Frustrated beyond belief

[swede]

I just can't figure it out. I've read TT&F, I've read rashidi1's excellent posts, but I just can't find a working tactic. I consistently loose possession against equal or slightly lesser opponents (playing as Villa). My players seem slow and sluggish and often gets muscled off the ball or tackled off the pitch while trying to pick a pass. When the opponent has the ball, my lads are slow to close down and give them much time on the ball and find ways around my defenders. I've tried various own tactics as well as the TT&F ones, but I just cant't work it out. I usually find a few formations that work (in previous iterations of the series, but now nothing seems to work. My opponents seem to get a free run outside our area and consequently I loose a lot unless I'm facing a really poor side.

[wwfan]

I just can't figure it out. I've read TT&F, I've read rashidi1's excellent posts, but I just can't find a working tactic. I consistently loose possession against equal or slightly lesser opponents (playing as Villa). My players seem slow and sluggish and often gets muscled off the ball or tackled off the pitch while trying to pick a pass. When the opponent has the ball, my lads are slow to close down and give them much time on the ball and find ways around my defenders. I've tried various own tactics as well as the TT&F ones, but I just cant't work it out. I usually find a few formations that work (in previous iterations of the series, but now nothing seems to work. My opponents seem to get a free run outside our area and consequently I loose a lot unless I'm facing a really poor side.

What is your managerial reputation and your squad gelling? If both are poor, you cannot afford to play aggressively at first. Be conservative, play with standard and defensive systems, and slowly work your way into the game.

[swede]

Two more observations; my midfielders seem to take forever to recieve the ball, turn around and either start running or pick a pass. That means the opposition can overload the penalty area, and if we manage to get in there there is no space to threaten at all.

[Tuddur]

Yeah, they've gone down a road for years overcomplicating tactics and FM09 seems to have taken that even further. I've found with the previous releases that you need to throw out all logical thinking and try and fail until you figure out a tactic that actually give results and this will apply also this time around.

[swede]

What is your managerial reputation and your squad gelling? If both are poor, you cannot afford to play aggressively at first. Be conservative, play with standard and defensive systems, and slowly work your way into the game.

I've set myself as an International Footballer in order to start the game in the PL. We seem consistently sluggish and fail to transport the ball to the opposition half fast enough to get clear cut chances. I'm trying to up the tempo, but it still seems slow and the opposition often succeeds in closing down very quickly and kick my boys off the ball. There really is no space at all in the oposition penalty area, and we generally loose possession to last ditch tackles or simply by poking it around the area until we loose it.

[swede]

This problem is most pronounced when facing other PL teams. It looks like my players are really frustrated on the pitch. Crosses get blocked, they can't find space to run or pass and dilly dally on the ball until they get taken out. Squad morale ranges from good to superb at the moment, so I'm assuming it is the tactics. I have restarted the game and will give another tactic a go. It is based on one of rashidi1's 4-4-2 tactics with a more direct and quick approach. Posession stats don't really bother me as long as I create and convert more chances than the opposition.

[swede]

It started off well enough. We beat Borac in the Euro Vase 5-0 at home. A win was fully expected of course, but we managed to pull their defence apart with our width and my athletic strikers (Carew and Harewood) dominated them in the penalty area. However, I fully expect this tactic to fail once we face pacier, stronger PL teams and I'm not quite sure how to adapt. I suspect we will once again be dominated and let the pposition dictate play with strong tackles, quick closing down and long, fast balls over the top or aimed towards our flanks. How do I best counter this? I've tried lowering the D-line and narrowing the team a bit, but I suspect this won't be enough.

[swede]

Well, I was pretty much spot on with my prediction. Although we did well agaisnt Man U at home we lost 2-1 after two awful marking mistakes on two set-pieces close to our penalty area. Then we went on to loose 2-0 away to Boro after a very poor display where we failed to connect with passes and put them under any sort of pressure. The first goal was a world class solo act from Alves who simply ran down the left flank, cut into our area and ran around my defenders, leaving my keeper sprawling at the wrong post before slotting home. The second goal saw Gabri left completely alone in our box to fire home the decider. I really, truly suck balls at this game. For the first time in FM/CM history I just can't interpret what I see and translate into a viable tactic.

[Skyjacker]

I am also on a Man Utd and as former Sunday league player seem to struggles a lot. Normally I lose as we simply can not defend counter attacks or cross and if I do get one counter my strikers usually drag it wide. Also morale of players seems to be down at least attackers are all on poor and injuries do not help the cause either. But I hope by November-December things will improve.

[swede]

Easy passes bouncing off the heels of my players, going straight to the opposition? Seriously, my lads are clueless, which isn't surprising considering how I feel about it. When on the attack mystrikers gets swamped by several opponents and loose the ball quickly.

[Mike J]

I have to echo the thoughts of Tuddur here. The game seems to be getting less and less accessable with every release. This is particularly true when the default tactics are as useless as they are in 09. By the time you've made suitable adjustments you might as well have started from scratch. The level of info and help in the manual is shocking and I still don't feel the in-game feedback is good enough to help either.

This leads to a trial and error approach, which leads to frustration. As good as the TT&F document is, surely it's a pretty poor reflection on the game if you need a 50 page document to explain how it should work.

At the moment, after a good start, my Boro side can't score, can't keep possession and, to top it all off, I've given away 5 penalties in my last four games, three of them ridiculous off-the-ball incidents.

I'm beginning to think implementing the 3D engine may have been a bad idea. I don't think it's quite ready yet because as the game moves towards trying to be more realistic and representative of real football we expect things to work as they do in real life. The match engine doesn't seem capable of representing some things which leads to players becoming frustrated when their team doesn't do what they should. For example, I have experienced a number of occassions when my defenders stand around like idiots while the ball is free in front of them. I don't think it's a problem with the underlying match engine, but I think the 3D engine fails to represent what's actually happening which leaves players annoyed.

So now I'm left feeling clueless and powerless because there seems to be no way to tell what's going wrong in my 4-4-1-1 formation, which is a tweaked version of the one in the TT&F. It doesn't matter what approach I take (Standard, Defensive, Attacking, Control) they all seem to create little and concede possession. When it works it does what it should but all too often it fails to work.

It's also a little annoying that I worked hard to develop a formation in FM08 that worked but now it's useless.

[swede]

Mike,

I agree fully. The frustration right now is really getting to me. I struggle to enjoy what I do in the game when at times it only feels like I'm guessing what a particular slider move or tick box might mean in terms of on-pitch performance. As you say, the problem isn't as much with the ME as with how information is transmitted to the player (the one in front of the computer) from the underlying mechanics via the graphical representation. I see a lot of players making slow, cumbersome runs when chasing a ball and ending up loosing the race against opponents that have lower stats for pace and acceleration. I see other players with good passing skills hitting nice balls at players making a run, but the match engine shows the ball hitting the back of the receivers heels, bouncing loose for an opponent to pick up, launch a long ball over the top which leads to an opportunity for the other side.

When I see that I try to up the tempo a bit and give instructions to the MCa to distribute the ball using Mixed instructions to see if that makes him quicker. He still ends up getting balls from the defenders with his back to the opponents goal, and he is still extremely slow to turn around and start looking for a pass. I also try to see if I can win more ball chases by increasing closing down a notch or to to make my players a bit more aggressive, but it doesn't seem to have much effect on the outcome. I reduce the D-line a bit to close up the space behind my defenders, but it only seems to make the running duels shorter, we still end up long balls that threaten every time.

There also seems to be lots of gaps for the opponents to play measured through balls between my defenders for their attackers to run onto. When the do they catch my defenders with their backs to the goal without any chance of catching them as they run onto the ball.

In the attack we struggle to get crosses in. Pacy players like Young struggle to skin his defender and get crosses delivered into the box. The balls are frequently caught on the defenders, at best resulting in a corner. Which brings me to the complete lack of aerial prowess my Villa side possesses. We consistently struggle to defend corners if the opponents have half-decent headers and opponents gets lots of headers in despite us having players like Carew, Laursen, Cuellar and Davies defending (or attacking for that matter). There doesn't seem to be a clear way for me to create basic pressing and support structures for defenders, leading to strange gaps appearing seemingly at random.

When we manage to deliver a decent ball into the penalty area it is often very crowded and we lack real depth. Lots of players in the box with few options of pulling the ball back outside the area for a quick regroup or a long shot. It would be very beneficial if the midfielders could come charging in from outside of the box ready to pick up back passes from the strikers and wingers. The problem is that these passes rarely comes as the ball carrier in the box almost always is covered by a defender and dallies until he looses the ball or takes a bad shot at goal.

I'm suffering from complete information overload trying to digest what I am seeing. As you can tell, I'm really struggling here.

[mad_son_of_a_bean]

Have to say I echo the thoughts of those here. I read and re-read TT&F chose a suitbale tactic for my level of players (oxford united), and introduced it before the first game of pre-season to allow my players to get used to it. They had a good pre-season, and then it's all gone wrong! Can't win for toffee... can't hold posession, can't score. WE NEED HELP SI!

[DanFerret]

Im also becoming quite frustrated, my lil stick man players move about and make chaneces but I hardly score. Adebayor and Bendtner have average ratings of about 5.

[swede]

I feel cut off from my players. There is nothing majorly wrong with the match engine or the immersive parts such as player relationships and press module. The UI and the way you interact with the game and your players is, quite frankly, very, very off-putting for me. And it seems to be getting worse. I want to be able to tell Reo-Coker to watch Moutinho's back and I want my defenders to press and support when the opposition players come in, but I have no idea how to convey this information to them. Most of the time I can see what is happening on the pitch and I might even have a tentative solution to the perceived problem. Instead of bunching up on the ball carrier I want my lads to look around and be more aware of the opponents around them. I also understand that it is my tactics that is causing them to be disorganized, but it frustrates me that I don't believe they have to be since I might know what to do to rectify it. I am essentially trying to communicating with them by proxy. It is sort of like what Ramos had to face when he was at Spurs. He didn't know the language and everybody just ran in whichever direction he was pointing at the moment. Tongue in cheek of course, but you get the idea.

The UI and the communication tools that SI has provided us with isn't impossible to use, far from it. They are, however, very cumbersome and unintuitive, demanding that we focus on its various components rather than functioning as a helpful filter guiding us, the true players, in our quest to get our players working in the right direction. I am very lost in the hermeneutical spiral right now, and as per usual when that happens, I haven't got a ****ing clue as to what I'm doing.

[Aoede]

try one of wwfan's tactics, the standard 4-4-2 one worked great for me (though I'm playing as Juve)

[3889011]

I fully agree with these things said here. It seems that the opposition players are tackling so much better than we do and closing down so much faster.

Paul C (the ME guy) we need HELP.

[Hammer1000]

I am bored out of my brains to be honest.

I'm still playing the Demo, as i wont buy the game until i come across a way to play that works for me and if i dont? i'll simply not bother.

I tried the whole package of "Generic" tactics, both tweaked and untweaked and could find absolutely no consistency over a test period of 10 games each.

I started 4 games with the EPL big four and often struggled to have a shot, let alone score a goal. Some of the games were finishing with no more than 2 or 3 shots attempted by BOTH teams and that was with Man Utd against the likes of Stoke, Hull etc???

I'm still watching AI players ghosting through my own with the ball at their feet, instead of coming in from the side and having to come back around to control the ball, they just run straight through with it? whereas once the AI player has the ball at his feet with my man behind him, he has gone and no amount of pace or skill will get that ball back from him?

Then in a situation when my player DOES win the ball of the opposing player, he then opts to stand still until the player recovers and takes it straight back from him?

I think i'll just wait and see if anyone comes up with a consistent tactic or tactic set? at least with 08 i could just use a default tactic and get some consistency, with 09 i cannot even do that?

[3889011]

I have just one sentence for SI. Help us to understand how we can make players play as we want to.

I want to see my tactics as I made them.

In example I want to tell my mc to close down only one player not all of them etc.

[3889011]

We need help now: Please help us si

[mark robathan]

echo it all!!!! i wont play again till someone posts some tactics that work i nearly broke my laptops twive yeterday in frustration just nothing works!!! we gotta remember its a game that should be accesible and enjoyable by majority SI!!! and if u have a good 11 players most straight forward tactics should at least work to a degree!!!!

[swede]

Ok, here is a thought. Is the sluggishness of my players in any way related to time wasting? Higher time wasting = slower players? I'm sort of desperate here, but I think I saw a slight increase in fluidity in my passing game when I moved the slider from low mixed to rarely. Probably just my imagination or the opposition that was poor.

[swede]

God, I'm utterly perplexed by this! Currently I'm being torn apart by Birmingham. They slot excuisite passes between Cuellar and Laursen or launches amazing long balls from their keeper while my defender looks on. Dropped D-line, didn't help. They're ahead 3-1 and winning in every department. Don't knoe what to do at all.

[swede]

4-1, they're scoring for fun.

[swede]

Hmmm... I dropped time wasting from "high rarely" to 0 and we came within a pubic hair of equalising. Fast fluid play, much in contrast to the slow sluggish display up until I changed the setting.

[wwfan]

4-1, they're scoring for fun.

If I were you, I'd tighten up. Reduce closing down and width by several notches to ensure players hold positions much more. Carew and Harewood are not going to make any use of the free role instructions, so remove them and make one a target man. Add free roles to the wingers instead. As you have decreased width, you need to shore up the flanks by using Close Down Always OI against opposing wingers. That should help tactically.

Then you need to work out how to take pressure off the squad. Villa have brought in a lot of new players in the close season. Adding a new manager is going to seriously effect gelling and how they can play. Be much more conservative for the opening 15 competitive games and try to grind out 1-0s. Use the media/player interaction modules as much as possible to install discipline and respect in the squad. Results will then start to turn and you can become more expansive.

[swede]

If I were you, I'd tighten up. Reduce closing down and width by several notches to ensure players hold positions much more. Carew and Harewood are not going to make any use of the free role instructions, so remove them and make one a target man. Add free roles to the wingers instead. As you have decreased width, you need to shore up the flanks by using Close Down Always OI against opposing wingers. That should help tactically.

Then you need to work out how to take pressure off the squad. Villa have brought in a lot of new players in the close season. Adding a new manager is going to seriously affect gelling and how they can play. Be much more conservative for the opening 15 competitive games and try to grind out 1-0s. Use the media/player interaction modules as much as possible to install discipline and respect in the squad. Results will then start to turn and you can become more expansive.

Thanks wwfan, I'll try and reduce the settings further. I rarely play Carew and Harewood together, they played because of injury. Dafeo or Gabby usually plays "off the shoulder" with Carew coming deep to collect and link up with headers and flick-ons. My defence is all aover the place! Robertson usually say my lads are well up for it tackling hard and accurately. I can't say I agree, but what do I know. I'll keep plugging with this and see how it goes.

[rbnrbn]

I have to echo the thoughts of Tuddur here. The game seems to be getting less and less accessable with every release. This is particularly true when the default tactics are as useless as they are in 09. By the time you've made suitable adjustments you might as well have started from scratch. The level of info and help in the manual is shocking and I still don't feel the in-game feedback is good enough to help either.

This leads to a trial and error approach, which leads to frustration. As good as the TT&F document is, surely it's a pretty poor reflection on the game if you need a 50 page document to explain how it should work.

At the moment, after a good start, my Boro side can't score, can't keep possession and, to top it all off, I've given away 5 penalties in my last four games, three of them ridiculous off-the-ball incidents.

I'm beginning to think implementing the 3D engine may have been a bad idea. I don't think it's quite ready yet because as the game moves towards trying to be more realistic and representative of real football we expect things to work as they do in real life. The match engine doesn't seem capable of representing some things which leads to players becoming frustrated when their team doesn't do what they should. For example, I have experienced a number of occassions when my defenders stand around like idiots while the ball is free in front of them. I don't think it's a problem with the underlying match engine, but I think the 3D engine fails to represent what's actually happening which leaves players annoyed.

So now I'm left feeling clueless and powerless because there seems to be no way to tell what's going wrong in my 4-4-1-1 formation, which is a tweaked version of the one in the TT&F. It doesn't matter what approach I take (Standard, Defensive, Attacking, Control) they all seem to create little and concede possession. When it works it does what it should but all too often it fails to work.

It's also a little annoying that I worked hard to develop a formation in FM08 that worked but now it's useless.

I totally agree. I hope someone from SI reads this.

[cini65]

its got to the stage now with me that spending the time to create a tactic is turning into such a pointless exercise that its no longer enjoyable as i have no idea why some of my tactics are good and some are bad... i'd rather just wait, then steal someones tried and tested tactic (which will invariably have been created out of pot luck)

[swede]

I really struggle to find the fun part in this to be honest. I really appreciate what SI have done. They have made a remarkable game. I love the series and always have. Something is different now though. It is probably because I no longer have the patience to tinker as much as needed and really get into all the settings and what they mean. We really play dire football at the moment. Utter tripe. I really don't like to play games just to feel completely useless and unworthy of my position.

[cini65]

I really struggle to find the fun part in this to be honest. I really appreciate what SI have done. They have made a remarkable game. I love the series and always have. Something is different now though. It is probably because I no longer have the patience to tinker as much as needed and really get into all the settings and what they mean. We really play dire football at the moment. Utter tripe. I really don't like to play games just to feel completely useless and unworthy of my position.

far too true... the enjoyment i get from this game is winning a load of games, scoring a load of goals and wheeling and dealing getting top players to sign for me. many may not agree with that, but hey ho. just lost to Bolton 3-1 away with arsenal.

i had a stronger team in every department in better form etc. with a tactic i had stolen elsewhere but looks to work quite well... but they dominated posession, had loads of shots on goal and scored 3 amazing goals... whilst my team only mustered 2 shots.

next game at home v WBA, 48% posession (?!), 3 shots and i win 2-0. its just a bit dull. every tactic tried so far is just so inconsistent (and not realistically inconsistent)

[DGN]

Agreed 100%

Tactics and AI are baffling

Too Hard = No Fun

I'm off to try Fifa Manager 09 and CM 09

[swede]

To be honest, it isn't really that it's hard. It's got more to do with the fact that it is too much work for me to convey my instructions to my players. Football isn't easy, and winning consistently is very difficult indeed in real life. I just don't like the the way I am forced to communicate with my team. I'll stick with it for a while yet. I know the rewards are immense. The only question is for how long.

[HoroHoro]

What manager reputation did you guys have? I do notice that if you are a low reputation manager and you take over a big reputation team/players, your players arent going to follow your instructions and have very little motivation to play. To see if this is the case, check your player if they have comments like "feels that the manager's lack of experience will hinder the club's progress".

As for sluggish slow play, I notice that "Tempo" and "Time wasting" is rather tweaked. If you are using normal for both, you will likely see slow play when your players are not highly motivated/confident. You have to put high tempo and rarely time wasting to see increase in play speed. However, you have to monitor you team as there is no magic setting which will work for every game. When they are highly confident/motivated, slow them down so they are not hurring the play too much.

[TanO]

Agreed, playing as Chivas in the Portuguese Second Division A, I am going into games as a 33-1 ON favourite and still coming away with losses or Nil-Nil if I'm lucky, however in friendlies we are winning by 5 or 6. Maybe the odds are way off in the league, or my players can't take the pressure, or I'm the worst manager in the world.

Or maybe it's just broken.

[Mike J]

If I were you, I'd tighten up. Reduce closing down and width by several notches to ensure players hold positions much more. Carew and Harewood are not going to make any use of the free role instructions, so remove them and make one a target man. Add free roles to the wingers instead. As you have decreased width, you need to shore up the flanks by using Close Down Always OI against opposing wingers. That should help tactically.

Then you need to work out how to take pressure off the squad. Villa have brought in a lot of new players in the close season. Adding a new manager is going to seriously effect gelling and how they can play. Be much more conservative for the opening 15 competitive games and try to grind out 1-0s. Use the media/player interaction modules as much as possible to install discipline and respect in the squad. Results will then start to turn and you can become more expansive.

All very good advice, But I think the real problem most people on this thread are having is that there's no way to know this stuff except trial and error. The feedback mechanism sucks, which contributes to a feeling of helplessness on the part of the player. As I said before, the way the 3D match engine fails to properly illustrate many issues and produces some very weird looking incidents doesn't help either.

For example, the great work that you guys have done on the TT&F took a few months worth of testing by about half a dozen people, I believe. Am I alone in thinking that amount of effort is a little bit too much to ask from the casual gamer, or even the committed gamer for that matter?

For example, my Boro team has just lost 1-0 to Hull away from home. I dominated possession, only had a few decent chances, but also limited them to one chance. It's not the fact I lost that bothers me - that happens in football and I've won a few games that I probably shouldn't have this season too. What annoys me is that I have no idea why I lost or how to reduce my chances of the same thing happening again.

I don't mind spending the time on my tactics but with no good place to start I also don't want to waste my time either. At this stage my frustration is so great that I don't even know if I'll finish the season and that's the first time I've ever felt that way since I started playing these games way back with CM01/02.

[swede]

What manager reputation did you guys have? I do notice that if you are a low reputation manager and you take over a big reputation team/players, your players arent going to follow your instructions and have very little motivation to play. To see if this is the case, check your player if they have comments like "feels that the manager's lack of experience will hinder the club's progress".

As for sluggish slow play, I notice that "Tempo" and "Time wasting" is rather tweaked. If you are using normal for both, you will likely see slow play when your players are not highly motivated/confident. You have to put high tempo and rarely time wasting to see increase in play speed. However, you have to monitor you team as there is no magic setting which will work for every game. When they are highly confident/motivated, slow them down so they are not hurring the play too much.

I've seen the difference in speed that lowering time wasting can bring. I'm going to restart my game tomorrow and see what I can do in terms of tactics. Slightly higher tempo, lower TW and a little less width and closing down might even get me some consistency and solidity. I'll screw up some setting somewhere though, I'm sure. Time for bed and nightmares about a world class looking Lech ripping my defence apart in the UEFA Cup.

[swede]

All very good advice, But I think the real problem most people on this thread are having is that there's no way to know this stuff except trial and error. The feedback mechanism sucks, which contributes to a feeling of helplessness on the part of the player. As I said before, the way the 3D match engine fails to properly illustrate many issues and produces some very weird looking incidents doesn't help either.

For example, the great work that you guys have done on the TT&F took a few months worth of testing by about half a dozen people, I believe. Am I alone in thinking that amount of effort is a little bit too much to ask from the casual gamer, or even the committed gamer for that matter?

For example, my Boro team has just lost 1-0 to Hull away from home. I dominated possession, only had a few decent chances, but also limited them to one chance. It's not the fact I lost that bothers me - that happens in football and I've won a few games that I probably shouldn't have this season too. What annoys me is that I have no idea why I lost or how to reduce my chances of the same thing happening again.

I don't mind spending the time on my tactics but with no good place to start I also don't want to waste my time either. At this stage my frustration is so great that I don't even know if I'll finish the season and that's the first time I've ever felt that way since I started playing these games way back with CM01/02.

Seconded. I really love what the TT&F gang have done and appreciate all the effort they have put in. It has enhanced my experiences with the game as well as provided me with lots of good and interesting reading. I just can't put all the pieces together and consistently apply what I know in the game. It is, as you say, a guessing game for me until I've mastered the intricacies of the communication filter. I started down on the slippery slope last yera in FM08, but managed to do decently thanks to TT&F and some of my own efforts. This year it is much, much more difficult for me and as a consequence much less fun.

[jimi m]

I play 4-4-2 attacking and cannot for the life of me get my forwards to play well.Im playin as Man City,so Jo Robinho and I bought Huntelaar keep gettin a rating of 6 average its a joke.

I have a holding midfielder and the attacking midfielder always plays crap as well,I tweaked and changed everything.Come on like I have Kuzmanovic and elano great players who cant play well with my tactics..JOKE

[TanO]

Just got my first two wins on the bounce in the league, against the bottom two teams. Either we just found our level, or the secret is me not talking to the players at all in any of the team talks.

[Goose54]

I totally agree. I hope someone from SI reads this.

I have to echo the thoughts of Tuddur here. The game seems to be getting less and less accessable with every release. This is particularly true when the default tactics are as useless as they are in 09. By the time you've made suitable adjustments you might as well have started from scratch. The level of info and help in the manual is shocking and I still don't feel the in-game feedback is good enough to help either.

This leads to a trial and error approach, which leads to frustration. As good as the TT&F document is, surely it's a pretty poor reflection on the game if you need a 50 page document to explain how it should work.

At the moment, after a good start, my Boro side can't score, can't keep possession and, to top it all off, I've given away 5 penalties in my last four games, three of them ridiculous off-the-ball incidents.

I'm beginning to think implementing the 3D engine may have been a bad idea. I don't think it's quite ready yet because as the game moves towards trying to be more realistic and representative of real football we expect things to work as they do in real life. The match engine doesn't seem capable of representing some things which leads to players becoming frustrated when their team doesn't do what they should. For example, I have experienced a number of occassions when my defenders stand around like idiots while the ball is free in front of them. I don't think it's a problem with the underlying match engine, but I think the 3D engine fails to represent what's actually happening which leaves players annoyed.

So now I'm left feeling clueless and powerless because there seems to be no way to tell what's going wrong in my 4-4-1-1 formation, which is a tweaked version of the one in the TT&F. It doesn't matter what approach I take (Standard, Defensive, Attacking, Control) they all seem to create little and concede possession. When it works it does what it should but all too often it fails to work.

It's also a little annoying that I worked hard to develop a formation in FM08 that worked but now it's useless.

Totally agree here!

[Serpico]

I don't think it's got any harder than FM08, but then I'm not sure that's possible. I agree with most of what's posted above.

[Chesty_Bond]

Im also becoming quite frustrated, my lil stick man players move about and make chaneces but I hardly score. Adebayor and Bendtner have average ratings of about 5.

Not in my game, Adebayor(currently injured) 17 total apps, 11 goals & 7.25 rating, Bendtner (last 5 games) 4 goals & 7.16 rating. I do agree that I think is game is the hardest by far and I THINK SI are trying to stop the super tactic. I have found that it is IMPORTANT to have at least a home and away tactic (which wasn't the case in previous games, 1 tactic beats all). Also you should only use 2D. IMHO, the 3D sux badly but the game engine is good. I am 3rd in the league, 1 pt behind Man Utd & Liverpool and have played 13 games - 9W-3D-1L with 19 goals for and 5 against, seems pretty real to me. Also 2 of the draws were 0-0, gotta love that! Never saw that in 08!!!!!

This is a new game and the tactics work differenlty than before. Other versions were way too easy. This edition you have to think about every game and every opponent. I got a bit over confident in a Carling Cup away game to Cardiff, tried my attacking home tactic and only just won in a penalty shoot out. In fact, if their strikers could shoot we would have lost, and lost convincingly. I really think SI is on the money with 09, except for the 3D, sorry guys!

[Aytumious]

I've found that setting creative freedom down to like 5 or less really helped during the first 15 or so matches.

[swede]

I've found that setting creative freedom down to like 5 or less really helped during the first 15 or so matches.

I'll give that a try as well when I get my new game up and running.

@Chesty_Bond,

My main problem isn't that the game is hard. Football at the highest level is, so no questions there. The problem is that I don't really know what solutions I am applying when I push and pull the sliders around. Translated to the real world it would be like talking random gibberish to your players and hope that you managed to get something right. I feel like one of the famed primates in the infinite monkey theorem, trying to complete Shakespeare's works. It isn't very much fun and I feel disconnected from my players. That is my main problem. It is like being a Premier League manager that gets his tongue ripped out when he takes over a club.

[Chesty_Bond]

I'll give that a try as well when I get my new game up and running.

@Chesty_Bond,

My main problem isn't that the game is hard. Football at the highest level is, so no questions there. The problem is that I don't really know what solutions I am applying when I push and pull the sliders around. Translated to the real world it would be like talking random gibberish to your players and hope that you managed to get something right. I feel like one of the famed primates in the infinite monkey theorem, trying to complete Shakespeare's works. It isn't very much fun and I feel disconnected from my players. That is my main problem. It is like being a Premier League manager that gets his tongue ripped out when he takes over a club.

I think you sort of need to forget the way you set up tactics in 08. It is somewhat of a new game. Like I said before I think SI are trying to stop the super tactic, hence the restrictions with the player arrows. I am religiously using rule of 1 and do not have more than 4/5 notches of mentality between the deepest back and the highest forward. You can then use the team’s mentality to dictate your style of play. Also it appears that in 09, player ability is more important than even. Players need to be capable of executing your tactics, eg you definitely can't play short/quick passing with unskillful players. Set up your tactics to your players strengths. You can definitely set up a tactic that works, just persevere with it.

[swede]

What about tempo? I'm trying to keep my teams shape and I'll focus on getting the lads through the gelling period by following wwfan's tips on playing a little more conservative. How does tempo fit in? I want to get away from the extremely slow and sluggish play I experienced in my previous save, but I don't want us to throw away balls in a hurry.

[TanO]

I got a few more wins last night before I went to sleep. What I'm learning :

1. Because I have no reputation my team talks if anything have a negative effect

2. Give it time. Swapping tactics all the time because nothing works doesn't help. The squad need at least a dozen games to gel.

3. Small changes = big effects. One slider notch can make a big difference in how the team pass and move.

I'm starting to really like it, each match is a much more micro-managed and detailed affair and actually makes it worth watching the full match highlights and working out what is going on. Which ultimately makes it hugely satisfying when one click makes the difference that leads to a goal.

[swede]

So, this is the tactic I’m trying out now. I have adhered to the RoO mentality settings as seen in TT&F as a starting position:

DL/DR (Shorey/L. Young)

Mentality: 9

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: Mixed

Closing down: 8

Tackling: Normal

Forward runs: Mixed

Run with ball: Mixed

Long Shots: Rarely

Through balls: Rarely

Cross ball: Often

Cross from: Mixed

Cross aim: Mixed

DC (Laursen/Cuellar)

Mentality: 8

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: Direct

Closing down: 6

Tackling: Normal (Team)

Forward runs: Rarely

Run with ball: Rarely

Long Shots: Rarely

Through balls: Rarely

Cross ball: Rarely

Cross from: Mixed

Cross aim: Mixed

MR/ML (Milner/ A. Young)

Mentality: 11

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: Mixed

Closing down: 10

Tackling: Normal (Team)

Forward runs: Mixed

Run with ball: Mixed

Long Shots: Mixed

Through balls: Often

Cross ball: Often

Cross from: Mixed

Cross aim: Mixed

MCd (Reo-Coker)

Mentality: 10

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: Mixed

Closing down: 9

Tackling: Normal

Forward runs: Rarely

Run with ball: Rarely

Long Shots: Mixed

Through balls: Rarely

Cross ball: Rarely

Cross from: Mixed

Cross aim: Mixed

MCa (Barry)

Mentality: 11

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: Mixed (Team)

Closing down: 10

Tackling: Normal

Forward runs: Often

Run with ball: Mixed

Long Shots: Mixed

Through balls: Often

Cross ball: Rarely

Cross from: Mixed

Cross aim: Mixed

FCa (Defoe)

Mentality: 13

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: Mixed (Team)

Closing down:12

Tackling: Normal

Forward runs: Often

Run with ball: Often

Long Shots: Mixed

Through balls: Rarely

Cross ball: Mixed

Cross from: Mixed

Cross aim: Mixed

FCd (Carew)

Mentality: 9

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: Mixed (7)

Closing down: 12

Tackling: Normal

Forward runs: Mixed

Run with ball: Mixed

Long Shots: Mixed

Through balls: Often

Cross ball: Mixed

Cross from: Mixed

Cross aim: Mixed

Team Settings:

Mentality: 10

Creative freedom: 5

Passing style: 10

Tempo: 11

Closing down: 10

Time wasting: 1

Defensive line: 9

Focus passing: Mixed

Zonal Marking

First result was rotten. 1-0 win against Port Vale(!). We had lots of shots, but 9 out of 14 were off target. 60% possession and we failed when the ball ended up in their penalty area. We’ll see how it goes against Sivasspor in the UEFA Cup.

[swede]

The away game at Sivasspor turned out to be a boring 1-1 draw which was a massive disappointment. We played the bal around quite well and the commentator gave us credit for a few "Superb moves", but we failed to convert the few chances we had. 4 out of 7 shots off target, with 1 clear cut chance in the mix. Their goal was a real beauty. Cuellar dallied on the ball, lost it and their striker fired a 35 yard screamer into the top corner. One of the sexiest goals I've seen in FM09 this far. We''l get butchered once the PL starts since I have no idea how to tweak things now. :o