Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[nicko]

Apologies if this is in the wrong thread.

Getting the full game tomorrow,  still playing the Demo (long story)

Now... last year I had trouble transferring my Demo save to the main one, soo is there any easy way to do this?

Any help gratefully appreciated.. thank you in advance.

[Alekos]

Forgot to mention that in my above save IFs rarely score but CMs do..End of the season Salah for Liverpool had 7 goals in 32 games and Henderson had 17..Joke right?In my Forest Green save my top goalscorer is my lone striker with 38 goals way ahead of the second scorer in the league and my second scorer is my box to box midfielder ..Same applies to all the other teams.. 

[bleventozturk]

6 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Forgot to mention that in my above save IFs rarely score but CMs do..End of the season Salah for Liverpool had 7 goals in 32 games and Henderson had 17..Joke right?In my Forest Green save my top goalscorer is my lone striker with 38 goals way ahead of the second scorer in the league and my second scorer is my box to box midfielder ..Same applies to all the other teams.. 

Now that part really IS your tactics  

I see a great variety in goal distribution between positions (but not the type of goals). For example in my team, my IF and W are the top goal scorers, followed by my lone striker on support role.

And fyi, there are a lot of people who complained here in the feedback tread saying that their strikers score too few, unlike what you are stating. That is clearly down to tactics imo.

 

[Alekos]

11 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Now that part really IS your tactics  

I see a great variety in goal distribution between positions (but not the type of goals). For example in my team, my IF and W are the top goal scorers, followed by my lone striker on support role.

And fyi, there are a lot of people who complained here in the feedback tread saying that their strikers score too few, unlike what you are stating. That is clearly down to tactics imo.

 

Ok let's say with my tactics there is a problem..What about Liverpool and Salah that I have mentioned which is controlled by the AI?And Liverpool is only one example..I will provide more later on 

[jujigatame]

Player interaction is still total nonsense most of the time.  Player wants me to sell him to Tottenham so he can play continental football.  I tell him "stay and we'll qualify, I'll sell you if we don't" and he refuses because he doesn't think it's realistic that we'll qualify.  Meanwhile we're sitting 3rd in the table with 12 matches left, and the top 7 qualify for European play.  It's been years and these stupid interactions are still completely devoid of reasonable context.

[bleventozturk]

6 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Ok let's say with my tactics there is a problem..What about Liverpool and Salah that I have mentioned which is controlled by the AI?And Liverpool is only one example..I will provide more later on 

In that case it is the tactic that Liverpool uses IN THE GAME, WITH THIS ME that is resulting in that. Does it reflect real life? Of course not. But my point is, that it is perfectly possible in this ME to have your goal scorers from different positions. I can manage Liverpool and have Salah scoring tons of goals. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by bleventozturk

[bleventozturk]

12 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Ok let's say with my tactics there is a problem..What about Liverpool and Salah that I have mentioned which is controlled by the AI?And Liverpool is only one example..I will provide more later on 

Just checked in my game and saw that Salah is indeed not scoring many goals for Liverpool. But it looks like they are using him on the support role at the wing, and they have Origi as lone striker in attack role and Firmino at the AMC spot at an attack duty as well, and those two are scoring most of the goals, as I would expect from this setup.

I just don't think it is reasonable to expect SI to go through the tactical setup of each team in the game and make sure that the roles that will be picked by the AI managers will put their players in a combination that will create a goal distribution close to real life. It is a game. Once you hit the continue button for the first time, everything is new. Just assume that the Liverpool coach decided to use Salah in a different way at that point

 

[bar333]

Another "big game" between the team at the top of the Bundesliga and the team in 3rd, unbeaten in 7 games and in great form - another drab 0-0, again top opposition shamelessly parking the bus like a second division team against peak Barcelona, again nothing but an average of 3 blocked crosses per minute and set pieces, set pieces, some more set pieces and a few more set pieces on top. Did I mention set pieces?

I'm past the point of even caring about whether it's "realistic" or not. I like FM's authenticity, but that particular debate simply doesn't interest me when it comes to this particular issue (never mind the small matter of the people claiming "realism" ignoring the fact that the current ME has next to nothing to do with professional football other than it being 22 men kicking a ball around a pitch). Straight up - if the AI parking the bus so incredibly often doesn't get fixed, FM19 will go down as the least enjoyable FM in history. You might think it's the most realistic, but it will still be the least enjoyable. I just don't get this change from FM18, where the balance was much better.

It should be toned down as long as the ME's issues persist at the very least, considering movement and central play issues right now are making it virtually impossible to unlock a parked bus from open play. If and when those issues are fixed it can be looked at again. As of right now these are 2 separate issues massively exacerbating each other.

Edited December 27, 2018 by bar333

[ajw10]

51 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Now that part really IS your tactics  

I see a great variety in goal distribution between positions (but not the type of goals). For example in my team, my IF and W are the top goal scorers, followed by my lone striker on support role.

And fyi, there are a lot of people who complained here in the feedback tread saying that their strikers score too few, unlike what you are stating. That is clearly down to tactics imo.

 

What about this?

[rain94]

The AI does give up a ton of long distance goals. I don't think they know how to deal with it. I can mitigate it by playing one of the CB's as a stopper and/or marking and closing down opposition with good Long Shot Attribute with a D-MID. The amount of long distance goals that my team concedes appears to be realistic after 2 seasons. I score a ton and it does make the game a tad too easy.

Edited December 27, 2018 by rain94

[bleventozturk]

They are definitely exacerbating each other, you are right bar333. When I glance through AI vs AI matches, sometimes I run into a match with some really beautiful through balls and much better central play, which shows me that it is possible to see that in this ME. But it is rare, and only happens when those AI teams both think they can beat the other, and don't defend  too deep. So, maybe that's where SI needs  to make the tweak and make teams defend less deep in general. 

[themadsheep2001]

23 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Just checked in my game and saw that Salah is indeed not scoring many goals for Liverpool. But it looks like they are using him on the support role at the wing, and they have Origi as lone striker in attack role and Firmino at the AMC spot at an attack duty as well, and those two are scoring most of the goals, as I would expect from this setup.

I just don't think it is reasonable to expect SI to go through the tactical setup of each team in the game and make sure that the roles that will be picked by the AI managers will put their players in a combination that will create a goal distribution close to real life. It is a game. Once you hit the continue button for the first time, everything is new. Just assume that the Liverpool coach decided to use Salah in a different way at that point

 

Indeed , there's an argument in that one can always look to keep improving the AI, which is absolutely right. But as long as the they aren't using a player outright wrongly, it shouldn't be an issue. If their Fc/Amc duo is carving things up and their wide player being used a different role is still effective without necessarily being a goal scorer, that's not actually an issue. Being used differently isn't necessarily the same as being used wrongly. 

[bleventozturk]

4 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

What about this?

You did not read my post carefully. I said the distribution of goals between the positions depends on the tactic, not the type of goals. In my earlier post I specifically said that there is a problem with the type of goals.

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

They are definitely exacerbating each other, you are right bar333. When I glance through AI vs AI matches, sometimes I run into a match with some really beautiful through balls and much better central play, which shows me that it is possible to see that in this ME. But it is rare, and only happens when those AI teams both think they can beat the other, and don't defend  too deep. So, maybe that's where SI needs  to make the tweak and make teams defend less deep in general. 

I absolutely wouldn't touch defending for the most part. About time people had to work hard to break teams down. Teams didn't deny enough space in the past. What needs a slight tweak is some of the movement and attacking choices, and allow the AI to be a bit more aggressive with mentality at times 

[bleventozturk]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I absolutely wouldn't touch defending for the most part. About time people had to work hard to break teams down. Teams didn't deny enough space in the past. What needs a slight tweak is some of the movement and attacking choices, and allow the AI to be a bit more aggressive with mentality at times 

That may be the better approach actually, I don't know.  But I totally agree with your second sentence. I really hope that SI will figure it out without making it easy to break down AI defenses.

[bleventozturk]

When I look at the goals that are scored from just outside the penalty box (which is one of the two most common types of goals), I see a problem with defenders sitting too deep and not bothering picking up the guy who is about to take a shot. Makes it too easy to score those. Like another poster said, human manager can reduce this by using one CB as stopper. But without doing that, one of the CB's should see the threat and try to close down the opponent before he can take a wide open shot. This can also mean hitting two birds with one stone, in that the CB who steps up will have to leave the striker which will give the attacker the option to play a through ball.

[kandersson]

18 minutes ago, bar333 said:

Another "big game" between the team at the top of the Bundesliga and the team in 3rd, unbeaten in 7 games and in great form - another drab 0-0, again top opposition shamelessly parking the bus like a second division team against peak Barcelona, again nothing but an average of 3 blocked crosses per minute and set pieces, set pieces, some more set pieces and a few more set pieces on top. Did I mention set pieces?

I'm past the point of even caring about whether it's "realistic" or not. I like FM's authenticity, but that particular debate simply doesn't interest me when it comes to this particular issue (never mind the small matter of the people claiming "realism" ignoring the fact that the current ME has next to nothing to do with professional football other than it being 22 men kicking a ball around a pitch). Straight up - if the AI parking the bus so incredibly often doesn't get fixed, FM19 will go down as the least enjoyable FM in history. You might think it's the most realistic, but it will still be the least enjoyable. I just don't get this change from FM18, where the balance was much better.

It should be toned down as long as the ME's issues persist at the very least, considering movement and central play issues right now are making it virtually impossible to unlock a parked bus from open play. If and when those issues are fixed it can be looked at again. As of right now these are 2 separate issues massively exacerbating each other.

AI going very defensive very quick in some leagues often gets out of control and coupled with aforementioned striker movement issue makes for a very dull match experience in many cases. In Brazil as a second division club I often faced extremely defensive Serie A sides in the national cup (that I won), getting 20+ shots and 20+ corners against 2 or 3 from opponents like Vasco or Flamengo. It's not really about 'easy' vs 'hard' (I've had more immediate success in FM19 than in any other edition), this was never the issue. It's both not realistic and not entertaining facing reputable sides that regularly leave 7-8 men behind the ball when attacking and this seems to happen very often, very early and very quick.

[baris28]

I like many niche wargames  because of their smaller scale but attention to detail such as even AI even they are mostly played by pbem. 

 

But in this game may be better to simulate top leagues first then go to lower league football and then rest of the world database. If engine should not be priority and difficult to be programmed than AI should be for the top teams. Yet I'm not convinced most of the problems will be solved by player vs player playing.

Edited December 27, 2018 by baris28

[Dagenham_Dave]

5 hours ago, Alekos said:

 it is more than obvious there is a problem with the ME concerning long range shots..That's why we have so high scores in every league.

Latest round of scores in my league, and the league table showing total goals scored. Don't assume your save is indicative of everyone else's. 

 

[Etebaer]

Thx for fixing the Hoop (Middle) Socks.

[jujigatame]

Something is wonky with finishing, it seems almost too easy to score long-range and too hard to score close-range.

Has anyone done a study of 1-on-1 finishing rates in the game?  It seems to be as little as 5-10%.  Strikers through on goal almost always pound it directly into the keeper's chest.  Meanwhile they're capable of firing off amazing laser beam shots from the edges of the box.

[Svenc]

Still lacking proper detailed playing experience. But there are Reports About (defend Duty) central Players pushing too far up the pitch. Realistically, some "Presets" should have some of those absolutely overwritten / locked anyway, but that's besides the Point. I've personally seen that some when the centre backs are allowed to push Forward, which is when an Opposition has ist Forwards dropping into ist own half some. If the cbs push up, the midfield strata in front of them naturally needs to push up likewise. But there are Reports of anchor men pushing all up into the final third despite the centre backs still cowering in the own half, covering an Opposition Forward that didn't track back. 

The Thing is that as soon as the central midfield strata pushes all up, it would only make it easier for teams with a low block. The entire purose of the low block is compressing the space in your final third. Pushing all your Players up completely Plays into such team's Hands. Realistically, it would (and should) Always lead to added instances where the Opposition gets another foot into the open play moves. Whether that results into a Player forced to shoot from distance, into a foul leading to a free kick, a tackle/deflection leading to a throw or Corner -- or what have you. Additionally, if all central Players push up, there are no outlets for back passes anymore. Every time the ball is played back, that naturally Forces the Opposition to push up again. Space between the lines open up. If that can't happen much, ...

Btw, sites such as FMBase as well as all the communities dominated by download tactics etc. tend to be dominated by such tactics every year (or at least, they are very common). This also goes for your own download sections, SI, really not sure why they are still supported without a FAQ. This has prior also lead to the myth that "Parking bus AI was OP" -- at least in parts. The other part  of the actual truth is that defensive AI tends to plug the defensive holes exploited by the more popular uploaders every year,, which shouold be no surprise -- the more Players you Keep back the less holes are there to exploit. 

2 hours ago, jujigatame said:

Something is wonky with finishing, it seems almost too easy to score long-range and too hard to score close-range.

Has anyone done a study of 1-on-1 finishing rates in the game?  It seems to be as little as 5-10%.  Strikers through on goal almost always pound it directly into the keeper's chest.  Meanwhile they're capable of firing off amazing laser beam shots from the edges of the box.

The key may be the Definition of the term "1-on-1", also if you want to narrow down an issue. I've forced situations in which the Forwards are through on Goal multiple times a match, by nuking one team's defense (2nd part of this post) -< link. However those are certainly very very different Scenarios than you tend to face against a rather defensive Team parking Deep (in particular if the assist is a central through ball giving the Forward no angle and no much time to work with....)

Vice versa may go for investigating the the Long Shots. The Reports seem to hint at that there are tactical factors also at Play (also in Terms of the AI, which all Plays different formations, etc...) who seem to lead to less or more Goals from range. Simply put, a shot just outside the Penalty area, centrally in frontn of Goal, should be a far easier affair than say one from actually yards out and at worse angles. In particular if the Player for some reason tends to Pop up in Yards of space, unmarked…. Long shot ain't Long shot, and 1-on1 ain't 1-on-1.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Svenc

[andu1]

It seems for me it's mandatory to use the TI shoot on sight because  The strikers almost never score one on ones. 

[westy8chimp]

56 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Vice versa may go for investigating the the Long Shots. The Reports seem to hint at that there are tactical factors also at Play

Tactics will only majorly modify the sample size I. E. Number of long shots... But very small affect on the ration of long range shot to long range goal.

In FM 18 long shots were very poor... Using the same players and tactics in FM19 results in more goals

In fact put exactly the same save from the first public release into the newest public release and the number of goals from long shots massively increases (so that alone can rule out tactics, other than being a modifier for each individual save) 

It seems more a simple case of an over adjustment in terms of tweaking the success rate of long shots. Which did need tweaking fwiw

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

Tactics will only majorly modify the sample size I. E. Number of long shots...

Generally, this is true if you look at the game world globally, as there are ranges of AI approaches at play. Things tend to average out. If numbers are too high / low on average, check. However, from a players perspective -- and an individual Team in general -- it's not that simple. Tactics on both Ends majorly influnces the type of shots, not merely sample sizes. In particular on the player's experience end, as human tactics all tend to be a bit more creative than AI ones. As a human player in particular, you could focus on a  particular type of shot over and over (even if you wouldn't realize). Simply put, same as with any ME issue, individual sides will suffer more or less off it, as some shots tend to be affected more by it, some less so. 

That's my experience, also back then from when a specific type of one on one was also tweaked. This tweaking from Memory didn't at all purely relate to the finishing however, but also the keeper behavior and the defending. Basically, this type occured too ofently due to the centre backs Splitting for central through balls, and were saved too oftenly as there was acknoewledged issue with the keeper reach. If you would focus on this type over and over rather than also angled through balls (and you could), you could only come out frustrated. However, in general, seen over the game world this all rings true. What I was meant to say wasn't that Long shots are fine. I merely hope they are still looking at Things in more detailed ways than going "Long shots are OP, 1-1 underpowered"). But I was also saying that from that experience, you seem to have more of a Chance being listened to if you can narrow things down a bit more detailed as hopefully shot doesn't tend to equal shot. And it were a poor ME if it would. Being one of the Chosen few who at all on Occasion seems to try to frustrate attacking Opposition, I hope Long shots aren't overpowered. That would mean I would eventually crack every single game. (And in General, it seems a miracle that players still report Matches of the 30 shots no Goal ilk at all ).

Edited December 28, 2018 by Svenc

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, andu1 said:

It seems for me it's mandatory to use the TI shoot on sight because  The strikers almost never score one on ones. 

You really have to back that up. At the moment, I convert 33/39 big chances I get in a game. Whether one wants to debate the accuracy of ccc, its the only real measure we have in the game. Granted a bit more forward and central movement might be good, but against stacked defenses...it should be very hard. You have to have skill at the game to identify which areas of the pitch to exploit, whether its a result of a yellow card, a knock, poor performance, or just a tactical weakness in the system.

Mind you I have also tried exploiting long shots to do it consistently, however its easier said than done.

.

 

[bar333]

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

Still lacking proper detailed playing experience. But there are Reports About (defend Duty) central Players pushing too far up the pitch. Realistically, some "Presets" should have some of those absolutely overwritten / locked anyway, but that's besides the Point. I've personally seen that some when the centre backs are allowed to push Forward, which is when an Opposition has ist Forwards dropping into ist own half some. If the cbs push up, the midfield strata in front of them naturally needs to push up likewise. But there are Reports of anchor men pushing all up into the final third despite the centre backs still cowering in the own half, covering an Opposition Forward that didn't track back. 

The Thing is that as soon as the central midfield strata pushes all up, it would only make it easier for teams with a low block. The entire purose of the low block is compressing the space in your final third. Pushing all your Players up completely Plays into such team's Hands. Realistically, it would (and should) Always lead to added instances where the Opposition gets another foot into the open play moves. Whether that results into a Player forced to shoot from distance, into a foul leading to a free kick, a tackle/deflection leading to a throw or Corner -- or what have you. Additionally, if all central Players push up, there are no outlets for back passes anymore. Every time the ball is played back, that naturally Forces the Opposition to push up again. Space between the lines open up. If that can't happen much, ...

Btw, sites such as FMBase as well as all the communities dominated by download tactics etc. tend to be dominated by such tactics every year (or at least, they are very common). This also goes for your own download sections, SI, really not sure why they are still supported without a FAQ. This has prior also lead to the myth that "Parking bus AI was OP" -- at least in parts. The other part  of the actual truth is that defensive AI tends to plug the defensive holes exploited by the more popular uploaders every year,, which shouold be no surprise -- the more Players you Keep back the less holes are there to exploit. 

The key may be the Definition of the term "1-on-1", also if you want to narrow down an issue. I've forced situations in which the Forwards are through on Goal multiple times a match, by nuking one team's defense (2nd part of this post) -< link. However those are certainly very very different Scenarios than you tend to face against a rather defensive Team parking Deep (in particular if the assist is a central through ball giving the Forward no angle and no much time to work with....)

Vice versa may go for investigating the the Long Shots. The Reports seem to hint at that there are tactical factors also at Play (also in Terms of the AI, which all Plays different formations, etc...) who seem to lead to less or more Goals from range. Simply put, a shot just outside the Penalty area, centrally in frontn of Goal, should be a far easier affair than say one from actually yards out and at worse angles. In particular if the Player for some reason tends to Pop up in Yards of space, unmarked…. Long shot ain't Long shot, and 1-on1 ain't 1-on-1.

Your assumption in every post that complaints about the ME and game are all by people who use downloaded tactics is getting old. 

I haven't downloaded a tactic since 2010. I have 2 attack duties in my team, with a lower LoE, standard dline, no counter pressing. My tactic is very far from the downloaded tactics with tons of attack duties, aggressive defending etc. 

And I can tell you straight up - breaking a parked bus is virtually impossible right now. You're relying on either set pieces or errors like missed interceptions etc. 

[Mr U Rosler]

All this thread really proves is that once you start a game and progress 1 day everyone's save evolves into an entirely different experience, some see low scoring trends with defensive approaches, others report high scoring, Salah scores loads in someones save, few in someone else's, there are an infinite number of possibilities and outcomes as we step into the unknown. This is a strength of the game, not a weakness.

The tendency on here is for people to assume everyone is having the same experience they are when nothing could be further from the truth.

From my personal experiences, I think this is the best ME i've seen, yes if you allow space on the edge of your box by playing without a holding midfielder or by allowing your Centre Backs to hold position, you encourage long shots and can 'rightly' be punished. That's a tactical issue.

Pep probably feels that long shots are OP in real life at the moment  

 

  

[themadsheep2001]

37 minutes ago, bar333 said:

Your assumption in every post that complaints about the ME and game are all by people who use downloaded tactics is getting old. 

I haven't downloaded a tactic since 2010. I have 2 attack duties in my team, with a lower LoE, standard dline, no counter pressing. My tactic is very far from the downloaded tactics with tons of attack duties, aggressive defending etc. 

And I can tell you straight up - breaking a parked bus is virtually impossible right now. You're relying on either set pieces or errors like missed interceptions etc. 

It's not impossible at all. 

Here's a question: how are you trying to break down a deep defence? Because playing as United, basically every defence is deep against me. And I sit (last time I checked) top of the table, without an over reliance on set pieces

If it's impossible then no one should able to do it. And yet people are. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, Mr U Rosler said:

All this thread really proves is that once you start a game and progress 1 day everyone's save evolves into an entirely different experience, some see low scoring trends with defensive approaches, others report high scoring, Salah scores loads in someones save, few in someone else's, there are an infinite number of possibilities and outcomes as we step into the unknown. This is a strength of the game, not a weakness.

The tendency on here is for people to assume everyone is having the same experience they are when nothing could be further from the truth.

From my personal experiences, I think this is the best ME i've seen, yes if you allow space on the edge of your box by playing without a holding midfielder or by allowing your Centre Backs to hold position, you encourage long shots and can 'rightly' be punished. That's a tactical issue.

Pep probably feels that long shots are OP in real life at the moment  

 

  

Yeah. I don't concede long range goals. Because I have no intention of letting anyone control the space in front of my goal. Not just because of long shots, but because ultimately that's the most dangerous space on the pitch. And if they tweak forward movement/passes more, people are going to get a lot more opened up than they are now if they are suffering long shots. 

AI wise, we should be making sure they are making reasonable enough attempted to defend that space too. 

The one thing I will say is, has anyone been systematically tracking long shot goals and comparing them to real life stats. It's going to vary somewhat due different abilities of teams to take and defend them. But that would be an interesting start. Once I'm back off holiday I might take a look. 

For anyone who feels they are over suffering from long shots, I'd be genuinely interested in watching some of the Pkms. 

[rdbayly]

Perhaps a positive way forward would be for those who are reporting no issues with goals from distance or a lack of movement from strikers to post examples of their systems / thought processes? The tactics forum is awash with contradiction, which adds more layers of confusion to users who are frustrated with their experience.

I've never struggled so much with a version of the game than this year. There is no other game in existence that I have put 500 hours into and still be this incompetent at getting out of it what I'm seeking. I can win fairly easily; but aesthetically, it's disgusting.

[darthlemon]

I'm curious - what tactic should I employ to stop players scoring 3 free kicks in one game against me? 

 

 

[themadsheep2001]

28 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

Perhaps a positive way forward would be for those who are reporting no issues with goals from distance or a lack of movement from strikers to post examples of their systems / thought processes? The tactics forum is awash with contradiction, which adds more layers of confusion to users who are frustrated with their experience.

I've never struggled so much with a version of the game than this year. There is no other game in existence that I have put 500 hours into and still be this incompetent at getting out of it what I'm seeking. I can win fairly easily; but aesthetically, it's disgusting.

@Rashidi has whole videos and segments on YouTube doing this already. 

[rdbayly]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

@Rashidi has whole videos and segments on YouTube doing this already. 

I watched every minute of them and repeatedly tried to implement their principles. 

[westy8chimp]

50 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

For anyone who feels they are over suffering from long shots, I'd be genuinely interested in watching some of the Pkms. 

But I think the intent there would be to say tactically 'if you had a hb or DM or bwm and high pressing you could stop the shot'... 

 

50 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I don't concede long range goals. Because I have no intention of letting anyone control the space in front of my goal. Not just because of long shots, but because ultimately that's the most dangerous space on the pitch

I agree there are ways to prevent them. But do we all want to play the same way? More importantly...Should we have to?

 

A lot of teams IRL do defend deep in banks of 4 and not press urgently to allow the opponents to go back out wide or take a long shot... Because the odds of scoring are low. 

But to my point.. Regardless of tactic the effectiveness has changed. I was Tranmere employing a low block 442very successfully (perhaps overly effective) when the latest release came live, I'm conceding long shots far too much. I'd expect to concede some... Because as I say, I am conceding that space on purpose.. But not at 1 per game (often 2-3 in one match) 

[themadsheep2001]

7 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

But I think the intent there would be to say tactically 'if you had a hb or DM or bwm and high pressing you could stop the shot'... 

 

I agree there are ways to prevent them. But do we all want to play the same way? More importantly...Should we have to?

 

A lot of teams IRL do defend deep in banks of 4 and not press urgently to allow the opponents to go back out wide or take a long shot... Because the odds of scoring are low. 

But to my point.. Regardless of tactic the effectiveness has changed. I was Tranmere employing a low block 442very successfully (perhaps overly effective) when the latest release came live, I'm conceding long shots far too much. I'd expect to concede some... Because as I say, I am conceding that space on purpose.. But not at 1 per game (often 2-3 in one match) 

The space in front of goal will always be the most dangerous. How you counter that is what varies. I deny the space because I play a high line. I know Rashidi in some uses a low line. Others use a CB Stopper. Others have a powerful DM. I don't know if long shots are overpowered in this version, I don't think anyone properly looked yet. But I do know there desperately underpowered in FM18 and that it was was too easy to ignore defending that space 

[themadsheep2001]

In fact @westy8chimp given that were still looking for some offensive tweaks, I'd argue the space will be even more dangerous in future should SI Implement the changes they are hoping for. Which it should be. 

[westy8chimp]

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

In fact @westy8chimp given that were still looking for some offensive tweaks, I'd argue the space will be even more dangerous in future should SI Implement the changes they are hoping for. Which it should be. 

But it shouldnt be lethal to allow a shot from 25 yards... Yes the space in the '10' area should be dangerous... But that's where we want more movement and it should be dangerous because of the threat of a good pass/through ball... General attacking control. Managers like Pep are furious if their midfielder constantly shoot from outside the box...its low percentage play often resulting in turnover. That's why I say I'm purposely allowing the long shot...my defence is covering the passing lane, or cramming to the box to defend the cross... I should be fairly content for the opponent to result to long shots. 

 

I agree the tracking etc needs to be done. I also agree as I stated earlier that long shots were severely underpowered in fm18

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, westy8chimp said:

But it shouldnt be lethal to allow a shot from 25 yards... Yes the space in the '10' area should be dangerous... But that's where we want more movement and it should be dangerous because of the threat of a good pass/through ball... General attacking control. Managers like Pep are furious if their midfielder constantly shoot from outside the box...its low percentage play often resulting in turnover. That's why I say I'm purposely allowing the long shot...my defence is covering the passing lane, or cramming to the box to defend the cross... I should be fairly content for the opponent to result to long shots. 

 

I agree the tracking etc needs to be done. I also agree as I stated earlier that long shots were severely underpowered in fm18

It should be. The only thing that changes in the 10 area is the decision: shoot/pass/dribble. Leaving someone time and space to pick spot from range should be dangerous. 

You can manufacture good long shot opportunities as opposed to hit and hope. Not all (long) shots are equal. 

You mention pep. But I could counter that with Klopp. Who is relatively happy to let his team fly. Shaqiri did for United and Mourinho by doing so. 

[_PeteG_]

19 hours ago, nicko said:

Apologies if this is in the wrong thread.

Getting the full game tomorrow,  still playing the Demo (long story)

Now... last year I had trouble transferring my Demo save to the main one, soo is there any easy way to do this?

Any help gratefully appreciated.. thank you in advance.

I did this yesterday. Just install fm 19. When you load game, browse to the same location but in the demo folder, to get your game. Then save it in the usual folder. 

[BadanieLuck]

It's very easy to see how big of an issue long shots are. Just look at this..

A breakdown of the goals I scored from the last 50 games. 113 goals scored in total, 35 outside of the box making it a staggering 31% of all the goals I scored. 31(!). Do I exploit it specifically? Let's check the last three AI teams I played against as it's a good batch of data (top teams, bottom teams, different leagues etc).

Besiktas (1st in turkish league; last 20 matches; 34 goals; 7 OoTB) ) = 21%

 

Nantes (20th in French league; last 20 matches; 26 goals; 8 ootb) = 31%

Lille (5th in French league; last 20 matches; 30 goals; 9 ootb) = 30%

 

I didn't specifically pick these teams. These are literally the last 3 teams I played against and the results are pretty staggering. 30%(!).
Lets compare that to real football:

ManCity 17/18: 106 goals; 13 ootb; = 12%
Arsenal 17/18: 74 goals; 7 ootb; = 9%
Leicester City 17/18: 56 goals; 7 ootb; = 13%
West Brom 17/18: 31 goals; 2 ootb; = 6%
(taken from the official EPL homepage)

This is a major flaw with the ME that needs fixing. Simply nerfing long shots, wouldn't solve this, otherwise we end up with a lot of 0-0.

[roger_rs]

Ok guys so what do we have here? Long shots, set pieces and crosses to the far post bonanza. Anyone has figured a way to take advantage of this in a non direct way so to speak? As literally telling the players to shoot and cross more simply won't cut it.

 

[bar333]

Anyone else finding regens attribute spreads to be an issue? I'm in 2025 now and as the game is starting to be dominated by regens it's becoming more and more difficult to find players for a lot of roles because regens just never start out with the right attribute spreads for them.

For example full backs... 9 out of 10 decent regen fullbacks I've seen are purely defensive players. Crossing, dribbling, off the ball, technique are always poor. Makes it difficult to find players if you play with wing backs or any system that expects the fullback to do something with the ball. 

Centre backs - BPD's are virtually nonexistent. Most CB's I see have horrible technique, passing, vision etc.

Wide players - tons of natural wingers, virtually no natural inside forwards and\or wide playmakers. 

Strikers - lots of world class pacey advanced forward types, no halfway decent DLF's etc. Again, passing, technique, vision almost always very meh.

This is further made worse by the new training system where you can no longer individually train crossing, dribbling and other attributes that regens often suck at. 

[cocoadavid]

2 hours ago, rdbayly said:

Perhaps a positive way forward would be for those who are reporting no issues with goals from distance or a lack of movement from strikers to post examples of their systems / thought processes? The tactics forum is awash with contradiction, which adds more layers of confusion to users who are frustrated with their experience.

I've never struggled so much with a version of the game than this year. There is no other game in existence that I have put 500 hours into and still be this incompetent at getting out of it what I'm seeking. I can win fairly easily; but aesthetically, it's disgusting.

As you can see below, in my current save I haven't conceded any goals from distance yet, and the amount of goals my team scored from distance is not that exaggerated compared to the total amount of goals scored. Altough I agree that long shots may need a tiny bit of tuning. The CCC conversion ratio is also good.

I play 4-1-4-1, my striker and my wingers are my main goalscorers.  Below you can see my initial system:



PIs:
WBa right: stay wider
WBs left: sit narrower, cross more often
DLPs: more direct passing
CMa: Roam from position, mark tighter, tackle harder
IWa left: stay wider, cross more often (despite the role being an Inverted Winger, I often play a left footed player here)

What worked for me against sides that defend deep and narrow:
I play slightly more aggressively, I switch from balanced to positive mentality and max out the defensive line, line of engagement and urgency. This way there is more chance to force the opposition to a mistake. I also set some roles to be more aggressive, Sweeper keeper to support duty, right back to CWBa, and maybe CMa to Mezzala. Against defensive sides I prefer to choose more creative players in midfield positions and a robust striker. In seria A a lot of teams play defensively against me.

Here are some results to prove that this works:

 

PS: It took me a while to get familiar with the current match engine, a lot of hours of trial and error have gone into creating systems that are not only successful, but also represent the way I want my team to play. I hope I could help.

Edited December 28, 2018 by cocoadavid

[Preveza]

19 hours ago, jujigatame said:

Player interaction is still total nonsense most of the time.  Player wants me to sell him to Tottenham so he can play continental football.  I tell him "stay and we'll qualify, I'll sell you if we don't" and he refuses because he doesn't think it's realistic that we'll qualify.  Meanwhile we're sitting 3rd in the table with 12 matches left, and the top 7 qualify for European play.  It's been years and these stupid interactions are still completely devoid of reasonable context.

this is one of my pet hates. lack of context. lack of attention to detail shown once again. ive provided evidence of this also. 

[Piperita]

Yeah, I had fun with interactions, too. 

One old club veteran asked for a move after two injuries sidelined him and his replacement played well. I was unable to convince him to stay and ultimately I agreed to let him go. 

When I got offers, I naturally accepted and he was happy in his promise tab. When he left I wanted to wish him farewell and good luck. His reaction? How dare I after driving him out of the team? He wanted to stay but I made the move a necessity.

[bar333]

Had a lot of similar situations. Players asking to leave because I refused to give them a pay rise then signing for a different club on a smaller wage, other nonsense... it's all part of parcel of FM for the last couple of years. Right now I have a player whom I managed to convince to stay at the club rather than join Man City by giving him a big pay rise, not 4 months later there's interest in him again and again he has the pre concern of whether he should be moving to a bigger club. The club he's most interested in joining? Monaco, who have a lower reputation than me and are much less successful overall. So he both ignored what just happened 4 months earlier and his pre concern makes no sense.

It's all a part of what I've been saying this past year about the new "cycle" of FM. New features go in and are rarely touched upon and polished again, instead the effort is spent on the new headline features. Player interactions, dynamics, the social feed etc have all had the same issues for years, shipped unchanged with the game year in year out. Fully expect FM20 to ship with the exact same issues with the new training system, for instance.

Edited December 28, 2018 by bar333

[stevemc]

I've got Paul Pogba playing as a DLP (S) and he's bagged 14 goals in 17 appearances (I'm only half way through the season too), of which I've noted 9 have come from outside the box - feels like that shouldn't be happening this often?

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by stevemc

[nicko]

5 hours ago, _PeteG_ said:

I did this yesterday. Just install fm 19. When you load game, browse to the same location but in the demo folder, to get your game. Then save it in the usual folder. 

Cheers fella.

[Eoow]

Hello all managers!

I have been playing all editions of this lovely game on a continuous basis. Year after year. Update after update. Defeat after defeat. What made me continue playing the game was the realistic gameplay reflecting the real football environment. During the many years I have been playing Football Manager, I have not noticed any major unrealistic gameplays that gave me the feeling that I want stop playing the game. There have always been a way out of a bad streak, top strikers not scoring, midfielders not passing the ball correctly, etc.  After playing Football Manager 2019 for only one week, I got this feeling for the first time – and I wonder what is wrong with this year's edition? I feel like that my instructions does not matter.

After my first match, I got the feeling that something is wrong. Match highlights constantly show me the exact same outcome:

• Defenders unrealistic blocks crosses from wingers resulting in another corner.
• Strikers are somehow not involved in matches anymore.
• Obvious passes such as through balls never happens.
• Incredibly high possession and shot at goal with only one goal scored – from a corner kick.
• Nice pass! Oh wait. Offside, offside, offside, offside, offside, offside, offside.

These are just some of the reasons why I very unfortunately have to pause Football Manager 2019. I have done some research as I was really frustrated about match highlights just showing crosses getting blocked, no play throughs to strikers and offside every time a player tries to make a pass. It is very obvious that that I am clearly not the only one with these problems:

• What happened to my strikers? 
• I give up
• Offsides bugged?
• No passes, just dribbling
• Through Balls
• Unrealistic passive offsides
• Awful shots to goals ratios (way too many off target shots)
• Crosses and Number of Corners
• Offsides are Broken in FM 2019
• Pass? Shot! (pkm including)
• Wide players with space to get a cross in dwell on ball
• Can't score goals
• A message to SI devs if you can be bothered A message to SI devs if you can be bothered
• What about crosses?
• Help me through balls

These are posts from several Football Manager communities indicating that managers all over the world are frustrated about this year's version. It does simply not reflect reality like previous games – and for me, it is simply not to live – or play – with as it is so obvious wrong. You even see well-known tactic creators playing with inverted wingers and fullbacks to center the play in order to win from decent plays that are not somehow random or blocked from crosses. This is not how Football Manager should be played.

You might argue that the tactic is not correctly suited for the specific match, but these problems occur every single match, and the match highlights are just the same over and over again. I am very sad to pause Football Manager 2019 already and it got me – for the first time ever – to start a discussion and ask the question: What is wrong with Football Manager 2019?

Edited December 28, 2018 by Eoow