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Erik LeBleu

Ridiculous routines, computer cheating...

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I am extremely pissed off, I am getting the old feeling that the computer is cheating on me. Playing now with Arsenal and each and every match I am getting equalised immediately after I score. By any team, no matter what tactics I use, same thing happens again and again and again. As if all the opposition waits for to express it's talents is for my team to score. Otherwise the opposition is usually pathetic. The only moment they suddenly wake up and do something is right after my team scores. That's ridiculous. Also, you can bet your life there will be a late equaliser, in the extra time usually, if you are only leading by one goal. Been playing this game since 1992... it had good versions and bad versions... all in all it always seemed to become better. But this feeling that you're somehow cheated never left the AI routines of this game. I don't expect to win each and every match in the game, after all it's a tough league and that's what I like most about it, but I can't help notice something is very wrong when you get 8 draws in a row, with the same patterns... no matter the tactics, no matter the player quality. Don't know, really. Does anyone have something like an insight, an advice?

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I will leave it to the tactics gurus to add some detail, but please start by clearing your mind of any suggestion that the AI is cheating.  Accept that things that happen in the game happen for a reason and not by pre-design and you will be able to progress to solving this

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I suspect you're experiencing confirmation bias to be quite honest. Unless you have hideous tactics and /or player mentalities. If you want to take the time to show us the evidence of this and also what tactics you use so people may be able to help you out, you'll find plenty of useful advice. As a general observation though, when a team goes 1-0 down they are usually forced into changing their tactics and going more attacking if they want to get anything out of the game. I'd suggest that you're using a tactic that can't cope with that.

However if this is just a rant to get things out of your system, fair enough.

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20 minutes ago, Erik LeBleu said:

no matter what tactics I use, same thing happens again and again and again. As if all the opposition waits for to express it's talents is for my team to score. Otherwise the opposition is usually pathetic. The only moment they suddenly wake up and do something is right after my team scores. That's ridiculous.

ok, what do you do when your team scores to try to avoid this repetitive behaviour of you then conceding?  Do you say anything to your players?  Demand more from them perhaps, or tell them to re-focus following their euphoria at scoring?  Congratulate them even?  If it happens again and again and again like you say, what are you doing about it?

24 minutes ago, Erik LeBleu said:

Also, you can bet your life there will be a late equaliser, in the extra time usually, if you are only leading by one goal.

Again, what are you doing to try to avoid this?  Telling your team to tighten up?  Adjusting your tactic to be cautious and wind down the clock?  Changing to a more defensive formation?  Wasting more time by bringing on a late substitute?  And talking of subs, perhaps replacing a midfielder light on defensive work with somebody better in this area?

I appreciate you're frustrated and if all you want to do is let off steam then fair enough.  But if you're looking for help then at the moment we have no idea of either how you are set up or what you are doing during games to make adjustments.

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Ok. I'm playing mostly 4231Wide, control and cautious. Counter activated, fast distribution to playmaker(s). Ederson, Bellerin, Koscielny, Sokratis, Kolasinac or Mendy, Rabiot and Ramsey/Bernardo Silva then Bailey/Chiesa, Nabil Fekir/Ozil and Martial with some fabulous dude I got from Italy, Icardi. As you can see, not many of them the type that loses focus after 1-0. At first I thought it might be because some of the players are not focused enough right after they score. But, focus  would mainly count with defenders... and they are all of them very competent. Sokratis...Koscielny...Christensen.. I also brought in Milenkovic... no way. Then I said to myself, ok, it happens IRL all the time... but not THAT often. I usually do some slight modifications to tactics after I score. Like shorter passing, time wasting, tighter marking (that's another problem... tighter marking doesn't seem to have any effect, whatsoever. Mostly against The Giants... ManUtd, City, Chelsea...) Nothing I tried prevents them from equalising almost immediately. And, funny enough, my team never gets to equalise in the same manner, ever never ever. I mean... why aren't my players also motivated by being lead? :) Just adding that I carefully edit their instructions, if necessary, before every game. Bah, maybe they just need more playing time together, right? Few more seasons and the machinery will start working.

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I agree totally with what others have said.

Need to post your tactic in full, screenshot is easiest.

Just from what you've said, I think personnel could be your issue.  No doubt you have quality attackers, but too many of them.  Rabiot + Ramsey/Silva as the base in a 4231 is very soft.  Man city can play Silva+bruyne because they have Fernandinho as there DM but as soon as he's out they struggle. you have playmaker after playmaker with no fernandinho type.  If opponents sit back and defend that suits you, as soon as they have to attack they could expose your weakness and leave your defenders with too much too do, however good they are.  Remember how bad every city defender looked in real life a couple of seasons ago with Toure as one of two CMs in there 4231?

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Have a look at this -

image.png.453fdd820f4529f25a587e185db0e983.png

It is from here

Excellent work by @optimusprimal82  Full of insight, especially related to game management utilising your team mentality. Following the flow chart through a few games taught me SO much. It's a bit like the process Klopp went through when he moved Liverpool on from Heavy Metal Football madness to a more sophisticated team who understood when to fly forward and when to sit back. In short, the mentality of our opponents is not static, it fluctuates through matches in response to the changing circumstances, and so should ours.

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If it ain't broke don't fix it. Why do you need to make alterations to your tactic once you take the lead?

FYI...adding shorter passing, time wasting and tighter marking to a tactic aren't slight alterations. In your attempt to close things out you might actually be confusing your players which might be proving detrimental.

From the description you have given of the problem it seems systematic rather than something which is happening by random chance.

What kind of goals are you conceding? 

Edited by pheelf

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2 hours ago, Erik LeBleu said:

I'm playing mostly 4231Wide, control and cautious

I think I am sniffing where the problem might be. But am going to refrain from any further comment until I see a screenshot of the whole tactic.

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Thanks a lot, guys, for everything you put into my dilemmas. How very true, about the Fernandinho thing... And, pheelf, this Annunaki team of mine is conceding all of them possible goals, it's not mostly free kicks or mostly counters... every possible situation is there and I even tried to play a match (vs Liverpool) several times, on different tactics and got the SAME result 4 times in a row... 1-2 at home, with a fast equaliser and a late winner, last 10 minutes :) even though I brought freshh legs and all. Guess I'm trying to solve the Arsenal problem through creating a dreamteam, but I'm not very good at picking The Dreamers correctly. Will start an Arsenal game without big guns and see if I can sort out the RL mess at Emirates. And will assuredly check out the optimusprimal guide. Thanks again!

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47 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I think I am sniffing where the problem might be. But am going to refrain from any further comment until I see a screenshot of the whole tactic.

Here's the thing:

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.27.13.23.png

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.28.13.55.png

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.28.19.70.png

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.28.23.36.png

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48 minutes ago, Erik LeBleu said:

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.27.13.23.png

I simply don't know where to start from in terms of what's wrong in this tactic. Let's see:

- as many as 3 playmakers - and all in close vicinity - which is sterilizing your attacking play

- shorter passing and lower tempo used at the same time, which further compounds the above (and even more so under a low-risk mentality such as the Cautious in this tactic)

- a use of needlessly too many team instructions, many of which are mutually incompatible (as if you are trying to blend all the existing styles of football together)

- an extremely one-dimensional setup of roles and duties (the flanks literally mirroring each other)

And these were just the most obvious issues with the tactic itself. Then we have a very problematic player selection for the midfield duo in a top-heavy system like 4231 - Rabiot and B. Silva are both lacking the necessary defensive attributes to play in CM positions in a system such as 4231 (especially Silva). Therefore, if you want to use a 4231, then don't play these 2 guys in CM (maybe Rabiot could play there, but only if paired with a defensively very solid partner). Or if you want to play them (both) in CM, then don't play in a 4231 system. Simple as that.

So if you ask me, it's only the pure quality of your (primarily attacking) players that somewhat mitigates all these flaws in your tactic. With a weaker team, I fear you could even end up fighting the relegation battle. 

4 hours ago, Erik LeBleu said:

I'm playing mostly 4231Wide, control and cautious

When you say "control", do you refer to Positive mentality (previously called "Control") or the "Control possession" preset tactic?

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5 hours ago, Erik LeBleu said:

Here's the thing:

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.27.13.23.png

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.28.13.55.png

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.28.19.70.png

Desktop Screenshot 2019.07.15 - 19.28.23.36.png

There seems to always be the common issue with people who are struggling tactically with them selecting every team instruction under the sun then not understanding why the tactic won't work. Have you considered wiping all/almost all team instructions and just trying out role, duty and mentality combinations to create a playing style as a baseline?

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Yes. Doing it now.  But the main issue - equalisers coming out of nowhere etc - still stands. It's there, under the nice skin of this game. Ty, Wixxi.

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1 hour ago, Erik LeBleu said:

Yes. Doing it now.  But the main issue - equalisers coming out of nowhere etc - still stands. It's there, under the nice skin of this game. Ty, Wixxi.

Already explained why, they responded to conceding. They can't just play for a draw and maybe sneak a set piece goal for the with anymore, they adjust to the situation and your team is weak to it.  Nothing more, you need to get the idea the game cheats out of your head any look at causes so can improve and fix them. Why would they put something into the game that there's nothing you can do about and make there game less enjoyable?

Besides the tactical issues, have you made the correct recruitment adjustments to have players who can defend who aren't a CB?

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You're on a wind-up right? :lol:

What I find incredible is that you're top of the PL with this tactic which IF legit (although I can't see how it possibly can be) should send alarm bells ringing down at SI towers.

All the best

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Oh man with tactic this full of TIs its virtually impossible to analyze single effects of one of them. Its a mess.

As @pheelf said changing the way you pass is very fundamental. One thing I could advice you to try with posession based tactic when defrnding the lead is to make the formation one step narrower and drop the mentality one step. This alone should make your players play safer and narrower formation will make it easier for them to keep the posession.

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Yeah, sorry OP but on paper there are massive issues with that set up with some crazily contradictory and ill thought out roles/duties/instructions.

I'm not surprised that you are struggling to hold onto a lead, and can picture the scenario that will happen. You are Arsenal, so initially most teams will sit back against you and you may take the lead in a game, but as soon as they're obliged to show a bit of impetus and look to attack, plus you mention you make changes which maybe invites pressure a bit more, your team looks so weak and exploitable defensively and really liable to concede goals.

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There is no spine in that team, very light centre midfield in a top heavy formation.

When playing that formation I normally have both my centre midfielders very defensively capable and mobile and hard working.

Something like a classic central midfielder on defend and maybe a box to box midfield or another central midfielder on support duty.

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I would be interested how did you manage to assemble this team on first year with Arsenal, before Jan window. Cant remember them having this crazy budget. Those are some WC and top class players in that squad + bench.

 

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1 hour ago, saihtam said:

I would be interested how did you manage to assemble this team on first year with Arsenal, before Jan window. Cant remember them having this crazy budget. Those are some WC and top class players in that squad + bench.

 

Agree. I'm sure that on another thread somebody was complaining that their opening transfer budget as Arsenal was about £30m

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@saihtam @Hovis Dexter You can move players with the editor.  I can't see another way to do them all in the first window, most are key players who clubs wouldn't want to sell so would have to offer ridiculous sums that Arsenal don't have available even with possible sales.  Your free to use the editor as you like :brock:

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the game is tripe, the most tripe of them all. simply go with an attacking mentality with much higher loe + much higher dl and extreme pressing + tight marking + offside trap

now tick counter-press + counter, throw some players in

FM19

Edited by Dickie Greenleaf

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1 hour ago, Dickie Greenleaf said:

the game is tripe, the most tripe of them all. simply go with an attacking mentality with much higher loe + much higher dl and extreme pressing + tight marking + offside trap

now tick counter-press + counter, throw some players in

FM19

I'm closing the forum.  FM19's just been won, Dickie's done it.

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14 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Agree. I'm sure that on another thread somebody was complaining that their opening transfer budget as Arsenal was about £30m

Unless it's on 19.1 version budget is 90 million then and players easier to shift out.

So he could offload the likes of Welbeck, Iwobi, Xhaka, a few other players and up with ovr 200 million to spend.

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4 hours ago, thehig2 said:

Unless it's on 19.1 version budget is 90 million then and players easier to shift out.

So he could offload the likes of Welbeck, Iwobi, Xhaka, a few other players and up with ovr 200 million to spend.

Wouldn't get more than a couple of those players with that, even if sold Laka, Aub and others. 

Mendy, ederson, and bernardo silva from man city in first window? :lol:

Plus rabiot, martial, icardi and fekir, pellegrini, Christensen and some others.

Like I said before, editor can be used however you like. Can still end up in difficulties if move wrong players. I could of course be wrong and he's a wheeling dealing genius!

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2 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Wouldn't get more than a couple of those players with that, even if sold Laka, Aub and others. 

Mendy, ederson, and bernardo silva from man city in first window? :lol:

Plus rabiot, martial, icardi and fekir, pellegrini, Christensen and some others.

Like I said before, editor can be used however you like. Can still end up in difficulties if move wrong players. I could of course be wrong and he's a wheeling dealing genius!

True, also he has Leon Bailey who also costs a fortune.

Edited by thehig2

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I simply changed my tactic to defensive mentality (from positive) and that made a world of difference. Turns out I had too much ambition for my 3 star rated squad. I rarely even tweak my tactic in game. Minimise mistakes is my best advice for any tactic / team prone to conceding equalisers or simply getting undone.

Anyway I haven't seen any cheating by the ai. I'm more guilty of cheating I'm afraid.

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On 22/07/2019 at 16:18, saihtam said:

I would be interested how did you manage to assemble this team on first year with Arsenal, before Jan window. Cant remember them having this crazy budget. Those are some WC and top class players in that squad + bench.

 

Playing a dreamteam, sorry.

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On 23/07/2019 at 15:25, thehig2 said:

True, also he has Leon Bailey who also costs a fortune.

Yes. Created a club. Just wanted to see how it works. Now I see the latest FMs are very tactics oriented. Suffice to play a misteriously 4141DM with inverted wingers and wide midfielders and you re topping the charts easily. No matter players are only fitting the roles at about orange quality... That is awkward to say the least.

But thanks alot, all, for observations and advice :) Malice never hurts, also.

I started a new season on real Arsenal this time. Not that bad this time.

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4 minutes ago, Erik LeBleu said:

Now I see the latest FMs are very tactics oriented

I'd argue this is less so than ever.  Years ago you could take a "super tactic" and pretty much win with any reasonable players.

Now tactics are important but so are the players.  They can change how a tactic plays, especially due to traits and footedness.

A player unfamiliar in a position (MR vs AMR) just makes his decisions worse, it won't make him control the ball differently or run slower etc.  Role suitability (IF vs W) is just a guide to what type of player they are, it doesn't take into account your full system (team mentality etc) or affect there attributes.  If they are unfamiliar at the position, all role suitability will be low but doesn't mean they can't do it.

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It does sometimes feel like the ME, regardless of how the match is going, will give a team a key chance immediately after going down a goal. But then again, you're only going to remember the times it did happen and not the 100 times it didn't.

Edited by FMExperiment

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