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phd_angel

Bribery of Refs and Players

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Are there any instances of bribery or corruption in FM, involving refs, players and/or boards?...

It would be interesting to have some "bribery" options in FM. (As there are in the sister-game Motorsport Manager).

I think this would only be quite realistic, and perhaps even exciting... (Think of lower-league Italian clubs that are often punished for being involved in administration scandals...).

Edited by phd_angel

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No and it has been often said by SI that it will not ever be part of the game, regardless of whether it happens in real life or not.

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14 minutes ago, FrazT said:

No and it has been often said by SI that it will not ever be part of the game, regardless of whether it happens in real life or not.

Is there any explanation why not bribery?   SI has included cheating options in Motorsports Manager.

PS: I believe the claims for no bribery in FM may have to do with licensing/business issues. Motorsports teams are all fictional, whereas FM simulates real clubs and people...

Edited by phd_angel
PS added

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The Sports Interactive (SI) staff who post on this forum have indicated on numerous occasions over a period of many years that issues in the game around illegalities ,criminal behaviour and any others that may cause legal issues will not be included

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2 minutes ago, FrazT said:

The Sports Interactive (SI) staff who post on this forum have indicated on numerous occasions over a period of many years that issues in the game around illegalities ,criminal behaviour and any others that may cause legal issues will not be included

Yes, that's what I guessed. Not very realistic, but understandable...

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44 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

Is there any explanation why not bribery?   SI has included cheating options in Motorsports Manager.

PS: I believe the claims for no bribery in FM may have to do with licensing/business issues. Motorsports teams are all fictional, whereas FM simulates real clubs and people...

Si don't have anything to do with motorsport manager apart from publisher which is Sega

Edited by Spedding

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Just use the in game editor to cheat your way to wins.

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9 ore fa, phd_angel ha scritto:

I think this would only be quite realistic, and perhaps even exciting... (Think of lower-league Italian clubs that are often punished for being involved in administration scandals...).

Just for the sake of information, administration "scandals" have nothing to do with briberies, they're just bad club management.

And nothing against you, but I hope nothing of you suggested will ever be included in the game. In my opinion there's nothing exciting on playing a game knowing the game itself could be rigged.

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You'd need bribery to be able to do the Fergie challenge properly.

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Realistically it would not be possible to introduce any bribery or corruption into the game until every player, member of staff and official in the game was a newgen. Anyway, as @Federico said there's no point in playing the game if it can be rigged.

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On 29/06/2019 at 04:59, phd_angel said:

Is there any explanation why not bribery?   SI has included cheating options in Motorsports Manager.

PS: I believe the claims for no bribery in FM may have to do with licensing/business issues. Motorsports teams are all fictional, whereas FM simulates real clubs and people...

Playsport Games make Motorsport Manager, not Sports Interactive. SI have nothing to do with MM apart from appearing on some advertising boards at the circuits though I'm sure that's down to Sega publishing both games.

As for bribery and corruption in Football Manager... this isn't Ultimate Soccer Manager. Just no.

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i complained to the press once that the refs must have got money from the other team... I got fined.

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If players start loosing in their saves because their game opponents are corrupt, they'll just quit the game. Even honest mistakes --- imagine you loosing the Champions League final, hard earned with your small team, because the referee f***ed up. Your neighboors could suddenly see a computer flying out of a window. What a sight right...

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I mean this idea would be terrible. Even if it was implemented, it would have to come with a "No bribe" option before starting the game which pretty much 99% of people would tick. Why would you want bribes anyways? Do you want to lose to a bribe? Bribe your way to victory? Bribing is something that shouldn't be anywhere near football and it's sad that it is, why on earth would you want it in this game?! :herman:

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Arguments against bribing can be leveled against violent red cards, not to mention board interventions, players' emotionalism, and even injuries.

I understand that business and legal criteria often drive decisions that developers need to make to develop the game. (And I just find it funny how random gamers may try to justify their subjective preferences...)

But if you say that you want a *realistic* game, then you can't pick and choose reality as you please. You have to walk the talk. Otherwise, call it artificial simulation that makes consumers feel good...

 

:Bowen:

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1 hour ago, phd_angel said:

Arguments against bribing can be leveled against violent red cards, not to mention board interventions, players' emotionalism, and even injuries.

I understand that business and legal criteria often drive decisions that developers need to make to develop the game. (And I just find it funny how random gamers may try to justify their subjective preferences...)

But if you say that you want a *realistic* game, then you can't pick and choose reality as you please. You have to walk the talk. Otherwise, call it artificial simulation that makes consumers feel good...

None of those examples are actually illegal though.

Walking the talk is fine, until you get sued. 

There have been examples of players under long-term bans for serious breaches (seasons long bans) being under the same restrictions in game, but actually setting it up so that, during your save, Player A gets banned for match-fixing opens up a whole new worlds of liabilities for SI.

The game really is ultra-realistic until you press the continue button for the first time. As soon as you have done that you are in a fantasy universe. That's why you hear of players with a 38 yr old Ronaldo signing for Walsall!

Edited by Snorks

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Leaving aside the legal issues, I'm not sure what it's supposed to add to the game, in terms of your skill as a player.  I mean, what's supposed to happen?  

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Considering FM's pretence that the human player is just slotting into a world with all the other things an AI can also do this would mean hypothetically it would be included for human and AI.

It wouldn't make the improvement of the game any easier over time because you could just upload your save to SI and they would be like "yeah 6 of your players/the ref have been bribed for this game, tough luck"

- - -

Aside from that, the level of AI needed to actually, effectively implement such a process doesn't exist. It would all boil down to arbitrary instance by instance decisions, there would have to be a cooldown because otherwise you could just pay your way to success. There has to be a dud level of getting caught, there needs to be some kind of facilitation etc. 

Once you start identifying which managers are open to being bribed, or which owners are willing to participate in bribery it quickly becomes a mess. However, by making a game you literally get to cherry pick the features and aspects you want. If we were still in the 90's there likely would be a lot more things included that wouldn't be today. That seems to be where most of the other games that included things like this originated. 

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11 hours ago, phd_angel said:

Arguments against bribing can be leveled against violent red cards, not to mention board interventions, players' emotionalism, and even injuries.

I understand that business and legal criteria often drive decisions that developers need to make to develop the game. (And I just find it funny how random gamers may try to justify their subjective preferences...)

But if you say that you want a *realistic* game, then you can't pick and choose reality as you please. You have to walk the talk. Otherwise, call it artificial simulation that makes consumers feel good...

 

:Bowen:

So why not take it further and introduce cancer, fatal accidents, and rape scandals? 

If you want every facet of real life introduced into a game then I have a suggestion, become a football manager in real life :lol:

As for bribing, call me crazy but I think corruption is far more destructive to the game than a violent red card or an injury. But I do severely dislike board interventions ;)

Bribing would frankly be a terrible mechanic. There would be no satisfaction from coming from a win because you bribed an official, and it would be endlessly frustrating to lose to a bribe. Plus it would introduce a whole new aspect to the game that would have to be coded into everything, players would come with bribing stats, officials too, managers, likeliness to be found out, punishments for bribing etc... probably months of work to introduce something worthless that's not even fun! So even if you wanna draw analogies with other things "unhealthy" for the game, there's always that to fall back on!

Of all the things SI could work on to improve the game, you suggest bribing and then compare it to injuries :idiot:

Edited by FMExperiment

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I don't want to be the bearer of bad news or disrupt the debate, but I would refer everyone to post #2- it is not going to happen.

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