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Hi everyone,so after getting promoted to the top division in Spain I thought I would change from my normal 4-3-3 formation to a more solid 4-4-2 just to try and be a bit more defensive basically 2 banks of 4 with 2 strikers one coming deep to make a extra body in midfield.

First game of the season did really well won 2-0 but the last 6 have been all defeats and just wondered if anyone can give any advice.

Im thinking that the left side is to open could this be a problem?

my last 6 games have been close im not getting battered but not putting chances away and cant keep clean sheets is a concern.

Any help would be great.

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Any advice as I played a few games last night and I now have conceded 29 goals in 11 games 

i have tried setting both fullbacks on defend but nothing is working really struggling 

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12 hours ago, Ciderarmy said:

change from my normal 4-3-3 formation to a more solid 4-4-2 just to try and be a bit more defensive basically 2 banks of 4 with 2 strikers one coming deep to make a extra body in midfield

For a "solid 442" I was expecting a lower risk, deeper, narrow defensive setup but your on balanced and higher dline?

What was your 433 like if this is more solid? AML/AMR on support will drop and help more defensively or could of just pulled them back to ML/MR. Instead you pushed one more forward and dropped one, that's not really being more solid.

Roles+duties dont look bad but if you have only 8 outfield players behind the ball, you need them to be good defensively especially against better teams who use 3 man midfield. If not controlling space in the middle with your formation then ideally compressing space either by being deep or very aggressive but what is your team good at defensively?  Does your formation and defensive plan fit that strength?

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hey thanks for the advice this was the 4-3-3 I have been using for the last 2 seasons but just felt defensive wise it wouldent be strong enough in this divison as were really weak all over the park we even let in 51 goals in our promotion season and I haven't had any money to improve the squad

Ill take your advice and have a re think on my 4-4-2

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Posted (edited)

Realistically, for your first season in La Liga, you are going to be up against it and should be aiming to just avoid relegation. You should expect to lose a lot of games, any points you gain against the established sides are a bonus. The aim has to be to gain your points against your fellow strugglers. There is likely to be a massive ability gap which is going to take time to close which is why I feel that the tactics you have posted aren't going to help you in your battle for survival.

First up, The 4-4-2

- I don't like the F9 and AF partnership. False 9 is creating space by dropping off the front that the AF can't use as he is consistently in a more advanced position. The movement of the F9 creates space for players running from deeper positions.

- Having a wingback in a system without a DM is very risky in my book.

- The BBM and DLP combination is also quite risky. I feel you need to be a bit more conservative in the roles you choose to have in your central midfield given how much defensive responsibility they have. You are leaving yourself vulnerable to being counter-attacked as the only player you have hanging back is the DLP(D). He can't be expected to cover for both the onrushing wingback and box-to-box midfielder that is too much and he will get overloaded.

- Your left flank partnership isn't going to function very well. Your winger is going to have to do all the attacking by himself with very little support from behind.

- I don't know why you have selected the shorter passing TI here. The formation doesn't suit it given how spread the players are and the inherent gaps between the forward, midfield and defensive lines. Neither does it suit the roles you have selected. The Wingback (Attack), Winger (Attack), Deep Lying Playmaker (Defend), Box-to-Box Midfielder (Support) and Advanced Forward (Attack) aren't roles that I would choose if I had tippy tappy football in mind. They are roles suited to rapid transitions and a more direct passing style. 

- Again, why try to play it out of defence? The majority of teams in the division look at you as minnows which means they are going to likely play more attacking mentalities against you. As a result, they are going to press you harder and higher up the pitch. Therefore is it really wise to have your defenders faffing about with the ball in those circumstances and to risk losing possession in dangerous areas?  

- I can understand why you might want to play at a higher tempo but are your players good enough to do that?

- What is the reason for attacking narrower?

- You have also selected to Counter Press but how does that square with trying to establish two solid banks of 4?

The 4-3-3

- Again with the short passing. Players seem to really like this instruction in this formation and I really can't understand why as in my view it really isn't suited to it. Look at the gaps between the players on the flanks and in the front 3 how are they supposed to link up easily with short passes when they are miles away from each other? I just don't get why you would want to restrict your passing options in this way. Just because you leave the passing on standard doesn't mean you won't see short range passes, it just gives the players more options.

- I don't like the Anchor Man in this system. The reason is based on what you are expecting him to do. In this sort of system with your fullbacks tasked with getting forward his job is to provide cover and to buy time for them to recover their defensive positions should you lose the ball high up the pitch. Being an Anchor Man he is 'anchored' in his position. That means he can't provide this sort of cover by shifting over to the flanks. Instead, I would choose a role which is more mobile.

I think you need to really think about what it is you want and focus on that as both the systems you posted seem to be a bit of a mish-mash of different ideas which don't make a coherent whole. If you want to play possession-based football you need to build everything around that. The following factors all need to be considered when deciding to pick a particular style of play:

1) The attribute profile of your players

There is no point trying to attack playing possession football with a team whose players are terrible off the ball and have a poor first touch.

2) Formation

How can you consistently build attacks using short passing when the players are miles apart from each other.

3) Roles and duties

You need to play roles which play to the strengths of the style and select duties which suit. If I wanted to play a quick direct style for example then I would be looking at roles such as wingers and deep-lying playmakers. Or say I wanted to play a counter-attacking style then I would want my advanced players on the attack duty. What you wouldn't want is to end up in a situation where you are playing an AF and not being able to supply the kind of service they need (balls fed early over the top for them to run onto). 

4) Mentality

5) Team Instructions and Player Instructions

These should be considered the final refinements on the style you have already created. If you are having to use a lot of these then the fundamental base tactic isn't right. Also, I wouldn't treat these as the be all and end all of what you observe. The previous 4 points are far more important in getting your team to play the way you want. For e.g., I could select the Play Out of Defence TI but I'm unlikely to see my team doing that consistently unless I have the players capable of doing that. The midfielders need to 'show' for the ball which is where points 2, 3 & 4 come into play. If everyone is running far ahead of the ball as soon as it arrives at the feet of my central defenders then how exactly are they supposed to play it out from the back.

Hopefully, I have given you something to think about as you seek to improve your tactic

All the best

Edited by pheelf

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16 hours ago, Ciderarmy said:

Screenshot (152).png

This tactic doesn't look bad in general. The reason you've been conceding so many goals is most likely counter-press and/or higher DL (your team is probably not good enough). So I would suggest removing counter-press first. If after that you still concede a lot, them drop DL to standard and LOE to lower (and you can also tell the 4 midfielders to mark tighter). The RB could be changed from WB on attack to FB on attack (again because your players are probably not good enough for a more adventurous setup, plus you have no DM as a direct screen for your back line).

Attacking-wise, I would for now make just 2 small tweaks: add overlap left and change attacking width back to standard (default).

F9 can be told to roam from position, and IWsu to sit narrower.

Also make sure you have suitable players for all these roles.

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