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talvikko

Is it only my impression that FM2019 is too easy?

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As I started to play FM2019 I easily win everything.
Started with the smallest club in french 3rd league (with the smallest budget) – expected to "fight bravely" against relegation.
A few matches before the end of the season my club sealed 1st place in the league.
Next season (in League 2) the same. Advanced to Ligue 1 without problems from 1st place.

I played FM2017 before and in this version it was more difficult to achieve the success.
Is it only my impression, that version 2019 is easier than 2017?

Or may I set anything it the game settings (or in the editor) to make the game more challenging?

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Maybe your tactics are good and you're a tactical guru. 

But in my experience i wouldn't call FM 19 Easier per se, i would say the players and tactics (match engine) are much more responsive, by a lot. I played 17, 18 and i'm now on 19 and i get surprised sometimes when i see a tactical change happen as well as i intended it to, unlike in the previous ones. 

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I find it relatively easy to get promoted in FM. The difficult part is climbing into the top 3-4 clubs of the top league once you get there. I think FM19 is easy when playing clubs that are at your level or worse and quite difficult when you are trying to overcome big talent discrepancies.

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I find the game extremely easy and I can't remember the last time I had an unsuccessful save. But that's what 23 years playing the games relentlessly does to you.

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Echoing the two previous posts.  I feel like the hundreds of little decisions that you make being an experienced player of this game should lead you to success.  However, if you truly took on a squad that does not have the resources of the big boys, and force yourself to try and develop a team with youth and not just buying expensive experienced players, you may find it hard to keep your spot at the top.  I was having consistent success in Chile with a non-top tier team, winning almost everything, so I added a couple leagues and eventually got a job offer for Valencia.  The team was riddled with extremely expensive and worthless older players and I promised in the job interview to develop youth.  In year 2 I won the league and went far in the Champions Cup.  However, in year 3, with the team now strongly converted to younger players, I am barely able to stay in the top 6.

So basically, force yourself to make it more challenging but don't be surprised with the vast experience you have with the game, that you do well.  You should!

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Posted (edited)

I suppose it should go without saying but, anyway, always play with the fog of war enabled and start as a Sunday league player with no badges. As @chemik implied youth challenges are always difficult [well they are for me :D]

Edited by Hovis Dexter
Removed an extra war

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This has been the general consensus over the years, with the game getting easier & easier. Look at the threads of 10 years or more & they were full of threads of the game is too hard & unable to win. When in reality it meant it was the correct difficulty. Contrast with today, & threads about too hard game are extremely rare, & every career thread is about how you conquered the world with some tiny club. Game lacks any long term appeal, which is a shame as this used to be my most popular game by far. Only have good game by putting your own restrictions & rules in place.

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Use your own tactics don’t download somebody else’s.

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The game is as difficult as you want it to be.

If you want something difficult, then go manage a club in tier 6 with no aids and attribute masking on. Create your own tactics. 

Of course it is easy to take over a big 6 team, have full knowledge of players, download a game breaking tactic and then claim the game is too easy

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My issue with the game is the transfer system... it is far too easy to make loads of money, recycling players....

Recent example was PSG buying my centre back for £132m who was 4 stars.... and I bought there 21 year old 5 star potential  (3 star rating) for 26m....... £100m in bank and a better player.... in my sixth season and have over 1 billion in bank

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Yes of course, I agree that experience helps to achieve the success (i think, that I'm experienced player – I started 14 years ago in FM 2005). But in FM2019 it is the first time, that I easely win leagues from the beginning.
For example, when I played in FM 2017 as Avranches (3rd french league) manager I had to play 2 seasons before advance to Ligue 2. At the beginning of the first season in League 2 I lost most games and fought against relegation for the 1st halve of the season (finished in the middle of the table). I have to add, that in this time I had over a year of experience in this version of FM (2017).
Very similar was the situation in similar clubs in older versions of FM.
But in 2019... I bought thre game, tested a few days, learned new interface and started the career. Result? Winning french 3rd league a few matches before the end of the season. I bought only a few players and with almost the same squad as in 3rd league: 1st place in Ligue 2 sealed a few matches before the finish. Now, my team is preparing to their 1st season in Ligue 1 – core of the squad is still the same. I organized a few friendly tournaments with a lot of interesting results, for example: 2:1 contre PSG, 7:0 Feyenoord, 3:1 Ajax, 2:0 PSV – maybe friendly matches are simplier, i don't know – but the results are interesting.

I have to add, that I haven't tested other teams and other leagues, because I play always no more than one match a day, so my careers are very-very long (in french league for me one season = almost real 2 months), so I hadn't time to play other careers and test them.
And I have to confess, that due to reasons described above (my longest career lasted 14 months) I didn't buy each version of FM (so I can't be sure, that this year is the easiest of all FM).

About self - aggravations to make the game more challenging: I know that (for example) playing with only newgens will be more difficult than using expensive experienced players and I understand that our FM is only the game, used only for fun, not the real life. But, if I play in FM, I would like (as real managers in real football, in other sports and as in the real domains of my real life – and, I think, as most of FM users) to achieve the success using all available opportunities. For example I didn't see Lewis Hamilton driving backwards to make the rivalry in F1 more interesting.

About tactics: I found wide 4-2-3-1 gegenpress with some my modifications (personalized for used players) the most effective – so I mainly use it.

And, to finish my too lengthy text: probably you have the right that maybe the source of successes in the game is the reason, that FM2019 is the first version, which allow to observe influence of the tactics implemented by FM user - so maybe it is the best version ever.

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I tend to agree with the OP. My career started at level12 with an edited database. I got promoted 1st season and struggled a bit after that to get promoted again. You have to know that my playing fm is simultaneously to my work. Loading times take a lot longer with a db to level12 so I usually click on fm, work for 10min, fm again, work, click fm,.... You get the picture. So there are lots of games being played in the background while I'm working where I didn't do a sub or a shout because I wasn't even looking. 

Anyway, back to my career. I got a job at Blyth and improved their squad and position on the ladder, and I moved on.... to Wrexham. Same thing again, moved to Brentford, same thing again, moved to "cash loaded" Southampton. Won the Epl 3x out of 4 seasons with them. Moved to Spain and became World Cup winners. Now at Real Madrid and haven't conceded in the first 12 games. 

What I had experienced with other versions of fm, is that if you don't pay attention, you lose. With fm19, i can just set up the tactics once, and let the team play while I'm working and still come out on top. More often than not, I check fm and go like "oh, we're 2-0 up at half time" and press continue before I go back to work. 

So what I am saying is that I have to do less effort to get good results compared to previous versions. While this is great while I'm working, it also takes the fun out of the game if it becomes all too easy. 

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Gegen press tactic seems to be the key to success

In all my saves i'm using self made tactic based on gegen press football, cause i like this intensity IRL, and i'm always overachieving

Last experience is roughly the same than OP, i'm playing in French 3rd division with Marignane Gignac, a team expected to be relegated, i'm sitting 3rd in late december with transfers disabled

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I thought FM19 is hard, until I invented a killer 4-4-2 tactic. I'm now unbeaten in 30 matches (27 wins and 3 draws)... Won the league with Everton then moved to Frankfurt because I lost interest and won Bundesliga and the Cup in the very first season. I'm employing a strict financial tactics, only buying player with cash, no installments or additional fees. Although I work with strict budget I managed to sign number of quality players, mainly argentinians, whо are good enough to help me dominate Bundesliga. Still, I would prefer if the game wasn't so easy.

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il y a une heure, qazwsx a dit :

Sadly I must say that this will probably be my last version of FM, and I played it since the 1990's (CM in those days). And the reason is that it is not an interesting challenge anymore. I don't know the reason, if it is a decision by SI to make the game easy to increase sales or if it is because all these micromanaging we are able to do now make it even harder for the AI to compete. 

I thinks it is sad that people are forced to make up artificial challenges , using only youth players or whatever, to get the game more enjoyable. It's quite odd actually, we are reading daily that AI will take over the world, and in this game the AI seems to be more stupid each year.

The main concern for me is most of all AI which is completely failing at teambuulding, and i guess it's the trickiest part to code for SI

I can't count saves where a particular team is stockpiling players at a specific position, spending silly money and did not give them a single start

Same goes for teams buying players to the human manager

We (human managers) will always have a large advantage regarding team building, that's one of the reason why most of us are over achieving as well

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It's easier, but that's not because the game has been made any easier in the sense of the AI. each iteration allows you to do more tactically, and the average user (this is a generalisation given how big the fanbase) will, and arguably should, be able to outmanouver the AI on and off the pitch. It's multi faceted as to why it, but ultimately anything that improves accessibility for the user compounds the advantage they already have over the AI, so youre essentially out stripping AI development, especially as there no "rubber banding" within the AI.

It's the trickiest bit to code but also has to be, and is, one the priorities each time, particularly off the field, the AI needs to be sharper in the market. But again, human players will always gave the advantage, all things being equal. Key is to make that advantage feel as small as possible, but not using rubber banding. Good luck with that devs :D

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6 hours ago, nico_france said:

The main concern for me is most of all AI which is completely failing at teambuulding, and i guess it's the trickiest part to code for SI

I can't count saves where a particular team is stockpiling players at a specific position, spending silly money and did not give them a single start

Same goes for teams buying players to the human manager

We (human managers) will always have a large advantage regarding team building, that's one of the reason why most of us are over achieving as well

 

I agree, team building is the key.

But should team building really be that tricky to code when compared to the match engine? Every manager in the game have a preferred tactic style and to make a template what positions are needed and what positions that are important for that particular style should not be that complicated to create. And they have been working on this for a quarter of a century or more and those working with it is very talented and smart people. And still you may move to a new club and have not one player able to play left fullback but there are seven strikers. No wonder the previous guy got sacked!

And then there is the match engine that, according to me at least, gets better and better with each release. And the ME should be really tricky to get right but somehow SI make steady improvements. 

I may be stupid but I can't understand why SI don't make a real effort to get the team building right. There are only two alternatives but I can't make up my mind which is the correct one:

1) It's a conscious decision where SI wants the game to be easy, they know their customers and the majority is very happy indeed winning Champions League with Halifax. To make the AI teams unable to build teams based on common sense is a way to make sure the customers will return and buy the next version. 

2) They are unable to code the team building part of the game. They are really trying each and every year but fail all the time. 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's easier, but that's not because the game has been made any easier in the sense of the AI. each iteration allows you to do more tactically, and the average user (this is a generalisation given how big the fanbase) will, and arguably should, be able to outmanouver the AI on and off the pitch. It's multi faceted as to why it, but ultimately anything that improves accessibility for the user compounds the advantage they already have over the AI, so youre essentially out stripping AI development, especially as there no "rubber banding" within the AI.

It's the trickiest bit to code but also has to be, and is, one the priorities each time, particularly off the field, the AI needs to be sharper in the market. But again, human players will always gave the advantage, all things being equal. Key is to make that advantage feel as small as possible, but not using rubber banding. Good luck with that devs :D

Perhaps the starting point should be making it much harder for human managers to take their pick of (and stockpile) world class players when managing any half decent top flight club. This also goes for the abundance of wonderkids that the AI seem to ignore, whom you can sign completely uncontested. This is compounded by making it far too easy to retain these players when they become elite. It should also be much harder to offload players on high wages. Just look at the problems Man Utd and Arsenal have right now. This is simply not reflected in the game world.

And of course when you assemble this team and deploy them in a high LOE / counter-press system, you simply win everything. This is the cookie cutter approach of almost all of the most watched online series.

Edited by rdbayly

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1 minute ago, rdbayly said:

Perhaps the starting point should be making it much harder for human managers to take their pick of (and stockpile) world class players when managing any half decent top flight club. This also goes for the abundance of wonderkids that the AI seem to ignore, whom you sign completely uncontested. This is compounded by making it far too easy to retain these players when they become elite. It should also be much harder to offload players on high wages. Just look at the problems Man Utd and Arsenal have right now. This is simply not reflected in the game world.

There's zero point in making anything arbitrarily harder or easier, though. That doesn't solve anything. That's the great difficulty: making it all feel organic. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

There's zero point in making anything arbitrarily harder or easier, though. That doesn't solve anything. That's the great difficulty: making it all feel organic. 

There is nothing arbitrary about reality though, which this game prides itself on being based on.

It simply isn’t realistic to be able to attract the quality of player it is possible to sign in the game world.

For example, barring one or two exceptions, quality players (and more importantly than ever, their agents) will settle for nothing less than champions league football. They will hold out until they get the move they want. In game there is no such barrier. Certainly not in the saves I’ve played.

Edited by rdbayly

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Posted (edited)

Whilst it's not as easy as this: Not having to consider 20 years old CPUs may also lift the Code (and AI (transfer) complexity considerations) of quite some burden… The baseline requirements on the CPU front between FM 2019 and FM 2009 look eerily similar, btw.  SI staff IIRC have already expressed a couple of times that this puts a "strain" on considerations. Which is naturally still their valid choice, the Benefit being that just About any machine still in use  can technically run the game at least "decently" (at least with a small database).

Edited by Svenc

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1 minute ago, rdbayly said:

There is nothing arbitrary about reality though, which this game prides itself on being based on.

It simply isn’t realistic to be able to attract the quality of player it is possible to sign in the game world.

For example, barring one or two exceptions, quality players (and more importantly than ever, their agents) want champion league football. They will hold out until they get the move they want. In game there is no such barrier. Certainly not in the saves I’ve played.

So how do you organically define who is going to go where, in a dynamic market?

See even the bold isn't necessarily accurate reflection of everyday players, and there's so much more to it in any given transfer, that you couldn't simply force it that way

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4 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Whilst it's not as easy as this: Not having to consider 20 years old CPUs may also lift the Code (and AI (transfer) complexity) of quite some burden… The baseline requirements on the CPU front between FM 2019 and FM 2009 look eerily similar, btw. 

This is also another part of the puzzle too, given how much of the target audience play on considerably lower spec machines

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It's not team building the main issue here. It's ME. I've come up with a 4-4-2 tactic which is insanely good. I'm unbeaten in 25 matches and I'm just starting my second season with Eintrach Frankfurt. It's not that they have team building issues. Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Leipzig all have better players than me, but my tactics make them look amateurs.

https://gyazo.com/8da4418746462fcf533faa15536e1bce

https://gyazo.com/706b3abc3086f4d5e45280e7b548d220

https://gyazo.com/1a89201eb6502f9450c008158a7fb474

It's just way to easy with certain tactics.

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This isn't to pour scorn on what you're saying by the way rdbayly, just highlighting the difficulty trying to set any kind of hard and fast rule.

As Svenc points out, its easier said than done, but processing, and its current limits given user base specs is a real factor. I'll have to dig it out sometime, but its something that's been mentioned before.

At some point its going to have to take a big leaps, but has to be done without losing huge swathes of the user base.

I'd argue SI need to make some kind of long term announcement

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27 minutes ago, Haiku said:

It's not team building the main issue here. It's ME. I've come up with a 4-4-2 tactic which is insanely good. I'm unbeaten in 25 matches and I'm just starting my second season with Eintrach Frankfurt. It's not that they have team building issues. Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Leipzig all have better players than me, but my tactics make them look amateurs.

https://gyazo.com/8da4418746462fcf533faa15536e1bce

https://gyazo.com/706b3abc3086f4d5e45280e7b548d220

https://gyazo.com/1a89201eb6502f9450c008158a7fb474

It's just way to easy with certain tactics.

 

It's likely also in parts AI related. My Impression has always been that a decent amount of players prefer the game that way, actually. At least to an extent. Even Players that prefer a Closer link between "Team ability" and results seem to be Looking for clear signs of Advantage over Opposition. A lot of Football is inherently random (much more so than perceived), which apart of the ultra low scoring nature of it all (and seconds of 90 minutes every week deciding between winner and loser), also has to do with that Players/Mangers on their respective Level roughly see eye to eye. 

Yet, if you'd take a look into your team Reports screen, look for "shot conversion" numbers and compare that to AI, I'm sure you'll likely find seasonal Advantages here you won't find in Football anywhere (f'r instance, when Man City won the EPL in 2018, they had converted 16% of their shots into Goals, whilst the EPL averages were 10%; and top teams also can't Sustain conversions of 15+% in real Football from Season to season). Football is a game of slight margins -- and even the margin between a Winning and losing run can be small. Yet, whenever Players on this game are faced with a losing run, they panic, ragequit or start another save. My Impression anyways. :P And quite another Story for another thread.

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... and here  Iwas thinking I'd finally got my head around the game and had become quite good at it.

:ackter:

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10 hours ago, Svenc said:

 

It's likely also in parts AI related. My Impression has always been that a decent amount of players prefer the game that way, actually. At least to an extent. Even Players that prefer a Closer link between "Team ability" and results seem to be Looking for clear signs of Advantage over Opposition. A lot of Football is inherently random (much more so than perceived), which apart of the ultra low scoring nature of it all (and seconds of 90 minutes every week deciding between winner and loser), also has to do with that Players/Mangers on their respective Level roughly see eye to eye. 

Yet, if you'd take a look into your team Reports screen, look for "shot conversion" numbers and compare that to AI, I'm sure you'll likely find seasonal Advantages here you won't find in Football anywhere (f'r instance, when Man City won the EPL in 2018, they had converted 16% of their shots into Goals, whilst the EPL averages were 10%; and top teams also can't Sustain conversions of 15+% in real Football from Season to season). Football is a game of slight margins -- and even the margin between a Winning and losing run can be small. Yet, whenever Players on this game are faced with a losing run, they panic, ragequit or start another save. My Impression anyways. :P And quite another Story for another thread.

Shot conversion % seems fine on my end. Here are the seasonal results in Bundesliga:

https://gyazo.com/0971fd2560d3a4da0db1a4e6c00661bf

Shots on target though are on the high.

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20 hours ago, nico_france said:

I can't count saves where a particular team is stockpiling players at a specific position, spending silly money and did not give them a single start

Yeah, this happens all the time. In my current save I sold Sigurdsson to Man United for £60m and they hardly play him at all so he's just at the club on the transfer list with huge wages so no one will buy him...

Bernard, £80m to Chelsea, same thing. Bruno Fernandes £90m to Man City, same thing.

That's just my players... So many other examples like Zaha £50m to City, same thing... By a 5-6 seasons in the AI squads are often a little all over the place giving the human player even more edge.

It's always been an issue, even right back to the old CM games and I'm always a little disappointed each year when it doesn't appear to be even close to being fixed. But I do understand the difficulty coding this type of AI across such a vast simulation.

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On my save, Man Utd a stockpiling left backs. They bought Alex Telles for 35m and he only played 3 matches the whole season. That's because they got Alex Grimaldo and Luke Shaw. Not sure why they thought they need another top level left back.

https://gyazo.com/083406008601bdf30cb304fd10764dd0

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Haiku said:

Shot conversion % seems fine on my end. Here are the seasonal results in Bundesliga:

https://gyazo.com/0971fd2560d3a4da0db1a4e6c00661bf

Shots on target though are on the high.

Yeah, that's not that high -- looks like you've still got a game to Play rather than to lulz the AI/ME and hit the space bar -- consistently conversions in the aforementioned range are possible, technically. (How About the Forward/s goalscorer/s in Isolation though compared to the AI's). 

That said, the easier the game makes the tactical parts for the AI also, the more competitive it will become. I still maintain that it would Benefit greatly if the game would Focus on "sensible" tactical match Management and decisions, as opposed to potentially harmful Micro tweaks. So much harmful nonsense you and the AI can still do, which also has Little to do with semi/pro management. Probably not everybody would like that though…. 

 

Edited by Svenc

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12 hours ago, Haiku said:

On my save, Man Utd a stockpiling left backs. They bought Alex Telles for 35m and he only played 3 matches the whole season. That's because they got Alex Grimaldo and Luke Shaw. Not sure why they thought they need another top level left back.

https://gyazo.com/083406008601bdf30cb304fd10764dd0

This sounds like it could be a bug worthy of investigation to me. Even it turns out not to be, a reaction to an injury perhaps, we'll only know from having a dig around. When you come across these examples, if you could take the time to open up a post in our Transfers bug section that would be greatly appreciated.

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So apparently I'm the only one struggling.  Got promoted with Middlesbrough after two seasons.  Currently 16 games into the Premier League season and have managed a whopping 6 points so far!!

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21 hours ago, Robioto said:

Yeah, this happens all the time. In my current save I sold Sigurdsson to Man United for £60m and they hardly play him at all so he's just at the club on the transfer list with huge wages so no one will buy him...

Bernard, £80m to Chelsea, same thing. Bruno Fernandes £90m to Man City, same thing.

That's just my players... So many other examples like Zaha £50m to City, same thing... By a 5-6 seasons in the AI squads are often a little all over the place giving the human player even more edge.

It's always been an issue, even right back to the old CM games and I'm always a little disappointed each year when it doesn't appear to be even close to being fixed. But I do understand the difficulty coding this type of AI across such a vast simulation.

It's crazy yes, but this has never really bothered me because that's exactly what your Man Citys and Real Madrids do all the time IRL.  A bigger problem is how those teams actually use those players in their tactical setup. Big AI teams stockpile world class strikers and AMC's, and then end up playing the strikers as wingers (even ML and MR positions) and AMC's who can't defend to save their lives in holding midfield positions. As a prime example, my Dulwich Hamlet side just beat Man City in the Champions League quarter finals 10-2 on aggregate. They played a 4-2-3-1 with Kai Havertz and and a regen AMC as their holding CM pair, allowing our much more physical ANC-MEZ(A)-DLP(S) midfield trio in a 4-1-2-3 to completely dominate proceedings in both matches.  

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i went from Serie C with Reggina Calcio to Serie A in 2 seasons. After that i got 3.place 2 times in row. 2023 i was the Champion + CL half final. Lost TIM CUP final against my cousin who also went from serie C to serie A in 2 seasons

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IMO the only way to genuinely struggle is by accidentally choosing the "wrong" tactical setup, often by following the utterly confusing Green Circles. Or by picking the more "underpowered" combination of mentality/style/formation.

Other than that, if you keep things sensible, the human advantage over a very mechanic and stunted AI, is way too big.

It's not just that AI clubs waste big money on players they don't need... They also don't sign decent prospects (unless they're wonderkids ready for senior football at 17) and, worse of all, they don't seem to work renewals and free transfers.
I've lost track of how many good-to-great EPL players I managed to sign for lower-quality (think 6th-10th place) clubs on a free transfer or as Bosman players, because their Top Club didn't bother to offer them a new contract and other AI clubs didn't bother to scoop them up for free!

I've been saying that for years: the old, now-rudimentary CA+PA+Reputation system has to go. Or at least has to be refined so much it won't be recognizable anymore.

Once THAT has been sorted out and AI clubs now operate with a modicum of common sense, we can go back debating plug-and-play tactics, gegenpress, duties, roles and green circles. But until then, it's all about Man United splashing 60M on an obscure Brazilian kid who hasn't played a second of in-game football, while they allow a couple of rotation options to leave for free. And instead of half of EPL and Europe's Top Clubs racing to sign them, human managers can take their sweet time before signing them for Torino, Werder or Deportivo...

 

P.S. Self-imposed rules and artificial difficulty are a defeat for everyone... It's like showing up drunk at work because you're so much better than your coworkers you don't want them to look bad... They are still lazy/crappy workers, you look (and feel) awful too, so nobody really gains much.

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Posted (edited)

AI transfer activity isn't the only problem, but for me the main problem is, that my players are too good.
As I wrote at start of this topic I'm managing Avranches – small french club and during 2 seasons I advanced from 3rd to 1st league. I'm still using modified 4-2-3-1 gegenpress tactics. I started my season in Ligue 1 and in 3 matches I achieved 2 very good results (2:2 in Lyon and I won 2:0 in Nice). I know that such results are possible in reality and I know that my tactics is recognized on this forum as effective, but I think, that it shouldn't be effective against big teams. As I observe real football: it is possible that small team beat big club but mainly using deffensive tactics – modified exactly for more powerful opponent. But I - I modified my tactics to be even more offensive that default. I think that using this tactics against big team in reality should be total disaster – it should be suicide for my team.

And I have to add, that average player in average club in Ligue 2 is better (as I see at attributes, wage and value) that my average player - i'm playing in Ligue 1. I have in my team the player on loan, who is the star in my team, but he is loaned from reserves of League 2 team.
And my team is extremely effective in quality-cost ratio: for example Radamel Falcao in Monaco earns (alone) more a week, than my whole team (together – including first team, youngsters and reserves) a month.

Edited by talvikko

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I come at this question from a different angle, in no version do I bother with training, tactics, scouting.. any of that fluff. I load up the save I want to play, then pick the games default 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and play it from there. Everything else I assign to my AI staff, who in turn are appointed by the Chairman/DoF.

All I do is buy/sell, do contract renewals.. click play and have Commentary only on full speed and rattle off games as quick as I can. No team talks, subs only if forced or if a player is <6 in AVG, no tactical changes at any time.

Now in earlier versions this provided a bit more of a challenge, I think the games default tactics were 'worse' or at least the AI could handle them. Id eventually get success and sometimes get earlier success just because the game is random like that. But this year, I seem to be getting success instantly and it feels a bit hollow because of that.

So for me, its not as challenging and in turn rewarding as the game has been. I think for me, once you get a winning team, its hard for you to lose that and drop off to any great extent.

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2 hours ago, bestbrother said:

I come at this question from a different angle, in no version do I bother with training, tactics, scouting.. any of that fluff. I load up the save I want to play, then pick the games default 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and play it from there. Everything else I assign to my AI staff, who in turn are appointed by the Chairman/DoF.

All I do is buy/sell, do contract renewals.. click play and have Commentary only on full speed and rattle off games as quick as I can. No team talks, subs only if forced or if a player is <6 in AVG, no tactical changes at any time.

Now in earlier versions this provided a bit more of a challenge, I think the games default tactics were 'worse' or at least the AI could handle them. Id eventually get success and sometimes get earlier success just because the game is random like that. But this year, I seem to be getting success instantly and it feels a bit hollow because of that.

Prior versions didn't have a "Default" 4-4-2 or anything. This year, with the presets, it kinda has, so it makes sense if your experience is a tad more, er, stable than before. Tbh, I'm not sure what SI are trying to do with the tactical parts of the game Long-term. Are they Catering to Players who are Looking for "Winning formulas"? Are Players meant to achieve big time an Edge over Opposition if they're "good"? Or are they trying to simulate an Environment in which tactical decisions tend to shift the odds a few (as in actual Football). That's a genuine question to ask, as the answer will drive the entire design of the game -- that is, on the tactical and match day simulation front. Given that lots of SI staffers run saves themselves in their spare time, they must have their own preferences as well.

 

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2 hours ago, Svenc said:

Prior versions didn't have a "Default" 4-4-2 or anything. This year, with the presets, it kinda has, so it makes sense if your experience is a tad more, er, stable than before. Tbh, I'm not sure what SI are trying to do with the tactical parts of the game Long-term. Are they Catering to Players who are Looking for "Winning formulas"? Are Players meant to achieve big time an Edge over Opposition if they're "good"? Or are they trying to simulate an Environment in which tactical decisions tend to shift the odds a few (as in actual Football). That's a genuine question to ask, as the answer will drive the entire design of the game -- that is, on the tactical and match day simulation front. Given that lots of SI staffers run saves themselves in their spare time, they must have their own preferences as well.

 

They did have a 4-4-2, all FMs have had base formations to pick from. I know there was a 4-4-2 because I use it nearly all the time. Granted it might have some silly image of a shirt a little bit more forward or back.. but to me its a 4-4-2.

Maybe they have done something different with the game this year, idk, I barely look at the tactic screen other than to go into it and select 4-4-2 :D

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21 minutes ago, bestbrother said:

They did have a 4-4-2, all FMs have had base formations to pick from. I know there was a 4-4-2 because I use it nearly all the time. Granted it might have some silly image of a shirt a little bit more forward or back.. but to me its a 4-4-2.

Maybe they have done something different with the game this year, idk, I barely look at the tactic screen other than to go into it and select 4-4-2 :D

reading both of your posts and the way you play the game, begs the question if FM is the right game for you.  Of course the way you play the game is entirely up to you, but you seem to be missing out on a large part of FM and there are simpler football manager games out there, a lot are free downloads

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11 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

reading both of your posts and the way you play the game, begs the question if FM is the right game for you.  Of course the way you play the game is entirely up to you, but you seem to be missing out on a large part of FM and there are simpler football manager games out there, a lot are free downloads

Its fine for me, does what it always has.. play Champ, like I always played Champ.

The rest of the stuff is nice for some people, its filler or fluff to me... but I need the database and realism that the game provides in its world of things I do use.

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Yes, FM19 is easier than prior editions. The game is far from perfect,  it feels quite random at times, and not totally realistic...

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I tried to compare FM2017 today with FM2019 (I have both installed on my computer). I played a match in every version and unfortunately I have to say that I think 2017 is better, so I'm thinking about going back to this version.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, bestbrother said:

They did have a 4-4-2, all FMs have had base formations to pick from. 

A Formation has always been that, a formation. If you pick a "pre-set" on FM 2019, it goes a good step further than just Picking a Formation. After all , in Football too, formations are but formations. What happens with those during different stages of Play/transitions can hugely differ, and can do such in-game too.

17 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

reading both of your posts and the way you play the game, begs the question if FM is the right game for you.  Of course the way you play the game is entirely up to you, but you seem to be missing out on a large part of FM and there are simpler football manager games out there, a lot are free downloads

I wouldn't say that. There are and have been numerous Managers in the past who hired bonafide tactical assistants, either because of their admitted apathy towards it all (Rijkaard at Barca) or their limitations (Klinsmann as German national Team Manager). 

Whether the game ever implements such is up to SI. As any assistant is AI, it would greatly Benefit of improved tactical AI in General, so win-win for everybody…. First of all I'd personally Long-term still revamp the entire tactical Gameplay away from potentially nonsensical Micro-tweaking, to one where all Managers involved make Logical, coherent, holistic "Football" decisions. The result would be a game that was less About teaching Players and rewarding Team Sports Basics, and more about judging -- and misjudging situations.

Would likely make balancing the ME also a good deal easier, and also make it easier for different styles of Play and strategic decisions to Shine more. Similar to when SI ditched the free-form slider tweaking in favor of "Player roles", some of which behavior wasn't possible before. The entire tactical download subforum alone is filled with so much trash, it'd be a Miracle if Players didn'T report lots of analomies (too many Long shots, etc. etc.) even if this were REAL Football, and Right on my first ever randomly watched FM19 AI vs AI Matches I watched at least some stuff that looked pretty suspect.

Edited by Svenc

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32 minutes ago, Svenc said:

A Formation has always been that, a formation. If you pick a "pre-set" on FM 2019, it goes a good step further than just Picking a Formation. After all , in Football too, formations are but formations. What happens with those during different stages of Play/transitions can hugely differ, and can do such in-game too.

Probably does, but I dont care nor look at anything in terms of instructions or player roles. Dont need to and never will. Just click 4-4-2 when I load up the game, then ignore that screen until matchday and pick my 11. I do the absolute bare minimum in FM. Im even that lazy that I will not make a tactical change when getting a Red Card, unless its a keeper. Other than that I just let the team plough on and get on with it :D

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11 minutes ago, bestbrother said:

Probably does, but I dont care nor look at anything in terms of instructions or player roles. Dont need to and never will. Just click 4-4-2 when I load up the game, then ignore that screen until matchday and pick my 11. I do the absolute bare minimum in FM. Im even that lazy that I will not make a tactical change when getting a Red Card, unless its a keeper. Other than that I just let the team plough on and get on with it :D

If only Looping were still around. @herne79 ;):D 

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Can you please stop saying the game is too easy? It makes me feel really bad, I couldn't pull off a decent tactic if my life depended on it. Occasionally I put something together that seems to work OK for a game or two, but then I get trashed 0-5 with 3-31 in shots. 

Roles, duties, player instructions, team instructions.. It's sooo complex to get everything right. 😕

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