Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[ajw10]

20 hours ago, ajw10 said:

So things that I've noticed since the last update

• Way too many long shots resulting in a goal
• Too many goals either after a team has scored or at the very start of the second half
• Defenders don't mark attackers at the far post which means crossing is massively OP
• Throw in takers seem to throw aimlessly 
• Attacking players movement is horrendous
• Defensive headers tend to result in possession being given away
• Wingers get booked a lot and I've found that they can get two yellows before anyone else gets booked
• A spike in pens awarded
• Sitters missed frequently
• More woodwork hits than usual for an FM game
• 1V1's not an effective way to score a goal

Now some of these might not even be bugs, but this seems to be an awful lot of issues for a game that's been out for what, well over a month? This is made even more frustrating by the fact that I had hardly any of these issues before the latest update.

 

 

So in my last two games I have seen a ridiculous 13 goals, 1 which was a penalty and 6 of which were from long range. I've seen multiple throws in going to the opposition and a load of 1v1s missed. These 1v1's dont come from good movement (strikers just don't move when midfielders have the ball) they come from abysmal defending either from crosses or long punts up the pitch. Oh and my team conceded 14 seconds into the second half. 

[bleventozturk]

1 hour ago, robot_skeleton said:

I know where you're coming from, and I actually would have agreed with you a few weeks ago. But the more matches I have time to watch now thanks to the festive period the more I see that it is very much like that in real life. It is quite difficult to beat the defender on the wing even if you have space - and most of the time wingers don't have that, not to mention to cross accurately. It's the same for shooting against a deep defense. Just an extreme example, Man City vs Crystal Palace or the Wolves vs Liverpool matches. How many times did Mané, Sané and Zaha have seemingly enough time to beat their men or shoot accurately and it went out to a cross or made the wrong decision. I'm not saying you're wrong, and surely the ME could be improved, but I felt the same as you do now and I kind of see things in a different perspective now when I started to directly watch these situations in real life.

Agreed. I for one am enjoying the first ME where you can actually defend against a much better team and hope for a 0-0. It may not be fun for most gamers to watch, but it is more realistic. A little more striker movement, and a little more attempts through the center of the field, and a little less accuracy on long shots and free-kicks, and it will be a great ME.

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by bleventozturk

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, bleventozturk said:

Agreed. I for one am enjoying the first ME where you can actually defend against a much better team and hope for a 0-0. It may not be fun for most gamers to watch, but it is more realistic. A little more striker movement, and a little more attempts through the center of the field, and a little less accuracy on long shots and free-kicks, and it will be a great ME. 

 

I think it's because I always play on comprehensive, but I really enjoy the ME. It's got its areas to work on, but it's my favourite ME for a long time, arguably since FM10, and certainly the best ME I've played. Just hope they don't overdo the bits you mention. Needs a little tweak in each direction 

[Gegenklaus]

47 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think it's because I always play on comprehensive, but I really enjoy the ME. It's got its areas to work on, but it's my favourite ME for a long time, arguably since FM10, and certainly the best ME I've played. Just hope they don't overdo the bits you mention. Needs a little tweak in each direction 

 

49 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think it's because I always play on comprehensive, but I really enjoy the ME. It's got its areas to work on, but it's my favourite ME for a long time, arguably since FM10, and certainly the best ME I've played. Just hope they don't overdo the bits you mention. Needs a little tweak in each direction 

After playing the new ME a lot I absolutely agree. A little bit of tweaking and it’s there to be honest. 

[keithfc]

3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think it's because I always play on comprehensive, but I really enjoy the ME. It's got its areas to work on, but it's my favourite ME for a long time, arguably since FM10, and certainly the best ME I've played. Just hope they don't overdo the bits you mention. Needs a little tweak in each direction 

I play on on comprehensive too. Wow, that means you are enjoying to watch over closely 100 crossing  every game? Comprehensive highlight shows all the highlight of crossing, corner and shooting even all of them are blocked. When you are playing weak team, you will feel success you have set up a great defending. But when you have watched over a season, may be over 100 games,  than you will feel boring. Similar blocking, similar long shoot exists again and again.  

 

But strictly speaking,  success of feeling is just based on poor movement of attacker in final third phase. It may not necessary mainly related to your setup.

 

Great Defending!  

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by keithfc

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, keithfc said:

I play on on comprehensive too. Wow, that means you are enjoying to watch over closely 100 crossing  every game? Comprehensive highlight shows all the highlight of crossing, corner and shooting even all of them are blocked. When you are playing weak team, you will feel success you have set up a great defending. But when you have watched over a season, may be over 100 games,  than you will feel boring. Similar blocking, similar long shoot exists again and again.  

 

But strictly speaking,  success of feeling is just based on poor movement of attacker in final third phase. It may not necessary mainly related to your setup.

 

Great Defending!  

 

I've absolutely no idea what you're on about here tbh. Just seems to be an angry incoherent reply. 

[Svenc]

5 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think it's because I always play on comprehensive, but I really enjoy the ME. It's got its areas to work on, but it's my favourite ME for a long time, arguably since FM10, and certainly the best ME I've played. Just hope they don't overdo the bits you mention. Needs a little tweak in each direction 

What needs to be taken into account is the typically user experience of playing like an extremely defensive opposition every week (in particular in longer Term saves). As hinted at, the AI tends to go a) far too extremely defensive (5+ Kids behind the ball) b) in tendency doesn't switch much sometimes even after conceding and c) does it in general very readily. However, that would be a long term thing in parts.

I don't know if anybody else tried this. But on prior releases, I would go into the editor, pick a league, filter their managers and edit them all to: a) prefer top heavy formations, b) edit their traits to inherently attacking ones. Then I'd also Level the starting club reputations of the leagues, so that AI would be tricked into thinking say Chelsea and Cardiff were roughly on even Terms. This immediately not merely rubbed off on not only on the type of chances, and the general flows of the matches. But also big time the amount of goals scored in general.

In internal beta testing, it would be real interesting to set up a multi player league of exclusively human testers. In particular as in tendency human players always lean on the more attacking side of things....  Just to see what their reported experience is going to be. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Svenc

[bleventozturk]

6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think it's because I always play on comprehensive, but I really enjoy the ME. It's got its areas to work on, but it's my favourite ME for a long time, arguably since FM10, and certainly the best ME I've played. Just hope they don't overdo the bits you mention. Needs a little tweak in each direction 

Exactly. I am scared that they go too much in the other direction because of the exaggerated criticism here.  Just little tweaks is all it needs.

[keithfc]

6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I've absolutely no idea what you're on about here tbh. Just seems to be an angry incoherent reply. 

What I mean is I dont understanding why you mentioned this is the best ME since FM10. May be you dont have mentioned any reason which makes me confused.

I dont know how many match you have watched in comprehensive highlight? May be Just a few match?

When you have watched a certain amount of match, when you watched similar situations happen again and again, I dont think you will say it is the best ever.  This is What I want to mentioned.

 

TBH, i dont understand why you feel I am angry.                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Deference!!Deference!!Deference!!

Edited December 25, 2018 by keithfc

[Viking]

There´s still some very weird own goals around. My keeper just recieved a back pass from one of his team mates, then slided into the goal with the ball in his hands, standing up, facing the goal, and feet not moving.

[themadsheep2001]

28 minutes ago, Viking said:

There´s still some very weird own goals around. My keeper just recieved a back pass from one of his team mates, then slided into the goal with the ball in his hands, standing up, facing the goal, and feet not moving.

If you still have the match, would be good to create a bug thread of this with a pkm. 

[Viking]

8 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

If you still have the match, would be good to create a bug thread of this with a pkm. 

I reloaded the game. But I will keep that in mind if it happens again.

[Svenc]

7 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

Exactly. I am scared that they go too much in the other direction because of the exaggerated criticism here.  Just little tweaks is all it needs.

Personally at least I don't see much players "hoofing" it despite encouraging the opposite for instance, as usual. It's the completely opposite. And you can play keep-ball ad nauseum again, as usual too -- in particular once the AI has picked its defensive approaches again. And this is on watching full.

Speaking of which, I would still consider how the AI operates in terms of tactical decisions, as changing that can change the game experience significantly all alone -- as outlined in my bigger post from tonight. In particular as the more defensive tactics from the AI are far too extremely defensive anyway…. outside of FM I personally never see sides barely ever advancing a single wide defender for prolonged periods of a match -- let alone the entirety of it etc. As well as keeping half the Team plus behind the ball in General. This certainly goes for competitive matches in general. Quite the contrary, sometimes even the big underdog in a Cup match could encourage his wide defender/s  forward, which on FM would never happen simply because of how the AI traditionally operates.

As a consequence -- anybody who's ever played the game online may have noted that it's a completely different game on any release. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by Svenc

[keithfc]

Hi guys! due to holiday, I have time to write some analysis on current FM19 engine. I hope what I write can help to improve coming FM.Let's pick one of match from AI vs AI. All of the screens are captured by the comprehensive highlights. 

 

 From the above screen, you can see  TAA makes a great overlap. 2 defenders are defending him. Why he still tries to cross? It's clearly no chance. You can see that  D. Costa is wide open.  Why TAA dont pass back to D. Costa to make a better chance?

 

After some of the blocking, the ball went to mid. You can see Sane from Man City ignores TAA....... I am not necessary to cap the screen. The play will be finished by the crossing from TAA.......

Again,  FB drops too deep. No one cares D.cost. Both team also has the same problem. It provides so much space on both flank.  This is also one the reason why there is lack of central play. 

 

Actually I want to question why both CM stay so close each other..... They are totally defend by one defender..... You can imagine it will not go mid again.

again....... You can imagine man city will repeat  liverpool's situation. The ball went to the right flank. Crossing on the right, blocking, corner.

 

So the similar situation repeat again and again. No one mark both flank. Winger/ FB tried to cross urgently .  Cross are blocked. It may lead to counter attack by opposite or cross, again or corner for both team. 84 cross attempt for both team. 

 

When all the match happens  similar situations. When you have watched over 100 matches with comprehensive highlight, what  body language should you be in front of the monitor? composed?  motivated?  anxious?

 

Ok, I will show another match which is one of the team is controlled by me. I only want to show one of the old issue from FM. The above screen is the tactics setup

 

Please just look at where  the red shirt striker is...................... He is Dlf (s). But he acts as a poacher, advance forward.... No striker drops deep to hold the ball,  how can you setup a mid play? old issue.

 

As you know, False nine 's description in the game is a joke.........

 

 

 I also upload PKM for reporting different issues in the previous FM,, although all of them are not solved. I dont expect above mentioned will be solved in next patch. But I hope it can be helped  for future FM.

AI vs AI match PKM attached . It will be posted on bug forums too.  

So do you still enjoy this ME, especially repeated crossing?, repeated blocking? In FM18, you still can see some of the mid play. But in FM19, all of them are mostly disappeared.

 

You can still say this is the best match engine ever since FM10. Please provide constructive feedback and evidence to show the reason of being the best ME ever since FM10. for further discussion. But I can say this is the most not enjoyable ME ever since Fm10 as above mentioned repeated crossing, blocking and corner.  If  this is the best ME ever, I think this is not respect to old FM. 

Man City v Liverpool w.pkm

Edited December 25, 2018 by keithfc

[upthetoon]

71min - 66 crosses. 

the amount of goals from outside the box is also ridiculous. 

[Svenc]

In Addition to AI in tendency playing too defensively Football (added blocked shots, shots in tight spaces etc. to be expected), check out this.
 

There's absolutely no way this is going to not produce additionally anomalies, as this compresses all attacking space to the size of basically a tunafish can once play has transitioned into the final third. This is going to happen more pronouncedly in particular against teams camping deep, and even wingers being more competent at beating fbs 1vs1 etc.  would not change that as such.

All of this and more the UI allows and engine follows suit. For as Long as this is in and allowed, user Feedback is going to vastly differ by Definition (and additionally, AI will also on Occasion make wonky decisions). The contradiction is that though at least some Players may realize this  -- they still expect to pan it all out like an actual match of Football would. I'd personally take it all out of the game, including what the AI does (and can do) -- as without in the Long-term you're goingn to hit a ceiling as to how "realistic" the game is really going to play out. Additionally, it would allow for AI vs AI testbeds too with sensibly decisions and movement , given that the majority of soak tests are run with AI vs AI leagues/Seasons.

Edited December 25, 2018 by Svenc

[ajw10]

I manage Swindon.......

Kick off doesn't work. So that's potentially almost a month of games lost. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by ajw10

[Dagenham_Dave]

9 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

I manage Swindon.......

Kick off doesn't work. So that's potentially almost a month of games lost. 

Why are you getting Man City's team talk if you manage the other side? Unless you've signed all their players. 

[ajw10]

That's my point, it's glitched out, so I cannot give a team talk to my team and now cannot start the match.

I hate replaying games and if this crashes that's 6 I have to replay. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just now, ajw10 said:

That's my point, it's glitched out, 

I've never seen that happen on any version of FM since the team talks came into the game. You seem to get weirder bugs and glitches than anyone else, year after year. What on earth do you do to the game? 

[ajw10]

Unlucky I guess. I'm really annoyed, that's 6 years of this save utterly wasted as I don't think I'll go back to it if this save has crashed. I'm annoyed with how bad this game has become since the last update.

[GOODNAME]

I really dont know how anyone can enjoy this ME..

There is no AMC through balls to the strikers..

Strikers movement are useless 

BBM long range shots is so overpowered.. 

[Preveza]

5 hours ago, GOODNAME said:

I really dont know how anyone can enjoy this ME..

There is no AMC through balls to the strikers..

Strikers movement are useless 

BBM long range shots is so overpowered..  

Very much the same. Its now a waiting game 

[Dagenham_Dave]

14 hours ago, GOODNAME said:

I really dont know how anyone can enjoy this ME..

There is no AMC through balls to the strikers..

Strikers movement are useless 

BBM long range shots is so overpowered.. 

I've got nearly 500 hours in and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I see plenty movement by my strikers (as I highlighted with the heat maps earlier in the thread), and in saves where I play with an AMC I get a lot of chances and goals via through balls. 

Since the last update, I have noticed an increase in long range goals, but it's not gamebreaking by any stretch of the imagination. 

But then, if I'm analysing anything from the match engine, I tend to look at samples from entire matches or strings of matches rather than just look at a screenshot of a single incident. 

I feel a bit sorry for those who get bogged down with the overblown issues that are posted in here. Clearly every save is different, and there will undoubtedly be tactical set ups where any issues are magnified, but the game's definitely not as bad as made out on here.  Mate of mine got FM for Christmas yesterday, I messaged him earlier to hear his thoughts. He's sank several hours into it already, and he never once mentioned lack of through balls and poor striker movement. But then he doesn't post on here. Go figure. 

Is the game perfect? Of course not. Are there still bugs? Yes, and I do tend to report them when I see them, but overall, this is the most stable state the game has been in at this stage of its lifecycle in years, in my opinion. I was massively critical of FM18, but this version is night and day better. 

[Piperita]

The big question to answer is the following: Is the match engine getting more and more flawed or is it just finally acting as it should?

I already voiced a few complaints in this thread but the more 'regular' play I get, the more I love it again. For me it plays a lot different than 17 but that's not a bad thing. 

• Long Shots: My main complaint after the last ME update. But it really was 'just' my opponents punishing my passive approach; when I changed my DM to be more assertive, added a Stopper CB or pushed my line higher, they were just freak accidents again. 
• Striker movement and participation: I didn't have too many problems with it in the past. Now I somewhat understand where it is coming from. My DLF and TMS get some good work whereas some other roles struggle in my formation. PF worked somewhat as well. But as a German league player I find that pretty fitting the current status quo. (Sadly my star striker was struck as well because I thought he would be good at breaking offside traps...)
• Through balls: I didn't build my system around them and obviously didn't see them that often. But when I checked the analysis tab, I still scored a lot of gials from them. As a team countering from the flanks, I had goals from 26 crosses, 6 long clearances and 9 through balls. In my opinion just enough if not even two or three too many. 
• Blocked crosses. I see it but I understand it. It particularly happens at 1-v-1 situations when my team is on the counter and wants to make it quick or when my playmaker has a risky idea. On my wingplay formation or with my hyperaggressive Wingback it happens not all too often because they either double up on the flank or my wide player come from the back after my midfield has drawn the opponents away. 
• Bad clearances: Two main problems here are hasty defenders or little compactness at the back. The NNCs have gone far less accurate since the beta and under pressure standard CBs are not much better, particularly with higher tempo. I think(!) they aim for deeper playnaker roles when available but when not just away. More 'expressive' roles meanwhile are more open to either clear short, take the ball, or play a targeted ball away. And the sick perveted hyper defensive formations (e.g. 2*DM, MR, MC, ML) are of course better suited to find a teammate.

My main problems left:

• My team is slow to tackle/press in the last first (from the centre) of their own half.
• My strikers are surprisingly effective, except when they are running alone at the goalkeeper. Whether they have 'Places Shots', 'Rounds Keeper' or 'Lobs Leeper', they almost always shoot from two to three metres from the goalie, right at his chest. Happened a good ten times this season...
• VAR are just so, so slow! And happen quite a lot and almost always with the ref running to the sideline. Especially for offsides, in real life the ref trusts the man in the booth.

 

[bar333]

- Set piece instructions don't work. They simply don't. I have my striker set to attack the box from outside during corners. I have never seen that happen. They are always standing inside a pack of defenders in the box. I have my central defender set to wait near the near post on long throws to try and flick them on - I have never seen that happen either, it's always my short striker who tries to win the header and flick it on. 

- VAR. I mean, real talk now. How can it be implemented so poorly? Ideally in it's current implementation I just don't want to see it in my game, at all. It's literally nothing but a waste of time. 

Here's two suggestions for the settings menu -

A. An option to skip the animation of the ref casually jogging to the VAR stand for 10 seconds, standing there for another 10, then jogging back for another 10 before informing us of his decisions. I don't care, don't want to see it.

B. An option to disable the highlights that I have nicknamed "Hey, VAR exists!" highlights. We all know them. Their only purpose is to remind us that hey, VAR is in FM19, how awesome is that? Typically it's some sort of an absolutely nothing decision that you would never see go to VAR in real life, where it turns out that *gasp* the foul was outside the box, who could have seen that coming? Keeps me on the edge of my seat every time I tell you. Again, don't care, don't want to see it - the novelty wore off after the second time, never mind the 150th.

[CFuller]

I actually don't mind VAR in FM (even though I believe it's still very flawed in reality). However, I feel SI could have implemented it better.

My main gripe is that whenever an incident is going to VAR in FM19, the referee always stops play immediately to review the incident. I'm sure in some real-life instances that play is allowed to continue until it comes to a natural halt, at which point the decision can be reviewed.

Also, whenever a contentious goal goes to VAR, I can immediately sense by my manager's reaction which way the decision is going. If he's fist-pumping, I know we're going to be awarded a goal. If he's effing and blinding, I know the opposition will be awarded a goal. If there's no obvious reaction, then the 'goal' will be disallowed. I would like to see these manager reactions delayed until the decision has been either confirmed or overturned.

I don't want the VAR animations to be disabled completely. Shortening the time of the animations - or even offering a 'Skip' option - would be preferable in my eyes.

Edited December 26, 2018 by CFuller

[Alari Naylor]

25 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I actually don't mind VAR in FM (even though I believe it's still very flawed in reality). However, I feel SI could have implemented it better.

My main gripe is that whenever an incident is going to VAR in FM19, the referee always stops play immediately to review the incident. I'm sure in some real-life instances that play is allowed to continue until it comes to a natural halt, at which point the decision can be reviewed.

Also, whenever a contentious goal goes to VAR, I can immediately sense by my manager's reaction which way the decision is going. If he's fist-pumping, I know we're going to be awarded a goal. If he's effing and blinding, I know the opposition will be awarded a goal. If there's no obvious reaction, then the 'goal' will be disallowed. I would like to see these manager reactions delayed until the decision has been either confirmed or overturned.

I don't want the VAR animations to be disabled completely. Shortening the time of the animations - or even offering a 'Skip' option - would be preferable in my eyes.

Regarding the reactions, we'd be happy to see this posted in the Match Engine bugs forum with a couple of examples: https://community.sigames.com/forum/650-match-engine/

[Svenc]

5 hours ago, Piperita said:

 The big question to answer is the following: Is the match engine getting more and more flawed or is it just finally acting as it should?

In parts that can somewhat depend on what you prefer it to play out like. As outlined by Rashidi and a few others, on Prior releases it could be real hard to set up a low block kinda defense and that actually being somewhat robust. Depending on the release, you could walk into the box of opponents (to exaggerate). On some the top Dribblers made this many dribbles, they could rip packs of Players apart simply if you fielded them someplace (which granted, also helped the AI top Teams to stay competitive). This is always going to be a balancing act, and I personally find that the bias is Always onthe more attacking end of Things. Bootiful footie, bootiful play, bootiful goals. From my experience that also goes for the more detailed ME Reports. They are always in tendency seen from the attacking end. However, if low block defending is more robust in General, the AI Needs to be taken into account too. It's playing too defensively in General for a host of versions. Imagine if you didn't have but a couple teams completely shutting up shop in the league, but a host to all of them.

I'd love to see a so called "super tactic" for once that does what the attacking tactics typically do, except vice versa: Having a consistently season to Season shot AGAINST conversion advantage over the Opposition that is unheard of. Basically, what Burnley did over spells of last Season, like opponents needing 25-30 shots to score a Goal against them except consistently. Pair that with one of Striker Guido's "1 Corner Goal per match" exploitees -- may be something different for once.  

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190214/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Burnley-Crystal-Palace
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190176/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Chelsea-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190216/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Burnley-Huddersfield
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190255/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Everton-Burnley
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190196/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Burnley

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/sports/soccer/burnley-arsenal-premier-league.html


I hadn't really started a proper save on FM15 for a long time myself, as initially it was so easy for opposition to breach the boxes. However, the real "perfect" ME experience is one that balances a multitude of approaches and preferences. 

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Svenc

[CFuller]

56 minutes ago, Alari Naylor said:

Regarding the reactions, we'd be happy to see this posted in the Match Engine bugs forum with a couple of examples: https://community.sigames.com/forum/650-match-engine/

Thanks for the reply. I'll definitely post any examples up when I next come across them in my career.

[bleventozturk]

As I said before, for me this is first FM game where there is value in having a defensive approach to the game. I REALLY hope they won't change it back to where it is near impossible to defend against strong teams relentlessly attacking you, although I suspect many people like the game better when they can score 4 goals a game and demolish the AI every match with a very strong roster.

I just played a match against a vastly superior opponent, and although I lost 2-0 at the end, I had so much fun watching the opposition trying to break down my defense. It looked very realistic.

Edited December 26, 2018 by bleventozturk

[Bothan Spy]

This says it all for me.

[KUBI]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Bothan Spy:

This says it all for me.

Because you wrote it? The new training modul is not perfect, but I think a big improvement. Yes, it is a bit complicated at the first glance, but you don't need to do every task, you have staff for that part. Use it and change it for specific tasks and before important matches. 

[canry]

why does not iniesta exist in the large database

[CFuller]

2 minutes ago, canry said:

why does not iniesta exist in the large database

SI cannot include the Japanese leagues (or indeed any real players based in Japan) because of licensing restrictions.

[Lord Rowell]

13 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I've got nearly 500 hours in and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I see plenty movement by my strikers (as I highlighted with the heat maps earlier in the thread), and in saves where I play with an AMC I get a lot of chances and goals via through balls. 

Since the last update, I have noticed an increase in long range goals, but it's not gamebreaking by any stretch of the imagination. 

But then, if I'm analysing anything from the match engine, I tend to look at samples from entire matches or strings of matches rather than just look at a screenshot of a single incident. 

I feel a bit sorry for those who get bogged down with the overblown issues that are posted in here. Clearly every save is different, and there will undoubtedly be tactical set ups where any issues are magnified, but the game's definitely not as bad as made out on here.  Mate of mine got FM for Christmas yesterday, I messaged him earlier to hear his thoughts. He's sank several hours into it already, and he never once mentioned lack of through balls and poor striker movement. But then he doesn't post on here. Go figure. 

Is the game perfect? Of course not. Are there still bugs? Yes, and I do tend to report them when I see them, but overall, this is the most stable state the game has been in at this stage of its lifecycle in years, in my opinion. I was massively critical of FM18, but this version is night and day better. 

I've been playing / testing the Public Beta (and have submitted a number of reports with detailed comments, PKMs, screenshots etc), so I have been playing and reporting on this.

I was doing this as a PSG save. I got bored and recently deleted it, then started a West Ham save as a. I wanted something different and b. I am still on Public Beta so thought I'd look from a different perspective.

With PSG, the lack of central play was obvious as I had the best team in Lique 1, most teams defend against me. Nevertheless, I am concerned about lack of central play. They NEVER played central passes, even in obvious situations - I repeat NEVER. Now please stay with me, I ain't doing conspiracy theories

I went to the West Ham save I started. I'm not far in, about 7-8 league games. I am seeing central play and through balls in some situations. These are the same situations in the PSG save i.e counter-attack or a bit of space in transition.

The ME is the same so what has changed?

1. An unintended consequence is long shot success. I had an horrific pre-season defeat, 4-0 against a weaker Portugese side. I was playing 523, toying with some deeper lines of engagement, but this should not have been so extreme.

- since then I am playing with higher lines and pressing (variants) as default.

2. I'm not playing with an AMC. This was a tactical decision with my squad but it is fact.

3. When I tried an AMC, the same problems happened i.e. dropping too deep, slow turning on the ball, this has been reported to extreme and rightly so.

4. Through balls tended to come from the half spaces, often through my use of IW or WP roles. That's fine. Howvever...

5. Through balls are NOT occuring under ANY situations from a DLF, even when obvious.

I will try and report some specific incidents with PKMs as I go forward and am more confident on what I feel I'm consistently seeing. Nevertheless, I ask SI take note of the above and tbh its in line with prior reported issues.

This ME is so so close to being fantastic but this is a nagging issue.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Lord Rowell

[skodamogadon]

On 24/12/2018 at 22:11, Svenc said:

What needs to be taken into account is the typically user experience of playing like an extremely defensive opposition every week (in particular in longer Term saves). As hinted at, the AI tends to go a) far too extremely defensive (5+ Kids behind the ball) b) in tendency doesn't switch much sometimes even after conceding and c) does it in general very readily. However, that would be a long term thing in parts.

Having played against a team where the ai decided to have a single amc be their most advanced player in their formation and then thought best for the goalie to kick it long on goal kicks to the non existent striker and so consequently concede possession from every goal kick. In real games defensive teams don’t aim to concede possession from goal kicks  and the forward players will try to contest long balls.  In some ways the engine is working correctly as if there are no players in advanced positions kicking the ball long should concede possession but to do it repeatedly from goal kicks is just stupid. From memory the AI had 0 shots the entire game. 

[Svenc]

4 hours ago, skodamogadon said:

Having played against a team where the ai decided to have a single amc be their most advanced player in their formation and then thought best for the goalie to kick it long on goal kicks to the non existent striker and so consequently concede possession from every goal kick. In real games defensive teams don’t aim to concede possession from goal kicks  and the forward players will try to contest long balls.  In some ways the engine is working correctly as if there are no players in advanced positions kicking the ball long should concede possession but to do it repeatedly from goal kicks is just stupid. From memory the AI had 0 shots the entire game. 

Conceding Possession easily can also be a factor. But what is a more significant one is that the AI has Zero movement and support in its most extremely defensive tactics applied too readily and therefore in tendency has all ist positional attacks defended. It's easy to defend this -- and mostly is simply mopped up. Whilst in real Football even the huge Underdog in a Cup tie can send at least one of his full backs Forward. On FM that would never, ever happen simply of how the AI traditionally operates. As they also drop Deep, and Deep block defending is more robust, of Course Players are going to face stale mates every single match, whereas in Football Things aren't that extreme at all. On Occasion, in the BL even Augsburg can have a real go at Munich away at least for periods of a match. Even 2. Bundesliga Bochum can and did do it in a Cup tie -- and concede the opening Goal off the space vacated by their bombing back that Robben takes Advantage of etc. This is stuff going on in actual Football. In particular Underdog/favorite match-ups in FM tend to be all of a very specific, same ilk.

 

This is acceptable as a means of a hugely Underdog who simply doesn't want to be thrashed. However, on FM it's the defensive Approach "to go to" for the AI for a very Long time as soon as it is the slightest bit of an underdog. And on occasion, even Barcelona et all would have done it. As argued, I did an editor experiment on a prior release. Whilst this is unrealistic also: Simply by giving the AI Managers in a league inherently attack minded traits as well as Level a club's starting Reputation, this would significantly rub off not only on the ebb and flow of Matches. But also directly on the amount of Goals. Both were full Detail simulations.

Standard DB



Edited DB

So rather than solely considering a major rebalancing shift in Terms of how the ME inherently operates, I would take a REAL close look at how the AI (traditionally) operates also.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Svenc

[darthlemon]

This game feels like the most shoddy version churned out in years. The match engine has never been the strong point of this game (far, far from it) but this one is the worst yet.

 

Long range shots are a total joke. I won't accept the age old 'it's your tactics'. It shouldn't require tailoring your tactics to stop the computer scoring 3 long range shots in one game. Especially when they are just hit straight at your keeper.

 

Playing with a relegation fodder side is hard enough under normal circumstances... but when you are literally conceding at least one goal per game from 25+ yards, it's just totally miserable. Losing 3-2... 2 of them are long range shots. The other goal is a corner, which leads me to my next point;

 

Delegating training. This just doesn't work in this game because assistants refuse to do any sort of set piece match preparation. I hate setting up training (especially when the system is clunky as it is) so I always delegate to the assistant manager. But this isn't really an option this year, unless you're prepared to concede 1+ goal per game from set pieces. In previous versions it seemed to work because match preparation was separate. Not anymore!

 

This game in a nutshell: lose every game 4-3. Two of the goals you concede will be from corners. The other two will be long range thunderbolts. You will be winning at 85 minutes before the computer scores 2 long range shots in the final 5 mins. Great fun.

 

Also VAR is such a waste of time. 

 

Also also: will strikers ever be able to finish one on ones? 

Edited December 27, 2018 by darthlemon

[darthlemon]

2 hours ago, darthlemon said:

This game feels like the most shoddy version churned out in years. The match engine has never been the strong point of this game (far, far from it) but this one is the worst yet.

 

Long range shots are a total joke. I won't accept the age old 'it's your tactics'. It shouldn't require tailoring your tactics to stop the computer scoring 3 long range shots in one game. Especially when they are just hit straight at your keeper.

 

Playing with a relegation fodder side is hard enough under normal circumstances... but when you are literally conceding at least one goal per game from 25+ yards, it's just totally miserable. Losing 3-2... 2 of them are long range shots. The other goal is a corner, which leads me to my next point;

 

Delegating training. This just doesn't work in this game because assistants refuse to do any sort of set piece match preparation. I hate setting up training (especially when the system is clunky as it is) so I always delegate to the assistant manager. But this isn't really an option this year, unless you're prepared to concede 1+ goal per game from set pieces. In previous versions it seemed to work because match preparation was separate. Not anymore!

 

This game in a nutshell: lose every game 4-3. Two of the goals you concede will be from corners. The other two will be long range thunderbolts. You will be winning at 85 minutes before the computer scores 2 long range shots in the final 5 mins. Great fun.

 

Also VAR is such a waste of time. 

 

Also also: will strikers ever be able to finish one on ones? 

This is my current season (league games)

Wolves (A) - Drew 2-2 - 1 set piece conceded.

West Ham (H) Lost 1-3 - 1 long range goal conceded.

Burnley (A) Lost 2-3 - 2 long range goals conceded. 1 long ranged goal scored.

Man Utd (H) Lost 2-3 - 1 set piece conceded. 1 long range goal scored.

Arsenal (H) Lost 2-4 - 2 long range goals conceded. 1 set piece conceded. 1 long range goal scored. 1 set piece scored.

Liverpool (A) Lost 0-4 - 3 long range goals conceded.

 

What am I classing as 'long range'? Goals from outside the area that would be goal of the month candidates in any other version of FM. In regards to outside the area, I discounted times when it's obviously not a long range - i.e. if someone was clean through and scored a chip or something. Or if it was a well worked goal were there weren't any defenders around the goalscorer.

 

That's 8 long range shots conceded it in 6 games. An average of 1.33 per game. This is only a small sample size but I'm almost certain I could go back through my previous season and the average number would be pretty similar.

 

I'm not pretending to be amazing at this game, but the long range shots are clearly broken and ruining the experience of playing. You can have more possession, more shots, more clear cut chances, but you concede 2 long range shots out of nowhere and it's curtains.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by darthlemon

[CFuller]

As much as you don't want to read the words "it's your tactics"... it might be your tactics.

Are you finding your defence keeps leaving space for opposing players to launch shots? Is your defence not getting adequate protection? If so, you might want to visit the tactics forum, so you can get to the bottom of what is going wrong.

A vocal minority of users are reporting issues saying they see too many long-distance goals. Many users are not seeing such issues, though, so calling long-range shots "broken" or "overpowered" is just hyperbole.

I'm in the fourth season of my Fiorentina save, and in one of my tactics, I currently have a half-back protecting the central defenders. We've played six competitive matches so far and have conceded just one goal, which came when my goalkeeper was caught in possession by Bayern's substitute striker. At the other end, we've scored seven goals, and the only one I would class as 'long-range' was a direct free-kick.

[canry]

13 saat önce, CFuller said:

SI cannot include the Japanese leagues (or indeed any real players based in Japan) because of licensing restrictions. 

   thanks for answer

[darthlemon]

7 minutes ago, CFuller said:

As much as you don't want to read the words "it's your tactics"... it might be your tactics.

Are you finding your defence keeps leaving space for opposing players to launch shots? Is your defence not getting adequate protection? If so, you might want to visit the tactics forum, so you can get to the bottom of what is going wrong.

A vocal minority of users are reporting issues saying they see too many long-distance goals. Many users are not seeing such issues, though, so calling long-range shots "broken" or "overpowered" is just hyperbole.

I'm in the fourth season of my Fiorentina save, and in one of my tactics, I currently have a half-back protecting the central defenders. We've played six competitive matches so far and have conceded just one goal, which came when my goalkeeper was caught in possession by Bayern's substitute striker. At the other end, we've scored seven goals, and the only one I would class as 'long-range' was a direct free-kick.

I've tried a load of different things. I've used half backs, anchor men. I've tried a higher line of engagement and pressing. I've tried attacking more, defending more. Lots of stuff which I've already forgotten.

 

But one thing I want to say in regard to the 'it's your tactics' thing - think of tactically inept managers from real life. Do their teams concede 3 long range shots in a game? Do they conceded them almost every week without fail? Their teams can be carved up and humiliated, but it's not a case of 'bad tactics = long shots automatically conceded!'. 

 

 

 

[kandersson]

Finally played a bit on 19.2, unfortunately I have to agree that DLF or F9 or AF really make no difference, i.e. striker movement is still a big issue. They'll maybe volley or head a ball towards goal if the ball happens to go near them otherwise they have little movement and impact on the game (except for pure counters), which of course also have a big impact on playmakers and central play. Most of chances I see (both for me or AI) come from throw ins, corner kicks and a (very) increased number of long shots, so boring. One of the least enjoyable editions of ME in years in my opinion.

[westy8chimp]

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

As much as you don't want to read the words "it's your tactics"... it might be your tactics.

Are you finding your defence keeps leaving space for opposing players to launch shots? Is your defence not getting adequate protection? If so, you might want to visit the tactics forum, so you can get to the bottom of what is going wrong.

A vocal minority of users are reporting issues saying they see too many long-distance goals. Many users are not seeing such issues, though, so calling long-range shots "broken" or "overpowered" is just hyperbole.

I'm in the fourth season of my Fiorentina save, and in one of my tactics, I currently have a half-back protecting the central defenders. We've played six competitive matches so far and have conceded just one goal, which came when my goalkeeper was caught in possession by Bayern's substitute striker. At the other end, we've scored seven goals, and the only one I would class as 'long-range' was a direct free-kick.

IRL its often the aim of the defence to 'force' the opposition to shoot from long range. There is clearly too many goals being scored from long range. 

I'm always very forgiving of the ME I. E. I don't massively care if the stats like number of crosses or passes don't trend in line with Real life... Because I watch mostly in extended highlights. But when the goals are massively skewed to one style it's really a rubbish experience... Set pieces and long shots are awful. 

Last few years exploits were perfectly avoidable because they came from specific, largely unused by AI formations. 

But you can't avoid long shots or set pieces, whilst using some very common formations like 442

Edited December 27, 2018 by westy8chimp

[GOODNAME]

2 hours ago, kandersson said:

Finally played a bit on 19.2, unfortunately I have to agree that DLF or F9 or AF really make no difference, i.e. striker movement is still a big issue. They'll maybe volley or head a ball towards goal if the ball happens to go near them otherwise they have little movement and impact on the game (except for pure counters), which of course also have a big impact on playmakers and central play. Most of chances I see (both for me or AI) come from throw ins, corner kicks and a (very) increased number of long shots, so boring. One of the least enjoyable editions of ME in years in my opinion.

Let me correct you , the baddest ME that we ever had in FM.

And its very sad because all the other stuff expect the ME is there. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by GOODNAME

[rdbayly]

2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

IRL its often the aim of the defence to 'force' the opposition to shoot from long range. There is clearly too many goals being scored from long range. 

I'm always very forgiving of the ME I. E. I don't massively care if the stats like number of crosses or passes don't trend in line with Real life... Because I watch mostly in extended highlights. But when the goals are massively skewed to one style it's really a rubbish experience... Set pieces and long shots are awful. 

Last few years exploits were perfectly avoidable because they came from specific, largely unused by AI formations. 

But you can't avoid long shots or set pieces, whilst using some very common formations like 442

They are flying in like missiles from everywhere (both for and against), particularly when analysed over a larger sample. One of the biggest catalysts of long range goals originates from defending throw-ins. You can play DMs and assign multiple players to stand on the edge of the area, but they simply don't stay there and mark / occupy the critically dangerous space.

When a throw in is taken, you'll notice that players freeze for a few seconds, locked in to their set piece position. When they start to move, things are already looking bad after a few simple square passes. Far from closing down / tacking opposition players on the edge of the area, defenders jog / walk very slowly next to them, opening up the angle / space for them to shoot at. It's almost as if they are willing them to score.

Edited December 27, 2018 by rdbayly

[Alekos]

Guys please stop saying is your tactics or etc for conceding long range shots..We are not newcomers in FM series..As I have wrote in a previous post which was deleted it is more than obvious there is a problem with the ME concerning long range shots..Thats why we have so high scores in every league..I have started a season with Forest Green and my games averaging 4-5 goals..Same happens to the AI teams that play in the background..I cannot understand how something so obvious slipped away for the SI team..I am not saying the problem is only against us..We score also some crazy scorchers from outside the penalty area every single game..I have all the games available saved to prove it if you like..Hope there will be a fix soon enough and not wait till March update to play a game that we paid in November 

[GOODNAME]

44 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Guys please stop saying is your tactics or etc for conceding long range shots..We are not newcomers in FM series..As I have wrote in a previous post which was deleted it is more than obvious there is a problem with the ME concerning long range shots..Thats why we have so high scores in every league..I have started a season with Forest Green and my games averaging 4-5 goals..Same happens to the AI teams that play in the background..I cannot understand how something so obvious slipped away for the SI team..I am not saying the problem is only against us..We score also some crazy scorchers from outside the penalty area every single game..I have all the games available saved to prove it if you like..Hope there will be a fix soon enough and not wait till March update to play a game that we paid in November 

My BBM scored in MIlan in the first season 17 goals in the league.. more than my striker and both of my IF.

Im winning and im not enjoying... 

[bleventozturk]

40 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Guys please stop saying is your tactics or etc for conceding long range shots..We are not newcomers in FM series..As I have wrote in a previous post which was deleted it is more than obvious there is a problem with the ME concerning long range shots..Thats why we have so high scores in every league..I have started a season with Forest Green and my games averaging 4-5 goals..Same happens to the AI teams that play in the background..I cannot understand how something so obvious slipped away for the SI team..I am not saying the problem is only against us..We score also some crazy scorchers from outside the penalty area every single game..I have all the games available saved to prove it if you like..Hope there will be a fix soon enough and not wait till March update to play a game that we paid in November 

Agreed with this. When an observation is widespread in most AI vs. AI matches, it IS an issue. The fact that a human player can find some workaround to semi-fix the issue does not mean that it is there only because of your tactics. 

Personally I like this ME a lot when I watch the matches in comprehensive, but if you only look at the goals scored, it reveals some of the problems that have been already discussed here. Majority of the goals scored are from:

1- Crosses (including corners and free kicks from wide areas)

2- Long shots (including free kicks from central areas)

There are very few goals that are scored from inside the box (other than crosses of course), and yet some of those are still from a series of passes that start with a throw in close to the corner flag). 

These are just plain observations, and they are widespread, and the tactics of the users should not take the blame for these therefore.

The important part is the CAUSE though. If it was something easy to fix, it would have been fixed already. For example, yes I agree that there are too many goals from long shots. But is is happening because the long shots are overpowered, or is it because the AI is setup the defend too deep when the ball is just outside the penalty box? I personally think it is the latter, and that is the same reason for too few through balls.