Frustrated beyond belief

[shafi]

I play a 4-1-2-1-2 formation and had a similar problem with my strikers, so i dropped my mentality of my FCa so that it is 3 notches more than my midfield and only 1-2 notches more than my AMC and FCd, also i leave both of my strikers on mixed FWr. I have found this to be working well as my strikers are all starting to score regularly.

So far i am in my 3rd season with roma and i have played 32 games won 24 and drawn 8 lost 0. I have scored 70 goals and concended 16. My biggest win being 7-0 twice. I am really enjoying the football that my team plays as i often get messages of "now thats football" and once i had "it really takes your breath away, slick passing and movement" which i had never seen before.

My 3 strickers are Vucinic, Aguero and Marquinhos with Matias Fernandez in the AMC role.

[lougehrig]

You've had the game for what? 5 days and you want to be good at it already? Is that reasonable?

[Bigshow1985]

hey guys, i was getting all these problems untill i went through the game thoroughly unlike the games before and thought about a few things. the tactics in this game and problems are what occur irl. so i done this.............

1. signed players that could speak english(with the exception of 1 player), as assistant kept telling me players were having trouble communicating.(which is a must in footy).

2. altered my training and had my team training with higher tactic training involved.

3. scrapped altering ''team mentality'' and done each player individualy, making the notches no more than 3 apart from defence and midfield to keep them closer together and same with midfield and forwards.( until they are gelled sufficiently at least.)

4.kept a close a eye on when the opponent makes changes to formations and subs, as when a sub comes on the opposition instructions u had set on the player that went off dont carry over to the player thats just came on.

im playing a 4-4-2 with the following team.

SPURS:

GK-Gomes

DR-Hutton

DL-Kolarov

DC-Lescott

DC-Corluka

MR-Bentley

ML-Modric

MC-Arteta

MC-L.Diarra

FW-Yakubu

FW-Owen

started the season well, a little on the cautious side as its a new team, but be more attacking once they have blended together.

played 7, won 6, drawn one(home to arsenal).

hope this helps, as iv spent the last 4 days pulling my hair out like u guys.

[Falastur]

Have to say I agree with much of what was said on the first page, and I'm struggling pretty badly at tactics. After having a decent start to the season with Man City, I fear I've hit a dead spot in my performances the same as I tend to hit every single season I play this game, from FM07 when I started playing more regularly. I made a decent-ish tactic which saw me narrowly lose to Arsenal and Liverpool (could've won either of those games) home and away respectively, and get through six UEFA Cup games very comfortably. However, now I've been drawn at home against a West Brom in 16th place on a bad run of form and with morale wavering around "OK" for the most part. My players are all feeling good and performing well even when they lose, and yet I played the West Brom game and though the scoreline was close (2-1) they ran all over me. In a fit of frustration and anger (which I tend to get when I suffer stupid defeats like this) I restarted the game to try it again. The score was 2-1 again, but they still had the run of me. So I tried a few more times, I varied tactics, played different players, set up different team instructions. Then I read this thread, hunted down and read the TT&F pdf, and tried out a new tactic based on its advise. The difference? Nothing...I'm still being somewhat mauled by them, but it seems to be getting worse. Despite having a decent share of possession (over 50% for most of the match) during the highlights I just can't seem to deprive them of the ball, nor can I build up play long enough to get a goal.

As fits with what people were saying early on when this thread was started, the crux of the matter appears to be this: my players, no matter what settings I give them, sit back and don't close down well at all, especially outside of defence. I also have another problem, which is directly the source of most of their goals - they tend to play long balls (and occasionally short too) to their strikers, who have a disturbing knack of being able to round my defence and then have a free run on goal. I'd be happy to ignore the other problems if I could solve this one because it's happened a lot, and not just in the West Brom games - I can't seem to do anything about stopping strikers who are counter-attacking and charging my goal. If my defenders are close to the strikers, then instead the striker will go into them, evade a tackle (or occasionally sidestep) and have a free run to go one-on-one with the goalkeeper, and when this happens they have a disturbingly high chance of scoring (my keepers seem to be able to save about 1 in 4 of these situations, which seems out of line with reality to be honest). On the odd occasion that the other CB gets to them in time, they seem to have a good chance of just dodging the second tackle, too. This is especially galling since my defenders have good tackling scores, and yet are lucky to pull off 30% of the tackles they make during highlights (during regular play outside of the highlights, their tackling percentages are fine). If the defenders hold back, the strikers will push them back slowly(ish) and then seem to find the perfect angle to shoot from the edge of the box and score when they are close enough. I'm not accusing the AI of being biased, but it seems that West Brom have an uncanny ability to do exactly what my team can't do, yet with worse players...

To be honest, I'm stumped. Then again, while I understand football reasonably well, FM tactics often seem to go straight over my head. If anyone could give me any advise, I'd be grateful, because this little situation has me flummoxed, and it's irritating me.

Speech over. Sorry, but I like elaborating

Edit: I finally managed to win the game, ironically by a 2-1 scoreline, playing a sweeper behind the defence at the expense of an AMC. However, West Brom were still all over me with 52% of the possession, 13 shots to my 9, and looked like equalising for the whole of the second half. At one point a striker yet again picked up the ball in midfield and passed my sweeper as if he wasn't there, shooting over the bar thankfully. I've saved the game but if I get feedback I'd like to replay it a few times more and see if I can find a system which corrects my mistakes more consistently...

[Adam.S]

after not losing the first 3 of the games ive lost 8 in a row. Very very angry........7 goals in 10 dont create any chances.

[swede]

@Falastur,

I know how you feel! One of the reasons for me starting this thread was for others to share their experiences and perhaps get from people like wwfan who obviously have a deeper understanding of the underlying mechanics that make this game tick. Now that I have managed to string at least three victories together in the league I feel confident enough to say that I think my problem was that I was a bit too optimistic in terms of judging the capabilities of my team. I should have been even more restrictive in my tactics and not use the Normal mentality as set in the TT&F !4-4-2Standard (the tactics were modified as per wwfan's suggestions a few pages back). When I switched to the Defense set-up I got tonked my Man Utd. I should probably have overloaded the midfield instead of going with a straight 4-4-2 in order to restrict space. In sheer deperation I stuck with the defensive tactics, even against lesser oponents such as Sunderland.

I do consider Sunderland to be a worse team than my Villa side even if they are ahead of me in the league. The thing is that it worked. I seemed to control the matches better and the defensive mistakes seemed to be reduced when playing with Defensive tactic. One thing I saw quite often using the Standard set was that my defenders (especially Curtis Davies and my full backs) seemed to mess up interceptions, leaving the opposition with free chances. They also seemed to allow the opponents too much time on the ball even if the match engine showed them standing virtually on top of the scorer. At the other end, my attackers really struggled to create decent chances in similar positions. If the opponents defenders were standing on top of them, they got tackled off the ball or screened from making a good attempt on goal.

My suggestion would be to drop back and be more conservative in your tactics until things turn around. But then again, if you read this thread from the beginning, you will see that I am probably the last person you should take tactical advice from. In this case though, I'm merely relaying the information wwfan provided me with. And he is sort of decent when it comes to this tactical stuff.

[swede]

NOOOO!!!!! Something happened to my save game last night. Either I was so tired that I answered wrong when prompted to save before quitting or my save game was corrupted. I have lost all progress and I'm back at the beginning of the season just before the Everton game. Things really aren't going my way at all...

[swede]

Well, that went to hell in a moment. Everton beat the living crap out of us score wise, 1-3. Firstly, Brad Friedel and Curtis Davies are really, really useless. They cost us for all three goals, and they are responsible for loosing. We had good chances, didn't take them, and since we simply can't defend against players with good heading ability, Yobo was allowed a complete free chance to score their second. Their first (which was the equaliser) was score by Neville from 30 yards. A weak shot Friedel should have stopped. Neville got the chance because Friedel spilled a shot straight out to the opposition. The decider came from Osman who smashed in an angled screamer into the top corner from 35 yards. To add insult to injury, Ashely Young got clattered by Neville and was stretchered off. He won't be back for a month. Yay...

[swede]

I reversed the results from my lost save. Last time I drew Everton at home 1-1 and lost to Wigan away 3-1. Now I drew with Wigan 1-1. Annoyingly enough we enjoyed the most possession but in terms of shots it was pretty even. What is even more annoying is the bloody long range screamers I seem to suffer from! Zaki unleashed a fierce, curling shot straight into the top corner despite being put under pressure by pub player Curtis Davies (God, he gets worse with time the little ******). We seem to get lots of opportunities for long shots too, but usually fluff them, floating pathetic little ballooners into the stands. Once Cuellar has recovered I will drop Davies and never, ever play him again. He will join Friedel in the gimp cellar and be sold for £1 in January (if I'm still Villa boss by then).

[Falastur]

@Swede: Thanks, I'll try it but some of the tactics I was trying after several games were really quite conversative. I was playing with two DMs at one point and while I outweighed them in my half they just started hoofing it up the pitch from defence, whereupon their strikers were still very capable of winning the ball in the aerial challenges and then ghosting through my defence to score.

And in exchange for your advise, might I suggest some of my own: I usually keep three or so saves for every big game I play, and alternate every so often just incase something does happen to the save. That way, the most you'll ever have to replay is half a month/a month or thereabouts, depending on how often you rotate. Just think of it as doing a Rafa Benitez with your saves

Incidentally, as per my last comment, I carried on using the sweeper system and managed a surprising 3-1 win away against Napoli in the UEFA Cup group stages. I was hoping for a draw but in the second half I just clogged up the Napoli attack while scoring two wonderful but somewhat lucky goals. I then managed a droll draw away against West Ham, but I could and perhaps should have won that game. I'm thinking that I'm not being helped by the fact that Ben-Haim is not the best defender in my team, though he is the only one capable of playing sweeper.

[Rittings]

Hear hear... No fun whatsoever. I think they lost the concept that this is a GAME and some of us can't spend our entire lives trying to work things out. I think it's about time there were difficulty settings, better default tactics.... and some of the old Champ Man fun we used to have...

I remember I used to invite my mates around and we'd play for hours upon hours... I now play alone (the only way to actually finish a season) and I find myself angry and frustrated when I get into bed. My wife wants me to melt the disk before I melt myself.

[Yasko75]

Hear hear... No fun whatsoever. I think they lost the concept that this is a GAME and some of us can't spend our entire lives trying to work things out. I think it's about time there were difficulty settings, better default tactics.... and some of the old Champ Man fun we used to have...

I remember I used to invite my mates around and we'd play for hours upon hours... I now play alone (the only way to actually finish a season) and I find myself angry and frustrated when I get into bed. My wife wants me to melt the disk before I melt myself.

I know many old timers that have stopped playing the game since this CM4 series and the slider system. People just finds it too complicated and difficult.

[swede]

Another day, another loss. Well not just losses, but still. Beat Kalmar in the UEFA Cup 4-1, so Villa is through to the 3rd Quals. Pretty good for such a shitty manager! Then we improved the result against Man Utd slightly, a 3-0 loss with Rooney being silly good. Quite a player that. Next up Fulham at home. Must win really.

[robmontie1965]

Easy passes bouncing off the heels of my players, going straight to the opposition? Seriously, my lads are clueless, which isn't surprising considering how I feel about it. When on the attack mystrikers gets swamped by several opponents and loose the ball quickly.

Swede try this tactic I have used with great success. Currently Leeds top of the league P14 W10 D4 L0 F40 A12.

Just send me feedback on how you do with it.

http://www.filepanda.com/file/fahwu5infpwr/

[swede]

Swede try this tactic I have used with great success. Currently Leeds top of the league P14 W10 D4 L0 F40 A12.

Just send me feedback on how you do with it.

http://www.filepanda.com/file/fahwu5infpwr/

I'll give the current tactics a while longer. Just beat Fulham 1-0 at home to recorded our first league victory. Didn't play pretty or cammanded the game, but we won and kept a clean sheet.

[Glocks]

Guys - I think Hammer1000 had it spot on. I had gone one step further and unticked all individual player instructions as a last desperate measure. All of a sudden from being unable to win for love nor money, results - and performances in particular - really started to improve! I'll probably experiment with a few tweaks here and there to player instructions, but less is definitely more...

[swede]

Well, that's it. I can't be bothered much longer. Got crushed 5-1 by Tottenham away using the defensive tactics and lost to Sunderland 2-0 at home after that. I really don't have what it takes for this game. I'm a truly woeful virtual manager. We'll see when I'll get back to it, because I guess I will sooner or later. I'm just not having much fun, and I struggle to understand what I'm doing and what I should be doing. I'm going to leave it for a bit and hope to find inspiration in future to pick it up again.

[dunner]

One thing i found was picking players with a higher morale impacted my teams performances. Just a thought

[swede]

Well I couldn't stay away . This time I threw all caution out the window, said "screw the details" and simply used a semi-global setting on the default 4-4-2 and made it a little more conservative by reducing mentality. I set a few detailed individual instructions for the MCd and FC's and set the wingers to FR Often in the Standard set. Nothing fancy. I offloaded Barry to Spurs for 15 mill, which made Ashley Young unhappy so I sold him to Man City for 14 mil. Brought in Vagner Love, Artur Boka (LB), I wanted Mouthino but Man C got him, so I bought Riquelme instead. Bought Andres D'Allessandro to replace Young. I didn't do this heavy buying stuff in my previous saves out fear of further upsetting the squad balance and gelling process. My new signings have been very good so far. Especially D'Alessandro who is a bit of a sensitive person, so I'll have to watch his morale closely.

Up until the season started we hadn't conceeded a single goal in the two friendlies and two Inter Toto Cup games played. Going forward we scored eight. First PL game was against WBA home and we won 1-0 after Riquelme scored from the spot. Played well and should have won with a greater margin. Second game was a difficult one against Boro away. Played decently and won 3-1 after goals from Riquelme, Love and Routledge. Morale is very high (couldn't be better according to ass man), and we are winning and playing well despite my ass man's assessment that the squad haven't developed a good level of understanding yet. I hope it continues, but this is the best start I've made in any of my saves.

[benno41]

swede, on your training are you giving all the players the same fitness training

[swede]

swede, on your training are you giving all the players the same fitness training

Yes, I haven't dared touch the training yet out of fear for messing up.

[benno41]

I had the same problems as you when i first started, p20 w0 d2 l18, i was called the new ramos. So i started again (before i was sacked) but this time i did pre-season training just strengh and aerobic 2 clicks away from intensive and nothing else. Then a week before the kick off i gave the players position training but all of them light fitness 2 clicks to the left of normal on both strengh and aerobic. The team are looking solid and getting better every game they play with the same tactics from the first attempt now its p14 w9 d3 l2 f 24 a10 now i am called the new redknapp. I just think the training has alot more to do in this version then it did last time, by the way i am manager of Rushden in the blue squ league. I would like to know your thoughts on this.

[Fredric Drum]

I feel that the tactics is only a small part of the puzzle. You can have the best tactics in the world - it gets you nowhere if the other factors aren't there (in no particular order):

Gelness factor

Squad morale/player morale

Player quality

Team talk

Also...

Players being able to communicate (speak the language)

Players fitting in with squad personality

Endless fine-tuning of tactical subtleties appears to have only limited effect.

[swede]

I feel that the tactics is only a small part of the puzzle. You can have the best tactics in the world - it gets you nowhere if the other factors aren't there (in no particular order):

Gelness factor

Squad morale/player morale

Player quality

Team talk

Also...

Players being able to communicate (speak the language)

Players fitting in with squad personality

Endless fine-tuning of tactical subtleties appears to have only limited effect.

Indeed, that seems to be the key. Recorder my 3rd straight victory with a sound beating of Hull at home. A solid display from my lads and we looked comfortable throughout. Hope for more to come.

[ratpack2000]

I am also playing as Villa, with a 4 3 1 2 formation and despite only having one man in the middle of the park, Im more than holding my own results-wise (7th in the league, usually despatch the average and bad teams and lose/draw with the big boys) and this is despite the fact that I have replaced 80% of the team

One thing that I did find early on is that a high defensive line really helps when you have good defenders. Cuellar and Davies really fit the bill and Im blessed by having Martin Caceres as well for rotaion.

My defensive line is always above normal and when pushed up to 3 or 4 notches from the top, I found that the opposition strikers actually make LESS of the annoying run through 2 defenders and shoot type goals. Im guessing its because I am forcing them to play further up the pitch and as a direct consequence it reduces the amount of room the midfield has to pick the through balls and making it easier for my MCd to do his job of destroying their play

I have fairly low closing down to make sure that the team retains its defensive shape and it seems to reducing the beat the offside trap scenarios as well

Attacking-wise, its not as good as I want it to be but theres a couple of things Ill be looking at tonight to try and resolve this

Really looking forward to season 2 when my players have gelled and all speak english, could be very interesting

Im not sure that a high defensive line is as much of an impediment as it was in previous versions and very much helps limit the amount of ground that your defensive unit has to cover. Might be something to look at

[Aleena]

I feel that the tactics is only a small part of the puzzle. You can have the best tactics in the world - it gets you nowhere if the other factors aren't there (in no particular order):

Gelness factor

Squad morale/player morale

Player quality

Team talk

Also...

Players being able to communicate (speak the language)

Players fitting in with squad personality

Endless fine-tuning of tactical subtleties appears to have only limited effect.

Couldnt Agree more.