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Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

Biggest downside for this year's FM from your pov ?  

66 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. What really annoy you this year while playing FM19 ?

    • Players moaning for new contracts too often
      23
    • Gegenpressing tactic too powerful
      12
    • Youngsters determination decreasing despite tutoring
      10
    • IA still stockpiling players at a specific position/low teambuilding
      11
    • Calendar bug ,only 1 day to recover between 2 officials games, especially a the end of the season (Obviously, i'm not talking about the Boxing day)
      6
    • International call-ups issues (players unavailable for Champions League final etc...)
      5


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Same here. I'm happy with player condition and injuries this year. I was cruising early and mid-season with no significant injuries apart from 1 to 2 week minor ones. Then going into the final two months of the season I was plagued with some key injuries and led the league with 6 total injuries in the final month. This was attributed to me being successful with CopaSudamerica and making a good run all the way to Cup finals. I could have rotated my players better.

Edited by rain94

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Look, we gotta talk about 1v1's and finishing in general. Yeah, it's a tired old discussion, and it's better than FM18, but I struggle to see how people think there's no issue there at all.

I just won a game 5-2. Here's my striker's game though -

8FD46081DB0A9CD7D2D13C4CBE806D154E870EF8

6 CCC's, for him alone. Every single one was a 1v1 with the GK. This is a player with 15 finishing, 14 composure, 15 determination and resolute personality (which supposedly affects how players react to missing).  The main issue I have is every chance was a copy paste attempt at a finish. Not a single one of them went wide, or high, they were all on target - absolutely, dead on straight at the GK. Not a hint of an effort to try going for the corner or the far post from the more angled chances. This is my big problem with 1v1's in FM19 - who aims for the centre of the goal in a 1v1 with the GK so damn often? 9 times out of 10 players go far post, near post, whatever, unless they're trying to slip it between the goalie's legs. You might be fooled and think the GK pulled a great performance - he had a 6.3 rating in that game. Even the game knows he didn't really 'save' much, the ball was fired straight at him every single time.

These were all of my CCC's, by the way. Where did the goals come from then? 1 from a corner, 2 from... you guessed it, long range crackers. And the remaining 2 were actually good goals that I enjoyed seeing, which is why this is frustrating - the ME does have good potential. Set pieces need to be toned down, everyone has been saying it since release, they have been but still feel too deadly. And now long range goals have started flowing in since the patch, whether from open play or DFK's, which I'm not sure who asked for? I found them much better than in FM18 without being ridiculous, they were perfectly balanced.

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17 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

I haven't played enough of FM19 yet to notice... Are the AI managers better equipped in terms of intelligence to rest jaded players now though? Or do they continue to plug the same players in game after game despite minor injuries and fatigue? 

They should be capable of dealing with it, relative to their resources and ability. Let me know if you see anything that looks obviously wrong :thup:

Ps. The AI is often a bit more flexible than the User when it comes to Condition. Many Users only play players at 90%+, which isn't really necessary, the AI draws the line lower.

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14 hours ago, bar333 said:

Look, we gotta talk about 1v1's and finishing in general. Yeah, it's a tired old discussion, and it's better than FM18, but I struggle to see how people think there's no issue there at all.

I just won a game 5-2. Here's my striker's game though -

8FD46081DB0A9CD7D2D13C4CBE806D154E870EF8

6 CCC's, for him alone. Every single one was a 1v1 with the GK. This is a player with 15 finishing, 14 composure, 15 determination and resolute personality (which supposedly affects how players react to missing).  The main issue I have is every chance was a copy paste attempt at a finish. Not a single one of them went wide, or high, they were all on target - absolutely, dead on straight at the GK. Not a hint of an effort to try going for the corner or the far post from the more angled chances. This is my big problem with 1v1's in FM19 - who aims for the centre of the goal in a 1v1 with the GK so damn often? 9 times out of 10 players go far post, near post, whatever, unless they're trying to slip it between the goalie's legs. You might be fooled and think the GK pulled a great performance - he had a 6.3 rating in that game. Even the game knows he didn't really 'save' much, the ball was fired straight at him every single time.

These were all of my CCC's, by the way. Where did the goals come from then? 1 from a corner, 2 from... you guessed it, long range crackers. And the remaining 2 were actually good goals that I enjoyed seeing, which is why this is frustrating - the ME does have good potential. Set pieces need to be toned down, everyone has been saying it since release, they have been but still feel too deadly. And now long range goals have started flowing in since the patch, whether from open play or DFK's, which I'm not sure who asked for? I found them much better than in FM18 without being ridiculous, they were perfectly balanced.


Whilst the scoring rates in real football are massively variable over individual matches, I'd say your best bet is the bug sections. Historically they had significantly tweaked a certain type of one on one AFAIR -- where it was also acknowledged there was an issue with the keeper reach, which is the Crux of the matter. They come off different assists, from different angled passes, etc. Some of them force the Forward to immediately turn and shoot, others give him a tad more time. This should all significantly influence, realistically. If the average one on one may be a 1 in 3 Chance, the better ones would fall into the 1 in 2 bracket -- the more difficult ones however perhaps more in the 1 in 5 category. Without knowing the Maths, we cannot tell exactly in-game.

Finally on holiday out of curiosity how severe things may be I'm currently attempting a " one on one" stress test. It's unrealistic, but there ya go.

B7hRiDd.jpg

But the first couple were usually taken. Exceptions tend to be those from narrower angles and/or where the full back still manages to pressure the forward. HOwever, inevitably, those will be rather low pressure scenarios (in particular if you tweak your midfield Players additioinally to all to man mark the opposition centre backs so that they don't track back into the own half/third anymore upon defending.) :D Naturally this is unrealistic (and may regarded such by SI), as such scenarios don't happen in huge numbers in Matches with "sensible" tactics. So far I'd perhaps be more concerned with some of the decisions when Players are in such numerical Advantages in the opposite box, like them Shooting themselves rather than producing a cut back that would get the keeper out of the picture already, and wasted Play. As a result, after 23 minutes, it's "just" 10-0 Milan.
 

Naturally, SI may not tweak General player decision making to such unrealistic scenarios -- which is one of the reasons I'd personally also like generally non-sensical tactical decisions in the UI go, which produce movement you barely see on a professional Football pitch in General. The UI allows such outside of such obvioiusly bonkers picks as mine.  :DThat way SI can focus on the realistic play and decisions, and Focus on consistently football core logics generally rewarded. My suspicious is that the ME would develop a lot better if the nonsense was taken out of the game. It may benefit the AI too. Speaking of which… that's what I'm going to take a look at also. Holidays hooray. 

 

Edited by Svenc

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1 hour ago, Totalfootballfan said:

Very often the way defenders react and handle long balls over the top looks just anecdotal…

I suggest giving this area a closer attention because this a very important area but at the moment very often it looks very ugly

In the video below an example of what I’m talking about

Without any doubts Weiser(defender) should be the first on the ball but instead running toward the ball he was doing some mysterious mawba jawba and at the end he left the ball to Werner.

As I said all that look very ugly and unnatural…

 

 

 

 

Can you upload the pkm is possible . They can't do much with a YouTube clip. 

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From that clip I would bet the defender has (perhaps incorrectly) decided he's not going to make it to the ball first, so instead he concedes the ball to the attacker and cuts inside to get between the attacker and the goal.  But it looks extremely strange because there probably isn't a defender alive who wouldn't at least make an attempt at the ball in that situation.

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23 часа назад, RandomGuy. сказал:

I've never seen this once in the 8 seasons I've played on this year's save. 

I genuinely feel like I'm playing a different game sometimes. People seem to have issues with striker roles being identical, yet I'm finding them all acting differently. Had issues with goals from lofted balls over my defence, but that was a tactical issue. Don't see an unnerving amount of red cards, don't see a huge amount of direct free kick goals, don't see just one type of goal.

I don't have player mutinies when I sell someone, don't have the AI refusing to sign my players, don't have the AI making horrendous bids for my player.

I think I'm lucky though.

Good for you. I can score goal only by freekick, counterattack or long shooting. Forget about combinations in possession. But in beta combinations were great, its strange

Edited by Novem9

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I've got a bit of feedback honestly that isn't even feedback for FM19, it's for FM in general because this has been going on for literally as long as I can remember. Players heading the ball for no reason whatsoever when they can use their feet, how long has this been an issue? It genuinely seems as if the decision making algorithm on whether to head the ball or try to control it comes down to -

If on ground, use feet.

Else, use head.

It just leads to things that look downright silly, players behaving like monkeys and going "OH, ball in air, head must use". Strikers flicking the ball to absolutely no one because there isn't anyone in front of them or making a run, players completely free in the box who have enough time to control the ball and go watch a movie before anyone closes them down still choosing to head it from hopeless positions for a header, defenders under absolutely no pressure just casually heading the ball down to opposition players' feet, etc. The latter especially leads to a good number of goals and it's just... why? Why are players unable to figure out that they are allowed to take the ball with feet when it's coming at them from the air? The only time I see that is when a GK launches a goalkick straight at the opposition CB's and there's basically a third of the pitch between them and the nearest opposition player. Only then do they allow themselves to not head it aimlessly.

Edited by bar333

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1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

Good for you. I can score goal only by freekick, counterattack or long shooting. Forget about combinations in possession. But in beta combinations were great, its strange

I wasn't having a go at people, simply stating my experience with the game. I don't think it's correct that the only opinions/feedback are the negative ones.

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40 минут назад, RandomGuy. сказал:

I wasn't having a go at people, simply stating my experience with the game. I don't think it's correct that the only opinions/feedback are the negative ones.

I got it. I didn't say bad about FM19, just want to understand how it works (or doesn't)

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Seeing a better variety of goals with this patch, including the one above. I don't think I've seen a player in that position head the ball back across goal for five or six years, they would always head it wide.

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I like the ME a lot so far. Two things I've noticed though.

1) It's still early days but I'm seeing a lot of shots hit the woodwork.

2) I've never seen a player cut inside, then cross it into the box. It's always an outswinging cross. But to be fair, I don't think I've ever seen that in the past few versions.

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14 hours ago, bar333 said:

I've got a bit of feedback honestly that isn't even feedback for FM19, it's for FM in general because this has been going on for literally as long as I can remember. Players heading the ball for no reason whatsoever when they can use their feet, how long has this been an issue? It genuinely seems as if the decision making algorithm on whether to head the ball or try to control it comes down to -

If on ground, use feet.

Else, use head.

It just leads to things that look downright silly, players behaving like monkeys and going "OH, ball in air, head must use". Strikers flicking the ball to absolutely no one because there isn't anyone in front of them or making a run, players completely free in the box who have enough time to control the ball and go watch a movie before anyone closes them down still choosing to head it from hopeless positions for a header, defenders under absolutely no pressure just casually heading the ball down to opposition players' feet, etc. The latter especially leads to a good number of goals and it's just... why? Why are players unable to figure out that they are allowed to take the ball with feet when it's coming at them from the air? The only time I see that is when a GK launches a goalkick straight at the opposition CB's and there's basically a third of the pitch between them and the nearest opposition player. Only then do they allow themselves to not head it aimlessly.

This has been an issue since the game went 2D, and I would agree it can be annoying, but in my opinion there are much more annoying things in the game at the moment.

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15 hours ago, KlaaZ said:

I like the ME a lot so far. Two things I've noticed though.

1) It's still early days but I'm seeing a lot of shots hit the woodwork.

2) I've never seen a player cut inside, then cross it into the box. It's always an outswinging cross. But to be fair, I don't think I've ever seen that in the past few versions.

A few months further now and although I still stand by the above, there are still serious problems with striker movement in my opinion. My strikers are pretty much not participating in open play and not trying to get into positions free of their defender to score. If anything, it seems to be worse since the last update. 

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

This has been an issue since the game went 2D, and I would agree it can be annoying, but in my opinion there are much more annoying things in the game at the moment.

It's a minor annoyance ... until it leads to a completely unnecessary giveaway that leads to a goal.  Then it's a hair-tearing annoyance.

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59 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

A few months further now and although I still stand by the above, there are still serious problems with striker movement in my opinion. My strikers are pretty much not participating in open play and not trying to get into positions free of their defender to score. If anything, it seems to be worse since the last update. 

https://community.sigames.com/topic/459693-me1918-striker-movement/

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So despite the page failing to load about 8 times when trying to sign in, this eventually worked... I wonder if the match engine will do the same?

Winning away games is virtually impossible because of the entirely unrealistic matches. Despite Manchester United having an utterly shocking season under Jose Mourinho, it seems SI have decided to factor that in to every single match played with Manchester United and as a result it's impossible to win any away games.

I've just played Southampton, away, and had 28 shots, with 18 on target, and scored 0 goals. They've had 7 shots, 3 on target, and scored in the 91st minute. Completely unsatisifed with my 7th away late defeat despite statistically dominating every single one of those 7 games, I decided to go for a replay... and yet again, statistically dominating Southampton away, I go 1-0 up, and then concede 3 in the last 7 minutes without changing any tactics or making any substitutions
So one game I lose 1-0 after utterly dominating, from a 91st minute strike, and the second game I lose 3-1 after utterly dominating (although not as much as the first) where I go ahead, and then concede 3 in 7 minutes... with no tactical changes. If this game has absolutely no desire to reflect real football scenarios (the odds of Southampton coming back from 1-0 down to win 3-1 would be something like 2000/1 on any bookie sites with 7 minutes to go (inc. injury time)) then what's the point in calling it a football simulator?

For reference, Southampton have 5 points from 9 games and couldn't hit a barn door... yet when playing me at home, they play like Barcelona and can smash goals in no problem as if they're title champions.


Now because I'm expecting a load of people here to go "you're using the wrong tactics"... actually;
I'm more or less using the same tactics I use on all FM games, with the obvious amendments in that the systems have changed in how you construct those tactics. The same tactics in FM2018 won me 4 back to back premier league titles from the starting season with the same team, where as in FM2019, the same team and tactics land me unable to compete in 19/38 games because of a broken match engine. I actually managed to just progress out of the third round in the carabao cup against Sunderland, narrowly winning 4-3 by which it was 4-1 up until the 87th minute where Sunderland miraculously out-possessed me, out-shot me, and out-paced everyone. I mean, if League 1 players are so dominant over Premier League players, why don't the EPL clubs IRL just go fishing in League 1 and secure full teams of players for pennies?
I'm not just complaining for the sake of complaining here either, in several games I can even call out exactly when the opposing team will score to equalise, and again to take the lead because it's started by an absurtly absurd mistake every single time:
I was playing a cup game with Mason Greenwood on as my forward, and on the edge of the opposition's box, he turned around to play a long-ball back to Chris Smalling (sat deep in his own half) with Paul Pogba open, and clearly in his line of sight (the way he turns, he span around looking directly at Pogba and opts to pass long to Smalling), this ball in turn goes over Smalling's head, allowing the opposition striker to stream on 1 on 1 with De Gea and shoots from outside the box to score a screamer down the centre of the goal (where De Gea is stood).

So really, all I've learned from this game so far is;
1. Your strikers will opt to pass all the way back to defenders instead of shoot, pass to an overlapping fullback, or an advanced midfielder.
2. Your goal-keeper is irrelevant since arguably the best goal-keeper in the world can't save a shot aimed directly at him from outside the area.
3. Away games are guaranteed losses or draws, so you need to win your entire season at home.
4. Match fitness is irrelevant, because your players will be unable to run, pass, think or tackle as soon as the 80th minute passes... but at home, you're ok.

The people I talk to on a football fan discord server that have FM2019 have also said Away games are a joke... so this isn't just me here.
I'm starting to wish I'd not bought the game and listened to the reviews on Steam with the same complaints...

When are SI going to do something about this garbage system?

Edited by iiMStevo

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After a few weeks I could continue.

Is it just me or are free kicks and long shots a lot (and I mean a lot!) deadlier now? Key highlights also feel a little derpier now. I encountered a lot of idle defensive plays whereas some CCC were never shown.

But on a positive note, my TM(A) is finally *playing* football instead of just knowing when to hold in his foot. My youth prospects are not playing like total idiots when under pressure. 

Now I need to only figure out while my players are total masochists and scream and scream about more physical training throughout the entire season however much I manually add. Or why my star striker can't decide between 'I want special penalty training' and 'stop overworking me!'

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End of my first season with the mighty Darlington:

ou3SYWoh.png?1

Start of second season (after promotion):

UDlw41nh.png?1

Since we're playing the same version of FM, with the same match engine, and the only real difference is our tactics, I'd suggest that it really is your tactics that are the problem.

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In addition of pure moves of strikers and poor WB's in defence I can't understand this AI decision:

1095121396_Image1.thumb.png.e8f9dbd9d390

If you have pkm's with moments like this, share it please there

 

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30 minutes ago, iiMStevo said:

Away games are guaranteed losses or draws, so you need to win your entire season at home.

Considering the last game i played was away and i won.....

:idiot:

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7 minutes ago, warlock said:

End of my first season with the mighty Darlington:

ou3SYWoh.png?1

Start of second season (after promotion):

UDlw41nh.png?1

Since we're playing the same version of FM, with the same match engine, and the only real difference is our tactics, I'd suggest that it really is your tactics that are the problem.

I will send you my save... and you can tell me what's wrong then. I'm using the same tactics that got me back-to-back premier league titles 4 seasons in a row, so if the match engine is the same, why are these tactics so broken and shocking now?
I guarantee you, you can run the match as often as you like, but Southampton (that can't score against anyone except me apparently this season) will still win the match.

I don't typically enjoy restarting saves, but this has become a joke. I don't understand how the same tactics works unbelievably well in last years game, but this game is an absolute joke of a simulator. It isn't realistic in the slightest in any scenario... I don't get how Sunderland can almost win against Manchester United, no matter what team gets played. Derby had to get them to penalties IRL through a fluke 1-1, yet Sunderland can bang 3 in being a far worse team?

I've opted to just starting an entirely new save, because every single away game (excluding the miraculous 4-3 victory over the mighty Sunderland in the cup) has been an absolute joke of a match. Games that should easily be walked have been scraped through, even when comfortably winning 3-0, it ends 3-3 or 3-2. That's not me changing tactics either, that's just the game simulator all of a sudden deciding that every player in a MUFC shirt has a brain aneurism at the same time and becomes a drueling mess unable to run, pass, think, talk, or do anything other than pass the opposition the ball to gift them goals in the 80+th minute.

 

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1 minute ago, iiMStevo said:

That's not me changing tactics either

Perhaps this is the root of your problem? First, the ME and the tactics creator are much changed from FM18 (and earlier). What worked last year won't necessarily work this year.

Second, you're playing against an AI manager who absolutely will change tactics; why should you be guaranteed a result if you're not going to respond?

Start a thread in the Tactics forum. You'll get plenty of advice.

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You're underestimating the effect of luck.  You've lost 2 replays of the same match, 1 of which was very close to being a draw.  It's entirely possible if you played the match 20 more times, you'd win 15 of them.

Luck is a huge part of FM and a lot of FM tactical discussion (about what does and doesn't "work") is folks getting fooled by randomness.  And I'm not excluding myself from this.

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Let's also talk about the way the AI sets up in FM19.

FM19 for me is a game of firsts in many ways, this is one of them - it's the first FM that has made me genuinely regret being successful because of how boring matches then become. Everyone is parking the bus. Everyone is Tony Pulis. AI managers being far more willing to park the bus is another of many changes made in FM19 that I can only summarize with the following question - who asked for this?

I mean, you'd expect some teams in some situations to park the bus. But here's the thing - I'm playing Stuttgart, finished last season in 2nd. Now - and I wish I was exaggerating - the only teams not parking the bus against me are Bayern and Dortmund. Maybe I get the odd Leverkusen away etc games where I don't face a parked bus. But teams in EL spots are coming to our place with the sole intention of strangling and killing the game. Teams in the bottom half will also do this at home. They do it in cups where they don't even gain anything from a draw other than ET and penalties. I'm not talking counter attacking, I'm talking everyone being peak Euro 2004 Greece or Mourinho vs Barcelona. 

Another of many issues never mentioned and never addressed because the ME issues are overshadowing everything else.

 

Edited by bar333

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What is wrong with throw ins? My players keep throwing balls into head to my free players even though there is no oponnent players arround him. I am always in fear that my players will lose the ball because of these not precise throw ins. 

 

 

And that happens one or more times every game.

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3 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

and yet again, statistically dominating Southampton away, I go 1-0 up, and then concede 3 in the last 7 minutes without changing any tactics or making any substitutions


 

There lies a big part of your problem. With 7 mins to go away from home, leading 1-0, and you aren’t making changes, checking what changes the opposition are making and doing everything you can to maximise your chances of winning. 

No successful manager in real life makes no changes during the match or fails to respond to the oppositions tactical changes, especially as losing teams will go more attacking at the end of the game to try and salvage a point. 

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Yet another FM is broken thread + a bonus of the forum is broken too.

I played almost two thirds of the season with Volendaam in 2nd division of Holland, and due to using a counter tactic all the matches, I actually won more games away than at home!!! Go figure...

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3 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

Winning away games is virtually impossible because of the entirely unrealistic matches.

That's simply not true.

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With the greatest of respect to the OP if I was going to write a satirical post sending up the general ignorance of how the game works it would read exactly like this

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4 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

So despite the page failing to load about 8 times when trying to sign in, this eventually worked... I wonder if the match engine will do the same?

Winning away games is virtually impossible because of the entirely unrealistic matches. Despite Manchester United having an utterly shocking season under Jose Mourinho, it seems SI have decided to factor that in to every single match played with Manchester United and as a result it's impossible to win any away games.

I've just played Southampton, away, and had 28 shots, with 18 on target, and scored 0 goals. They've had 7 shots, 3 on target, and scored in the 91st minute. Completely unsatisifed with my 7th away late defeat despite statistically dominating every single one of those 7 games, I decided to go for a replay... and yet again, statistically dominating Southampton away, I go 1-0 up, and then concede 3 in the last 7 minutes without changing any tactics or making any substitutions
So one game I lose 1-0 after utterly dominating, from a 91st minute strike, and the second game I lose 3-1 after utterly dominating (although not as much as the first) where I go ahead, and then concede 3 in 7 minutes... with no tactical changes. If this game has absolutely no desire to reflect real football scenarios (the odds of Southampton coming back from 1-0 down to win 3-1 would be something like 2000/1 on any bookie sites with 7 minutes to go (inc. injury time)) then what's the point in calling it a football simulator?

For reference, Southampton have 5 points from 9 games and couldn't hit a barn door... yet when playing me at home, they play like Barcelona and can smash goals in no problem as if they're title champions.


Now because I'm expecting a load of people here to go "you're using the wrong tactics"... actually;
I'm more or less using the same tactics I use on all FM games, with the obvious amendments in that the systems have changed in how you construct those tactics. The same tactics in FM2018 won me 4 back to back premier league titles from the starting season with the same team, where as in FM2019, the same team and tactics land me unable to compete in 19/38 games because of a broken match engine. I actually managed to just progress out of the third round in the carabao cup against Sunderland, narrowly winning 4-3 by which it was 4-1 up until the 87th minute where Sunderland miraculously out-possessed me, out-shot me, and out-paced everyone. I mean, if League 1 players are so dominant over Premier League players, why don't the EPL clubs IRL just go fishing in League 1 and secure full teams of players for pennies?
I'm not just complaining for the sake of complaining here either, in several games I can even call out exactly when the opposing team will score to equalise, and again to take the lead because it's started by an absurtly absurd mistake every single time:
I was playing a cup game with Mason Greenwood on as my forward, and on the edge of the opposition's box, he turned around to play a long-ball back to Chris Smalling (sat deep in his own half) with Paul Pogba open, and clearly in his line of sight (the way he turns, he span around looking directly at Pogba and opts to pass long to Smalling), this ball in turn goes over Smalling's head, allowing the opposition striker to stream on 1 on 1 with De Gea and shoots from outside the box to score a screamer down the centre of the goal (where De Gea is stood).

So really, all I've learned from this game so far is;
1. Your strikers will opt to pass all the way back to defenders instead of shoot, pass to an overlapping fullback, or an advanced midfielder.
2. Your goal-keeper is irrelevant since arguably the best goal-keeper in the world can't save a shot aimed directly at him from outside the area.
3. Away games are guaranteed losses or draws, so you need to win your entire season at home.
4. Match fitness is irrelevant, because your players will be unable to run, pass, think or tackle as soon as the 80th minute passes... but at home, you're ok.

The people I talk to on a football fan discord server that have FM2019 have also said Away games are a joke... so this isn't just me here.
I'm starting to wish I'd not bought the game and listened to the reviews on Steam with the same complaints...

When are SI going to do something about this garbage system?

There are a few things that happen in FM that look as if football punditry clichés have been coded in: away games being extra hard, 10 men playing like superheroes, plucky bottom of the league battlers, playing a rival or upcoming opponent in a cup game, cup games often ending in penalties. Punditry suggests that these things happen far more often than they actually do for the simple reason that they are highly memorable football events and they make good game narrative. Over the years it feels as if these thing have been biased in with little tweaks of probability in the ME.

Maybe I'm wrong and it is my bias that sees these things, but it certainly feels that way.

I would love to play with a copy of the ME in a test harness with access to all the parameters - I'd love to know what assumptions underlie the probabilities used in the ME code. 

 

 

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Just wonderful: I get my thick fingers to write a reply and then the mods merge threads and it vanishes into the ether...

So.the same in shorter: Match patterns might be my area of expertise as I have a save where I replay every single game about 50 times. Away games have gotten somewhat more difficult. Now I struggle in cups against lower league teams and my defense struggles a lot more against similar or better teams. 

Two things I learned to value: More conservative fullbacks and either a DM or other intercepting roles in the centre. As Manchester you will face many smaller teams that will stay deep and counter but as home team will do so consistently instead of staying back and praying. 

If you do you and attack and press and stay at the front, they get rooms and that is the big danger. If they can run down the entire pitch they are gonna get chances and with homefield motivation they do weird things. Not to mention the current strength of long ***** and free kicks. This is why I like at least one deeper midfielder who can intercept early or buy some time. 

You also need to mind your flanks as wingers and fullbacks now cross.more intelligently. In earlier versions I played a very narrow defense as I had good headers and a Goalie with control of his area. But now there come a lot more crosses into the backfield which can hurt pretty bad! Right now I am considering widening this area again to stop opponents instead of completely trusting my centre.

I.know, you probably know these basics and either went around them in the past or took care about them otherwise but FM19 is different than some of its predecessors. Opponents are far more likely to wall or counter if you are favoured. And the eternal theme of 'crosses' is something that got a lot of focus between beta and release (and as I see it, now). Add how much mental stats and morale can affect a match (not as noticable as early on where one goal could completely change everything around but still pretty much) and there is plenty to take care of.

Naturally that especially affects good team. Even more so away from home when the opponent is determined to play instead of just walling. 

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Can't speak about AMCs as they don't exist in my system. But today I saw my MCs playing a few good through balls in the final third. But all in all I agree. I don't know if it is the visualisation or the engine but these moments happen rarely and only in a few select situations up feont. From the back I see a lot of good passes but they look more hooved than well-planned.

As for strikers, right now I have some exceptional playing success with a TM(S) who essentially creates rooms in the entire opposition half and really helps to boost my IW(A) and MEZ(A). Sadly I didn't have this much luck with other roles. A Poacher just runs really well and recycles to the flanks and PF(A)s feel off without partners right besides or behind them. Meanwhile TM(A)s are perfect for first touch goals and mine currently is also working somewhat off centre but only in the final third compared to the whole half an (S) works. 

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14 minutes ago, Piperita said:

Just wonderful: I get my thick fingers to write a reply and then the mods merge threads and it vanishes into the ether...

So.the same in shorter: Match patterns might be my area of expertise as I have a save where I replay every single game about 50 times. Away games have gotten somewhat more difficult. Now I struggle in cups against lower league teams and my defense struggles a lot more against similar or better teams. 

Two things I learned to value: More conservative fullbacks and either a DM or other intercepting roles in the centre. As Manchester you will face many smaller teams that will stay deep and counter but as home team will do so consistently instead of staying back and praying. 

If you do you and attack and press and stay at the front, they get rooms and that is the big danger. If they can run down the entire pitch they are gonna get chances and with homefield motivation they do weird things. Not to mention the current strength of long ***** and free kicks. This is why I like at least one deeper midfielder who can intercept early or buy some time. 

You also need to mind your flanks as wingers and fullbacks now cross.more intelligently. In earlier versions I played a very narrow defense as I had good headers and a Goalie with control of his area. But now there come a lot more crosses into the backfield which can hurt pretty bad! Right now I am considering widening this area again to stop opponents instead of completely trusting my centre.

I.know, you probably know these basics and either went around them in the past or took care about them otherwise but FM19 is different than some of its predecessors. Opponents are far more likely to wall or counter if you are favoured. And the eternal theme of 'crosses' is something that got a lot of focus between beta and release (and as I see it, now). Add how much mental stats and morale can affect a match (not as noticable as early on where one goal could completely change everything around but still pretty much) and there is plenty to take care of.

Naturally that especially affects good team. Even more so away from home when the opponent is determined to play instead of just walling. 

Does the full back thing really work? I got absolutely fisted with a wingback on support using shaw and sidibe and got caught more often than not with the old ME. I started a new save and thought I'll go back to old routes, started using full back on attack and eventhough they cross on average 20 and about 9% (no idea why they changed actual numbers to percentages when it was easier to see what was happening) they still defend very well just less play in terms of passing it and being the opposite of lets say marcelo type player. I think the DM roles are slightly out of place, deep lying defend hardly make any tackles (highlighted attribute) and barely screen the back 4 (also since when do DM's press so much as the players use of pressing? no wonder people get caught on counter every so often). I've tried it with half backs and even defensive midfielder and didn't work as great as I lost more possession and hardly ever tackled with many players hitting around 15 tackling. Inside forwards barely cross anymore but somehow some have good crossing ability that have no use because switching flanks on a winger role barely even works as they are incompetent. Short passing seems disjointed from inside forwards and 3 centre mids support or attack, BBM role gets real bad ratings and barely passes regardless who the player is, they more or less act like ball winners than BBM's. Don't even get me started on playmaker roles, support or attack they barely even try passing to other players except to the ones always closest on formation (usually LW/RW depending which side). Is their even a need for roaming playmaker anymore when they literally act like a deep lying on support? used pogba on both roles against same opposition 3 times each to test it and they were almost the same every time, using him as a mezzala really hinders sanchez/martial/rashford/lingard... 

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5 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

So despite the page failing to load about 8 times when trying to sign in, this eventually worked... I wonder if the match engine will do the same?

Winning away games is virtually impossible because of the entirely unrealistic matches. Despite Manchester United having an utterly shocking season under Jose Mourinho, it seems SI have decided to factor that in to every single match played with Manchester United and as a result it's impossible to win any away games.

I've just played Southampton, away, and had 28 shots, with 18 on target, and scored 0 goals. They've had 7 shots, 3 on target, and scored in the 91st minute. Completely unsatisifed with my 7th away late defeat despite statistically dominating every single one of those 7 games, I decided to go for a replay... and yet again, statistically dominating Southampton away, I go 1-0 up, and then concede 3 in the last 7 minutes without changing any tactics or making any substitutions
So one game I lose 1-0 after utterly dominating, from a 91st minute strike, and the second game I lose 3-1 after utterly dominating (although not as much as the first) where I go ahead, and then concede 3 in 7 minutes... with no tactical changes. If this game has absolutely no desire to reflect real football scenarios (the odds of Southampton coming back from 1-0 down to win 3-1 would be something like 2000/1 on any bookie sites with 7 minutes to go (inc. injury time)) then what's the point in calling it a football simulator?

For reference, Southampton have 5 points from 9 games and couldn't hit a barn door... yet when playing me at home, they play like Barcelona and can smash goals in no problem as if they're title champions.


Now because I'm expecting a load of people here to go "you're using the wrong tactics"... actually;
I'm more or less using the same tactics I use on all FM games, with the obvious amendments in that the systems have changed in how you construct those tactics. The same tactics in FM2018 won me 4 back to back premier league titles from the starting season with the same team, where as in FM2019, the same team and tactics land me unable to compete in 19/38 games because of a broken match engine. I actually managed to just progress out of the third round in the carabao cup against Sunderland, narrowly winning 4-3 by which it was 4-1 up until the 87th minute where Sunderland miraculously out-possessed me, out-shot me, and out-paced everyone. I mean, if League 1 players are so dominant over Premier League players, why don't the EPL clubs IRL just go fishing in League 1 and secure full teams of players for pennies?
I'm not just complaining for the sake of complaining here either, in several games I can even call out exactly when the opposing team will score to equalise, and again to take the lead because it's started by an absurtly absurd mistake every single time:
I was playing a cup game with Mason Greenwood on as my forward, and on the edge of the opposition's box, he turned around to play a long-ball back to Chris Smalling (sat deep in his own half) with Paul Pogba open, and clearly in his line of sight (the way he turns, he span around looking directly at Pogba and opts to pass long to Smalling), this ball in turn goes over Smalling's head, allowing the opposition striker to stream on 1 on 1 with De Gea and shoots from outside the box to score a screamer down the centre of the goal (where De Gea is stood).

So really, all I've learned from this game so far is;
1. Your strikers will opt to pass all the way back to defenders instead of shoot, pass to an overlapping fullback, or an advanced midfielder.
2. Your goal-keeper is irrelevant since arguably the best goal-keeper in the world can't save a shot aimed directly at him from outside the area.
3. Away games are guaranteed losses or draws, so you need to win your entire season at home.
4. Match fitness is irrelevant, because your players will be unable to run, pass, think or tackle as soon as the 80th minute passes... but at home, you're ok.

The people I talk to on a football fan discord server that have FM2019 have also said Away games are a joke... so this isn't just me here.
I'm starting to wish I'd not bought the game and listened to the reviews on Steam with the same complaints...

When are SI going to do something about this garbage system?

Man i'm so glad you said this, I've been moaning since the official release and people were like "its your tactics", I literally have been doing what you did and same result. Lukaku is a joke on here as any role, that 13 touch is criminal but him as any role disgusts me. Rashford as adv forward does wonders but only against teams that are quick apparently cause he literally has no room against park the bus oppositions. I do agree with one guy saying not changing anything does effect your result but it shouldn't be that drastic as losing 3-1, it seems they only need 2 to 3 opportunities when being totally dominated to break the game and end up winning or drawing. Played watford away and they had 9 first team injuries... still drew 0-0 having 14 shots on target by60th min. Changed the system, brought on big game players and barely had a sniff after it shown on key highlights. You mind me asking what formation and roles you're playing to see if its the same result with same/different tactics? 

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Sadly not for me so far. My WB(A) still works but only because my forward is a tower and he can flank like a god. My last three opponents however really clobbered me with these flanks. 

In the DM I love a BWM(S) behind two CM (one of which is more defensive minded). When the opponent tries to break through he is a good first front as he sweeps up long balls and looks for an early tackle. If he gets overplayed, my DLP often is still there; these two also often 'take turns' going into attack. 

What I realised with (central) playmaker roles: They are really good when crowded by teammates. My AP(S) even made a few good through balls to the four man front in front of him. But further back the pitch they are just normal players who lack ideas. Bit of recycling, a tiny bit of tackling, some runs for space. But no big long balls however direct and risky they are meant to play. Wide playmakers however? Currently my favourite role!

Can't say I agree on flank switching however. My IW(A) made quite a few assists to my WB(A) already. Something similar was happening when I played them further forwards. In the final third the cross to the other side while the partner moves inwards is a standard move my teams use. Further back it sadly won't work over the whole field but the half positions use it pretty often. 

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To put it simply I find this instalment to heavily favour wingers and a crossing game. Playing attacking midfielders is more or less pointless, strikers movement is trash ams don't make runs past the striker or cross the ball when they get wide and Full backs constantly run diagonally with the ball towards the goal making any tactic without wingers utter dross. Couple this with ai stuffing the box with players and a deep line and a boost in goalkeeping ability and you will struggle to score playing 4231 narrow  or any other narrow formation with 1 striker no matter how good your ams are.

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7 hours ago, warlock said:

Since we're playing the same version of FM, with the same match engine, and the only real difference is our tactics, I'd suggest that it really is your tactics that are the problem.


I reserve my judgement, but the solution to this never ending problem (why do tactics "go completely bust" -- it always does for someone) could be simple, at least longer term:

Don't allow Players to enter stuff in the UI which visibly translates to play and moves that would barely ever happen on a real football pitch. And which the footballers themselves, would not correct themselves by "common sense". After all, the argument goes two ways: If you expect "realistic", do "realistic". SI's Motto in Terms of tactics has Always been kinda "garbage in, garbage out". However, what Manager in semi/professional football management does obvious garbage?

Make players think about space as opposed to zilch telling shot volumes. (in other words, drop the nonsensical final match reports as soon as possible -- they are taken for gospel, when it is simple Maths behind). 

Additioinally, don't make AI pick extremely spoil tactics purely geared towards squeezing space in their final third that oftenly.  Spoilsports are a part of footie, but things don't tend to be that one-dimensional for sides at the top as oft as in the game. A section of players still haven't realized that they are going to dominate all those simple stats come the end of the match by definition then. Nothing at all awesome about it. Dominating shots isn't dominating (Germany at the WC anyone).

Looking around various communities, it is absurd what kind of tactics are Always being shared as the best thing since sliced bread and taken Inspiration from. It's also little wonder that they on occasion report back with this hugely many anomalies. 

 

Edited by Svenc

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So it turns out my tactics I created are a like for like match to the one at the top (I forget the name, Control Possession?) with one additional setting added in - Stay on feet (I dislike getting players sent off every match), I also use the 4-2-3-1 formation which is one of the recommended formations for this tactic. So as I stated previously, my tactics aren't the problem considering they're almost like for like with the default tactics.
With my custom tactics, I get obliterated nearly every game, and every game is an almost 50-50 tie, regardless of what team is playing.
I swap to Control Possession (exactly the same, except stay on feet isn't marked on this default tactic setup), and my players suddenly spring to life and dominate the game in such a manner that the opposing team can't even get a shot off, let alone a shot on target.

The only other thing I've noticed that's different between these two setups are the individual player roles within the team.
Previously I assigned players roles in the team based on what they're actually good at and have the attributes to fulfil... where as it seems despite being better at those roles, it all of a sudden means your entire tactics fall to bits, and players often just walk into space with the ball holding up play as if glitched of some sort.

So I've got Paul Pogba running about as a BBM, and Herrera (my BBM) running about as a BWM... because apparently having Herrera as the BBM, and Pogba as an AP means the entire tactical system collapses into chaos as such that Sunderland can magically bang three goals in passed De Gea...

Edited by iiMStevo

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35 minutes ago, iiMStevo said:

apparently having Herrera as the BBM, and Pogba as an AP means the entire tactical system collapses into chaos as such that Sunderland can magically bang three goals in passed De Gea…

 

If you pair a box to box alongside to an advanced playmaker, you basically flush your entire midfield empty in Possession, leaving not merely yards of space behind, but also compress the space your side can operate in. The 4-2-3-1 in-game translates to something inherently top heavy as is visibly as of the game. If both the central midfield positions are encouraged Forward, you lose all protection to your backline, and also in tendency make Players virtually "sit atop of each other" in Terms of attack. Bluntly put, you don't have a defense anymore, and you cripple your attacks. Doesn't happen in football for prolonged minutes anywhere. This typically leads to added rushed/deflected shots, as well as tackles/deflections leadingn to additionally set pieces (and shots off them in crowded boxes by definition) -- as defenders have an easier time of getting a foot into the move and engage the ball carrier. It's harder to cover an area the size of a fully pitch than one the size of barely the final third. You will also find it far easier to Control Possession if at least one central midfielder also stays Deep -- he's going to be your Busqets.

Part of the issue is that 1) FM allows such and similar without much further ado (AI until more recent could sporadically do it too). Despite it not much happening in real football. And 2) perhaps that part of the feedback may encourage such, as you found -- you picked the most assistant recommended roles. Arguably there's also a third issue, which is that the AI isn't intelligent enough to systematically exploit such obvious "spaces". Results are further randomized by that. Some AI approaches completely exploit this (and defend it far better), others not so much. Nobody can guarantee that you like what you see if you fix a few things. The game after all tends to have issues. However, results would very likely improve.


What you describe btw has been a fairly popular mainstay of communities sharing tactics for many many years.

Edited by Svenc

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43 minutes ago, iiMStevo said:

my tactics aren't the problem considering they're almost like for like with the default tactics.

Erm how do you know what the default tactics are? Just looking at the roles and duties doesn't imply that you have them correct. On top of that your 4231 is vulnerable through the middle. You can't really expect to do well with that configuration can you? My 4231 with Liverpool is so strong I had to stop using it and start using other tactics so the game would be a challenge. 

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On ‎04‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 05:23, akkm said:

I know you will say big chances can include tap ins but the vardy is top at 70%...

Just seen this, sorry late, busy month. Don't know how exactly Opta data constitue "Big Chances" these days, on their website it's become a little wooly. However, statistically, we are entering the topics of "small sample sizes" and "Regression to the mean" here. Not only do all of these numbers on the Big Chance list trigger that  potentially issue, as Players on that list average like 20 of such chances over the entire Season (which suggests the Definition is fairly strict and only the higher end of chances apply). If Vardy holds such an edge over the average, he won't keep it for Long. If he would he would be the most desired forward in world football. The smaller the sample size, the more significant the amount of chance. There are also a number of penalty takers in the modern game who have like a 100% record -- however, they all tend to have about 20 penalties or less. Eventually, they will not convert, or they'd be likely aliens.  That's also the reason why on every seasonal "top free kick taker in Europe" graphics published there tends to be a player or two who never appear again. Free kicks are additionally special, in that it only takes 2 or 3 Goals to score off them, and you may make it onto such a list.

Likewise to how Salah this term only just about "fulfills" his xG  (his about +7 overperformance was the highest he had in recent years). It's still "just" a suggested" added Goal roughly every 6th league match over what you would expect, that is based on the finishes he had. Some of his chances however may have been weaker ones, or not at all happened with a different Forward -- xG doesn't account for positioning skills, after all. It purely tries to gauge a difference in finishing ability. On FM likewise, the chance is far more important than the player.  My numbers ultimately don't matter at all. It's SI's numbers that matter. They may hugely contradict much what is broadcast on TV all the time, including many punditry cliches towards forwards/finishers and generally chance conversion. All the more reason to get some added valuable feedback in there… without giving the entire Maths away, which may be the tricky part. :D 

Edited by Svenc

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4 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

The only other thing I've noticed that's different between these two setups are the individual player roles within the team.
Previously I assigned players roles in the team based on what they're actually good at and have the attributes to fulfil... where as it seems despite being better at those roles, it all of a sudden means your entire tactics fall to bits, and players often just walk into space with the ball holding up play as if glitched of some sort.

There's your problem. Despite saying the two tactics are identical, here you're clearly saying they're not? You made a big change in midfield already. It's nice to have players in roles that suits their attributes, but you still need a cohesive tactic. In this case, it seems like swapping a BWM for an AP affected your play negatively. It's possible that you now lack the "bite" in midfield that a BWM provides.

You can absolutely make changes to the preset tactic and it is encouraged, but you have to be aware that it's possible to improve the tactic just as it's possible to worsen it.

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3 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Erm how do you know what the default tactics are? Just looking at the roles and duties doesn't imply that you have them correct. On top of that your 4231 is vulnerable through the middle. You can't really expect to do well with that configuration can you? My 4231 with Liverpool is so strong I had to stop using it and start using other tactics so the game would be a challenge. 

Show off:ackter:

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16 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

Winning away games is virtually impossible because of the entirely unrealistic matches.

 

16 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

Now because I'm expecting a load of people here to go "you're using the wrong tactics"... actually;
I'm more or less using the same tactics I use on all FM games, with the obvious amendments in that the systems have changed in how you construct those tactics. The same tactics in FM2018 won me 4 back to back premier league titles from the starting season with the same team, where as in FM2019, the same team and tactics land me unable to compete in 19/38 games because of a broken match engine.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I'm also doing a man utd save and have no problem winning away games. Using the same tactic as fm18 and expecting to dominate is your problem, fm19 has had a tactics overhaul and the match engine is different, so not changing what your doing and using the usual match engine is broken, just because your losing is just rubbish.

9 hours ago, iiMStevo said:

So it turns out my tactics I created are a like for like match to the one at the top (I forget the name, Control Possession?) with one additional setting added in - Stay on feet (I dislike getting players sent off every match), I also use the 4-2-3-1 formation which is one of the recommended formations for this tactic. So as I stated previously, my tactics aren't the problem considering they're almost like for like with the default tactics.
With my custom tactics, I get obliterated nearly every game, and every game is an almost 50-50 tie, regardless of what team is playing.
I swap to Control Possession (exactly the same, except stay on feet isn't marked on this default tactic setup), and my players suddenly spring to life and dominate the game in such a manner that the opposing team can't even get a shot off, let alone a shot on target.

I am also using my own created 4-2-31 formation and it works perfectly fine for me, yes I do lose games but that's football, I dominate games I'm supposed to and have no issues with away games.

Also just because its similar to the default tactics doesn't guarantee it's going to work and doesn't mean you tactics aren't a problem.

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Am 15.12.2018 um 16:27 schrieb Dagenham_Dave:

There's very little wrong with the match engine at the moment, certainly nothing 'major' to the extent some on here would have you believe. 

You dont think lack of movement from attacking players is a big issue, nothing 'major '? 

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