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nameless

How broken is the transfer system?

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Hello there,

I skipped the last two games but here I'm with FM19. Conisdering myself an FM veteran was probably my biggest mistake, because it seems that the game has its own rules about the transfers which I don't quite understand...so long story short: 

1. Playing with Juventus, marking Federico Chiesa as my top transfer target in the early 2019, getting all those flattering comments during the season, watching his games etc.

2. End of the 18/19 season and just a week after that he gets transfer listed by request..Ok great! He is valued 62m, my scout says Fiorentina would want 126m and...boom in the offer the asking price is 64m! 

3. I gave those 64mils immediately and guess what - they negotiated for 135m??? Then I offered 80m and still got counter offered for 135m, I offered 80m again and got counter offered....infinite loop for about 2 weeks, every single day. Finally I got bored and just rejected their offer. Well, guess what...4 days later Liverpool signed Chiesa for 60mils...?!

So, am I missing something here? Do they find me as a rival and that's why they rejected my offers and sold him two times cheaper to another team or it's just some kind of bug?

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6 minutes ago, nameless said:

So, am I missing something here? Do they find me as a rival and that's why they rejected my offers and sold him two times cheaper to another team

Probably this. Juventus and Fiorentina are fierce rivals (specifically, Fiorentina's hatred of Juve is stronger than vice versa), so you should expect to pay more for their players. For the same transfer fee, I'd imagine the Viola would rather let Chiesa leave Serie A than strengthen a rival.

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Well, I'm still not quite convinced that any rivalry is worth 20m...I would understand if we offered the same price or they got him for 4-5m less but come on - 20m less when your whole transfer budget for the season is 40m?

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I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure in game they are very fierce rivals. So couple that with usual jot wanting to strengthen a team in the same league, it doesn't surprise me. You probably would have been able to sign him at a further inflated price, which is what I'd have expected. 

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@nameless  Did they not budge from 135m at all?  What did they come down to?

If they did not budge then I can understand your frustration at being asked to pay more than double the transfer listed price (and more than double what he eventually sold for).  It seems a bit excessive to me, even for a fierce rival.  If you have a save game from just before negotiations began it might be worthwhile letting SI take a look at it in the bugs forum.

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It could also be a case that Fiorentina promised that they'd accept a bid of x for him. Then when you met it and they rejected, he got even more unhappy and they had not choice but to let him leave for a lot less...

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Could £135m have been his release clause? The AI teams often negotiate to that when they don't want to sell.

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On the bright side, you can offer to buy players from other countries. Considering you wouldn't be rivals, they wouldn't inflate their prices. 

You could try to buy Chiesa next season from Liverpool. You may get him for a lot less than what you were offering. 

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So, in light of the above comments, the answer to the question in the thread title is 'not very'.

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OK, guys, I replayed the whole transfer window and sadly this seems like a bug. Chiesa gets transfer listed and the asking price is 64m, I offer it and get counter-offered for 129m. Every single day, for about a month, we have this ridiculous negotiation and every time I increase the offer until it gets to 126m...it still gets rejected. If I offer 129m, then it's ok. The moment I reject it, he gets transferred to some English team for 60 mils... 

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10 minutes ago, nameless said:

OK, guys, I replayed the whole transfer window and sadly this seems like a bug. Chiesa gets transfer listed and the asking price is 64m, I offer it and get counter-offered for 129m. Every single day, for about a month, we have this ridiculous negotiation and every time I increase the offer until it gets to 126m...it still gets rejected. If I offer 129m, then it's ok. The moment I reject it, he gets transferred to some English team for 60 mils... 

And you're still Juventus?  Did you read anything people have posted?  The asking price is 64m, but they're going to want the Earth to sell to a bitter rival.  They don't have such hang-ups about a team they're unlikely to ever face.

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19 minutes ago, forameuss said:

And you're still Juventus?  Did you read anything people have posted?  The asking price is 64m, but they're going to want the Earth to sell to a bitter rival.  They don't have such hang-ups about a team they're unlikely to ever face.

And have you read my post?

On 17/05/2019 at 14:59, nameless said:

Well, I'm still not quite convinced that any rivalry is worth 20m...I would understand if we offered the same price or they got him for 4-5m less but come on - 20m less when your whole transfer budget for the season is 40m?

In my last save the sum pumped up to 60+mils in difference - 60m from Arsenal vs 125m from me. Yeah, right - they are likely to refuse an offer 3 times their transfer budget just not to sale the guy to their rival. They can buy 3 or 4 quality players with those money and try to close the gap between our teams, but no, let's just get rid of the player for half the money for the sole purpose of screwing over Juventus. Sorry, there is 0 logic here.

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1
7 minutes ago, Dalglish said:

IRL Despite the rivalry Juventus and Fiorentina continue to do transfer business with each other. Since the Roberto Baggio sale, there's been plenty who have moved from one to the other and even been co-owned (Chiellini). They may be fierce rivals on the pitch, but business is business.

There's no no way they would turn down 126 million from a rival for someone you have listed for 64 million.

  

100%.

They need to fix what teams would financially accept and not include ridiculous factors to the asking price based on selling to a rival or for wonderkids.

This applies also to teams who want £20 million for their wonderkid when their full squad, stadium and training ground is worth about £1 million! 

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Posted (edited)

Can you test if this is the same if you would be manager of any other Italian club? I'd be interested to know. 

 

I understand rivalry may be an issue with some transfers but not for such a huge difference. Football clubs are businesses and selling for 60 would be a bad business decision if you could have more than double that. 

Edited by fmonit

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It is basic poor management of the situation. When they inflate you should flat out refuse to do business with them and make  lot of noise about it. The club will eventually give in due to pressure and sell him for a realistic price.

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So the club doesn't want to sell for 60m unless the human manager "pays the earth", so the human manager does so by offering 2x and the offer is still not accepted.

Then the AI is happy to sell to another club for 60m and miss another 60m just because of "being a rival". I wonder what the board or whomever deals with the transfers in this club was thinking when they made this decision.

 

"Ah, our asking price was met by this club, time to sell this player and make some money!"

"But sir, why don't we accept the offer of club X who offered double and being twice as rich?"

"Who cares about money nowadays? AWAY WITH THEIR FILTHY RIVAL MONEY!"

 

That sounds really unrealistic and I've encountered this issue several times when making offers to the AI. The AI doesn't want to sell to me for more than double the price but is happy to sell for any other club (while we are not rivals and the club they sell for may be a rival). Seems to be something that is based on a human manager making an offer.

21 horas atrás, Legendary Manager disse:

It is basic poor management of the situation. When they inflate you should flat out refuse to do business with them and make  lot of noise about it. The club will eventually give in due to pressure and sell him for a realistic price.

They don't want to sell even for an unrealistic price, that's the issue here. Why would the club pass away on this crazy offer for more money by accepting a much lesser deal instead?

 

Needless to say this isn't limited to player transfers because it also happens to player wages. I've seen players a lot of times demanding very high wages from me and then even when these demands are met they go for a lesser club that is not from their home nation for much lesser wages.

 

Em 21/05/2019 em 05:05, forameuss disse:

But when you're in game, you have to look at it differently.

Even if as you say it's "working fine" in the game, there needs to be better limiters for this kind of thing. If an offer is of a high value such as 60m and there is an offer that is 50% higher or 100% higher, this extra value should be more than enough to surpass an additional "sell to a rival" added price, otherwise you end up with unrealistic situations such as this one.

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I'm playing as Spurs. Lazio transfer listed Milinkovic-Savic for £47m. I offer it all up front. They now want £56m. Why would Lazio view me as a rival?

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3 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

I'm playing as Spurs. Lazio transfer listed Milinkovic-Savic for £47m. I offer it all up front. They now want £56m. Why would Lazio view me as a rival?

Maybe they just want more out of you. What was your negotiation stance after this? Who else went in for him? How did this end?

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3 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

I'm playing as Spurs. Lazio transfer listed Milinkovic-Savic for £47m. I offer it all up front. They now want £56m. Why would Lazio view me as a rival?

This can happen if there is more than one team interested and a small bidding war will give a better price for the selling price.  Under these conditions, the asking price is just the first part of the negotiations

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, FrazT said:

This can happen if there is more than one team interested and a small bidding war will give a better price for the selling price.  Under these conditions, the asking price is just the first part of the negotiations

There was no "wanted" icon, no one else came in and I had a free run at him. They just wanted a lot more than the asking price.

Edited by Tiger666

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15 hours ago, FrazT said:

This can happen if there is more than one team interested and a small bidding war will give a better price for the selling price.  Under these conditions, the asking price is just the first part of the negotiations

Exactly and as a human manager I do it. If I get multiple offers for one player, I see this as multiple attempts to get the highest fee so he will inevitably go for over the asking price.

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On 22/05/2019 at 15:07, GoldenGoal said:

Even if as you say it's "working fine" in the game, there needs to be better limiters for this kind of thing. If an offer is of a high value such as 60m and there is an offer that is 50% higher or 100% higher, this extra value should be more than enough to surpass an additional "sell to a rival" added price, otherwise you end up with unrealistic situations such as this one.

I'm not really sure I ever did say that.  I'm saying it's logical in the way the game is obviously coded.  It's not particularly realistic, but then most saves are about as realistic after the first few months.  Hence why I've said to raise it as a bug if people feel so strongly about it.  There really isn't much point in solely bitching about it here.  Nothing's going to get done that way, just a massive bun-fight.

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Does transfers from rival clubs happened too much in the game? Arsenal-Spurs, United-City, Liverpool-Everton etc. I know they happen once in a while but this version, seems to occur more frequently than older FM.

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