Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[jujigatame]

36 minutes ago, Mons said:

Isn't that just the vagaries of form though? You've just described Salah last season and this season...

Yes and no.  FM feels like much more predictable form of variation.  Whereas you might naturally think "oh, his attributes are X/Y/Z so I can predict a certain level of performance, with unpredictable variations through the season" it feels more like "his morale is X so I can predict he will get a boost/penalty in this match".

I guess it's not a new thing but more of a long-time complaint for me, that FM often feels like morale manager.  Like if you keep morale high then your team consistently look like world-beaters who can keep pace with significantly bigger clubs.  Low morale means they're listless and sluggish and will struggle to win close matches against poor clubs.  It's just an aspect of the game I've never really enjoyed contending with, similar to man management.

[Novem9]

1 час назад, jujigatame сказал:

Yes and no.  FM feels like much more predictable form of variation.  Whereas you might naturally think "oh, his attributes are X/Y/Z so I can predict a certain level of performance, with unpredictable variations through the season" it feels more like "his morale is X so I can predict he will get a boost/penalty in this match".

I guess it's not a new thing but more of a long-time complaint for me, that FM often feels like morale manager.  Like if you keep morale high then your team consistently look like world-beaters who can keep pace with significantly bigger clubs.  Low morale means they're listless and sluggish and will struggle to win close matches against poor clubs.  It's just an aspect of the game I've never really enjoyed contending with, similar to man management.

Agree. No matter IRL examples or analogy - Morale too much important in FM mechanics. 

Football manager about tactics and transfers, other things is nice additional functions, advanced details. But no basic mechanics. For now I back in FM08 (LOL!) and enjoy the absense of some things which tired me in modern versions.

For now morale in FM so elevate that footballers looks like infantile children. Huddersfield has 14 points only - mass suicide in FM rules?  IRL footballers keep playing every game because its WORK of them.

If serioulisly I hope SI rethink morale case of FM because morale burst is highly overvalued

[Federico]

But morale can definitely be a massive factor in any sport.

Football is work but it's competition as well, and for some of them it's competition exclusively.

[thomas_e]

Player development: Are there any general guidelines for player development when it comes to loan vs. development in youth teams? I loan out players a lot, but I think it might not be beneficial for their development as the teams I loan them out to do not have great traning facilities and coaches. 

[BigV]

58 minutes ago, thomas_e said:

Player development: Are there any general guidelines for player development when it comes to loan vs. development in youth teams? I loan out players a lot, but I think it might not be beneficial for their development as the teams I loan them out to do not have great traning facilities and coaches. 

Depends, have some develop in the u23/18 and loan some that hardly get game time or those that you think could do with experience out on the field. The way to know is where the level of the player is in terms of ability and what league they are adapted to. So a 2 star can be at a championship level and if he's doing well or over performing or even struggling loaning him could do wonders given that the experience can help their team and your players development. Happy to help through normal message with screenshots and some data that could be useful. 

[thisana]

Still NO Demo update.. Why??

[Svenc]

There is ONE huge big fat difference between real Football and FM either way. It's that real Managers in don't have brightly coloured red and green morale arrows they could Attribute every single Thing Happening in a match to. At least in some cases, maybe for the better, as else they'd just give in. My historical experience all throughout this game series is that as Long as Forwards Pop up into genuine space and/or into chances that from playing experience you know are pretty regularly converted, they'll eventually score some. Doesn't matter their attributes, what they had for dinner, or anything. This is actually mass demonstrated in the tactical download sections in particular every single release… or all the guys venting over their defenderless wonder tactics gifting the AI every time it goes Forwards space on a silver platter (1 shot 1 Goal). Which is also a difference to real Football, as there's copious evidence that Forward can struggle to score despite having decent chances for weeks, or in CR7's case last Season: months. In other words: If a forward's return on Goals runs dry and this persists, in-game anyway, his chances visibly look different to before. And/or he has fewer off them, which would be displayed in his profile, as this collects the amount of attempts for each match.

Which may be one of the reasons why SI don't deal in anything approaching xG or post shot xG models. In Theory, they could give us precise numbers of "scoring probabilities" for each Chance, as their Code is Maths, and that is what they calculate on each chance/resulting shot. Which is something real Managers can only Dream About; and similar to all the Analysis Tools introduced (from the game's stats to deeper tactical Analysis tools, either ignored or actually used) would likely just provide another big fat Edge over the game's AI.  

 

18 hours ago, jujigatame said:

Yes and no.  FM feels like much more predictable form of variation.  Whereas you might naturally think "oh, his attributes are X/Y/Z so I can predict a certain level of performance, with unpredictable variations through the season" it feels more like "his morale is X so I can predict he will get a boost/penalty in this match".

There may be a difference though between giving a player a boost or a Penalty -- and both resulting in either the Player having a mare or him having a class game. Evidently players can perform Pretty fine even if their confidence isn't at their very best, they're ungelled and not particularly match fit -- whilst the guy you coaxed out of international retirement, who's supposed to thrive in the big Matches, is fully fit and fully confident, can make the error that Costs you a final (happened to me on previous). 

And that's how it should be. It can't be on/off switches for pretty much everything. IIRC this is ensured either way by the following: a) The Boosts/penalties aren't huge. b) The morale/confidence related ones mainly affect mental attributes. c) They are relative to the player's starting attributes, e.g. a Player with reasonable high stats will never drop to like "1" -- and as we know, even that "1" means he's still a Football Player, as that's what FM simulates. He will still kick a ball. He's just a tad more likely to drop it.  In that sense it's kinda dangerous to introduce Feedback like that. All the red/green arrows seem Pretty clear cut Feedback into what is kind of a "black box". If SI would introduce Feedback as to each player's hidden Consistency values, say red and green dots displaying whether the Player come the next match is at his best or possibly worst, similar would occur. 

 

And who knows (I don't), the Boosts and penalties as to hidden Consistency may actually be bigger than any of this, and actually affect physical and technical attributes too.

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Svenc

[enigmatic]

There are pretty easy (almost game-y) fixes for morale with a side in horrendous form like Huddersfield anyway (including the "free extra determination points for no risk" formal warnings...) so I think you're probably a lot better off managing a side like them in FM than real life anyway. Even before you take into account the fact there are reasonable tactical setups that'll overperform to a sufficient degree to make Huddersfield challenge for a place in Europe, and signing better players is really easy...

[jujigatame]

Quote

And who knows (I don't), the Boosts and penalties as to hidden Consistency may actually be bigger than any of this, and actually affect physical and technical attributes too.
 

Actually while it may seem contradictory to my prior posts, I don't care for the "consistency" attribute at all.  I think consistency should be baked into every other attribute already and it makes no sense to have another dedicated consistency attribute on top of that.  For instance, if my long shots is an 8, I should be capable of nailing a beautiful screamer once in a blue moon.  I just can't do it consistently.

Having it be an additional attribute just adds another element of opaque randomness to the ME.

[jujigatame]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

There are pretty easy (almost game-y) fixes for morale with a side in horrendous form like Huddersfield anyway (including the "free extra determination points for no risk" formal warnings...) so I think you're probably a lot better off managing a side like them in FM than real life anyway. Even before you take into account the fact there are reasonable tactical setups that'll overperform to a sufficient degree to make Huddersfield challenge for a place in Europe, and signing better players is really easy...

It's true that holding team meetings is almost a bit of a cheat code in FM.  You get a pretty big morale boost across the board which can totally turn a season around.

Also it does seem like ultra-aggressive tactics (high pressing, high tempo) are a bit OP in this ME and I've been slowly gravitating my tactics towards them over several seasons.

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, enigmatic said:

There are pretty easy (almost game-y) fixes for morale with a side in horrendous form like Huddersfield anyway (including the "free extra determination points for no risk" formal warnings...) so I think you're probably a lot better off managing a side like them in FM than real life anyway. 

The same goes for Teams such as Real Madrid, etc. Even on the Level of AI Management, btw. Even if they underperform, it barely ever happens the way big Teams (semi-)regularly drop Points in real Football.

That said, having a consistent scorer is and has always been about the type of chances, which is the space of the pitches, which is influenced by tactical choices by both Teams in any one's match. Since not every AI will Play equal… and since how they perceive any one Team in the game world dynamically changes depending on each team's results (favorite to be cautious against, roughly equal, outsider to beat no matter what)… If a Forward continues to have that space, he will continue to score with some regularity (bear in mind this does not equal every single match). This may be more difficult in FM19 as due to the aforementioned forward movement "issues" and the AI's tendency to Play bunker tactics. Anything else is a massively FM MYTH (acknowledged and proven by anybody who has somewhat "mastered" the game). In General, the game to me appears lots more predictable and "manageable" than real Football in General (in parts also due to AI). But then if it were otherwise, … Part of the game's "Problem" may be that you don't Need to dig particularly Deep, and may still hold your own against said AI / generally perform just fine. So why bother Looking as Skin-Deep as checking each Forwards shot stats whenever he appears to be in a "rut", and see if he has fewer shots now to prior (or even better yet, from different positions and mostly set pieces / jam packed boxes as opposed to open Play etc.?) The AI doesn't (and can't) do this either, draw "intelligent" conclusions and make better decisions off it, after all.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Svenc

[Bigpapa42]

This probably more a rant than anything, but stuff like this is frustrating and just feels buggy. 

In the middle of the second season in Brazil. One of my star players says he's looking for a new challenge. Fair enough - I promise to attempt to sell him. He's a versatile attacker and 28 years old (not that common to have "in their prime" players in Brazil). Value is 15m and he's on a relatively low wage - 12K per week. It was August 30th I made this promise. I started offering him out. I started fairly high. After an offer or two, I encouraged him to try to find a club and he agreed. I continued to offer him out, dropping 1m each time. I've been burned before by offering players out way too low to start - a club will make a locked offer which tends to anger the player if you reject it, even though its massively below their "value". The only clubs interested in the player are MLS clubs wanting him on loan. Its now September 7th and he is saying he's going to cause a squad revolt because I failed to make any effort. What... what other effort can I make? 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Bigpapa42

[XaW]

3 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

This probably more a rant than anything, but stuff like this is frustrating and just feels buggy. 

In the middle of the second season in Brazil. One of my star players says he's looking for a new challenge. Fair enough - I promise to attempt to sell him. He's a versatile attacker and 28 years old (not that common to have "in their prime" players in Brazil). Value is 15m and he's on a relatively low wage - 12K per week. It was August 30th I made this promise. I started offering him out. I started fairly high. After an offer or two, I encouraged him to try to find a club and he agreed. I continued to offer him out, dropping 1m each time. I've been burned before by offering players out way too low to start - a club will make a locked offer which tends to anger the player if you reject it, even though its massively below their "value". The only clubs interested in the player are MLS clubs wanting him on loan. Its now September 7th and he is saying he's going to cause a squad revolt because I failed to make any effort. What... what other effort can I make? 

I usually just offer him out at a high value and then, if I don't get any takers, ask him to take responsibility since he is pushing for the move. Then if I get a high bid, I sell, if I get a low bid, I negotiate or reject, then tell him the finances was wrong. If we don't get any bids at all, then he often is satisfied with things.

Though, players who want new challenges is hard to persuade to stay at any rate, so I would sell him, even at a lower price than normal. AI teams know he wants to leave, so why should they pay a premium for the player?

[BMNJohn]

7 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

What... what other effort can I make? 

Not make any promises anymore. The promise system has very little upsides for you: your only benefit is not pissing off the player... and potentially the locker room. And it's easier to reason with the locker room than with one player, usually with a variant on "why would you want to make the team weaker?".  While dictatorial, it's easier to tell the player to shove it and take the morale hit rather than make a promise that binds you more than it binds the player. After you tell him to shove it, if a club bids you sell because he's going to annoy the locker room (especially if recent results aren't great), if no club bids well... he can rot until he changes his mind.  After all, if he was so obviously carrying the team he would receive offers, even crappy ones.

It's not really recent stuff that the promises module is well due for an overhaul; my general advice is to avoid promises as much as possible. I personally only see them as constraints that bind me. No player's whim is bigger than the club.

Edited March 28, 2019 by BMNJohn

[kingking]

There used to be a bug where the wage limit for clubs like city was set to low (350k) despite how good the finances was, most good players ask for 450k-500k

 

is the bug still present?

Edited March 28, 2019 by kingking

[upthetoon]

strikers not scoring this game? Tammy has been on fire the last 11 games..

Spoiler

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by upthetoon

[jujigatame]

My experience with striker scoring is that it seems extremely streaky and morale-based.  My star striker has like 40 goals (in all competitions) with 5 matches left in the season, but only a small handful have come in the 2nd half of the season.

In more man management hell, I criticized that same striker for a 5.8 rating performance, and he accused me of "scapegoating" him and now he has a "pre-concern" that I've treated him unfairly.  The usual man management nonsense.

[upthetoon]

9 hours ago, jujigatame said:

My experience with striker scoring is that it seems extremely streaky and morale-based.  My star striker has like 40 goals (in all competitions) with 5 matches left in the season, but only a small handful have come in the 2nd half of the season.

In more man management hell, I criticized that same striker for a 5.8 rating performance, and he accused me of "scapegoating" him and now he has a "pre-concern" that I've treated him unfairly.  The usual man management nonsense.

Actually though my Tammy is on a scoring streak, the rest of the 5 major leagues has no strikers with 20 goals. the highest is 19. French, German, Premier League, Italian & Spain leagues.

and this is after the season has finished. I find it so weird.

[SpS_Zen]

Despite the latest updates, the game still has a lot of bugs/non-sense. The game is decent and can be enjoyable, but you may run into situations than ruin your experience. I just had one of those...

During the half time of a game for the title, i asked my team to do more as they were playing poorly. Players reacted very positively, then i let my ass man (16 motivating)do the specific player talk and he chooses to praise them, making them demotivated and confused for the second half, leading to a loss. My ass man would have done crazy things like that before, i wouldnt let him even talk to the players. But for the title game, he chooses to have the exact opposite talk than the coach. Why is this even possible? IRL, trainer and ass man are in the same room with the players and do the talk. In which world do you imagine a trainer and an ass man telling their players the exact opposite. It makes no sense, especially in a club with no crisis and good atmosphere.

Report all those bugs/non-sense would be a full time job during a few days. And for what? There will probably have no more patch for fm19. And the next fm will have as every year his own bugs/non-sense. This is demoralizing.  

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by SpS_Zen

[Novem9]

19 часов назад, upthetoon сказал:

strikers not scoring this game? Tammy has been on fire the last 11 games..

 

What is your formation? Of course there are possible to score a goals, but question about how it happen?
When people write something like 'My strikers not scoring' it means like 'Its not effective to play in style which I want to play'

Edited March 29, 2019 by Novem9

[optimusprimal82]

[jujigatame]

5 hours ago, Novem9 said:

What is your formation? Of course there are possible to score a goals, but question about how it happen?
When people write something like 'My strikers not scoring' it means like 'Its not effective to play in style which I want to play'

I really don't think most peoples problems with strikers are tactical issues. Like I said I have a star striker who's scores 40 goals in a season, but if he spent the whole season scoring at the pace he's scored at in the 2nd half, he'd only have like a dozen. And I haven't changed anything tactically.

[Novem9]

1 час назад, jujigatame сказал:

I really don't think most peoples problems with strikers are tactical issues. Like I said I have a star striker who's scores 40 goals in a season, but if he spent the whole season scoring at the pace he's scored at in the 2nd half, he'd only have like a dozen. And I haven't changed anything tactically.

Yes, and I mean that some styles like total possession not really working in current ME.

https://content.invisioncic.com/Msigames/monthly_2019_02/ice_video_20190226-130453.webm.1a8e2b4a9bd00e6f9cc1b00c10c9dd4c.webm

For me the simplest way to score goals in FM19 is 442 with direct passes and attacks by wings. (I'm not mention tactics like 3 strikers and other)
But I dont like this style and I play FM for tactical reproduction and not for results only.
But we have attacking mentality more powerful than the rest and limited settings for win.

Score goals and win? No problem. Play in style which I want? That's problem. That's what I meant

Edited March 29, 2019 by Novem9

[priority76]

6 hours ago, optimusprimal82 said:

The 'B' is for Bargain!

[Svenc]

On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 14:17, upthetoon said:

strikers not scoring this game? Tammy has been on fire the last 11 games..

  Reveal hidden contents

 

In the last 11 games he's also averaging above 5 shots per match average -- whereas Prior (used a Sub naturally but still) he barely averaged 3. If you Keep him at that, in-game vs the frustration of actual footie either way, he'll likely Keep scoring at least some (unless all of his shots are suddenly exclusively headers from set pieces or shots from miles out, but as a central Forward that is unlikely even considering that is what the game's Ultra defensive AI tactics can encourage some more of).

 

If that drops, however… Mark my words.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Svenc

[Svenc]

4 hours ago, Novem9 said:

Yes, and I mean that some styles like total possession not really working in current ME.

https://content.invisioncic.com/Msigames/monthly_2019_02/ice_video_20190226-130453.webm.1a8e2b4a9bd00e6f9cc1b00c10c9dd4c.webm

For me the simplest way to score goals in FM19 is 442 with direct passes and attacks by wings. (I'm not mention tactics like 3 strikers and other)
But I dont like this style and I play FM for tactical reproduction and not for results only.
But we have attacking mentality more powerful than the rest and limited settings for win.

Score goals and win? No problem. Play in style which I want? That's problem. That's what I meant

That's true but personally not being a tactical Guru which you never needed to be  (this game is sold to footie fans) I don't understand this style. Teamsport Basics 101, there is neither width nor Depth to defend for the Opposition nor anything. The area the defending Team has to cover is that small they barely have to stretch even if the Forwards would move more intelligently. The way Players behave, I don't know how this couldn't be easily defended most of the time. Ditto how oftenly the AI drop Deep and just Play Ultra compact themselves. [That the AML/AMR positions have a tendency to tuck inside is naturally compounding to this, still].

This would be actually one of the more frequent mistakes that date back I don't know how Long. In particular Players who confuse "dominating stats and shot Counts" equals to "dominating" have Always kept the pitch just as Ultra compact, as it's much harder to drop the ball. The very same Thing though doesn't stretch the Opposition much. So they dominate the run of play, but not the space. Even if shots would still go off, they'd be mostly in no much space (set piece baseed as OP defenderes get a foot into everything) or in crowded Areas in General. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Svenc

[Novem9]

17 минут назад, Svenc сказал:

That's true but personally not being a tactical Guru which you never needed to be  (this game is sold to footie fans) I don't understand this style. Teamsport Basics 101, there is neither width nor Depth to defend for the Opposition nor anything. The area the defending Team has to cover is that small they barely have to stretch. The way Players behave, I don't know how this couldn't be easily defended. [That the AML/AMR positions have a tendency to tuck inside is naturally compounding to this, still].

This would be actually one of the more frequent mistakes that date back I don't know how Long. In particular Players who confuse "dominating stats and shot Counts" equals to "dominating" have Always kept the pitch just as Ultra compact, as it's much harder to drop the ball. The very same Thing though doesn't stretch the Opposition much. So they dominate the run of play, but not the space. Even if shots would still go off, they'd be mostly in no much space (set piece baseed as OP defenderes get a foot into everything) or in crowded Areas in General. 

Well possible it bad answer for manager (even for virtual manager) but you need to ask these guys on the field  I didnt say them play like this. Its classic 41221 with HB, IF and W, no 3 ST formation.
Yes its look narrow, but if numbers 7 and 23 (at least) were active it was much better. I have no idea why 16, 6 and 18 (DM and both CM) so much close to each other. In prev FM even if you use the most narrow settings, they never stay like this

I have video from one of prev ME, the same tactic but different details of moves (And I dont like this ME too)

https://content.invisioncic.com/Msigames/monthly_2019_02/ice_video_20190210-232804.webm.d26c88062c210d781e2a2ce9baccbfa0.webm

 

Or why if I play in short pass, low temp and all my tactic focused on possesion they took decisions like this  (the same pkm as example in prev message)

https://content.invisioncic.com/Msigames/monthly_2019_02/ice_video_20190226-131417.webm.aa8916bb5b869a72495523b5c14a3e82.webm

Edited March 29, 2019 by Novem9

[Svenc]

14 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Well possible it bad answer for manager (even for virtual manager) but you need to ask these guys on the field  I didnt say them play like this. Its classic 41221 with HB, IF and W, no 3 ST formation.
Yes its look narrow, but if numbers 7 and 23 (at least) were active it was much better. I have no idea why 16, 6 and 18 (DM and both CM) so much close to each other. In prev FM even if you use the most narrow settings, they never stay like this

I think the advanced wide Players Always narrowed in front of the Goal. Thus you also couldn't replicate say Pep's Bayern side with his inverted backs, and the width provided by the wingers in front of them as they sticked out wide all the way. Just seen there's actually a thread on that. But that's what this would some result into… If you would kept trying and would notice that it's just not Happening (and rather those Deep sitting AI has it eas-ish to defend most of the time), then you would likely Always struggle to unsettle defenses some. IIRC it's not a "bug" per se, it's just coded that way. Some Things you can do in-game, some you can't… has Always been the case to various Degrees. The engine's limited, the AI is too (Maybe there is a Connection here, as AI managers have Always struggled to cope on that Micro tweaking front...)
 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Svenc

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, Svenc сказал:

I think the advanced wide Players Always narrowed in front of the Goal. Thus you also couldn't replicate say Pep's Bayern side with his inverted backs, and the width provided by the wingers in front of them as they sticked out wide all the way. Just seen there's actually a thread on that. But that's what this would some result into… If you would kept trying and would notice that it's just not Happening (and rather those Deep sitting AI has it eas-ish to defend most of the time), then you would likely Always struggle to unsettle defenses some. IIRC it's not a "bug" per se, it's just coded that way. Some Things you can do in-game, some you can't… has Always been the case to various Degrees. 

Please dont remind me Pep's Bayern. I tried a lot of times reproduce his idea to Alaba switch from CB to WB. Unfortunatelly its not possible by current FM tools  

[Novem9]

5 минут назад, Svenc сказал:

I think the advanced wide Players Always narrowed in front of the Goal. Thus you also couldn't replicate say Pep's Bayern side with his inverted backs, and the width provided by the wingers in front of them as they sticked out wide all the way. Just seen there's actually a thread on that. But that's what this would some result into… If you would kept trying and would notice that it's just not Happening (and rather those Deep sitting AI has it eas-ish to defend most of the time), then you would likely Always struggle to unsettle defenses some. IIRC it's not a "bug" per se, it's just coded that way. Some Things you can do in-game, some you can't… has Always been the case to various Degrees. 

I totally agreed about narrow wingers. In FM19 Beta which was much better in context of tactical reproduction and unit's obedience the same issue was too

It's basic tiki-taka with user roles. 

IRL Prototype

[kingking]

We need different pressing styles and have an option to implement it easier

• man to man press
• zonel press
• inbetween passing lanes  press
• 1-1 press or multiple-1 press

[upthetoon]

2 hours ago, kingking said:

We need different pressing styles and have an option to implement it easier

• man to man press
• zonel press
• inbetween passing lanes  press
• 1-1 press or multiple-1 press

no thanks. not now. I think the game now already have multiple ME problems to deal with and I don't think we should blot more at this point until the current situation is fixed.

I think the only other way they are going to implement your kind of suggestions is to completely revamp the current ME to a next gen ME. current ME is too outdated and limited to implement 21st century football.

[BMNJohn]

On 29/03/2019 at 00:56, SpS_Zen said:

Despite the latest updates, the game still has a lot of bugs/non-sense. The game is decent and can be enjoyable, but you may run into situations than ruin your experience. I just had one of those...

During the half time of a game for the title, i asked my team to do more as they were playing poorly. Players reacted very positively, then i let my ass man (16 motivating)do the specific player talk and he chooses to praise them, making them demotivated and confused for the second half, leading to a loss. My ass man would have done crazy things like that before, i wouldnt let him even talk to the players. But for the title game, he chooses to have the exact opposite talk than the coach. Why is this even possible? IRL, trainer and ass man are in the same room with the players and do the talk. In which world do you imagine a trainer and an ass man telling their players the exact opposite. It makes no sense, especially in a club with no crisis and good atmosphere.

Report all those bugs/non-sense would be a full time job during a few days. And for what? There will probably have no more patch for fm19. And the next fm will have as every year his own bugs/non-sense. This is demoralizing.  

 

It's not really a bug per say, it's just standard behaviour within FM: staff don't have a thinking process, most interactions don't really flow well nor you can really figure out a logical thinking process to justify some of the reactions. It's not unique to FM and affects a lot of AIs, but because FM is so heavy on man management (and apparently still much lighter than real life), it's even more jarring when it happens. As I've mentioned before, promises have that issue as well. Obviously the first thing to remember is that AIs don't really exist: even the best "AIs" are excellent at learning and correcting their mistakes, but they don't actually think. They're essentially very complex flowcharts.

The second thing is that obviously if the AI was any good, you wouldn't win anything in FM, or in most games really: AIs are beating Starcraft pro players as well as pro chessmasters. Even if you didn't improve the tactical decisions, you'd just make the big teams actually use their extensive scouting network to spot every youngsters, stop taking the rep of the player in account so much so that they stop signing all the has-been no savvy human player would sign, loan out every youngster they poach to teams who actually can play them instead of letting them rot in the reserves or on the bench, and it would be just like real life where big clubs stay big bar any catastrophic failure.

Nevertheless, I do feel you when the AI has no remembrance or memory of what happened before, what conversations were had, or cannot explain anything useful. And I think it's more prevalent in the latest releases with the additional staff roles or player interactions: you have data analysts, but they don't truly analyse data: they churn it and throw it at you. It's up to you to analyse the data and make decisions upon it; so much for the usefulness of that staff member. Actually, I think in the latest iterations that the next opposition scout does a better job than a data analyst: gives you potential formation and mindset, something to work on for your match preparation.

There's also when your AssMan makes comments during matches and you wonder if you're watching the same game: it's just default stuff that he has in his database and will say those when a certain threshold is met. For example they'll comment on winning a lot of headers and suggest that you should cross more... except they're unable to see where the headers were won... or that your striker is 5'7"/170cm and that it's a dumb move (same goes with your squad hoofing it to Messi as if he's Peter Crouch). Or when your AssMan is able to create a squad report, but when it comes to advising you which formation to use they do not use the squad depth report they've compiled, defaulting to advising to use their favourite formation and mindset instead.

The AI doesn't feel organic or logical because it isn't: AIs don't truly exist, they're mostly a flowchart. A computer doesn't think. As such, you reach the point where the suspension of disbelief comes crashing. That's hard to deal with and improve, but it's obviously key to making the world of a video game like FM believable.

Edited March 30, 2019 by BMNJohn

[Rashidi]

10 hours ago, Svenc said:

as they sticked out wide all the way.

Strange, I am under the impression that they stay wide during the consolidation phase when he wants the overloads to happen. Like in real life, they create overloads down one specific side freeing up the other wing. You can see from the next image, how our winger makes a move wide...then cuts inside.

Here in my midfield consolidation phase i have the IWB breaking the lines bringing the ball out, We have Mane making a move out wide, he then receives the ball. and proceeds to cut inside, on the opposite flank we have our right winger in space to attack, but we want him wide in this phase of play. He should only narrow when we start to control the zone. This is the fundamental reason why he has his players out wide. They do not stay wide "all the way"

Note: the ball is at the feet of the Winger at this point, most of the images people draw on from real life screenshots, like the one tagged earlier is when the defenders have the ball in their own half.

 

 

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

 

Note: the ball is at the feet of the Winger at this point, most of the images people draw on from real life screenshots, like the one tagged earlier is when the defenders have the ball in their own half.

 

 

Mine (in-game) was too. Which is the Problem naturally against Teams sitting Deep in particular as they drop Deep quickly. In tendency every Possession based positional attack would come to this. The widish attackers on FM Always had that tendency to cut inside in the final third though. That Robben et all under Guardiola would stick out wide even Deep into the Opposition half is something you couldn't replicate. This is a real old Video, but the width in Possession based Systems to stretch I Always tended to provide with a full back, e.g. Alves in this (AFAIR this was without wingers, that is a 4-2-3-1 narrow with 3 AMC, but just to illustrate the width part).
 

 

I can Kind of see though why SI wouldn't make Things more customazible, as it would eventually just lead to other exploits of the AI. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Svenc

[Novem9]

7 часов назад, BMNJohn сказал:

The AI doesn't feel organic or logical because it isn't: AIs don't truly exist, they're mostly a flowchart. A computer doesn't think. As such, you reach the point where the suspension of disbelief comes crashing. That's hard to deal with and improve, but it's obviously key to making the world of a video game like FM believable.

Exactly, AI is decoration only. I remember only one game where AI has the beginnings of an analytical mind - its F.E.A.R. (2006). Or developers just forced AI for good acting, but it looks earnestly. Bots there can improve environment, use ambush in random places and create routes in context of situation.

I read the fantastic book where US Army tried to create bot special corps with collective mind. There was an interesting moment that bots acted just as human (at first glance), but in facts they can't see anything, if it not registred to them system. This momemt illustrates all limitation of AI 'perception', analysis.

In this way I never surprised about issues of ME - there a lot of factors and number of situations  tends to infinity.
But looks like pursuit for realism bad for ME. I mean we still have issues of realism cases, but there a lot of issues in balance case. I guess most customers will prefer balance.

[kingking]

SI Staff members don't even play the game themselves because many of these bugs don't even need to be posted by us, they are easily identified just by playing 1 season or 2

another bug i found is salary restrictions despite great finances.

I'm man city with amazing finances, however my wage salary is capped to low and i struggle to get top players.

Edited March 30, 2019 by kingking

[XaW]

1 hour ago, kingking said:

SI Staff members don't even play the game themselves

I really hope, for your sake, that you don't believe this and that this is hyperbole. If you truly think this, FM is the least of your issues.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, kingking said:

I'm man city with amazing finances, however my wage salary is capped to low and i struggle to get top players.

Every club will have a wage budget regardless of finances. You go wildly over that and it doesn't matter if you have billions in the bank, you'll be restricted with what you can offer players. 

I suspect that's what's happened here, either that or you've failed FFP. 

[Preveza]

12 hours ago, upthetoon said:

no thanks. not now. I think the game now already have multiple ME problems to deal with and I don't think we should blot more at this point until the current situation is fixed. 

I think the only other way they are going to implement your kind of suggestions is to completely revamp the current ME to a next gen ME. current ME is too outdated and limited to implement 21st century football. 

Harsh but its the truth. ME is not good enough to reproduce modern football.

[Overmars]

After flirting with FM16, FM17, and FM18, I always reverted back to my favourite version, FM15. Only recently did I purchase FM19, and I can no longer play FM15. So that's a compliment to the developers for advancing the game so much that I feel I "need" the new features now. The game is indeed improved, and it's very much worth the price of admission.

My specific feedback:

1. Player movement off the ball looks weak.
2. Crosses and long shots generate a lot of goals, to the point where I crave other goal types in games.
3. Customized training is great, but some of the necessary tinkering veers into micromanagement territory. This is still an improvement over prior versions, though. I would like to assign this to the AM, but he leaves far too many sessions empty. Maybe the scheduling logic can be improved so that AI AMs aren't quite so incomplete with their scheduling.
4. Set piece tactics are annoying to create. I like setting corner instructions, but the free kick settings are excessive.
5. AI transfer behaviour is poor. I have yet to start my first season, but Liverpool are in pursuit of Carvajal, which is just plain weird considering they have multiple good (and much cheaper) options at fullback already. I think the AI is still too passive and ignorant of age/value.
6. The contract offer screen and the customization of screens are noticeably improved.
7. The tactics screen is good, and I really like the implementation of the team instructions and boxes. I do think the algorithm used to assign green/red to particular player roles is off. This is especially true when a player is playing a position in which they are accomplished rather than natural. I'd like to see that algorithm adjusted, if only because it's annoying to see red or orange role suitability for a player who is actually really well suited for that role.
8. I don't buy the "mentoring groups" as being realistic. Tutoring was obviously fantasy-land as well, but I don't think the groups better reflect anything. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if it didn't seem like most of the young prospects possessed incredibly low determination. Not all real-life teenagers are lazy.

[CFuller]

2 hours ago, Preveza said:

Harsh but its the truth. ME is not good enough to reproduce modern football.

Are you going to qualify that statement with a proper explanation as to why the ME is "not good enough"? And please don't try to pass off an opinion as "the truth".

[BigV]

1 hour ago, CFuller said:

Are you going to qualify that statement with a proper explanation as to why the ME is "not good enough"? And please don't try to pass off an opinion as "the truth".

I mean there's enough evidence to suggest so within this thread alone from top to current/now. If he has problems then i'm pretty sure he's suggesting the problems are similar if not the same as those stated. Up to the point in this thread the same thing can't be said again and again and pretty sure most if not all of this is looked at as in the bugs/areas to improve from the SI. 

[Preveza]

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

Are you going to qualify that statement with a proper explanation as to why the ME is "not good enough"? And please don't try to pass off an opinion as "the truth".

Why? There are technological limitations AND funding is maybe not there? Second reason is arguable. For example, would SI be able to spend double or triple its money on motion capture for much better and smoother animations? Or will it break their bank?

[CFuller]

1 minute ago, Preveza said:

Why? There are technological limitations AND funding is maybe not there? Second reason is arguable. For example, would SI be able to spend double or triple its money on motion capture for much better and smoother animations? Or will it break their bank?

The Match Engine is not perfect, obviously, but please name another computer game engine that simulates its chosen sport more accurately than FM - if you can.

[jujigatame]

42 minutes ago, CFuller said:

The Match Engine is not perfect, obviously, but please name another computer game engine that simulates its chosen sport more accurately than FM - if you can.

OOTP does, but obviously baseball is much easier to realistically simulate than soccer is.

[themadsheep2001]

8 hours ago, kingking said:

SI Staff members don't even play the game themselves because many of these bugs don't even need to be posted by us, they are easily identified just by playing 1 season or 2

another bug i found is salary restrictions despite great finances.

I'm man city with amazing finances, however my wage salary is capped to low and i struggle to get top players.

This thread has stopped being productive, but stuff like this absolutely needs to be called out as nonsense. Stop it. 

[priority76]

I don't like what happened to kit selection in 19.3.  Teams now seem to play in away kits whenever they play away unless it clashes with opposition home kit.  Rangers vs Celtic and it's not blue vs green/white would never happen.

[Fabregas_04]

7 hours ago, CFuller said:

Are you going to qualify that statement with a proper explanation as to why the ME is "not good enough"? And please don't try to pass off an opinion as "the truth".

Throw ins. Off the top of my head there doesn't even appear to be AI attached. Not good enough.

[upthetoon]

5 hours ago, CFuller said:

The Match Engine is not perfect, obviously, but please name another computer game engine that simulates its chosen sport more accurately than FM - if you can.

With a mentality like yours "no one is better than me now. so I shall stop innovating and start sitting on my laurels", football wouldn't have evolved to what it is today.

A next gen ME should be a priority for SI or we'd be stuck akin to having a nice 21st century car design that comes with a 19th century engine.