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Posted (edited)

Perhaps my novice familiarity with FM19's tactics and training is my issue. I'm in just my first season by the way. But I've played Football Manager since the 2012 version, if that matters. To be honest, my frustration with the gargantuan complexity of FM19 might be why I have 8 -- yes, I said EIGHT! -- of my starters injured, including the preseason injuries with Koscielny, Maitland-Niles, Kolasinac, and Lichtsteiner(?), then other injury-prone players that whine about a Medium-to-Light training workload when the (non-stop?) Fixture congestion between the EPL, two domestic cups, and Europa League is more suited for a 40-50 man Senior registered roster!!! Well, that might be a slight exaggeration. I'll address that when UEFA's Aleksander Čeferin and FA's Prince William return my calls. ;) Anyway, enough of my whining, right?

No matter what I try/coach or what I have tried to tell my self-aggrandizing Wing-backs or Full-backs who think they can cross with an Attribute of 12 or less, nor HOW MANY TIMES I tell them -- or select in any Tactics > In Possession, whether it's Very Attacking, Attacking, Positive, or Balanced, AND Individually tell them "CROSS LESS OFTEN DAMN IT!!!" -- they persist in bludgeoning their opponent/opposite!!!! I swear on my grandmother's BDSM dungeon, I think Bellerin, Monreal, and whomever else I must rotate in... they have to be freaky Sadists!!! :mad:

Yes, I have already requested that my Wing-backs/Full-backs IMPROVE their crossing ability in the vague, General Technical Attacking Training Unit, but that takes more than 1-2 months for only an increase in Crossing of what(?), 1 or 2 points per 5-8 week intervals? Is it my novice knowledge of the hyper-complex FM19, or is there something else much more practical that can be done to STOP MY WING/FULL BACKS from pummeling non-stop their defensive opponent!? Please? Help? I must stop this 1937 radio-voice in my head constantly crying...

Quote

...and it's crashing! It's crashing terrible! Oh, my! Get out of the way, please! This is terrible; this is one of the worst catastrophes in the world. Oh ladies and gentlemen, it is all going so horribly wrong! OH THE HUMANITY!!! -- Herbert Morrison, May 6, 1937, Manchester Township, New Jersey

Back to our programming here, can anyone suggest a solution to STOP my crappy WB's and FB's from their sadistic habits? Many thanks! :)

Edited by Poonin
More accurate info

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post a screenshot of your tactic so we can figure out why it may be happening

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Hello NabsKebabs. Thanks for responding.

Below are my two Tactics. First the Primary Tactic, then my Secondary Tactic. FYI, I do tweak them a bit depending on the opposition and the health/conditioning of my squad. I hope I upload these screen-shots correctly. Here goes...

 

4-4-2 Vertical Tiki-Taka.html 4-2-3-1 Wide Balanced.html

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Not sure what they are.  Should be jpg/png type images rather than html?  Just do Print Screen, paste into Paint (or whatever image program) and save.

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Cannot tell you what's the exact cause of your crossing issue(s) until you post a screenshot of your tactic(s). But generally speaking, players tend to do things they've been told not to do when they lack other/better/safer options (and this pertains to both crossing and shooting). Tempo, in combination with mentality, can also contribute to more crossing (and speculative distribution of the ball in general). In narrow systems - where FBs/WBs are the only wide players - they naturally tend to cross more than otherwise, but given that you play 442 and 4231, the problem lies somewhere else.

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Try the following, one or both of them, I'd probably go both.

- Take fewer risks

- Sit narrower

Be aware that at least one of these (I think the first one) will be annulled if you have your players on an attacking mentality.

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3 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

Try the following, one or both of them, I'd probably go both.

- Take fewer risks

- Sit narrower

Be aware that at least one of these (I think the first one) will be annulled if you have your players on an attacking mentality.

Sit Narrower definitely helps. I think Rashidi said it encourages players to pass inside more. 

Personally, I rarely use anything other than FB(S), WB(D) or IWB(S) because I've run into the same frustrations.

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summatsupeer, Experience Defender, Lord Rowell, and andrewsgn, many thanks to all of you for the help! Alright, trying my Print Screen issue again... here goes.

485540893_442DiamondVertT-T.thumb.png.d648b9876386b82bfbdad4d1e3cb7bad.png 469477380_4231WTiki-Taka.thumb.png.00cce52bc23f4c8c35ff90c0bf44a4bc.png

HAH! Finally! There you go gentlemen.

So does this shed more light? Also, I think I may have hurt Nacho Monreal's and Hector Bellerin's feelings when I asked them if they get their thrills off of pounding, blasting, drilling, forcing, and ball-fisting their opponent -- do they do that in Spain? -- when CLEARLY a football NEVER magically passes through a human body, no matter how many times you try!!!! They didn't seem to find my humor appealing for some reason. :rolleyes: Hah!

Okay, thanks guys for whatever assistance you can provide. I do appreciate it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Poonin said:

485540893_442DiamondVertT-T.thumb.png.d648b9876386b82bfbdad4d1e3cb7bad.png

Well, this one is not a standard 442, but narrow diamond. So I already explained a part of the reason for your crossing issue: 

 

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In narrow systems - where FBs/WBs are the only wide players - they naturally tend to cross more than otherwise

But apart from the fullbacks crossing too much (for your liking), there are a number of other elements that I don't like in this tactic. Most of these come from the preset tiki-taka tactic, which - like some other presets - is full of overkills. And on top of that, what's the point of playing both strikers on attack duty in a possession-based tactic? Finally, to answer your initial question - the most likely reason for your fullbacks crossing too much in this case is mentality, in addition to being sole players on the flanks. And given that Arsenal is a top team against which most opponents will sit deep and pack the middle areas, I can assume that in most cases there is too little space in the final third for the fullbacks to have enough options other than crossing. And then you made it even worse by this extremely aggressive tactic. At least half of your TIs are either wrong or completely unnecessary.

 

1 hour ago, Poonin said:

469477380_4231WTiki-Taka.thumb.png.00cce52bc23f4c8c35ff90c0bf44a4bc.png

The key problem with this 4231 tactic is its one-dimensionality along with the isolation of the lone striker (the only player on attack duty, and AF at that). And once again - an overkill of instructions. Plus, the tactic is too sterile attacking-wise for a top team like Arsenal (low tempo and short passing coupled with Balanced mentality and only one attack duty in the entire setup).

Edited by Experienced Defender

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442 Diamond.

Take a step back and look at what your asking your players to do through your roles, duties and instructions:

  1. 3 Playmakers trying to get on the ball in the middle, Focus Play Through Middle and Look For Underlap and Narrow... wheres the space in the middle when everyone is narrow?  You have lots going on in there but how are they going to have space and choices?
  2. Both forwards on attack on Attacking mentality, they're both pretty much going to sit on defenders shoulders and both do the same things most of the time.  Again no variety, no one creating space for the other.
  3. Furthermore with the Attacking Mentality, even with Slightly Lower Tempo and Slightly Shorter Passing, they're told to take risks.  What risks are Kolasinac and Bellerin going to take when they're out wide with the ball?  Are they going to take a safe lateral/backwards pass when told to be risky?  You've also given them Be More Expressive which gives them more freedom to do something different from there instructions more often...

Even if the tactic was modified, look at the players used.  Do Kolasinac and Bellerin have the attributes to see (Vision) options, then decide to do it?  Do there traits make them always end up high+wide and potentially isolated so can't do anything but try and get ball into box.

 

4231 has same instructional issues but the roles are a bit better and less extreme mentality might allow for more recycling of possession. But its very wing heavy using two WBs and two Wingers.  Maybe try FB/WB-De or IWB-De/Su on flank with a winger and have the other winger become a IF/RMD, but just because he's coming inside doesn't mean you need a WB, have him deep/inside then won't end up in a position he has to cross.  Still need to consider the players used, if they end up in position to cross due to there traits and don't see any other options because of there attributes (or tactic) then they will.

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By and large in agreement with the posters above.  The diamond lacks any kind of width really.  Don't really see how the underlapping helps that set up.

Similar with the 4231 using the 'very narrow' TI.  As post above suggests try and review the roles out wide.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, this one is not a standard 442, but narrow diamond. So I already explained a part of the reason for your crossing issue: 

 

But apart from the fullbacks crossing too much (for your liking), there are a number of other elements that I don't like in this tactic. Most of these come from the preset tiki-taka tactic, which - like some other presets - is full of overkills. And on top of that, what's the point of playing both strikers on attack duty in a possession-based tactic? Finally, to answer your initial question - the most likely reason for your fullbacks crossing too much in this case is mentality, in addition to being sole players on the flanks. And given that Arsenal is a top team against which most opponents will sit deep and pack the middle areas, I can assume that in most cases there is too little space in the final third for the fullbacks to have enough options other than crossing. And then you made it even worse by this extremely aggressive tactic. At least half of your TIs are either wrong or completely unnecessary.

 

The key problem with this 4231 tactic is its one-dimensionality along with the isolation of the lone striker (the only player on attack duty, and AF at that). And once again - an overkill of instructions. Plus, the tactic is too sterile attacking-wise for a top team like Arsenal (low tempo and short passing coupled with Balanced mentality and only one attack duty in the entire setup).

--- Experienced Defender... thank you for the assessment and advice. Will definitely reconsider all this and make some tweaks. Much appreciated!

 

Edited by Poonin
Merely aesthetics.

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19 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

442 Diamond.

Take a step back and look at what your asking your players to do through your roles, duties and instructions:

  1. 3 Playmakers trying to get on the ball in the middle, Focus Play Through Middle and Look For Underlap and Narrow... wheres the space in the middle when everyone is narrow?  You have lots going on in there but how are they going to have space and choices?
  2. Both forwards on attack on Attacking mentality, they're both pretty much going to sit on defenders shoulders and both do the same things most of the time.  Again no variety, no one creating space for the other.
  3. Furthermore with the Attacking Mentality, even with Slightly Lower Tempo and Slightly Shorter Passing, they're told to take risks.  What risks are Kolasinac and Bellerin going to take when they're out wide with the ball?  Are they going to take a safe lateral/backwards pass when told to be risky?  You've also given them Be More Expressive which gives them more freedom to do something different from there instructions more often...

Even if the tactic was modified, look at the players used.  Do Kolasinac and Bellerin have the attributes to see (Vision) options, then decide to do it?  Do there traits make them always end up high+wide and potentially isolated so can't do anything but try and get ball into box.

 

4231 has same instructional issues but the roles are a bit better and less extreme mentality might allow for more recycling of possession. But its very wing heavy using two WBs and two Wingers.  Maybe try FB/WB-De or IWB-De/Su on flank with a winger and have the other winger become a IF/RMD, but just because he's coming inside doesn't mean you need a WB, have him deep/inside then won't end up in a position he has to cross.  Still need to consider the players used, if they end up in position to cross due to there traits and don't see any other options because of there attributes (or tactic) then they will.

---- summatsupeer... thank you very much! Just by reading yours and Experienced Defender I can see that you two obviously understand the Sports Interactive software programming, the module/mechanics of all the working parts. Thank you for this great help. I only started playing FM19 this past late-May/June. I must admit, FM19 is much more complicated than my FM16 and FM12, the two I've played WAY TOO MANY HOURS of my life!!! Hahahaha. Nevertheless, this is great info and much appreciated. Cheers!

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

By and large in agreement with the posters above.  The diamond lacks any kind of width really.  Don't really see how the underlapping helps that set up.

Similar with the 4231 using the 'very narrow' TI.  As post above suggests try and review the roles out wide.

Yes Robson 07, I agree. I've determined -- with yours, summatsupeer's, and Exp Defender's assessments and suggestions -- that I need a much more intimate understanding of all the many, MANY various mentalities, tactical choices, roles, team & individual instructions, etc, etc, etc, then matching in the most effective way all of those multiple (endless?) modules/cogs, if you will, THEN tweak all of that with current injuries! HAH! Is it any wonder why I spent way, WAY TOO MANY HOURS of my life playing FM12 and FM16? Now this!?

Hmmm, you think this is why I don't have much of a social life? Maybe? :lol: Many thanks Robson 07!

Edited by Poonin
Proper grammar & syntax.

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In terms of crossing, especially in players stupidly hit the ball into defenders instead of looking for cut back passes or go for the 1v1. There might be a bug or at least poorly designed interactions. In terms of crossing stats the game will also count feekicks and corners as crosses. I'm not sure if you can play around this issue entirely as long as you stick to wide play. Defenitly helps to tell your full backs to stay closer to midfield or even chose a IWB.

Best advice i can give you to not keep tinkering around with it too much, as long as your results are fine as it is not really game breaking.

 

 

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On 07/07/2019 at 16:53, CARRERA said:

I'm not sure if you can play around this issue entirely as long as you stick to wide play. Defenitly helps to tell your full backs to stay closer to midfield or even chose a IWB.

Carrera -- Thank you very much for this. Since I haven't been playing FM19 very long (only about 2-3 mons) I presumed it was mostly MY OWN naivety of all the mechanisms and endless choices/tweaks between the gazillion various tactical & individual instructions. If interrupted during play, I'd quickly forget what I've done there are so many! THEN add to this Cosmic-size info/data your Assistant or Offensive Coach's advice, and I was about to hire a live human Assistant JUST to keep everything organized and straight!!! :lol: Wow, I would think if Sports Interactive make this game any more complex and massive, the Technical Requirements will require the power of a Super Quantum computer!!!! :eek:

Nevertheless, some of the advice the previous respondents have shared have helped -- forced me to take a long time out and learn more intimately the Library of Congress of FM19 game tactics/instructions, etc. I feel like I am well on my way to ACTUALLY managing a Premier League club, or at least the U.S. Men's National Team, eh!? If one manages several successful seasons in an elite, world-class league and club..... doesn't that qualify us for a REAL HUMAN interview with the club's Board of Directors? At the very least graduating Magna Cum Laude with a FIFA Continental Pro License!? ;)

Changing my outside backs to IWB.... that might be an excellent idea! Thank you Carrera!

All the best to you!

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