Help my wingers in 4-2-3-1

[sorret]

Hello!
My first post and topic on this site.

I've been a long-time fan of FM and have started playing it again since a few years back ('16) but not quite wrapped my head around how the tactics work. Which is sad, since I'm stubborn. Been browsing around on here all day to try and figure out my main issues - roles, TI's et cetera.

I'm playing with Lyon, on my second season. Trying to get my 4-2-3-1 working and this is what I've come up with, along with the players on each role.

SK (S) - Anthony Lopes, Anthony Racioppi

FB (S) - Kenny Tete, Leo Dubois
BPD (D) - Jason Denayer, Oumar Solet
CB (D) - Eliaquim Mangala, Marcelo
WB (S) - Theo Hernandez (Loan), Marcal

CM (S) - Houssem Aouar, Maxence Caqueret, Cheikh Diop
PI - Take more risks
CM (D) - Lucas Tousart, Morgan Schneiderlin (Loan)
PI - Take fewer risks, tackle harder

W (S) - Bertrand Traoré, Maxwel Cornet, Breel Embolo (when needed)
PI - Close down more
AP (S) - Nabil Fekir, Aouar (when needed), Sofian Augarreau
PI - Close down more, roam from position
IF (A) - Memphis Depay, Martin Terrier
PI - Close down more

DLF (A) - Moussa Dembele, Amine Gouiri, Breel Embolo
PI - Close down more

Mentality: Positive
In possession: Short passes, build out of defence, low crosses, overlap to the left
In transition: Distribute to centrebacks, counter, counter-press
Out of possession: Higher DL, More urgent pressing, Use offside trap

So far so good. 4 wins out of 5 games (2-0, 2-0, 5-1 and 4-0) and one loss in CL, away against Atletico Madrid (1-2). I removed "Counter-press" and changed the mentality to "Balanced" against Atletico.
However, my wingers (mainly Depay and Traoré) aren't playing their best games. The best I've managed to get out of Depay is a 7,2 rating and a 7,2 out of Traoré as well. I mean, I'm happy that we're winning games but I feel like I can press some more out of them, considering the talent and potential both of them possesses - I just don't know how!
I'd gladly accept any sort of help or tips from anyone. :-) I can of course contribute with screenshots if that's more helpful. Sorry for the long post.

Thank you!

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, sorret said:

FB (S) - Kenny Tete, Leo Dubois
BPD (D) - Jason Denayer, Oumar Solet
CB (D) - Eliaquim Mangala, Marcelo
WB (S) - Theo Hernandez (Loan), Marcal

CM (S) - Houssem Aouar, Maxence Caqueret, Cheikh Diop
PI - Take more risks
CM (D) - Lucas Tousart, Morgan Schneiderlin (Loan)
PI - Take fewer risks, tackle harder

W (S) - Bertrand Traoré, Maxwel Cornet, Breel Embolo (when needed)
PI - Close down more
AP (S) - Nabil Fekir, Aouar (when needed), Sofian Augarreau
PI - Close down more, roam from position
IF (A) - Memphis Depay, Martin Terrier
PI - Close down more

Which ones are on the left side, and which ones on the right? FB(s) and WB(s) - who is LB and who is RB? The same question for IF(a) and W(s), as well as CM(s) and CM(d)?

[sorret]

2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Which ones are on the left side, and which ones on the right? FB(s) and WB(s) - who is LB and who is RB? The same question for IF(a) and W(s), as well as CM(s) and CM(d)?

Oh! Of course, sorry. My bad. I went from right to left, so:

RFB (S) - Kenny Tete, Leo Dubois
BPD (D) - Jason Denayer, Oumar Solet
CB (D) - Eliaquim Mangala, Marcelo
LWB (S) - Theo Hernandez (Loan), Marcal

RCM (S) - Houssem Aouar, Maxence Caqueret, Cheikh Diop
PI - Take more risks
LCM (D) - Lucas Tousart, Morgan Schneiderlin (Loan)
PI - Take fewer risks, tackle harder

RW (S) - Bertrand Traoré, Maxwel Cornet, Breel Embolo (when needed)
PI - Close down more
AP (S) - Nabil Fekir, Aouar (when needed), Sofian Augarreau
PI - Close down more, roam from position
LIF (A) - Memphis Depay, Martin Terrier
PI - Close down more

[Experienced Defender]

Before I comment on the tactic, I just want to tell you this: if you are pleased with results and how your tactic generally works, do not make changes only for the sake of one or two players, because you may risk ruining the entire tactic and hence your team overall performances. I said this in relation to this:

 

16 hours ago, sorret said:

So far so good. 4 wins out of 5 games (2-0, 2-0, 5-1 and 4-0) and one loss in CL, away against Atletico Madrid (1-2)... However, my wingers (mainly Depay and Traoré) aren't playing their best games. The best I've managed to get out of Depay is a 7,2 rating and a 7,2 out of Traoré as well. I mean, I'm happy that we're winning games but I feel like I can press some more out of them, considering the talent and potential both of them possesses

 

Now, let's see the tactic. So, this is what your tactic looks like:

DLFat

IFat              APsu              Wsu

CMde     CMsu

WBsu     CDde    BPDde     FBsu

SKsu

Positive mentality

- Short passes, build out of defence, low crosses, overlap to the left
- Distribute to centrebacks, counter, counter-press
-  Higher DL, More urgent pressing, Use offside trap

Basically, these team instructions are okay, except for more urgent pressing. When you play on a high-risk mentality (like Positive or higher) plus higher DL, there is no need to increase team pressing and thus risk disrupting defensive shape, especially when you use a top-heavy formation (such as 4231) and with no DM. On higher mentalities the level of pressing is already higher than on lower ones, and you already have counter-press, which is quite enough.  Instead of more urgent pressing, I would suggest adding the Prevent short GK distribution, which would absolutely make sense with 4 players up front.

In possession, I guess you opted for low crosses because you have fast players up front, right? But the problem may be that in most cases you will play against teams weaker than yours, who will look to defend deep and pack the box, so there will be little space for these low crosses to be successful. Low crosses make more sense when you play a sort of counter-attacking football with fast forwards who can get quickly into space behind opposition defenses. Of course, you can persist with low crosses if you want, but my personal preference would be either whipped or mixed (default).

And of course, there are optional in-possession instructions that you may occasionally use, depending on what you see happening on the pitch and/or what exactly you want to achieve or to adapt to the opposition way of playing/defending (e.g. higher tempo, work ball into box, be more expressive). But as you said your tactic has worked well so far, maybe there will not be a need to use (any of) these instructions.

In transition, everything is okay. The only thing I would add is distribute to fullbacks (along with CBs), so that the keeper has more options to pick from (which is safer, after all).

Let's now take a look at roles and duties. The setup is well-balanced in terms of duties (taking the Overlap left into account as well), but could be more inventive when it comes to the selection of roles. But then again - if your tactic works well for you, why would you want to make changes at all? I mean, I can tell you what changes (adjustments) I would consider in terms of roles if you want me to, but the question is why would you do that at this point?

[z464]

On 23/05/2019 at 16:46, sorret said:

Oh! Of course, sorry. My bad. I went from right to left, so:

RFB (S) - Kenny Tete, Leo Dubois
BPD (D) - Jason Denayer, Oumar Solet
CB (D) - Eliaquim Mangala, Marcelo
LWB (S) - Theo Hernandez (Loan), Marcal

RCM (S) - Houssem Aouar, Maxence Caqueret, Cheikh Diop
PI - Take more risks
LCM (D) - Lucas Tousart, Morgan Schneiderlin (Loan)
PI - Take fewer risks, tackle harder

RW (S) - Bertrand Traoré, Maxwel Cornet, Breel Embolo (when needed)
PI - Close down more
AP (S) - Nabil Fekir, Aouar (when needed), Sofian Augarreau
PI - Close down more, roam from position
LIF (A) - Memphis Depay, Martin Terrier
PI - Close down more

Very sample 4231 . 

Just focus on the PI and TI , everything should be fine . 

[herne79]

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 14:39, Experienced Defender said:

Before I comment on the tactic, I just want to tell you this: if you are pleased with results and how your tactic generally works, do not make changes only for the sake of one or two players, because you may risk ruining the entire tactic and hence your team overall performances.