or the lack of it and too many crosses being delayed and hitting defenders legs.  Which is why I said I would rather have crosses played in with defenders heading them out constantly rather than the issues I have seen.  Great that you haven't had those issues, I'd love to see and try your tactic which avoids these problems to see where I may be going wrong.  Interestingly I have tried varied crossing strategies and frankly don't see the difference between low, mixed or floated and when using a TM with crosses aimed at middle crosses still either hit the legs or fly over to the opposite wide player who interestingly are always my top scorers so there are some benefits!!  Of course that could be tactics, player quality or any number of things but they are the issues I have faced and I have read others have similar issues.

Of course 17 wasn't without it's issues and yes narrow formations were the way to go which is why I ended up with a 4132 which played very nicely but can't hit a cows arse with a banjo with it in this version and 442's and 4141's are the way to go for many although I play a 4411.  My point is that it's a shame that new features seem to be so important when a polishing of the ME should be at the top of the priorities.  It would be great if we could have an ME when wide, narrow, pressing, standing off, whatever could all be usable within the ME if they are logical rather than have to tailor your ideas to what works and what doesn't in each incarnation.   

Edited October 6, 2019 by Sussex Hammer

[deaks500]

My thoughts on the new features announcements -

Great stuff im sure they will be super useful , at this point i'm happy to have quality of life changes and  a bit more polish every year for the features that are there .

Im not super clever enough to see whats go gravely bad about the ME , when someone says the ME is terrible this year, i honestly don't see why! Yeah sure there are times ive been close to rage quitting a match as i think the game is 'FMing' me, but that's exactly the same as when i watch a real match and my team do something ridiculous - that's football - frustrating at times. 

Sure there are things id like to see in the game, and im sure they will be implemented over the course of the next few years or however long the series lasts when its possible but until then i'm happy to tick over year after year with improvements and not flying off the handle every year (cos a full back scored from the touch line twice in a season therefore its broke and rubbish and im not playing again wahh! wahh!)

For the price what £30-£35 at most for hundreds of hours is the most value for money entertainment (which is what it is mind) i can think of.

[FlorianAlbert9]

48 minuti fa, Svenc ha scritto:

Was partially what I was on About. You cannot expect a "realistic" gameworld, yet at the same time don't "Limit" / Code the Managers to make realistic Management decisions. (Which may also make testing the ME for issues easier… oft there's an overlap, mind).

- How often do you see Teams rigidly parking the bus and shutting up shop completely against Real Madrid a) In-game, b) in actual Football? The AI's shut up shop tactics are arguably much more extreme than what a Team in Football faces from my end; plus applied far too readily. In actual football, Eibar may have a real go at Madrid, and be it for bursts of a match. In-game, they'd simply pray for the best. Therefore, it would be a bad sign as of the ME's Integrity if Teams would score the same amount of Goals as in real Football.

- How often does the AI ever make Messi/Ronaldo the focal Point of attacks, as in their respective Teams? Even Looking at simple data, which is the attempts they have per match (Messi 5, Ronaldo a whopping 7). That's Always been possible (numerous threads as to how to make Messi score Messi-like), however, it required match planning specifically build towards such. If Teams would just Need to put them on the field someplace, and they'd score the amounts they would in real Football, that too arguably were a bad sign as of the ME's Integrity. However, Managers would Need be given the Tools / match plans that may make them such focal Points of attacks… for better, and on the Occasion (in Terms of a slump), worse. 

 

But the AI managers of top club have to know how make Ronaldo scores. 

In Madrid Ronaldo have Mourinho, Ancelotti, Zidane and he always scores.

I would love see that the AI Zidane, Mourinho, Ancelotti etc ... Know as make Ronaldo scores.

But that is never happened for poor ai modelling (and some me issue)

Football Manager gave us the wrongly feeling that to be a top club manager is easy, 'cause in game we have a totally bad (Easy) level of difficulty (for human players)

Edited October 6, 2019 by FlorianAlbert9

[Chris21]

@Stewart1111 makes some really good points in his post to be fair. Can see why the mods don't like the manner of it in some places but some of his points are completely spot on and very frustrating. I'm not gonna sit here and say things are easy to sort out because when have I ever made a computer game ffs but the bids point he makes is probably the best one. How that continues to be overlooked each year is really baffling

Edited October 6, 2019 by Chris21

[higgins]

5 ore fa, CFuller ha scritto:

As far as I could see, there were no major issues with crosses or strikers on FM19 (in each of my ten seasons across my last two saves, I consistently had a striker as my top scorer, and my wingers and wing-backs were very effective). My main bugbear was the high number of suicidal defensive headers, which I'd like to think will be addressed in FM20.

A lot of people like to hail FM17 as the gold standard of FM's match engine, but it was by no means perfect. That game still had the long-standing "too many crosses flying into the net or hitting the woodwork" issue which was prevalent from FM13 onwards until about FM18. As far as I can remember, wingers didn't work properly either, making narrow tactics the way to go.

My point is that we all see FM's match engine differently, for better or worse. Don't assume that everyone has the same experience as you.

Yep, misplaced defensive headers were a thing in FM19

[99]

Em 06/10/2019 em 04:16, Stewart1111 disse:

Serious question, do the markers of this game actually even read requested features from these forums? I genuinely haven't seen a single idea on here be put on to the actual game. Pretty much every new feature that has been announced could have LITERALLY just been added to the game via an update. I'm tired of it, I've been loyal for years but I'm not spending money every year for a game that's pretty much the same as the previous year, except this year we can create a 'five-year plan'. Explain to me why half the features that have been announced, if not all of them, can't just be added to the game with an update? Is it greed? I keep hearing they like the game to realistic, then explain why many of the realistic aspects of the game have NEVER been fixed, improved or even added to the game? Instead they worry more about the background colour of the game, which groovy font they're going to use this year, adding even more questions to press conferences when in fact most players skip it altogether. 

You have such a collection of good ideas that it's a shame they are included in such a terribly constructed post. Just my opinion.

Edited October 7, 2019 by 99