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OJ403

How to get the best out of wide men?

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First things first, I don't want to share my tactic yet (if at all) as this is not what I want advice/opinions on, I simply want to discuss how people have got the best out of their wide players (either in the midfield or AM stratas).

For context I am managing Napoli in my second season with the club in season six overall in the save. We came 5th last season having been one point clear at the top with 6 games to go. Quite the bottlejob. Over the course of the season we played a 5-3-2 (with a libero) and on occasion a 5-2-3 (with wide players and a lone striker). After the initial "its a libero!" excitement died down and after watching Ajax and De Jong, I decided I could get more from the player in question in a midfield role and that I did not need 3 CBs. So I knew I was going to shift to a 4 at the back shape, with at least one DM. I also noticed our narrowness (even on wider width settings) so I decided we were going to play with wide players in one of the two stratas in order to stretch the play better.

However I'm struggling to get much output from the wide men regardless of role or duty, etc. So I was wondering how other people have gotten success from their wingers, not necessarily by the way of goals and assists, more general contribution to the play and build up, with and without the ball.

As I said at the start, I don't want to talk about my tactic just yet, as it is not what I'm here to discuss, I want to talk about wide players (role/duty/strata/etc.)

Cheers

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1 hour ago, OJ403 said:

I'm struggling to get much output from the wide men regardless of role or duty, etc. So I was wondering how other people have gotten success from their wingers, not necessarily by the way of goals and assists, more general contribution to the play and build up, with and without the ball.

Nice. But then you say:

1 hour ago, OJ403 said:

I don't want to talk about my tactic just yet, as it is not what I'm here to discuss, I want to talk about wide players (role/duty/strata/etc.)

The problem is that without knowing the context - i.e. the tactic as a whole - how is anyone supposed to give you any meaningful advice just by saying things like "play your wide men in this or that role and duty"??? You may assign a player to a role that "ideally" suits him when considered in isolation, but if that role does not fit in with the rest of the system - it's still not going to work.

For example, in my Brighton save - which is a completely different team from your Napoli though - I sometimes play one wide MF as a Winger on support and the other as an IW (or WM) on attack. Sometimes one is IW on support, and the other is a WM on attack. Depends on which players I use in a given match and what I generally want to achieve in a particular situation. But such a combo may prove a distaster for your team, because the difference in quality is obvious (among other factors).

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1 hour ago, OJ403 said:

As I said at the start, I don't want to talk about my tactic just yet, as it is not what I'm here to discuss

You may not think so, but your tactic is precisely what you need to discuss. I've had great success with winger-support, winger-attack, IF-support, IF-attack, AP attack and support. I've never actually played with a wide-targetman or a wide-treq or a raumdeuter, but largely because I've never felt the need to deploy such exotic roles.

As @Experienced Defender suggests, the one thing I'd say is that you might want to stay away from identical roles on both wings (although I've done so without major issues when needs must). I've had tremendous success with an IF on one side and a winger on the other, but it entirely depends on what role and duty the striker has, whether there's an AMC and what he's doing, and what the FB/WB roles are.

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Posted (edited)

Thing is, we can all tell you different combinations of wide players that are working for us but they'll mean nothing without really seeing all of our tactics, so do you really just want us to share our systems? 

I alternate between two formations, complete opposites of one another, both with wide players as key. 

One is 3atb with wing backs as my main providers, which doesn't sound like what you want. 

The other started off as inspired by Ajax in the Champions League but then sort of evolved in to something else when I signed Lautaro Martinez and saw someone's thread here complaining that they could only score goals with a raumdeuter. 

I took some of their principles, loaded up an inside forward, mezzala and attacking full back down the right, play little Thiago Almada at DLF down the middle and have one of either Lautaro or Josef scoring for fun from raumdeuter. The chief provider of assists is probably either the mezzala or the full back with low or whipped crosses.

You'd probably need to turn the raumdeuter in to an inside forward with more focus on cutting it back to get a better interpretation of Neres. 

My problem with this is that the FM match engine for years has been absolutely garbage at having players cross in to the middle once they get in to the six yard box. The amount of times players will shoot from a silly angle with the keeper covering when you've got someone dead free square is infuriating. 

You could have a player with shoot less often, cross more, prefers to pass trait, low creative freedom, 20 vision and decisions and three team mates unmarked square in the box with the keeper anchored at the near post, homeboy gonna shoot. 

In the past the devs have even argued that's realistic. Not entirely convinced on that point personally. 

I'm sure people have gotten success building systems that do rely on cut backs from the byline at close range and I'm clearly exaggerating a little, it will sometimes work as intended, it'll just never quite be optimum because of the AI weight towards shooting. 

 

Edited by Finners

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Swore quite alot opening this.

Knew that people would struggle to understand. This is not is "please help me my tactics bad" post. I can work it out for myself. I do no need nor want people telling me what they think I should do with regards to my tactic.

I'm interested in how people have used wide men to success in their own personal experience. If I asked you about a day out youd had at the zoo cause I was trying to decide whether to go or not and you went "the lions were really nice", then I interrupted you and spoke about a time I saw a wild lion in my garden I'd be being abit of a tit as I'm not finding out relevant information about your experience of said zoo.

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1. Don't be rude, you're essentially here asking for help and people are helping. When several people all respond the same way, keep in mind maybe it's not them in the wrong. 

2. To continue your analogy, the problem is, you've asked us about the zoo but we've got absolutely no idea what sort of animals you're interested in, we've no idea if you're taking your kids, if you want to go on a weekday, how long you'll be staying, if getting a glimpse of the pandas is a big thing for you, if your wife needs wheelchair access or whatever else. 

Like I said, if you just want us to post our own tactics so you can get some inspiration then ask that. The problem is that it sounds like you already have your inspiration and an idea of what to play. You've already picked the Ajax Zoo and you just want to get the best out of your experience. So giving us some idea the context of the rest of your system is the best way to get constructive feedback. 

I mean how do you WANT to use your wide players? As creators or scorers? Do you want full backs giving width or wingers? How much width do you even want? 

If you're going to give so little specifics don't be surprised if people give you largely irrelevant feedback that you can't use. 

You came to the forum for help at the end of the day. If you just want to see tactics with no context, you might as well scan through the countless other threads in here and in the downloads sub just looking at examples. 

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Posted (edited)

I was going to write something here but then saw your rude reply and decided to move on. Why bother and waste my time when you are not even going to be civil with the kind people who are trying to help you. You say that you swear just opening it and do not want to discuss your tactic? You do realize that we cannot really help you with roles without discussing the larger tactical context. I guess you don't want to be helped. Moving on

Edited by crusadertsar

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Tbh lads I think we're above arguing over the internet. My response may have been sarcastic and flippant, but it wasn't rude. Rude would've been being abusive - that I was not, I just pointed out that you'd misinterpreted what I'm after, which I also said I wasn't surprised about. So if anything we're now clear (I think) on the purpose of the discussion, and it was nobody's fault we weren't. If we aren't please ask

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I currently use WM(a)+FB(a) in a 442, IF(s)+FB(a) in a 4231 and IF(a)+FB(a) in a 433.

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11 minutes ago, JWVG said:

I currently use WM(a)+FB(a) in a 442, IF(s)+FB(a) in a 4231 and IF(a)+FB(a) in a 433.

Cheers mate

And how are things going?

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