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sam_mufc

Help recreating Sean Dyche’s 442

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Posted (edited)

Hi, I’m trying to recreate the solid 442 that got Burnley into Europe and 7th place but I’m finding it difficult. I just can’t keep a clean sheet even though I’m trying to play very compact and defensively. 

I am playing as Burnley by the way

Any ideas on how to recreate it? 

Edited by sam_mufc

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Playing very compact and defensively doesn't mean you won't concede, in fact you are more vulnerable even as you're letting the opponent attack more.

Can you post the tactic?  Also how are you willing to get the ball? In other words,when do you want/expect the opponent's attack to fail? How are you also willing to play when you get the ball? 

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Posted (edited)

KzGFdYg.pngd4oVaMQ.png

First is for games i hope to get something from and second is for games against the top 6.

I tried to play more direct but we'd just give the ball away ever time so i had to try to play shorter passes.

Also i was hoping to defend by playing deep, stoping them playing through me by forcing them to cross and hoping my defenders would be tight and clear it.

Then i wanted my strikers to hold up  the ball, maybe lay it off to my wingers and go from there....

It's not working out that way though haha

Any help much appreciated  

Edited by sam_mufc

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I've found it difficult to play a Low Block this season, in part because it seems that shots from outside the box and set pieces are OP this year, although we do cause of a lot of them. Dyche essentially operates in a Simeone style low block, although they press considerably less. This means that they stay low and towards the goal. You will need centerbacks with good heading and a reliable shotstopper otherwise you are just letting the opposition march down the field. As we saw with Burnley this season, to be successful you will need to make sure your goalkeeper is capable of stopping a shot from outside the box, as when they had Joe Hart earlier in the season they struggled.

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Yeah I think there is a good video on bustthenet about the Burnley low block

i do think that aiming for that very low block for an entire game is borderline suicide so I would only use it situationally.

Id probably start off in a medium block, either using a balanced mentality or pushing up the defence, then dropping down a bit if you get towards the end of the match.

I also prefer to use pressing forwards rather than target man, but that’s just me

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I love Dyche's old-school English style, and I think you are on the right track with this replication. What you need to know is that when you play on a low-risk mentality (e.g. cautious), a lower DL can be a liability because you are inviting too much pressure in and around your penalty area. So if you want to recreate the Burnley style by using Cautious mentality, I would suggest moving DL up a notch (to standard). In combination with lower LOE, it will give you the vertical compactness that is characteristic of Dyche's 442 system.

However, I would personally go with Balanced mentality in order to facilitate faster attacking transitions. While the DL and LOE would remain same - standard and lower, respectively - I would reduce pressing by a notch (to less urgent). Tighter marking and Get stuck in would remain activated. In possession, higher tempo is a must IMO.

In terms of roles and duties, I think you assigned the right roles to the strikers, but wrong duties. In my system, Barnes would be PF on support, and Wood TM on attack.

Anyway, if I looked to recreate Dyche's average tactic using your preferred starting 11, this is what I would go with:

PFsu      TMat

 

Wat      CMde      DLPsu      IWsu

 

FBsu      NCBco    CDde     FBsu

SKde

Balanced mentality

- slightly more direct passing, higher tempo, overlap left, hit early crosses, be more disciplined, play for set pieces (optionally - narrower width)

- counter, regroup

- standard DL, lower LOE, less urgent pressing, use tighter marking, get stuck in, defend narrower

Player instructions:

- STL/PFsu - Barnes - roam from position

- STR/Wood - move into channels, close down more

- MR/IWsu - Gudmundsson - get further forward, take more risks

That would be my starting point before I see if some tweaking might be needed.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi

Below is the 2nd of the 2 tactics you posted.  I've highlighted some things to consider.

Untitled.thumb.png.29644c29a0e181530565e93d30b602fc.png

You use 2 strikers with the more attacking one having an attack duty.  The attack duty means that he as an individual will have an attack mentality and take up positions high against the oppo central defenders.  Defensively as his job is a Pressing Fwd, he will harass defenders and press them.  However you have asked your fwd line to have a much lower line of engagement.  I believe that's a conflict.

Similarly your fullbacks are on support.  They will support attacks.  But defensively you want them to drop back, and keep dropping back, to a much lower defensive line.  They have too much ground to cover.  If you want defenders to play with a really deep line then I think they should have a defend duty.  They need to be disciplined and in position.  You can not risk any gaps playing very deep.  So again I believe this is a conflict in your set up.

I could also have highlighted that you are attacking narrow but have selected a winger role.  That's a role that wants to beat players on the outside, hug the line and cross from wide areas.  Personally the more narrow I play then I become inclined to change that role to something like a wide midfielder.

Hope these things help, good luck.

Edited by Robson 07

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Posted (edited)

4-4-2 is a great option. My favorite for small teams. And honestly, it's great in mega teams as well. Keep the banks of 4 neat (auto or support for more fluidity for all roles with the option, forget play makers and other frilly roles. Straight CM). And let the striker duo play with creative freedom. Everybody else needs to be cautious unless you have special players. But keep the tempo high!

 I always play high d line. Just Bc you are playing high d line doesn't mean your tactic is attacking, but imo that it is aggressive. I never cared who my minnow squad played against. The idea was to give them hell for 90 mins. Even mbappe can miss a 1v1 if he breaches the offside trap. Your gk has more time to put the striker off, than in low d line defensive tactics. IMO!

O, and don't be afraid to go 4-2-4 style if need be. You have to see it in action, but the bank of 4 with 2 disciplined MCs in front of them is very solid. Let the mentality you set during the match dictate how the players transition.

And at the lower end of the league....you gotta be aggressive. IMO!

Edited by Warrenwwr

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Posted (edited)

Hi, thanks for the comments guys. 

I have started numerous saves with Burnley, trying different tactics to recreate the 442 that helped them get into Europe.

But i can't seem to find a winning formula.

This is what i am currently trying

.437360721_ScreenShot2019-06-01at03_00_11.thumb.png.87e515a4a99830ab4f6eb3fff88513ea.png

I use the one above when it is a game i hope to pick up points in, when i am either the better team or a similar standard 

2094698974_ScreenShot2019-06-01at03_00_23.thumb.png.4aa6d2a94bd252441f9758a8fef721fa.png

I use this one when i am against a top 6 team or away against a decent team or when i want to try to kill the game and not get beat.

 

I am usually unsure of how to set my opposition instructions too. 

Edited by sam_mufc

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Sorry to say that, but I fear that with these 2 tactics you are now even further from how Burnley play. And even apart from a Dyche's style replication, neither of these tactics looks particularly solid IMHO. 

Btw, prevent short GKD makes no sense in this kind of system.

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My new tactics have been most successful in keeping clean sheets and being solid haha. 

I use prevent short goal kicks because it makes them kick long and my CB will usually win the header and i will retain possession 

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9 minutes ago, sam_mufc said:

My new tactics have been most successful in keeping clean sheets and being solid haha. 

I use prevent short goal kicks because it makes them kick long and my CB will usually win the header and i will retain possession 

Great. But why then did you say this: 

 

10 hours ago, sam_mufc said:

I have started numerous saves with Burnley, trying different tactics to recreate the 442 that helped them get into Europe.

But i can't seem to find a winning formula

?

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Because i'm still not happy with the results im getting. But the last tactic i put up has been my most successful for keeping clean sheets.

But i am not keeping as many as i would like to

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