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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

Biggest downside for this year's FM from your pov ?  

66 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. What really annoy you this year while playing FM19 ?

    • Players moaning for new contracts too often
      23
    • Gegenpressing tactic too powerful
      12
    • Youngsters determination decreasing despite tutoring
      10
    • IA still stockpiling players at a specific position/low teambuilding
      11
    • Calendar bug ,only 1 day to recover between 2 officials games, especially a the end of the season (Obviously, i'm not talking about the Boxing day)
      6
    • International call-ups issues (players unavailable for Champions League final etc...)
      5


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Just now, johnhughthom said:

I'm pretty sure that's not what the in game advice on loading screens says Jack.

Myself I understood that loading tip to mean something along the lines of this.

1 minute ago, SD said:

That doesn't mean height is not an advantage, because players will not always be able to jump, such as when turning or during a physical duel, and in those instances a player's height is what dictates aerial reach.

 

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1 minute ago, johnhughthom said:

I'm pretty sure that's not what the in game advice on loading screens says Jack.

The tooltip for jumping reach says: "This attribute reflects the highest point that a player can reach with his head, often influenced by a player's height".

Think of jumping reach as the highest point you reach when jumping, not the distance your feet go off the ground.

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30 минут назад, Jack Joyce сказал:

This is a common misconception. Jumping already takes in to account the player's height, so 14 for a 6 ft or 5ft player would be the same maximum height reached when jumping.

Is there any correlation of speed and height? Step size factor? I mean if 170cm player and 190cm player have the same speed skills - they have the same speed?

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47 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

This is a common misconception. Jumping already takes in to account the player's height, so 14 for a 6 ft or 5ft player would be the same maximum height reached when jumping.

Apologies, I was told this for a long time so I assumed I was right and used it for buying CB's and DM's. 

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1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

Is there any correlation of speed and height? Step size factor? I mean if 170cm player and 190cm player have the same speed skills - they have the same speed?

Yes they would be the same speed

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Posted (edited)
On ‎02‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 09:12, themadsheep2001 said:

The bit about being outshot and winning is interesting because that's exactly what United did to Watford on the weekend. They were outshot by about 20 to 4 and won. 

But the same issues apply, if you view the game too narrowly you will end up removing factors you can influence, if not necessarily control. Which will make the game feel far more random than it is. We all play the same game: so why do others get far more from it than others? 

Speaking of which, I've recently watched a talk About Tim Cain addressing "randomness". He's an RPG game designer (original Fallout games, currently Obsidian Entertainment, etc.), which means the game's inherent "randomness" is far more transparent, as those games typically Display "to score, er hit chances", etc. Right on the screen (an Advantage, that FM Players naturally don't have -- ditto to real Managers). :D It's interesting of note that even internal, professional QA guys can be rubbed "wrongly" by it. It is also how note how the probability of Things Happening are underestimated. (26 minutes in onward)
 



Take for instance the (arguably to often) rigidly defensive AI. Even taking tactics completely out of the Picture (bad idea) -- the AI Opponent is going to have far fewer to minimal shots in each match where it Plays rigidly defensive Football (and doesn't Change early on). However, it will still have shots. Traditionally, a lot of them will be set piece based Affairs, as that's when the defensive AI tends to push Players Forward for once. It also can be screamers though, as it's less likely to string together Team moves due to so many Players staying behind the ball. On the Occasion, it can also be an individual error by the own Team -- or, a bug.

However, as soon as you still conceding shots over the Season -- you will concede a Goal eventually. I've just skimped through the Steam Reviews and it's apparent how oftenly the Phrase "one shot one Goal" by the AI is still brought up. Unless Players don't field defenses whatsoever, this typically doesn't happen that often. SO if you take a look at the save, it typically happens every other match. However: sample sizes. The same Thing Cain talks About. How many Matches does one Play in a session? How many in an hour, two? In a week? Month? Plus: How many will experience "similar" given that the game is played by hundreds of thousands to find and "discuss" the same Thing? 


This also applies to injuries, etc. everything. As a General rule of the thumb: As soon as there is a (mathematical) probabilty for something occuring, it will occur. However, given that not a single Player has yet ever reported a "Ronaldo last Season spell" (7 shots average for 5 months, inside the box as a Forward no less, for a return of but 4 Goals), ditto Dortmund slumping as lowly as 18th place come February 2015 despite being the "better Team almost every week, even from subjective watching) I think it's fair to say that the game is significantly less random than Football. But then, who knows.

Whoever experience this might just become too frustrated and has quit it. ;)

 

Edited by Svenc

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On 31/03/2019 at 02:22, rjferguson90 said:

Investigated further and checked all my league games only this season (20 played out of 34). My team has hit the woodwork 18 times in 20 league games. I'm playing in the Portuguese second division and can't statistical data for it, but this season in the English Premier League, Chelsea top the charts with hitting the woodwork 19 times in 30 games, and the league average is just shy of 11. I would be very interested to see what the longest consecutive game streaks of hitting the woodwork are too, but I don't think that data exists. Regardless, at the moment I'm on course to finish the league campaign with hitting the bar around 30 to 31 times in 34 games, and whilst I can't be bothered to go back and check previous seasons, I feel like I hit the bar most games no matter what team and league I play in, so this isn't just a fluke season.

Watching the Australian 'A' League on TV just as I read through your post. Sydney v Melbourne Victory and the commentators have just said that, in their 24th game of the season, Sydney have now hit the woodwork 14 times, more than any other side in the league. Just another real life example for you.
OK, move along, nothing to see here :)

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1 hour ago, Earnie is God! said:

Watching the Australian 'A' League on TV just as I read through your post. Sydney v Melbourne Victory and the commentators have just said that, in their 24th game of the season, Sydney have now hit the woodwork 14 times, more than any other side in the league. Just another real life example for you.
OK, move along, nothing to see here :)

Which is still nowhere near the ratio I'm getting in FM...

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We need a feature where we can praise a group of players for training. it is unnecessarily tedious to individually praise 15 players 

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Is it possible to change your savegame location? i think it was possible before but now i cant find it.

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  • Bug - If you are on the coach training schedules assignment page and click to advance game time, it hangs without progressing.
  • Gripe - As the national team manager, having to deal with question after question about crappy regen players switching nationality. One or two every now and then, fine, but 3 or 4 every single press conference? V annoying.
  • Gripe - PSG aggressiveness. I have been managing Arsenal for 10 years, in that time we have won everything, every single year. We are most reputable club in the world etc etc, yet PSG can still make a bid for a player and unsettle him despite the fact they have not won anything of note and are much less reputable. They keep making desultory bids and unsettling players.
  • Gripe - Why haven't press conference questions changed in years now? Same questions, constantly. If you aren't going to vary the questions then at least make it moddable so the community can add more in.
  • Annoyance - Players accept a fine for getting a straight red yet get annoyed at being fined for getting 2 yellows and being sent off? Why?
  • Observation - I never seem to get approached for other management jobs or national team job? If I had won everything in real-life, I would be getting head-hunted by every club on the continent.
  • Observation - Wage demands and agent demands seem much more raised this edition. Every single player seems to demand crazy money and then gets annoyed when told 'no'.

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52 minutes ago, sorrenmills said:

Gripe - PSG aggressiveness. I have been managing Arsenal for 10 years, in that time we have won everything, every single year. We are most reputable club in the world etc etc, yet PSG can still make a bid for a player and unsettle him despite the fact they have not won anything of note and are much less reputable. They keep making desultory bids and unsettling players.

I'd imagine that is how some major clubs work in real life when it comes to attracting big players. Don't forget that you can try this trick on other clubs.

53 minutes ago, sorrenmills said:

Gripe - As the national team manager, having to deal with question after question about crappy regen players switching nationality. One or two every now and then, fine, but 3 or 4 every single press conference? V annoying.

Yes, those messages do seem to be too prevalent in FM19.

54 minutes ago, sorrenmills said:

Gripe - Why haven't press conference questions changed in years now? Same questions, constantly. If you aren't going to vary the questions then at least make it moddable so the community can add more in.

Press conferences HAVE changed in FM19 (I find that there are more contextual questions). But if you're complaining that journalists ask the same old questions, I'd suggest you watch a few Premier League press conferences, because the journalists there really do ask the same old questions every time.

56 minutes ago, sorrenmills said:

Annoyance - Players accept a fine for getting a straight red yet get annoyed at being fined for getting 2 yellows and being sent off? Why?

Fining players for receiving two yellows in a match is generally seen as being harsh. I prefer to only warn players who get sent off this way, reserving fines only for straight red cards and off-the-pitch indiscipline.

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1 час назад, sorrenmills сказал:
  • Annoyance - Players accept a fine for getting a straight red yet get annoyed at being fined for getting 2 yellows and being sent off? Why?
  •  

Because 2YC its not a crime especially if this guy BWM or CB with PI 'hard tackles' etc. Also dont forget about context. If players had second YC for important foul in last game? Situation where no foul = goal?

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It would appear that this has turned into a bit of a rant so I've split it up into separate posts so I don't have people saying "My eyes! MY EYES!!"

I'm managing Cardiff in FM19 and, as previously mentioned, I only bought the game 2wks ago but have been playing FM for roughly 20yrs and you don't have to have played FM19 for weeks on end to see a number of glaring issues. It isn't all negative of course, there are a number of improvements and I especially like the tactical options but overall the negatives, for me and a number of others it seems, outweigh the positives. I read through just about all of this thread, only skipped a few pages here and there, before buying the game and I have to agree with a lot of the problems already mentioned, even those in the beginning before any of the patches, as some are still there.

We'll get to the dynamics shortly, but my main annoyances early on are to do with scouting, transfers and playing time.

First up, nonsensical interactions with players.

20190401095045_1.thumb.jpg.f605768a1fa4ad075b2289ec3bc651bb.jpg

After telling Ashley Richards he has no future here, he seemed to react positively to my request for him to find a new club.
However, after a couple of weeks or so of no offers and nothing seemingly happening, I decided to take the matter back into my own hands and offer him out again.
This was his reaction...
20190401095109_1.thumb.jpg.6c540a6cdb78ce26c27f849b44c85e82.jpg20190401095118_1.thumb.jpg.46c95cffebd6ca55a7e031483a3f264f.jpg20190401095127_1.thumb.jpg.a7c5eb9118737d4b048012c943e0b168.jpg

Really? You'd already accepted you weren't going to play for me and you were supposed to be trying to find yourself a new club.
Fearing that this will disrupt the squad, I was beginning to get annoyed.
Thankfully, we received a bid shortly afterwards and I was glad to see him leave.
But it shouldn't really happen like that.

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Playing Time and Social Groups

Just 6-7 games into the season, I have players coming to me, annoyed that they aren't starting more. 6-7 games! It's the first week of October!
It seems to me that their squad status is almost completely irrelevant. Etheridge is my backup GK but has played twice in the league already and once in the cup.

Playing time - do cup appearances still not count? Afaik they don't, just like they haven't for what seems like forever, but that doesn't really make sense does it?
You can have a player extremely upset about not being included in your Champions League squad, for example, but he would be completely fine with not playing a single minute in the competition, just so long as he was registered to play. Doesn't seem right.

As a backup player, how much is Etheridge expecting to play exactly? As it happens, he's decent and Smithies isn't playing well so I tell him I'll start him in a few games to show me what he can do.
Sol Bamba also complained after playing too few games. I can understand that a bit more as he's rotation not backup but still, the season is just 6 weeks old! Still, we've picked up an injury so I'm lucky we have space right now so tell him he'll start more games.
Both players seem happy and I'm not (yet) too bothered by it.
But by the time a 3rd player, another rotation option Joe Bennett, came-a-whinging a few days later I'd had enough. He's behind 'first team' Cunningham at LB and hasn't exactly shone when given a chance (and I've already had a go at him for being poor in training, which he took well tbf) so I tell him there's a lot of football still to play and he'll get his chance. Yeah, that didn't work. "I don't think it's fair for you to be preaching to me about patience" and then threatens to leave. Erm, what?! I try to appease him but he tells me he has nothing to prove to anybody and he may need to move on.
My reply? That I didn't want to lose him but for him to get his head down, work hard and he'll get his chance. He said there's no point discussing it further and he's not happy.

Next thing I know I've got 3 of his 'social group' banging on my door, demanding to know why I've not promised their pal more playing time.
Being almost strangled by the limited options to me in reply, I choose what I think is best and say that every player needs to earn their place and how would they feel if I took their place away and gave it to someone else? Nope, that doesn't work either. Now I've got 3 more angry players. Great, just friggin great.

I appreciate that players will come to me asking to play more, but after 6-7 games? My DDM ratings are high so I'm even more surprised it's happening so early.

I suspect squad status means very little and this new fandangled dynamics nonsense is far too overpowered.
I think it's quite obvious when one of the options you have to reply to someone's playing time demand is "I think you are a leader in the dressing room and that should spread to the pitch...blah blah blah." NO! Show me you deserve it on the pitch and that you're not just a 33yo has-been with declining skills. I couldn't care less how others perceive you in your social group, if you don't perform on the pitch, you aint gonna play. What's going to be in FM20? Lineups decided depending on how many followers you have on instagram or mytwitfacespace?

When you scout players, one of the key points raised is whether they would fit into your social groups. Why? Who really cares? Unless they are a complete dingbat (hello, Mr Balotelli!) it should rarely come up on a scouting report yet it seems to be on almost every single one, especially for players from abroad. 
I thought initially this 'major negative' might have replaced the warnings about needing to learn the language or about adapting to play in this country but it doesn't as I have a number of players scouted with those concerns plus this stupid social group thing.
Wait, you mean players abroad, or even at other clubs in our division or country, aren't in the same social groups as ones at my club? Imagine my shock :rolleyes:
My fears about how important the game seems to take this increase when my AssMan gives me a list of scouted players who would fit into our social groups :seagull:

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Scouting

Scouting in general - what the heck have they done with this? As others have mentioned, there is now no option to have a 'report card only'. Why has that been removed? Now you have to ask your scouts to watch a player for a minimum of one week or one game and they won't report anything to you before that. Instead, if you want it earlier, you have to go searching for it in the scouting area. Why? Just give me your first opinion of him and then I can decide whether I want you to spend all week looking at him further.

I don't get why the majority of players the scouts come back and recommend (those I haven't even asked for I mean) either don't want to sign, are far too expensive, their clubs will not let them go or the players wouldn't receive a work permit even after an appeal. So why are you wasting my time, filling up my inbox with all these players that you recommend but that we can't have? Have I gone back in time and found myself on 'Bullseye' with Jim Bowen telling me "Look at what you could've won" ??
Even worse, and this might be just me, but I can't find an option to switch all these reports off or, to be more precise, to stop being bombarded with them in my inbox.
I can see the length option to scout a player for, I can see an option of who I want to update me on both the players found and with player search advice but I don't have or can't find a 'sod off and leave me alone' box to tick or even a length of time as to when to give me these updates. Am I missing something?

Also, why have both player and staff searching options become more difficult? For the staff, why have they now hidden away the 'realistic appointments' option so that it's now like some Matryoshka/Babushka doll, in a box within a box? As for the player search, there are 60,427 players in my database. I'm yet to figure out how reliable (I suspect very little) the results are when I tick any of the 'interested in transfer' options. For example, if I choose those who are apparently 'extremely interested', it reduces this number to 39,513. If I go to the other end of the scale and pick 'doubtful', it returns a total of 48,762 players. That's a combined 88,000+ players so are there an extra 28,000 players out there who are unaccounted for? Well, no, my DB does indeed only have 60,000 so I don't really know what these totals mean. I can only presume that there are thousands of players out there that our scouts have no idea about. That would make sense but it would be nice to be informed of that somewhere otherwise it looks like just another pointless 'feature'.

I see the social feed is as dull as ever. Thankfully, I just ignore it but, having just looked at it for the first (and only) time this season and it's the usual 3-pronged response about anything and everything (one good, one bad and one indifferent). If there was a bit of variety I might even take another look at some point. Well, maybe not.

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Tactics and the ME

I really do like the new options you have in your tactics. Breaking it down into the different stages of play is a big plus.
Informing you that a specific PI you have chosen goes against said player's natural trait is also a welcome addition.
I'm yet to get used to all of it but it's improved a lot and quite possibly my favourite part of this year's game.

Unfortunately, this is then almost completely ruined by the ME. I'm not going to blab on about too many aspects of it, it's all been said before by others.

All I'll mention is what spoils the whole game for me.

Seemingly regardless of how I try to set up my team to play, both in attack and defence, the majority of the goals for and against are very predictable.
They will either come from set pieces or they will come from crosses which are generally delivered to unmarked players (the other winger normally) at the far post, completely bypassing any strikers as if they weren't even there.
If your player gets the ball outside the area and decides to try his luck from distance, there's a very good chance he'll score.
If, however, you have a player one-on-one with the GK, you'll be lucky if he does anything else but hit the ball straight at him.
Oh and another one...
If, say, from a corner, the ball is cleared, all the defenders rush out and your strikers just stand there in front of the GK as if they have no awareness that a game is actually taking place. I've had a number of goals disallowed because my player then hits one from distance but my striker is offside and apparently interfering or 'active' even though it looks like he's gone into a coma.
On the rare occasion your player passes it out wide instead of having a pop from 30yds, it's the defenders' turn to be clueless as they don't pick up the strikers at all, so if your wide man can then deliver into the box, it's an easy tap-in.

Meh

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4 hours ago, rjferguson90 said:

Which is still nowhere near the ratio I'm getting in FM...

Yes, that was my point. I was actually agreeing with you

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1 hour ago, Earnie is God! said:

Scouting in general - what the heck have they done with this? As others have mentioned, there is now no option to have a 'report card only'

Recently posted about this quite indirectly to the report card comment and no one said anything. I've posted it countless times in the sub forums that's more particular and nothing was gained from it. Should've been kept, it's very hard to find players off the grid out of the limelight. For example brazil have a lot unnoticed yet you get about 20 players a season from a scout regardless of how many you've put in that place as they cross roads with the same players even if you specifically sort your instructions. Scouting has gone backward in my opinion and it's certainly longer which takes the fun out of finding wonder kids manually- rather google it now or download shortlists.  

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Suggestion: I would like to be able to use the space bar hotkey more to go forward in the game. As for now it can only be used for a few dialogue boxes.

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Injuries are just a joke now they've been nerfed so much because a few people who weren't able to squad manage cried like babies when the game came out. 

I'm in January of the 2nd season in my latest save, and I've had a total of FOUR injuries for the entire season. Hardly any injuries at the other clubs either. As much as I'm usually alright at avoiding injuries for the most part, this is just ridiculous now. It's killing the immersion, and I've now got unhappy players (rightly) complaining about lack of playing time as they aren't getting a chance due to my strongest XI always being fit. Injuries may have been higher than SI wanted when the game first came out, but at least it was manageable. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Injuries are just a joke now they've been nerfed so much because a few people who weren't able to squad manage cried like babies when the game came out. 

I'm in January of the 2nd season in my latest save, and I've had a total of FOUR injuries for the entire season. Hardly any injuries at the other clubs either. As much as I'm usually alright at avoiding injuries for the most part, this is just ridiculous now. It's killing the immersion, and I've now got unhappy players (rightly) complaining about lack of playing time as they aren't getting a chance due to my strongest XI always being fit. Injuries may have been higher than SI wanted when the game first came out, but at least it was manageable. 

I disagree. I think it's pretty fine now. Every now and then someone gets 4-6 weeks injury and very often 2-3 in the same position at the same time. You need to rotate more, use 2 saved squad picks and rotate them each match like I do.

Edited by Dreambuilder

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Just now, Dreambuilder said:

I disagree. I think it's pretty fine now. Every now and then someone gets 4-6 weeks injury and very often 2-3 in the same position at the same time.

Of the four injuries I've had, the longest was for four days. 

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No Goal. Just feel my pain :D 

20190407000103_1.thumb.jpg.bd02423ef10ae26804076de2319114be.jpg

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ExeR said:

Long shots are a mess again. It's final piece of on again/off again holy trinity: width, crossing, long shots. I had 5% chances convertion rate and 33% SoG. Pretty sure you have to dig deep to find those in "just like in real life" examples. 

Well purely stats-wise, depends whether over the entire Season or not. This is vice versa, but still: Burnley last term by mid December (match day #18) had comfortably conceded the most shots in all the top leagues in Europe (20 average per match, About half of them "on target"). Yet had conceded as few Goals as Pep's City (12), whose Opposition barely got a crack at Goal, let alone near it. In other words: Burnley's opposition's conversion Ratio stood at ~3%. Or in yet another words: For half a Season all EPL Opposition needed 30 shots on average to finally score a Goal against Burnley. In an FMers language, they had "FM'd" the hell out of the entire league.

(Usually the AI Bottom Teams oft have this low conversion ratios as due to their extremely defensiveness in most games they barely ever work moves… reason I bring up Burnley is in parts as it outside of ME related issues also may be some relevant to the Topic at Hand -- as from my end, even compared to Burnley, the AI's defensive tactics are arguably a tad extreme and have Always been :D

Edited by Svenc

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5 hours ago, Svenc said:

Well purely stats-wise, depends whether over the entire Season or not. This is vice versa, but still: Burnley last term by mid December (match day #18) had comfortably conceded the most shots in all the top leagues in Europe.

Burnley have a plan for that, it doesn't just happen. You can't even implement that style properly in FM, there's no functionality to focus on blocking and opponent's shot zone control. But that's not coming from defensive side of the ball. Chelsea would be better example, they can't convert through passes and score from outside. But for every Chelsea there's City, who consistently cracks parked buses from outside. That's where my complaint is coming from. I've tested more than enough against all kinds of styles, and there's too much of "Burnley's opponent" and almost none of "City, Totenham, Arsenal". Even if I give players sick stats, that are better than those of EPL players in worse leagues. 

As for AI being more prone to parking bus, I get it. But unlike City, I can't control opp's counterattacks with the way I attack like they do. As I said about width, you can't build up in half spaces or width, it's gonna be "MUM, I'M CROSSING" disaster again and again. And my wing forwards won't rush back as Sane does. So instead of 0 SoG like Bournemouth had against them, they'll always have some break through. But this is "in a perfect world" territory now. What I was talking about is much more destructive and frequent. Long shot preferred moves became some meta joke now. So many of them compared to their impact. Version after version people with poor vertical compactness or disfunctional roles complain about them. Yet the styles they should be perfect for it doesn't show opposite results. Even if you give them Hulk like shot, it won't matter. And unlike Hulk, who also had low percentage of realisation in some seasons,  he opened game for his team and for his goals from inside the box by bending defences and having them respect his shot and react to him approaching box. And you'll never get splits like in his "good" seasons, where he scores almost as much from outside as he does from the box. So long shot ability doesn't deliver the upside on two fronts: productivity and affect on defence.

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13 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Injuries are just a joke now they've been nerfed so much because a few people who weren't able to squad manage cried like babies when the game came out. 

I'm in January of the 2nd season in my latest save, and I've had a total of FOUR injuries for the entire season. Hardly any injuries at the other clubs either. As much as I'm usually alright at avoiding injuries for the most part, this is just ridiculous now. It's killing the immersion, and I've now got unhappy players (rightly) complaining about lack of playing time as they aren't getting a chance due to my strongest XI always being fit. Injuries may have been higher than SI wanted when the game first came out, but at least it was manageable. 

I would maybe not go as far as calling them a joke, but I agree that the injury rate is too low and too easy to manage. Rotating a bit and manage training and matches properly and injuries are next to non-existent. I'll get the odd injury, but very rarely. Maybe suggesting a "realistic injuries" as an optional choice in future FM could be implemented? You know, where injuries are more frequent and make it harder to keep players fresh? Of course, this would impact ALL teams in a save. I dunno, just a thought.

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Posted (edited)

Not so sure it's too low overall; it just doesn't seem to have the right balance.

If you have players who are naturally fit and not injury prone, manage them right and they rarely get injured.
But it seems to me that those at the other end of the scale are almost constantly on the treatment table.

Now whether this is a mistake on our part, as the manager perhaps rushing a player back too quickly, or whether it's the game itself not displaying or informing you properly of a player's real condition, it's not that easy to say.

In previous versions of FM, and we are talking well over a decade now, we have learned to understand and interpret player conditions, in no small part down to the fact that we have lovely little physical condition and match sharpness percentages to look at. If a player is fit but has 70% match sharpness, we know not to rush him back, perhaps play 45min. We've taught ourselves this from years of playing the game but these new 'injury risk' warnings are making us second guess ourselves. I'm getting a number of 'high risk' warnings for players who have played 3 games in 14 days and I'm wondering why. The players are fit and not injury prone. Match fatigue for playing Sunday/Saturday/Saturday? It's not really something that would have bothered me before but this version is different. Do I go with what I'm being told or do I trust my instinct? At the moment I'd have to say that instinct is losing the battle in a big way and the game is making fun of me...

Personally, I think it might be more down to the new training schedules than playing time. I'm yet to get a proper grip on training, it seems too faffy for my liking, and so my AssMan is in control of it. Maybe he's training them too hard but it doesn't seem like it. The only complaints I've had so far about training from my players, and we are only talking about 3-4 instances here, is that the general training is too low. Perhaps the pre-season training he had them on wasn't right and we are going to suffer for months. I'm yet to figure it out tbh
At least I haven't had a player suffer a reported 66 injuries in 8 seasons though, like someone claimed a few pages back on this thread.

Edited by Earnie is God!

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ExeR said:

Burnley have a plan for that, it doesn't just happen. You can't even implement that style properly in FM, there's no functionality to focus on blocking and opponent's shot zone control. 

I agree with that. This is a Level of Micro specifics not in the game (and if it were, it would be just another Edge over the AI).

https://player.vimeo.com/video/203842966

 

The defensive AI is still coded About making space much harder to come by -- and it's arguably still used to readily. Within FM's context, you can face Burnley's spoil Sports focused on defending in sequence -- and even decent sides could do it. Plus, whilst the attackingn side of the game is a tad more tweakable arguably, you can't replicate everything there also, so things tend to even out a bit. Your entire big Posts is About such limitations to begin with. 

That said, the last time on this series I personally had a Long-term shot conversion Ratio of 5%  :eek:I was doign something I consider "experimental garbage" for the laugh -- both in-game, as well as Football. Which is also part of the Long-term Problem. Despite the premise is that the game were to simulate semi/professional Football, the game lets both Players as well as AI do stuff that just doesn't happen in real Football..... and on Occasion, it's not at all apparent this is being done. F'r instance, to me, the "width" for stretching the pitch in the final third had to Always mainly come from a full back, as the wide attacking Players tended to tuck inside in the final third, which in real Football they do not necessarily. Or that the "Depth" in tendency has to Always come from a central midfielder who's stays deepish, as once the ball has moved past them, the centre backs are "out of the game" for a host of reasons (which in Football they are not).

As the AI is allowed such "experimental" stuff too though, it makes it less competitive also. Long-term I'd personally prefer if the game were to narrow the corridor of decisions down to "sensible" Football decisions, and perhaps get rid of possibly nonsensical Micro tweaks entirelly -- in particular considering that the Micro Level is where the AI will be the least competitive by Definition. Unless SI manage to Code Skynet one day, they cannot possibly come up with an AI that is able to read the match Play on a Micro Level of Detail, as well as make coherent decisions off it.

May also make testing the game a tad easier. Plus the engine iterations more consistent in how they develop.

Edited by Svenc

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19 hours ago, CFuller said:

I'd imagine that is how some major clubs work in real life when it comes to attracting big players. Don't forget that you can try this trick on other clubs. 

 

I agree with the original poster.

Yes this is how I believe it works but that does not make it realistic because in FM, every single time PSG makes a bid my player is unsettled. I also had an unsettled player because of a bid by Tottenham (who were Europa league team) and most recently Chelsea who have become a mid-table team in my save. I manage Real Madrid, have one 8 league titles in a row, 8x copa dely rey, 7x champions league etc., and yet my players are unhappy all the time because a mid-table team bid for them? Come on.

Anyways, I finally decided to sell my key player to PSG because he said they had offered him great wages and I was tired of his moaning. I checked his new contract. They gave him 25 K more than me. Yes, some bonuses were definitely included but....again, come on.

I understand that the devs want to make it more challenging for us but they have to do it in a realistic way.

The game relies more and more on interactions which are severely flawed and limited.

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3 minutes ago, Martin#2 said:

Yes this is how I believe it works but that does not make it realistic because in FM, every single time PSG makes a bid my player is unsettled. I also had an unsettled player because of a bid by Tottenham (who were Europa league team) and most recently Chelsea who have become a mid-table team in my save. I manage Real Madrid, have one 8 league titles in a row, 8x copa dely rey, 7x champions league etc., and yet my players are unhappy all the time because a mid-table team bid for them? Come on.

Reputation, money, higher squad status... could be many reasons why a player would want to move.

Why did N'Golo Kanté leave the league champions to sign for the team that finished 10th three years ago? Yes, I know it's a completely different scenario, but my point still stands.

If your players are unhappy all the time (not sure if hyperbole or not) because you won't let them join other clubs, and you can't get them back on side again, then it's likely that either they don't massively trust you or your man-management skills are poor.

But here's the thing. You are Real Madrid. You are dominating Spanish and European football. You can use exactly the same tricks that PSG, Tottenham and Chelsea use to unsettle THEIR players. You could bid low, get rejected, speak to the press, keep bidding, keep getting rejected, see if the player gets grumpy, and then take it from there. Sound familiar?

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5 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Reputation, money, higher squad status... could be many reasons why a player would want to move.

Why did N'Golo Kanté leave the league champions to sign for the team that finished 10th three years ago? Yes, I know it's a completely different scenario, but my point still stands.

If your players are unhappy all the time (not sure if hyperbole or not) because you won't let them join other clubs, and you can't get them back on side again, then it's likely that either they don't massively trust you or your man-management skills are poor.

But here's the thing. You are Real Madrid. You are dominating Spanish and European football. You can use exactly the same tricks that PSG, Tottenham and Chelsea use to unsettle THEIR players. You could bid low, get rejected, speak to the press, keep bidding, keep getting rejected, see if the player gets grumpy, and then take it from there. Sound familiar?

I have unsettled many players in my time, trust me mate:-D I know I can do the same things as AI but my point is that it is too easy predictable and unrealistic.

And yes, 9/10 times I refuse a bid my player is angry because I blocked a move that would be a great step in his career....well, yeah, sure:-D

I would conclude: Interactions should be in the game but they should not be as important as now until they can make them more realistic. Just my opinion, but for me, interactions are seriously breaking immersion.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, XaW said:

I would maybe not go as far as calling them a joke, but I agree that the injury rate is too low and too easy to manage. Rotating a bit and manage training and matches properly and injuries are next to non-existent. I'll get the odd injury, but very rarely. Maybe suggesting a "realistic injuries" as an optional choice in future FM could be implemented? You know, where injuries are more frequent and make it harder to keep players fresh? Of course, this would impact ALL teams in a save. I dunno, just a thought.

Which also means that the AI mostly has its key Players all available, whilst actually injury crisis contributing to upsets are few and far between. The Problem with injury Feedback is a) the inherent randomness (for everybody who experiences no much injuries at all there will be someone who still does the opposite). And b) the law of large numbes / sample sizes (see Tim Cain in my video at the top of the page). Even if you do Nothing "wrong", you can still see a streak of injuries, even if all Players aren't much injury prone at all. In a Computer Code in particular, if there is a mathematical probability of something occuring, it will occur. This is a game played by thousands and thousands, many of which log on to it every week/day. Plus, whilst you can influence the probability of an injury occuring somewhat, and whilst the game doesn't attach numbers to it, it's obviously never to the Point that it Drops to Zero. 

Naturally, those who consistently see what they perceive as "too many injuries" are those who are going to respond the strongest. Conversely, when the entire league is fit for most of the season, that's never reported at all. And with that, you basically have About 80% of the injury bug section every year in a nutshell. This is not going to go away until SI hard-code conditions such as, say:

If three Forwards are injured, then no more injuries to another Forward.
If threee penalties are missed in a row, the next one goes in. (kidding)
If Player has lost four Matches on the bounce, the next match is a win. (kidding)

Which naturally isn't much like an open-ended Simulation of Football much as things don't tend to work that way (go as Pep back at Bayern). :D It's still what Players according to Designers of "more traditional" games would prefer. I agree that implementing customizable Levels of injuries would be likely the most easiest Thing done. There have been community Patches that try to lower (as well as raise) injuries for a couple years now. However, unless one of those Options lets Players drop the probabilities of injuries occuring to 0%....

Edited by Svenc

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Posted (edited)

More man management promise-related garbage.  Some newgen wants to leave.  In fact, he even says there's "nothing" I can say to make him stay.  No amount of money, no promise, no nothing.  Why does he want to leave?  We're right in the middle of a title challenge and competing for 3 major trophies, so who the hell knows.  So I promise to sell him for no less than 39M.

Well, Man City makes a bid.  It's 27M plus 11M in installments.  The total in the lower right corner says 38M.  So I reject it.  Apparently I broke the promise somehow and he's furious.

Thanks FM.  Well done as usual.

Edited by jujigatame

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22 hours ago, Earnie is God! said:

It would appear that this has turned into a bit of a rant so I've split it up into separate posts so I don't have people saying "My eyes! MY EYES!!"

I'm managing Cardiff in FM19 and, as previously mentioned, I only bought the game 2wks ago but have been playing FM for roughly 20yrs and you don't have to have played FM19 for weeks on end to see a number of glaring issues. It isn't all negative of course, there are a number of improvements and I especially like the tactical options but overall the negatives, for me and a number of others it seems, outweigh the positives. I read through just about all of this thread, only skipped a few pages here and there, before buying the game and I have to agree with a lot of the problems already mentioned, even those in the beginning before any of the patches, as some are still there.

We'll get to the dynamics shortly, but my main annoyances early on are to do with scouting, transfers and playing time.

First up, nonsensical interactions with players.

20190401095045_1.thumb.jpg.f605768a1fa4ad075b2289ec3bc651bb.jpg

After telling Ashley Richards he has no future here, he seemed to react positively to my request for him to find a new club.
However, after a couple of weeks or so of no offers and nothing seemingly happening, I decided to take the matter back into my own hands and offer him out again.
This was his reaction...
20190401095109_1.thumb.jpg.6c540a6cdb78ce26c27f849b44c85e82.jpg20190401095118_1.thumb.jpg.46c95cffebd6ca55a7e031483a3f264f.jpg20190401095127_1.thumb.jpg.a7c5eb9118737d4b048012c943e0b168.jpg

Really? You'd already accepted you weren't going to play for me and you were supposed to be trying to find yourself a new club.
Fearing that this will disrupt the squad, I was beginning to get annoyed.
Thankfully, we received a bid shortly afterwards and I was glad to see him leave.
But it shouldn't really happen like that.

This has been the same for a few versions now. #Lackofattentiontodetail

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Just had a player "Unavailable to play football for personal reasons" until the end of the season.
We are still only in October and this is a youngster I bought, Callum Gribbin from Man U.

I didn't get any info about it, nothing in my inbox, he just became unavailable. No elaboration on his profile either.
Google was not my friend for a change, found nothing about it.

However, I need to trust these forums more as there is an answer out there. On a Man U thread, someone else asked the question and apparently the answer is that Gribbin, in real life, is taking a break from football from October 2018 until the end of June 2019 when his Man U contract expires. This ties in with what has happened in my game.
I hope he stays in the game though, would be a shame if not.

Thankfully, as his skills have not developed fully yet, we aren't going to miss him in my save but it would have been nice to have got a message in my inbox about it.

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1 hour ago, jujigatame said:

More man management promise-related garbage.  Some newgen wants to leave.  In fact, he even says there's "nothing" I can say to make him stay.  No amount of money, no promise, no nothing.  Why does he want to leave?  We're right in the middle of a title challenge and competing for 3 major trophies, so who the hell knows.  So I promise to sell him for no less than 39M.

Well, Man City makes a bid.  It's 27M plus 11M in installments.  The total in the lower right corner says 38M.  So I reject it.  Apparently I broke the promise somehow and he's furious.

Thanks FM.  Well done as usual.

This is Fm interaction in a nutshell. But my main gripe this year is contract demands. You give a player a nice contract for five years, meet all his contractual conditions and five months later he is back with another contract demand.

This is, in my opinion, the most ridiculous thing about man management this year and is an example of a "feature" that should not be in the game at all, if it cannot be executed properly.

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The workaround I've found for most man management nonsense is just to flatter them about their locker room influence. That makes them go away most of the time, although it only works on "highly influential" players.

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5 minutes ago, Earnie is God! said:

Just had a player "Unavailable to play football for personal reasons" until the end of the season.

had this on my koln save, worst of all it was modeste (by far my best striker). didn't have a clue what was going on but now that you brought it up and i checked wikipedia...

"In August 2018 Modeste went AWOL and returned to Germany. On November 17 he was given a contract to return to 1. FC Köln until 2023.[44] Modeste also sued Tianjin Quanjian to FIFA in order to cancel the player contract, which the Chinese club made a counter-sue.:lol:

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Posted (edited)
21 минуту назад, Martin#2 сказал:

You give a player a nice contract for five years, meet all his contractual conditions and five months later he is back with another contract demand

As I can see it works if your results is very good. Players have a good raiting, mb personal attributes progress too,  so they asking about new contract because they dont understand that its your success only. I never see this issue in playing of realistic tactics. Even I won 2st portuguese league (even = I mean that we had a good % of win plus milestone), we had win series, we lose points and no one player asking about new 'extraordinary' contract.

Just my notice, maybe I'm lucky in this issue

Edited by Novem9

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7 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

they dont understand

 

Precisely. They dont understand. And since AI interaction IQ and user´s options to deal with it are so basic and limited, we would be better off without it, at least I would.

18 minutes ago, jujigatame said:

The workaround I've found for most man management nonsense is just to flatter them about their locker room influence. That makes them go away most of the time, although it only works on "highly influential" players.

The only "bullet-proof" solution is to use the in-game editor and click on: Remove all unhappiness. Problem solved.

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I'm sorry, but I don't buy this "INTERACTIONS ARE BROKEN :mad:" nonsense.

If players are 'demanding' new contracts after six months, then it could be because they have had a significant reputation boost and are now earning far less than they perhaps should be. Or they might feel they can get a better deal elsewhere.

I had this happen in my Fiorentina save, when a Colombian midfielder signed on €9k per week made an instant impact and wanted €30k per week to reflect his value to the team. I was initially reluctant to offer him a new contract, but I thought better of it and did give him a new deal. In that scenario, his request was probably justified.

On the other hand, if the player has not justified a pay rise, and they're not particularly influential squad members, show them who's boss. Don't be afraid to stand your ground and say no. Believe it or not, having one or two unhappy players is not the end of the world, and it's certainly not guaranteed to result in a mutiny.

If you just relent every time a player politely asks for a new contract/storms into your office without warning and puts a firearm to your head (delete where appropriate), the rest of your players will eventually see you as a walkover. They'll then try the same tricks on you, confident that you'll cave in to their demands just as easily.

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3 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this "INTERACTIONS ARE BROKEN :mad:" nonsense.

If players are 'demanding' new contracts after six months, then it could be because they have had a significant reputation boost and are now earning far less than they perhaps should be. Or they might feel they can get a better deal elsewhere.

I had this happen in my Fiorentina save, when a Colombian midfielder signed on €9k per week made an instant impact and wanted €30k per week to reflect his value to the team. I was initially reluctant to offer him a new contract, but I thought better of it and did give him a new deal. In that scenario, his request was probably justified.

On the other hand, if the player has not justified a pay rise, and they're not particularly influential squad members, show them who's boss. Don't be afraid to stand your ground and say no. Believe it or not, having one or two unhappy players is not the end of the world, and it's certainly not guaranteed to result in a mutiny.

If you just relent every time a player politely asks for a new contract/storms into your office without warning and puts a firearm to your head (delete where appropriate), the rest of your players will eventually see you as a walkover. They'll then try the same tricks on you, confident that you'll cave in to their demands just as easily.

You see those pics uploaded by another user few hours ago documenting nonsensical interaction, do you? You dont think that it is broken?

You dont think that it is broken when you promise a guy to sell him and you receive zero offers but he still causes a mutiny?

No, there was no change in their reputation, all my players, after all those years are world class, famous players, earning top wages. And sorry, but if you sign a new contract then you have no business asking for another one after 5 months even if your reputation changed. If this was isolated ,fair enough, but it is not. There is one player in real life whose contract is modified almost every year, and that dude is Leo Messi. And even his contract is not improved every five months.

 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Martin#2 said:

You see those pics uploaded by another user few hours ago documenting nonsensical interaction, do you? You dont think that it is broken?

You dont think that it is broken when you promise a guy to sell him and you receive zero offers but he still causes a mutiny?

No, there was no change in their reputation, all my players, after all those years are world class, famous players, earning top wages. And sorry, but if you sign a new contract then you have no business asking for another one after 5 months even if your reputation changed. If this was isolated ,fair enough, but it is not. There is one player in real life whose contract is modified almost every year, and that dude is Leo Messi. And even his contract is not improved every five months.

  

Where exactly in the examples above did the player cause a mutiny? I can't see anything that suggests that.

Edited by CFuller
Deleted some of my comments because they were uncalled for. Apologies.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Martin#2 said:

This is Fm interaction in a nutshell. But my main gripe this year is contract demands. You give a player a nice contract for five years, meet all his contractual conditions and five months later he is back with another contract demand.

This is, in my opinion, the most ridiculous thing about man management this year and is an example of a "feature" that should not be in the game at all, if it cannot be executed properly.

Well, I don't experience this much. I have had a couple of those things, but I play hardball with them and tell them "no". Most of the time they accept it, but sometimes they sulk. However, that often happens because of their poor personalities (or in effect, the stats behind it). I've never had a player revolt that I couldn't handle. I've had instances where it's starting, but I've handled it with strict discipline and shown the players I won't be taken advantage of. The times this has happened is when I've taken over big jobs with a low reputation, and to be fair, that is realistic. If you take the Barcelona job with a "Sunday league" reputation and no badges, then you are just an average Joe who the players don't respect.

That said, I do think that sometimes the promises in game are way to black/white to be realistic. And with few possibilities to clarify why said promise are unable to be fulfilled. An example I've posted about earlier (in either the bugs section or the suggestion section, I can't remember which), is that I agreed to give a player a new contract, but his agent insisted on a release clause of his current value. I couldn't change it, nor remove it. I don't want a player with a release clause far too low, so I couldn't offer a contract. In that situation I would want to be able to explain to the player that I can't come to terms with his agent because of the clause. The player could then either 1) accept not getting a contract and the promise is removed, 2) tell his agent to change his terms, or 3) still be pissed about it because he is an idiot. What choice the player select is based on his personality, relationship with the club and the manager, randomness and probably a lot of other influences.

My point here is that each and every situation that you don't agree with the game should be posted in the bugs section with a description and explain how you would see the feature improved. As far as I could see you haven't posted anything like that, so I hope you will. This can only make the game better in the future. Unlike many other developers/publishers SI do listen to constructive criticism and do make changes when issues are reported or better suggestions are put forth by the community.

Edit: At worst, SI staff will explain why things happened, so maybe you can change your approach to handling players. I'm not sure if it is a thing in the game or not, but for me it seems like players react differently if you show to be a pushover to player demands rather than being strict, and if they see you as a pushover they will try to exploit it to get better contracts and or make you promise stuff that is hard to deliver on.

Edited by XaW

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9 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Where exactly in the examples above did the player cause a mutiny? I can't see anything that suggests that.

I was not referring to his player in this example but mine, should have specified it better.

But since you are nitpicking I guess this discussion is going nowhere. You say its fine I say its not, no big deal.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, XaW said:

 

That said, I do think that sometimes the promises in game are way to black/white to be realistic. And with few possibilities to clarify why said promise are unable to be fulfilled.

100% agree with this, it is too limited and leaves you with very little to work with.

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